Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Maybe if drunk to excess and alone. Drunk with friends in a pub can hardly be described as a depressant?

Alcohol is classified as a Central Nervous System depressant, meaning that it slows down brain functioning and neural activity. Alcohol does this by enhancing the effects of the neurotransmitter GABA.

Alcohol can depress the central nervous system so much that it results in impairment such as slurred speech, unsteady movement, disturbed perceptions, and an inability to react quickly. Mentally, alcohol reduces an individual’s ability to think rationally, lessens inhibitions, and distorts judgment. If an individual consumes too much alcohol too rapidly, they can depress the central nervous system to a point of respiratory failure, coma, or death.
https://www.addictioncenter.com/alcohol/is-alcohol-a-depressant/

[VocalNeal]

So was there a reason for turning water into wine? 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Alcohol is classified as a Central Nervous System depressant, meaning that it slows down brain functioning and neural activity. Alcohol does this by enhancing the effects of the neurotransmitter GABA.

Alcohol can depress the central nervous system so much that it results in impairment such as slurred speech, unsteady movement, disturbed perceptions, and an inability to react quickly. Mentally, alcohol reduces an individual’s ability to think rationally, lessens inhibitions, and distorts judgment. If an individual consumes too much alcohol too rapidly, they can depress the central nervous system to a point of respiratory failure, coma, or death.
https://www.addictioncenter.com/alcohol/is-alcohol-a-depressant/

...and to add some Christian theory, it makes one's guardian angel go away.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

came across the term "panpsychism"

Intentionally omitted "panpsychism" for brevity mainly, but figured we'd hit on it. I was recently made aware of the word watching some vids with Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett and on a YouTube channel entitled "Closer To Truth", with which you're prob familiar. If not...highly recommended. The host is Robert Lawrence Kuhn. 

 

I also avoided "panpsychism" because "radical" came up a couple times. Also came up that it's unscientific because it can't be falsified or empirically tested and has no predictive uses. 

 

Some of those stating such are Daniel Dennett and John Searle, among others.

 

"Panpsychism" seems quite far-fetched to me as well. And to what purpose? To what end? To prove what...god? Still see no link to any "god" even if it was true. But that's just me. 

[Sunmaster]

7 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Intentionally omitted "panpsychism" for brevity mainly, but figured we'd hit on it. I was recently made aware of the word watching some vids with Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett and on a YouTube channel entitled "Closer To Truth", with which you're prob familiar. If not...highly recommended. The host is Robert Lawrence Kuhn. 

 

I also avoided "panpsychism" because "radical" came up a couple times. Also came up that it's unscientific because it can't be falsified or empirically tested and has no predictive uses. 

 

Some of those stating such are Daniel Dennett and John Searle, among others.

 

"Panpsychism" seems quite far-fetched to me as well. And to what purpose? To what end? To prove what...god? Still see no link to any "god" even if it was true. But that's just me. 

It's new to me, so I'm not too familiar with the finer points of panpsychism. I don't think it pretends to be scientific in a strict sense, because it addresses mainly the hard problem of consciousness. So more of a philosophy than traditional science and more similar to Buddhism perhaps. 

I do see a connection to the "God question" though. I know you don't think much of it, but for me consciousness is synonymous with God, for all the reasons I've been discussing here in the past 2 years. The way I see it, consciousness is all there is. It's like an infinite ocean and we are temporary units of consciousness, like drops of water in the ocean's spray. 

I don't know about that YT channel, but will check it out. Thanks

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The way I see it, consciousness is all there is. It's like an infinite ocean and we are temporary units of consciousness, like drops of water in the ocean's spray. 

I read "consciousness of the atom " by Alice Bailey many years ago, it's a good read, I think. 

It's the same concept of the Vedas, every single atom contains the image of Vishnu. 

"As above, as below" is the same concept on a shoestring. 

For me, it's as clear as the sun, yet many questions arise.

[Skeptic7]

22 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I don't know about that YT channel, but will check it out. Thanks

Been binging it lately. Really good. Here's one am quite certain both you and @mauGR1will like. It's not biased at all (if anything, goes slightly against my side at times) and the host as well as all his interviewees are highly qualified and some well known, including David Chalmers on this one. Extremely professional and well done.

 

 

[VincentRJ]

First, I offer my condolences to Skeptic7 for the loss of his loved one.

 

I consider myself an atheist, in the sense of having a 'lack of belief' in any God, rather than a 'belief in the lack of' any God. The latter definition is expressed in many dictionaries, causing some confusion. I don't consider atheism as a 'belief', but rather a 'lack of belief', in Theism.

 

The only concern I have about dying is the 'potential', extreme, discomfort and/or pain, that I might experience prior to my endless sleep. Fortunately, Australia is moving towards the legalization of Euthanasia, so that concern is now greatly diminished.

 

I have no good reason to suppose that death is any more than going to sleep, without dreaming, and never waking up.

[Skeptic7]

10 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Australia is moving towards the legalization of Euthanasia, so that concern is now greatly diminished.

Final Exit (book) by Derek Humphry.

 

Recently discovered this suicide manual. 

[Nickelbeer]

If I can't see it. I don't believe in it. Don't bother using the example of air.  You CAN see air, with the help of certain scientific tools. Deities are for those with limited intelligence.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

So was there a reason for turning water into wine? 

Yes the 7-11s were closed!

[mauGR1]

50 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

have no good reason to suppose that death is any more than going to sleep, without dreaming, and never waking up.

As i consider life on the physical plane to be a sort of reflection of things happening on other planes... I know,  you may see it as an unreasonable leap of faith... but I don't see why the experience of sleeping shouldn't reflect the experience of death.

Sometimes dreaming,  sometimes not, and in the end waking up again.

I believe very evolved beings having a total control over this process... and surely, practicing mindfulness can help a lot.

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

If I can't see it. I don't believe in it. Don't bother using the example of air.  You CAN see air, with the help of certain scientific tools. Deities are for those with limited intelligence.

Wow.

You, on the other hand must be really intelligent to write a comment like that. 

Well done. ????

[canthai55]

The 'You' is part of your physical body (and 'Soul' if your beliefs run this way) here and now.

After death - there is no You anymore.

If you are reincarnated, there is a "New" you. Which may or may not have knowledge of the old You.

The You right now is a construct of your experiences in this life up to this point.

A You in a reincarnated body will not be the same - old You likes carrots, new You hates them for example - altho' some traits may be in common.

Still waiting ...

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Maybe if drunk to excess and alone. Drunk with friends in a pub can hardly be described as a depressant?er do

Perhaps better described as a suppressant. People do things when drunk they'd never ever do sober, with or without other people around. I'm guilty of that myself.

 

BTW, it does make me depressed, which is why I gave it up.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Fortunately, Australia is moving towards the legalization of Euthanasia, so that concern is now greatly diminished.

If it's only for the terminally ill it's still not going to help a lot of people that have had enough of this <deleted> world. They will still have to do things that might not work, or only injure. It's not that easy to kill oneself without the correct drugs.

[canthai55]

Very easy to end it all without pain, and 100% effective.

Gov'ts around the world need to realize that it is not any of their business what people do, if it does not harm others.

And this includes suicide.

The only people against it are those who do not have to endure the monumental pain that will need to be endured otherwise. Quality of life.

Thank Judeo-Christian religion, which still exerts a strong hold on the  justice system of Western countries, altho all organized religions are more or less the same.

 

 

[VincentRJ]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it's only for the terminally ill it's still not going to help a lot of people that have had enough of this <deleted> world. They will still have to do things that might not work, or only injure. It's not that easy to kill oneself without the correct drugs.

Of course, legalized euthanasia is only for the terminally ill. If one is just fed up with life, there are lots of remedies involving changes to one's lifestyle. Such changes could include a healthy diet, lots of exercise, engaging in meditation practices, participating in community organizations and charity organizations, and so on.

 

One could even try becoming a Buddhist monk, or convert to Christianity and dwell upon thoughts of the wonderful life one will eventually have in Heaven. ????
 

[Sunmaster]

I'm all for the freedom of choosing what you do with your consciousness. Do you want to expand it with entheogenic substances? Go ahead. You choose to terminate it? OK.

Obviously, I agree with Vincent that it should be reserved for the terminally ill and not just as a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

[mauGR1]

I was asking, a couple of days ago, a question about the purpose of existence. 

It seems a relevant question to me, but apparently it's not relevant for many, or perhaps,  some think there's no purpose at all.

So, i just came across this quote, which i find, if not fully satisfying, at least worth of some attention:

"The sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere existence ".

 

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

I was asking, a couple of days ago, a question about the purpose of existence. 

It seems a relevant question to me, but apparently it's not relevant for many, or perhaps,  some think there's no purpose at all.

So, i just came across this quote, which i find, if not fully satisfying, at least worth of some attention:

"The sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere existence ".

 

I presume the question was about the purpose of the existence of life. Is this correct?

 

If so, the answer seems obvious to me. The most fundamental quality of all forms of life, from the most primitive bacteria and plants to the most advanced hominoids, is the motive, or driving force, to reproduce. Without that purpose, there could be no life.

 

Of course, that doesn't mean that all creatures will attempt to reproduce at all times, regardless of the conditions. Marsupials in Australia will tend to shut down their reproductive system when conditions are too dry to breed successfully, and reboot it when conditions improve.

 

Humans, with their greater capacity for language and abstract thought, can make decisions to refrain from reproduction for all sorts of reasons, but every creature's existence is dependent upon their parents not refraining from reproduction.
 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Of course, legalized euthanasia is only for the terminally ill. If one is just fed up with life, there are lots of remedies involving changes to one's lifestyle. Such changes could include a healthy diet, lots of exercise, engaging in meditation practices, participating in community organizations and charity organizations, and so on.

 

One could even try becoming a Buddhist monk, or convert to Christianity and dwell upon thoughts of the wonderful life one will eventually have in Heaven. ????
 

I can only assume from that, that you have never been suicidal, clinically depressed, or have any idea what it's like to be wanting to exit this life.

 

Start quote

Such changes could include a healthy diet, lots of exercise,

end quote

Are you freaking serious?

 

[mauGR1]

31 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

I presume the question was about the purpose of the existence of life. Is this correct?

 

If so, the answer seems obvious to me. The most fundamental quality of all forms of life, from the most primitive bacteria and plants to the most advanced hominoids, is the motive, or driving force, to reproduce. Without that purpose, there could be no life.

 

Of course, that doesn't mean that all creatures will attempt to reproduce at all times, regardless of the conditions. Marsupials in Australia will tend to shut down their reproductive system when conditions are too dry to breed successfully, and reboot it when conditions improve.

 

Humans, with their greater capacity for language and abstract thought, can make decisions to refrain from reproduction for all sorts of reasons, but every creature's existence is dependent upon their parents not refraining from reproduction.
 

In fact i was talking about existence in general, including basic elements, minerals,  plants and animals, while the quote I added refers to human existence. 

Imho, reproduction and the drive to reproduce should be included into "mere existence ", but humans are obviously not satisfied with just existing, and that's the most striking difference between us and all the other forms of life.

So, no, I would not consider reproduction as the purpose of existence, but just a way for existence to renew and evolve itself.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

In fact i was talking about existence in general, including basic elements, minerals,  plants and animals, while the quote I added refers to human existence. 

Imho, reproduction and the drive to reproduce should be included into "mere existence ", but humans are obviously not satisfied with just existing, and that's the most striking difference between us and all the other forms of life.

So, no, I would not consider reproduction as the purpose of existence, but just a way for existence to renew and evolve itself.

Reproduction is a genetic program designed to ensure survival of the species, but that doesn't mean it's why we exist.

Believing in the Creator I obviously consider that life exists for a higher purpose than mere existence.

[canthai55]

That 'Higher Purpose' is a way for humans to answer the fundamental question which has been asked for millennia - "Why are we Here ?"

To me - any question - apart from a purely scientific reason - that begins with "WHY" is suspect.

EG - 'Why do you not love me any more ?' Because the person who originally said 'I Love You' is no longer here. He has changed, evolved, turned into something different. Or the other party has - or both would be closer to the Truth.

It will take something non-human to find the reason - that is if there is one.

 

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

That 'Higher Purpose' is a way for humans to answer the fundamental question which has been asked for millennia - "Why are we Here ?"

To me - any question - apart from a purely scientific reason - that begins with "WHY" is suspect.

It will take something non-human to find the reason - that is if there is one.

 

Every honest question is for scientific reasons.

I am unable to answer all questions,  but it depends on my ignorance. 

I think that if there's a question, there should be an answer, soon or later.

Should i assume that for most non-believers there's no purpose for existence?

Just asking????

[Skeptic7]

36 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Should i assume that for most non-believers there's no purpose for existence?

From this unbeliever, if I may... 

 

There's no inherent purpose. We, as individuals, give our lives meaning and purpose. Myriad factors play a role throughout one's life, but regardless wealth, country of origin, upbringing, family, education etc...it's ultimately up to each individual to give meaning to their existence and find or make purpose, or not. This is true for everyone...believer or non. 

[canthai55]

6 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

From this unbeliever, if I may... 

 

There's no inherent purpose. We, as individuals, give our lives meaning and purpose. Myriad factors play a role throughout one's life, but regardless wealth, country of origin, upbringing, family, education etc...it's ultimately up to each individual to give meaning to their existence and find or make purpose, or not. This is true for everyone...believer or non. 

Agree - the only purpose is to continue living.

If it makes you feel better to believe in some existential 'Reason' for it, by all means go for it.

I lived in some truly horrible places, and the will to survive is why I am still amongst the living.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

From this unbeliever, if I may... 

 

There's no inherent purpose. We, as individuals, give our lives meaning and purpose. Myriad factors play a role throughout one's life, but regardless wealth, country of origin, upbringing, family, education etc...it's ultimately up to each individual to give meaning to their existence and find or make purpose, or not. This is true for everyone...believer or non. 

That's a honest answer, and i agree to an extent. 

Yet if i imagine looking at our world from a distance, as a unity, i can't help to ask myself, what's the purpose of all that.

 

You say: " there's not inherent purpose "..

..I have many doubts about that, even if i have to concede that the same thought is crossing my mind on occasion. 

[Ebumbu]

Just like history is written by the winners, who is a cult and who is not a cult is written by the winners.