Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, teatime101 said:

he isn't so much a loving creator as a narcissistic megalomaniac who is content to condemn somebody like your wife (or a Buddha who preached compassion for all living things) to eternal damnation.

That's the Sunday school version of God. Has as much to do with reality as fairies that look like Tinkerbell.

I don't understand why after 552 pages anyone still gives God a human personality, when it's apparent that a being that can create life the universe and everything is obviously not human- ergo doesn't have human emotions and to which humans are of no more importance than bacteria, without which no life would exist on planet earth.

Edited June 13, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[fredwiggy]

41 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Agree with you, one should teach children that God may or may not exist, and that many people believe the one or the other.

I teach that he exists, and is the reason we're here, and did this with my other 5 children, who are believers.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I teach that he exists, and is the reason we're here, and did this with my other 5 children, who are believers.

So are many,

as are many who don't.

And all are convinced they do the right thing.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Sujo said:

There are consequences in this life. Thats all that matters. As for revelations, i suggest a psychiatrist.

 

believe what you like, just dont pester others about it.

Consequences for humans only for those poor or without influential friends or those that riot in the cause of current fancies.

 

WE that believe have been answering the OP. If you don't like that don't come on threads like this. You are like the man that bought a house next to the airport and then complains about the planes.

 

BTW, it's IMO not the believers that have been doing the pestering on this thread.

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

That's the reason of the term "agnostic".

Some day I'm slightly agnostic, just to understand how someone who's agnostic or even atheist may think. I've come to the conclusion that "beliefs" are a part of everyone mind and experience, so it may be worth to believe in something that's worth believing in.

I think all 'rational' atheists are also agnostic in the sense that the reason they are atheist, and lack a belief in theism, is because they understand that they do not know, and that it's unreasonable to think that anyone could possibly know..

 

However, I don't think all agnostics are atheists. There are probably some agnostics who, whilst admitting that they do not know, strive to believe, or at least go through the motions of believing, just in case they discover when they die that there is a God. 

 

This concept is sometimes called 'Pascal's Wager'.

[Walker88]

4 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

He probably is there because he followed a different path than I have chosen. He probably is there because he didn't have any use for God. I said probably, as I'm not the judge but God is. If you have no use for God and turn your back on him, which is the only unpardonable sin, it's your choice and you will pay the price. I didn't make the rules. God did. You may think it's an ignorant statement but God and his followers don't.

Your deity is rather incompetent or just plain evil. According to you, Buddha is in Hell (sic) because he didn't follow the same superstition as you.

 

Maybe if your deity had dropped a few Old Testaments in India around 450BC, Buddha could have given it a read. Of course the book wasn't in print, so getting the book to 'educate' the Buddha about the masochism of your deity (Leviticus is kind of nasty and, inter alia, advocates abortion, Isaac almost got the knife, Lot's wife is now table salt, but I hope she's iodized at least) would have required....what's the word...an OMNIPOTENT deity. Said deity could also have called down to Buddha the way your god calls guys like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson and told him, "Yo, Buddha, In about 500 years I'm going to knock up an Earth girl and though I'm going to be a deadbeat dad, the kid is going to tell you how to stay out of the flames for all eternity and get into my Country Club in the sky".

 

Of course your deity either forgot or couldn't do it, but is so wicked it will hold that against Buddha for all eternity.

 

Silly. Really silly.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Walker88

[fredwiggy]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

Your deity is rather incompetent or just plain evil. According to you, Buddha is in Hell (sic) because he didn't follow the same superstition as you.

 

Maybe if your deity had dropped a few Old Testaments in India around 450BC, Buddha could have given it a read. Of course the book wasn't in print, so getting the book to 'educate' the Buddha about the masochism of your deity (Leviticus is kind of nasty and, inter alia, advocates abortion, Isaac almost got the knife, Lot's wife is now table salt, but I hope she's iodized at least) would have required....what's the word...an OMNIPOTENT deity. Said deity could also have called down to Buddha the way your god calls guys like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson and told him, "Yo, Buddha, In about 500 years I'm going to knock up an Earth girl and though I'm going to be a deadbeat dad, the kid is going to tell you how to stay out of the flames for all eternity and get into my Country Club in the sky".

 

Of course your deity either forgot or couldn't do it, but is so wicked it will hold that against Buddha for all eternity.

 

Silly. Really silly.

Buddha says he was aware there is a God but he didn't have any use for him.

[StreetCowboy]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's the Sunday school version of God. Has as much to do with reality as fairies that look like Tinkerbell.

I don't understand why after 552 pages anyone still gives God a human personality, when it's apparent that a being that can create life the universe and everything is obviously not human- ergo doesn't have human emotions and to which humans are of no more importance than bacteria, without which no life would exist on planet earth.

I thought that the Bible said that God created man in his own image, so presumably he imparted to us all his own foibles. 
Personally, I believe that man created God in his own image, and each of us are free to imagine the God that we wish to create and resemble. 
The God in men’s minds is the only god that I have seen have any effect on the world around me.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, StreetCowboy said:

I thought that the Bible said that God created man in his own image, so presumably he imparted to us all his own foibles. 
Personally, I believe that man created God in his own image, and each of us are free to imagine the God that we wish to create and resemble. 
The God in men’s minds is the only god that I have seen have any effect on the world around me.

Maybe God does look like a human, and since he gave us our emotions, has them himself.

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

I think all 'rational' atheists are also agnostic in the sense that the reason they are atheist, and lack a belief in theism, is because they understand that they do not know, and that it's unreasonable to think that anyone could possibly know..

 

However, I don't think all agnostics are atheists. There are probably some agnostics who, whilst admitting that they do not know, strive to believe, or at least go through the motions of believing, just in case they discover when they die that there is a God. 

 

This concept is sometimes called 'Pascal's Wager'.

As strange as it may be, i am in complete agreement with you here, perhaps I'm getting old 555

[StreetCowboy]

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Maybe God does look like a human, and since he gave us our emotions, has them himself.

That’s a pretty shabby god to believe in, and he can struggle on without my faith.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, StreetCowboy said:

That’s a pretty shabby god to believe in, and he can struggle on without my faith.

Why? Are humans all repulsive to you? And believe me, although he wants your faith, he won't struggle without it.

[Walker88]

53 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Buddha says he was aware there is a God but he didn't have any use for him.

What god?  You do know when Buddha lived, right? Your bearded carpenter was 500 years in the future, and tales about the guy 800-900 years ahead, or even 2100 years ahead if we're talking King James bible stuff.

 

At the time of Buddha there already were thousands of gods, Since Buddha didn't hang out in the Middle East, he didn't have access to the superstitions of folks there.

 

Funny that your 'loving god' would condemn Buddha to an eternity of Hell despite Buddha not having access to all those 'wonderful' stories like in Leviticus or other bits of mayhem and slaughter your "all loving god" wreaked upon his "children".

[StreetCowboy]

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Why? Are humans all repulsive to you? And believe me, although he wants your faith, he won't struggle without it.

Any god in who’s image I was created would  be neither worth my emulation nor my worship.

[StreetCowboy]

8 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

What god?  You do know when Buddha lived, right? Your bearded carpenter was 500 years in the future, and tales about the guy 800-900 years ahead, or even 2100 years ahead if we're talking King James bible stuff.

 

At the time of Buddha there already were thousands of gods, Since Buddha didn't hang out in the Middle East, he didn't have access to the superstitions of folks there.

 

Funny that your 'loving god' would condemn Buddha to an eternity of Hell despite Buddha not having access to all those 'wonderful' stories like in Leviticus or other bits of mayhem and slaughter your "all loving god" wreaked upon his "children".

King James translated the bible, he was not a prophet.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Walker88 said:

What god?  You do know when Buddha lived, right? Your bearded carpenter was 500 years in the future, and tales about the guy 800-900 years ahead, or even 2100 years ahead if we're talking King James bible stuff.

 

At the time of Buddha there already were thousands of gods, Since Buddha didn't hang out in the Middle East, he didn't have access to the superstitions of folks there.

 

Funny that your 'loving god' would condemn Buddha to an eternity of Hell despite Buddha not having access to all those 'wonderful' stories like in Leviticus or other bits of mayhem and slaughter your "all loving god" wreaked upon his "children".

I cannot find where I read that but this..............It is believed that the Buddha lived some 2,500 years ago at a time when the religious traditions in India promoted faith in God and devotional worship to that God. The Buddha, once he had become awakened to the truth about existence, taught a radically different message that focused on a change in lifestyle and did not focus on any deity.   It was mentioned that Buddha was aware there might be a God but he didn't have any use for him. I couldn't find the exact article. I said probably, as it isn't mine to judge anyone. God expected people to follow his rules. After all, he created everything and since he knows whats best for us, it's his deal to enforce his rules. I have questions I get no answers for,but as this topic is about Do you believe in God and why, mine is faith.

[Walker88]

9 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

That’s a pretty shabby god to believe in, and he can struggle on without my faith.

The gods of these people are not only human, they are wildly flawed humans.....vile entities with the worst qualities of the worst humans. These 'deities' badly need praise and to be told how great they are by what would be the equivalent of amoeba, if these skydaddys really were omnipotent. They make an entire Universe just to wait 13.8 billion years for some sentient beings in the middle of nowhere to say "Wow, you're so great !"

 

That is just so silly---and so very reminiscent of the typical monarch that ruled the Bronze Age peasants who made up all the god nonsense. Their monarchs demanded obedience and praise, so the folks who made up their gods gave their gods the same traits, albeit turbocharged with omnipotence and the ability to vindictively punish non-sycophants for eternity.  That's just nasty. I dare say I am infinitely morally superior to anybody's god. I don't demand praise or thanks, I don't turn people into pillars of salt, I don't order people to slaughter their kids, and for damn sure I don't condemn anybody for all eternity. Also, my Master Plan doesn't involve tornadoes or tsunamis or childhood cancer or any of the other 'mysterious ways' these evil deities show their 'pure love'.

 

Other than some fancy architecture, some paintings and sculptures, all the world's various religions have been a net negative for the species. One would think---hope---such primitive and ignorant nonsense could be put to rest by now, but some folks need it to feel special. The weak cannot handle either randomness or mortality.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Walker88 said:

The gods of these people are not only human, they are wildly flawed humans.....vile entities with the worst qualities of the worst humans. These 'deities' badly need praise and to be told how great they are by what would be the equivalent of amoeba, if these skydaddys really were omnipotent. They make an entire Universe just to wait 13.8 billion years for some sentient beings in the middle of nowhere to say "Wow, you're so great !"

 

That is just so silly---and so very reminiscent of the typical monarch that ruled the Bronze Age peasants who made up all the god nonsense. Their monarchs demanded obedience and praise, so the folks who made up their gods gave their gods the same traits, albeit turbocharged with omnipotence and the ability to vindictively punish non-sycophants for eternity.  That's just nasty. I dare say I am infinitely morally superior to anybody's god. I don't demand praise or thanks, I don't turn people into pillars of salt, I don't order people to slaughter their kids, and for damn sure I don't condemn anybody for all eternity. Also, my Master Plan doesn't involve tornadoes or tsunamis or childhood cancer or any of the other 'mysterious ways' these evil deities show their 'pure love'.

 

Other than some fancy architecture, some paintings and sculptures, all the world's various religions have been a net negative for the species. One would think---hope---such primitive and ignorant nonsense could be put to rest by now, but some folks need it to feel special. The weak cannot handle either randomness or mortality.

If the world was created as a perfect place, we wouldn't have any use for God, or Jesus. This is a test of faith. A lot may turn their backs ,especially if they see a child of theirs die from some asinine disease, a mosquito bite, or hit by a drunk driver. Knowing this is a short life for everyone, even if you live to 100, and that those years can't compare to eternity. This is why he gives us a chance, while we are alive, to see him as our creator, and not a vindictive Hitler that couldn't care less. he promises heaven, no pain or sorrow, forever, after this crapola of a world,especially for those that can't enjoy it.

[Sunmaster]

When I read how distorted the notions are of those who have only an intellectual understanding of All-There-Is, referring back to books or hearsay, interpreting parables in a literal manner, preaching a religion based on exclusion and exclusivity...well, I would rather live in a world without any notion of God at all, as long as people still have a strong moral compass and strive for their own betterment and their fellow men.

 

[StreetCowboy]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

If the world was created as a perfect place, we wouldn't have any use for God, or Jesus. This is a test of faith. A lot may turn their backs ,especially if they see a child of theirs die from some asinine disease, a mosquito bite, or hit by a drunk driver. Knowing this is a short life for everyone, even if you live to 100, and that those years can't compare to eternity. This is why he gives us a chance, while we are alive, to see him as our creator, and not a vindictive Hitler that couldn't care less. he promises heaven, no pain or sorrow, forever, after this crapola of a world,especially for those that can't enjoy it.

Exactly. And that is why he can eff off as far as I am concerned, and we will deal with all the ridiculous and arbitrary troubles he has blighted us with in our  own way, and he himself can run, but he cannot hide.  God, if you believe in him, is not our friend.

[sanuk711]

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Why? Are humans all repulsive to you? And believe me, although he wants your faith, he won't struggle without it.

LOL Your superstition's been struggling for thousands of years. Still today the vast majority of earthlings don't believe in your god. 

[fredwiggy]

20 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

LOL Your superstition's been struggling for thousands of years. Still today the vast majority of earthlings don't believe in your god. 

Over 2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims, about 55%, which isn't quite a vast majority that don't

[Skeptic7]

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Over 2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims, about 55%, which isn't quite a vast majority that don't

69% NOT Christian = pretty vast majority no matter how you slice it

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Skeptic7

[fredwiggy]

11 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

69% NOT Christian = pretty vast majority no matter how you slice it

 

You don't have to be a Christian to believe in God

[VincentRJ]

4 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

It was mentioned that Buddha was aware there might be a God but he didn't have any use for him.

Everything that is perceived in any way, through the 5 senses and the intellect, has to be interpreted. Often the interpretation is automatic and doesn't require contemplation because the brain, as it develops from birth and through childhood, becomes familiar with many basic concepts.

 

For example, if we view a house in the landscape, that looks very small compared with another house in a different location in the same landscape, we don't  have to wonder if the small house might be a child's doll's house. The brain understands that the further away an object is, the smaller it appears.

 

Likewise, if we see a tree obscuring part of a house, the brain automatically understands that the tree is in front of the house, and the house is behind the tree. If we see a house which looks very small, obscuring a tree which looks very large, then the brain will automatically perceive that the house is actually very small and likely a 'doll's house'.

 

However, when it comes to abstract concepts, such as the existence of a creator God, the issue requires deep thought and long contemplation.

 

The Buddha exercised deep thought and long contemplation, full time, and at an early age when his brain was most active. He came to the understanding that determining the existence of a Creator God was an impossible task, and that his time would be better spent on practical issues such as solving the basic problem of 'suffering', which would have been severe and widespread in India 2,500 years ago, considering the numerous tribal conflicts, general poverty, widespread infection from various diseases, and lack of modern medicine and surgery.

 

After about 7 years of trial and error experiments, including extreme fasting almost to the point of death, and after many discussions with the leading gurus of the day, and long periods of contemplation and meditation, he finally understood the cause of suffering and its solution, which he taught for the rest of his life until he passed away at the age of 80.

 

I doubt that Buddha would have been at all concerned about being assigned to Hell by a Creator God, when he died, because he had already succeeded in eliminating the cause of suffering. ????

[teatime101]

5 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

This is a test of faith.

Does God tell the little children dying in agony because of disease, war or famine about this test? Or not? Do some of them go to hell, because they don't believe in God? Maybe if they're old enough and they've already 'got religion', they might curse him, which is perfectly understandable response to being totally ignored by your creator when you have only ever known suffering.

[teatime101]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

You don't have to be a Christian to believe in God

Funny how Indians (tend to) become Hindu, Pakistanis become Muslim and westerners become Christian, hunter/gatherers become animists or pantheists, etc, etc. It's almost as if it's a cultural thing...

[StreetCowboy]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

69% NOT Christian = pretty vast majority no matter how you slice it

 

Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the same One God.  They just follow different prophets.

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

You don't have to be a Christian to believe in God

I would agree with you...EXCEPT for the fact that, if memory serves, you claim yours in the 1 and only and all 69% of others are damned to burn in a lake of fire with gnashing of teeth for eternity. You believe in the Christian god...the one of the Old and New Testaments...yes? AND it has to be your god...not just any god. And you've already made clear, if memory serves, that anyone who doesn't accept your god, is doomed to burn in Hell. You even included Buddha suffering that very fate, same as me...a lifelong atheist and blasphemer. 

 

So, in your all-loving superstitious opinion, 69% of nearly 8 billion humans living today, plus untold billions of other non-christians who previously lived, are going to burn (or are already burning) in your loving god's Hell. Or have I got you wrong?