Catholic Catechisms.

# 296:  God creates "out of nothing"  We believe that God needs no pre-existent thing or any help in order to create, nor is creation any sort of necessary emanation from the divine substance.  God creates freely "out of nothing” If God had drawn the world from pre-existent matter, what would be so extraordinary in that? A human artisan makes from a given material whatever he wants, while God shows his power by starting from nothing to make all he wants.  

#297 Scripture bears witness to faith in creation "out of nothing" as a truth full of promise and hope.

 

 #298 Since God could create everything out of nothing, he can also, through the Holy Spirit, give spiritual life to sinners by creating a pure heart in them, and bodily life to the dead through the Resurrection. God "gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist." And since God was able to make light shine in darkness by his Word, he can also give the light of faith to those who do not yet know him.

5 hours ago, yodsak said:

"There was never a Big Bang that produced something from nothing. It just seemed that way from mankind's perspective,”—  Hawking

 

 Scientists do not say that before the Big Bang, nothing existed. However, creationists often say that scientists say that before the Big Bang, nothing existed. What scientists actually say is that at the Planck epoch, which is the period up to which the universe is a Planck time old (10^-43 seconds), they don't know what happened and maybe never will.

 

This is the closest that current physics can get to the absolute beginning of time, and very little can be known about this period. General relativity proposes a gravitational singularity before this time (although even that may break down due to quantum effects), and it is hypothesised that the four fundamental forces (electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force and gravity) all have the same strength, and are possibly even unified into one fundamental force held together by a perfect symmetry which some have likened to a sharpened pencil standing on its point.

 

’’ The word  ‘’God'' for me is nothing more than the product of human weaknesses, and religious scripture a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.’’ — Albert Einstein. 

All of which goes to show that scientists don't know, and are just guessing.

If they don't "know" what was before the big bang, how can they say that God does not exist?

 

Albert didn't know everything either.

5 hours ago, yodsak said:

Catholic Catechisms.

# 296:  God creates "out of nothing"  We believe that God needs no pre-existent thing or any help in order to create, nor is creation any sort of necessary emanation from the divine substance.  God creates freely "out of nothing” If God had drawn the world from pre-existent matter, what would be so extraordinary in that? A human artisan makes from a given material whatever he wants, while God shows his power by starting from nothing to make all he wants.  

#297 Scripture bears witness to faith in creation "out of nothing" as a truth full of promise and hope.

 

 #298 Since God could create everything out of nothing, he can also, through the Holy Spirit, give spiritual life to sinners by creating a pure heart in them, and bodily life to the dead through the Resurrection. God "gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist." And since God was able to make light shine in darkness by his Word, he can also give the light of faith to those who do not yet know him.

Given they were written by men, they were just guessing, IMO.

 

 

If God had drawn the world from pre-existent matter, what would be so extraordinary in that?

What were they smoking? Isn't making life the universe and everything pretty amazing, even if it was from pre existing matter.

If a mod is reading this, is there any other thread that has run for 700 pages?

On 12/4/2020 at 1:17 PM, VincentRJ said:

 

Good point! It's amazing to think that we are hosts to trillions of bacteria, especially in the gut, which are essential for our continuing life and health. It's also amazing that this 'scientifically proven' concept fits with one of the fundamental teachings of Gautama Buddha who lived 2,500 years ago; that everything arises in dependence upon multiple causes and conditions, sometime described as 'interdependent co-arising', and that nothing exists as a singular, independent entity.

 

If we were to remove all Carbon Dioxide from the atmosphere, we'd become extinct, because Carbon Dioxide is essential for all plant growth, and plants are essential for all 'animal' life.

 

However, the Buddha didn't feel the need to pretend that he understood the nature of a Creator God. He had the sense to understand that such an entity, if it existed, would be unknowable, beyond the realm of human understanding.

So all we have to do to understand something  more about the nature, is to transcend our personal ego. A good starting point could be not to identify ourselves just with the physical reality.

Just saying.

On 12/9/2020 at 10:24 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Here's a thought. Non believers say the BIble is a fairy story because it says the earth and the stars were created in 6 days.

However, what if the Creator exists in an alternate space time where a day is a trillion trillion earth days long? Who said the bible has to be referring to planet earth days?

What if the burning bush was a sort of telephone from another dimension?

What if Jesus was God energy made visible to humans, but with the power to do miracles and raise the dead?

It is entirely  possible imho that the gods of our mythology were advanced beings able to travel to other planets.

Personally I consider jesus as a human incarnation of what is good and true.

The last 5 pages of this thread have been of a very good quality, very good posts all.

There is obviously a middle ground where science and spirituality can meet.

And @Sunmaster is spot on when he says that God is beyond time, and I would add, space, although  this concept may be impervious to the materialists.

 

C'mon guys. We're nearly at 700 pages. Let's just do it.

 

It's been a much more enjoyable thread recently since the atheists stopped trying to prove God doesn't exist. Does that say something about the presence of God in threads on forums?

 

Had some wonderful sunsets recently- I felt awed at the glory of the creator.

 

 

On 12/10/2020 at 10:46 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

All of which goes to show that scientists don't know, and are just guessing.

If they don't "know" what was before the big bang, how can they say that God does not exist?

 

Albert didn't know everything either.

At least the scientist can explain a big part of this universe - even if they don't do it perfectly.

People who believe in god do exactly that and only that: believe.

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

People who believe in god do exactly that and only that: believe.

This could be true....if you had any idea what you're talking about.
Unfortunately, you don't.

 

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

At least the scientist can explain a big part of this universe - even if they don't do it perfectly.

People who believe in god do exactly that and only that: believe.

There should not be a problem to believe in science and a god, but what most people think of god, would be wrong anyway, as you say, just a belief. 

 

Science do give us some leads on the basics, and exploring nature what is close or should be close  to us, give us the feeling of something greater than us, but to be true, we are part of it, and therefor it should not be greater. Right? 

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

C'mon guys. We're nearly at 700 pages. Let's just do it.

 

It's been a much more enjoyable thread recently since the atheists stopped trying to prove God doesn't exist. Does that say something about the presence of God in threads on forums?

 

Had some wonderful sunsets recently- I felt awed at the glory of the creator.

 

 

You missed the point: We can't prove that god does not exist. And it's not our job to try to explain something obvious to people who believe and who don't want to use science.

 

Maybe look up Russell's teapot and learn:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

Just now, Tagged said:

There should not be a problem to believe in science and a god, but what most people think of god, would be wrong anyway, as you say, just a belief. 

In fact there isn't a problem. One doesn't exclude the other.

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

This could be true....if you had any idea what you're talking about.
Unfortunately, you don't.

I know what I am talking about - you don't know what I am talking about.

You believe you know.

I highlighted the important word for you.

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I know what I am talking about - you don't know what I am talking about.

You believe you know.

I highlighted the important word for you.

If you know what you're talking about, you must know what it's like to believe in God. From what you write though, the opposite seems to be true. Therefore....you don't know what it's like to believe and for that reason you don't know what you're talking about.
I highlighted the whole concept for you. You're welcome.

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

You missed the point: We can't prove that god does not exist. And it's not our job to try to explain something obvious to people who believe and who don't want to use science.

 

Maybe look up Russell's teapot and learn:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

 

And it's not our job to try to explain something obvious to people who believe that science knows all. IMO science is never settled. Humans are far too primitive, IMO, to have science that is much good at all.

It's not even as though science is much good anyway. Can't cure cancer, can't stop people killing each other, can't stop bullying. Science can't even stop people getting obese.

700 Pages.

We made it! Well done guys.

I help you to fill this page with something to think about - or should I say believe?

 

 

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I help you to fill this page with something to think about - or should I say believe?

 

 

We only had to reach 700. We don't need any more filler material. Thanks for the offer of help though.

For those that missed looking before clicking

 

Started April 15 2019.

 

10,500 replies

 

332,000 views.

 

That's pretty impressive.

 

Take a bow ivor.

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

For those that missed looking before clicking

 

Started April 15 2019.

 

10,500 replies

 

332,000 views.

 

That's pretty impressive.

 

Take a bow ivor.

So many thoughts, so many ideas, so much feelings, and still can not aggree ????

 

Nature and science hand in hand is as close to god we can get ???? 

22 minutes ago, Tagged said:

So many thoughts, so many ideas, so much feelings, and still can not aggree ????

 

Nature and science hand in hand is as close to god we can get ???? 

Or just 700 pages filled with believes and ignorance?

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

For those that missed looking before clicking

 

Started April 15 2019.

 

10,500 replies

 

332,000 views.

 

That's pretty impressive.

 

Take a bow ivor.

There are also over 70,000,000 Americans who voted for Trump.

Some people would call it impressive. Others have other names for the same thing. ???? 

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or just 700 pages filled with believes and ignorance?

I think it have been a nice journey with alot of good posts from most. Entertaining as a pain in the butt end, but as said I come out a bit more aware of where I stand when it comes to religion as who I am as a person. And that can not be bad at all.

 

Still dissagree with man made religion and maybe more thankfull to mother earth,  to everything I have learned during my life, to who actually have impacted my life alot more than I knew before this thread. 

 

There have been som keyplayers here  I would like to thank, and it is not those who always have backed up my arguments but rather questioned my belief, my stands to my poor language. 

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or just 700 pages filled with believes and ignorance?

By your own admission, you know little or nothing about God or spirituality in general. I would call that ignorance. And then judging others based on that ignorance....brilliant. ????
But up to you, if 700 pages couldn't make you question your own belief and consider other points of view, this post certainly won't.

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There are also over 70,000,000 Americans who voted for Trump.

Some people would call it impressive. Others have other names for the same thing. ???? 

And so many of those 70 millions call themselves christians. 

It still seems that most of the posters on this thread have some idea of God as a personal being we are separate from.
A few thoughts on that:
2 people sleep in the same room. Everyone dreams and everyone dreams something different. During the dream the world is just as real for everyone as the world they perceive while they are awake.  And the world in which they experience themselves while awake does not exist. Each dream is a universe.

 

Where is the world that you live in while you dream? In the brain? Some kind of computer memory? And where are all these dream worlds after physical death? Could it be said that this world of dreams is simply a piece of consciousness, separate from the consciousness of the world of day? A single universe? It might be possible that in deep meditation one continues to experience oneself as existing, while  experiencing that the space (the world we perceive as real while we are awake) does not exist, or rather does not exist in itself but only as a concept or a content in consciousness - and consciousness is all that is.

If so, then there is only one thing and that is consciousness. And this all-encompassing consciousness would then be God. And then we all exist as a part of this great consciousness that has (temporarily?) forgotten the whole. And how would this unique awareness feel about itself? Perhaps what is called love and some associate with God.

 

During the dream we "know" that what we experience is true. When we are awake we "know" that what we are experiencing is true. Where's the difference? When we think we know something, that is one of the greatest illusions. This to those who think they "know" something and "know" they are therefore superior to people who believe otherwise. Knowledge is nothing more than a subspecies of belief and one should not be fooled into.

20 minutes ago, Tagged said:

I think it have been a nice journey with alot of good posts from most. Entertaining as a pain in the butt end, but as said I come out a bit more aware of where I stand when it comes to religion as who I am as a person. And that can not be bad at all.

 

Still vanti man made religion and maybe more thankfull to mother earth,  to everything I have learned during my life, to who actually have impacted my life alot more than I knew before this thread. 

 

There have been som keyplayers here  I would like to thank, and it is not those who always have backed up my arguments but rather questioned my belief, my stands to my poor language. 

Thanks for that, I would like to say that if I was critical of your language, which btw has greatly improved, it's  just because I'm  interested in what you have to say on this topic.

Moreover, I have found that your vision of the universe which surrounds us, and the universe which is inside us, is more often than not, quite similar to mine.

18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Thanks for that, I would like to say that if I was critical of your language, which btw has greatly improved, it's  just because I'm  interested in what you have to say on this topic.

Moreover, I have found that your vision of the universe which surrounds us, and the universe which is inside us, is more often than not, quite similar to mine.

From inside of yourself you experience the outside ???? 

 

I Need to google that one and see what come up ????  

6 minutes ago, Tagged said:

From inside of yourself you experience the outside ???? 

 

I Need to google that one and see what come up ????  

It's  true for the opposite too.. from the outside you experience  the inside ????