Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, sweatalot said:

not only consciousness but everything. Everything is consciousness and created by consciousness. Everything is an impermanent manifestation of permanent consciousness.

 

Nothing is eternal but consciousness.

Yes. At the most basic everything is electricity- atoms etc. Entirely plausible.

[androokery]

On 4/18/2019 at 12:40 PM, mauGR1 said:

When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but sometimes it's difficult for religious/christian people to understand how much their religion permeates EVERYTHING. Example: on the flag of my country of origin there's a huge christian cross. Wherever I go, I'm represented by a christian symbol as far as my nationality is concerned. The head of state in my country is by law required to believe in god according to a 16th century definition known as the Augsburg confession. 

[CMNightRider]

Down through the years the Bible has been ridiculed, burned, refuted, destroyed, but it lives on.  It is the anvil that has worn out many hammers.  Most books are born, live a few short years, then go the way of all the earth; they’re forgotten.  But not the Bible. The Bible is preserved. It lives on.

 

The prophetic messages of the Bible are coming true in our day.  In 2 Timothy, written almost 2,000 years ago, it says, “But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:  For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power…” (2 Timothy 3:1-5). Isn’t that happening?  The Bible says in the latter period travel shall increase, knowledge will increase (Daniel 12:4).  Look what has happened in the last 75 years in the world.  The whole world has become a neighborhood without being a brotherhood.  That’s precisely what the Bible said 500 years before Christ.

 

And Jesus, 2,000 years ago, looking forward, said there would be a day like this.  Oh, the Bible is true.

 

Recent archaeological discoveries have thrown some people for a loss.  Several years ago many writers spoke of the sure results, the absolute certainties and the final position of a science (archaeology) that had disproved the Bible, but these phrases are no longer uttered.

 

Hundreds of old volumes fill your libraries right now saying that Moses could never have written the first five books of the Bible as is claimed because writing had not even been invented up until that time.  But tablets and inscriptions have been found which were written several hundred years before Moses.  The Bible was right and scholars wrong.

 

And then many volumes once filled libraries about John’s Gospel.  They stated that he could not have written it; that it was not written until the third or fourth century.  Yet scholars of Ryland’s University, Ryland’s Library in Manchester, England, uncovered a fragment from the Gospel of John dating to around 100 A.D., proving that the Gospel of John existed in the first century.  The Bible was right and the scholars were wrong.  A scientist once said in the New York Times, “Every fact and every science that man has so far discovered adds luster and testimony to the value and integrity of the Bible.”

 

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

 

The prophetic messages of the Bible are coming true in our day.  In 2 Timothy, written almost 2,000 years ago, it says, “But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:  For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power…” (2 Timothy 3:1-5). Isn’t that happening?  The Bible says in the latter period travel shall increase, knowledge will increase (Daniel 12:4).  Look what has happened in the last 75 years in the world.  The whole world has become a neighborhood without being a brotherhood.  That’s precisely what the Bible said 500 years before Christ.



I think the reverse is happening in countries which have largely rejected religion. The more religiously dogmatic countries are, such as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, and so on, the truer the Biblical predictions you've mentioned become, for those countries.

 

During the times the Bible was written, and later until a few hundred years ago, life was unimaginably horrible from the perspective of modern, developed societies. People were often tortured and burned alive for expressing an honest opinion which was against the prevailing, religious consensus.

 

I feel very privileged and happy that I am living in a country such as Australia, which is not dominated by religious dogma. I feel genuinely sorry for those who have been conditioned from an early age to accept the dogmas of their family religion, and who often cannot break away from the pure irrationality of their belief.

[Skeptic7]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, the real question!

Perhaps the matrix exists and we are all just batteries with dreams. Given everything is electricity, anything is possible.

 

BUT, lets say that our universe was created by some force that I refer to as "God". What's to say that "God" isn't a scientist in another universe that was in turn created by a scientist in another universe, ad infinitum. We could just be a twinkle in Orion's Belt on a dog's neck ( did you see Men in Black? )

Anything is possible, but in any event, I only think as far as the being/ force that created our universe, as thinking too much of endless possibilities makes my head hurt.

All these ridiculous absurdities and nonsensical "possibilities" you continue to pull out of your...out of thin air...cannot all be right or even all possible, but they certainly can all be wrong. 

 

Trust me...you're making all our heads hurt, not just your own! ????

Edited July 1, 2019 by Skeptic7

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

YOU should be BANNED from ever quoting Spock or even mentioning his name. Doing so is true sacrilege. ???? 

I don’t think Spock even said that. Spock was always pretty sceptical, yet open-minded on matters ecclesiastical.

[notmyself]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have long believed that all consciousness derives from a single source. It gives the biological machines we use to carry "us" around consciousness, and when our biological transport machine dies, our consciousness goes back to the source, and may later enter another body, which explains reincarnation. While we don't remember the other side, some traces may give us the feeling of having lived before.

 

• I have long believed that all consciousness derives from a single source

 

You would also have to believe multiple sources (and no source) since they have never been disproved.

 

 

 

[frantick]

On 7/1/2019 at 2:59 AM, CMNightRider said:

The prophetic messages of the Bible are coming true in our day.  In 2 Timothy, written almost 2,000 years ago, it says, “But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:  For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power…” (2 Timothy 3:1-5). Isn’t that happening?  The Bible says in the latter period travel shall increase, knowledge will increase (Daniel 12:4).  Look what has happened in the last 75 years in the world.  The whole world has become a neighborhood without being a brotherhood.  That’s precisely what the Bible said 500 years before Christ.

Prophetic?  People have had those traits for all time.  Just a generalized knowledge of human nature preached to make every generation believe they best behave because they're in 'the end times'.  Give us something specific @CMNightRider; because, God.

[notmyself]

On 7/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, CMNightRider said:

That’s precisely what the Bible said 500 years before Christ.

 

OT also said......

 

12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+12%3A12&version=KJV

 

All the gods of Egypt huh?

 

 

[Chelseafan]

Only when I'm in the air.

 

Though I suspect I will be praying a lot more to him next season ????

[notmyself]

The worship attribute is an interesting aspect of the debate.

 

Not sue I mentioned it before but I gave a commercial oven to a friend because the one she had was disintegrating (Samui: Sea air). She thanked me, as is polite, but imagine she thanked me every day, all the time.... forever. How would YOU feel?

 

….. video of how to find out something and a picture of the oven. Good oven and she'll get 10 years out of it minimum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CMNightRider]

On 7/3/2019 at 9:56 AM, notmyself said:

The worship attribute is an interesting aspect of the debate.

 

Not sue I mentioned it before but I gave a commercial oven to a friend because the one she had was disintegrating (Samui: Sea air). She thanked me, as is polite, but imagine she thanked me every day, all the time.... forever. How would YOU feel?

 

….. video of how to find out something and a picture of the oven. Good oven and she'll get 10 years out of it minimum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.1 Thessalonians 5:18

As believers, we know we should give thanks to God because He is good and worthy of our praise and because of what He did through His Son on the cross.   But Scripture states that we are to live a life of thanksgiving because it is His will for us.  And when we truly love God and want to live a Christ-like life, we long to be obedient to Him, not because we have to but because we love Him so much.  

Obeying His Word blesses us, strengthens our relationship with Him, and allows Him to continue transforming us into the image of Christ. When we truly understand the heart of God, that He loves us with a love that endures forever, it becomes clear that a thankful heart is what He desires for us because it’s what’s best for us.

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.  Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. >James 1:2-4

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, CMNightRider said:

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.  Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything

Something I consider daily as I've got the builders in, renovating my kitchen. The oven picture is a great help however

[CMNightRider]

44 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Something I consider daily as I've got the builders in, renovating my kitchen. The oven picture is a great help however

If you are still struggling with gender confusion issues, praying daily would benefit you far more than posting silly comments. 

[Date Masamune]

We have already talked about how God created the beginning   This is what the Bible says about the end.  If I were an atheist, I would pay particular attention to this.  
 
The event usually referred to as “the end of the world” (eschaton) is described in 2 Peter 3:10:  “The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.”  This is the culmination of a series of events called “the day of the Lord,” the time when God will intervene in human history for the purpose of judgment.  At that time, all that God has created, “the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1), He will destroy. 

The timing of this event, according to most Bible scholars, is at the end of the 1000-year period called the millennium.  During these 1000 years, Christ will reign on earth as King in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32-33) and ruling in peace but with a “rod of iron” (Revelation 19:15).  At the end of the 1000 years, Satan will be released, defeated again, and then cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7-10).  Then, after a final judgment by God, the end of the world described in 2 Peter 3:10 occurs.  The Bible tells us several things about this event. 

First, it will be cataclysmic in scope.  The “heavens” refers to the physical universe – the stars, planets, and galaxies—which will be consumed by some kind of tremendous explosion, possibly a nuclear or atomic reaction that will consume and obliterate all matter as we know it.  All the elements that make up the universe will be melted in the “fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:12).  This will also be a noisy event, described in different Bible versions as a “roar” (NIV), a “great noise” (KJV), a “loud noise” (CEV), and a “thunderous crash” (AMP).  There will be no doubt as to what is happening.  Everyone will see and hear it because we are also told that “the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.” 

Then God will create a “new heaven and a new earth” (Revelation 21:1), which will include the “New Jerusalem” (v. 2), the capital city of heaven, a place of perfect holiness, which will come down from heaven to the new earth.  This is the city where the saints—those whose names were written in the “Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 13:8)—will live forever. Peter refers to this new creation as “the home of righteousness” (2 Peter 3:13). 

Perhaps the most important part of Peter’s description of that day is his question in verses 11-12:  “Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be?  You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.”  Christians know what is going to happen, and we should live in a way that reflects that understanding. This life is passing away, and our focus should be on the new heavens and earth to come.  Our “holy and godly” lives should be a testimony to those who do not know the Savior, and we should tell others about Him so they can escape the terrible fate that awaits those who reject Him.  We wait in eager anticipation for God’s “Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come” (1 Thessalonians 1:10).
 

When such half-truths and nonsense are bandied about, it is wise to ask and consider “What am I not being told?” The god of the Israelites is weak, when the Zionist entity takes your soul for eternity you ARE trapped and truly doomed. A white light, and then nothing.

There is no end in actuality DAGON creates trillions of universes. They exist simultaneously and come and go, like bubbles on a glass of beer. Dagonism is not inconsistent with scientific observation. DAGON you have eternal life again and against to REVEL in power, weakness, wealth, a simple life, the pleasures of the flesh, true love. Whatever it is you desire.
Do what you wish , the whole of the law. Dagonism is not for hypocrites or liars. Turn away from the light and accept the path of DAGON. Do you best on earth be a good person and be rewarded for all time. Bow down to DAGON!

Hail Dagon !

[notmyself]

6 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.1 Thessalonians 5:18

As believers, we know we should give thanks to God because He is good and worthy of our praise and because of what He did through His Son on the cross.   But Scripture states that we are to live a life of thanksgiving because it is His will for us.  And when we truly love God and want to live a Christ-like life, we long to be obedient to Him, not because we have to but because we love Him so much.  

Obeying His Word blesses us, strengthens our relationship with Him, and allows Him to continue transforming us into the image of Christ. When we truly understand the heart of God, that He loves us with a love that endures forever, it becomes clear that a thankful heart is what He desires for us because it’s what’s best for us.

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.  Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. >James 1:2-4

 

Indeed... a willing slave, glad of their chains.

 

 

[notmyself]

19 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Something I consider daily as I've got the builders in, renovating my kitchen. The oven picture is a great help however

 

An old Persian saying translates to 'a home without an oven is like a home without light' with light meaning love, passion, heart etc.

 

In order to keep on topic the belief known as Christianity and its god concept is heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism which in itself is considered Persian.

 

Also….. [included in this post but not related as a response]

 

A large percentage of Paul's writings are generally accepted as fraudulent but even if they are not he only ever talks about a revealed Jesus. That of a vision. The Mythicists present a good argument but it seems a bit too clear cut I think. That the narrative is obviously more than one person is enough in any case.

 

 

 

[CMNightRider]

5 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

An old Persian saying translates to 'a home without an oven is like a home without light' with light meaning love, passion, heart etc.

 

In order to keep on topic the belief known as Christianity and its god concept is heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism which in itself is considered Persian.

 

Also….. [included in this post but not related as a response]

 

A large percentage of Paul's writings are generally accepted as fraudulent but even if they are not he only ever talks about a revealed Jesus. That of a vision. The Mythicists present a good argument but it seems a bit too clear cut I think. That the narrative is obviously more than one person is enough in any case.

 

 

 

Paul felt deserted by everyone but God.

(2 Timothy 4:9-18)

Throughout Paul’s ministry he suffered trials and persecution for the sake of Christ.  He was stoned, beaten, imprisoned, shipwrecked, and betrayed.  He often went without food, sleep, and shelter.  During his Roman imprisonment, he also felt alone with no other person to support or defend him.  Demas left him because he loved the world.  Alexander did him “a great deal of harm.”  Yet through it all, the Lord stood with him.  Paul was comforted and strengthened by God’s powerful presence.  

 

I would love to sit down with Paul and hear all his stories, find out all those things not recorded in Scripture.  Perhaps he would recount all the Gospel victories and tell me more about the suffering he endured for the name of Christ.  Pain and struggle may have marked his life, but God’s lavish grace sustained him every moment. 

 

Paul’s life stands as a testimony to God’s power and grace working in the lives of His people to carry out His purposes.  The apostle Paul’s last written words, in his second letter to Timothy, reveal the reality of God’s strength made perfect in our weakness (2 Corinthians 12:9????

 

“For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near.  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race,  I have kept the faith.  Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.” (2 Timothy 4:6-8, NIV)

 

[notmyself]

16 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Paul felt deserted by everyone but God.

(2 Timothy 4:9-18)

Throughout Paul’s ministry he suffered trials and persecution for the sake of Christ.  He was stoned, beaten, imprisoned, shipwrecked, and betrayed.  He often went without food, sleep, and shelter.  During his Roman imprisonment, he also felt alone with no other person to support or defend him.  Demas left him because he loved the world.  Alexander did him “a great deal of harm.”  Yet through it all, the Lord stood with him.  Paul was comforted and strengthened by God’s powerful presence.  

 

I would love to sit down with Paul and hear all his stories, find out all those things not recorded in Scripture.  Perhaps he would recount all the Gospel victories and tell me more about the suffering he endured for the name of Christ.  Pain and struggle may have marked his life, but God’s lavish grace sustained him every moment. 

 

Paul’s life stands as a testimony to God’s power and grace working in the lives of His people to carry out His purposes.  The apostle Paul’s last written words, in his second letter to Timothy, reveal the reality of God’s strength made perfect in our weakness (2 Corinthians 12:9????

 

“For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near.  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race,  I have kept the faith.  Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.” (2 Timothy 4:6-8, NIV)

 

 

Given....

 

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, 16 having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. 17 For lit is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.

 

https://www.esv.org/1+Peter+3/

 

….. simply quoting Bible verses would be insufficient.

 

15 “If you love me, keep my commands.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+14:15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

8 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

Given....

 

 

 

 

https://www.esv.org/1+Peter+3/

 

….. simply quoting Bible verses would be insufficient.

 

 

 

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+14:15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"simply quoting Bible verses would be insufficient"

 

The situation would indeed be infinitely more perplexing if GOD,in actual fact,has never heard of Christianity....

[CMNightRider]

One of the most powerful and compelling reasons to believe the Bible is that God has accurately predicted the future throughout history.  God Himself offered this as definitive proof of His sovereignty, saying through the prophet Isaiah, “I am God and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done” (Isaiah 46:10).

 

Among these are the detailed prophecies in the book of Daniel about the rise and fall of world empires, which were fulfilled in amazing detail over a period of several hundred years—you can read about them in The Four Empires of Daniel’s Prophecies .

 

Additionally, Jesus fulfilled dozens of highly specific prophecies when He came as the Messiah in the flesh, and these prophecies were written by numerous authors over a period of over a thousand years leading up to His human life!  A list of Jesus’ prophetic fulfillments can be found in our article Jesus’ Amazing Fulfillment of Prophecy.  Throughout the history of ancient Israel, God repeatedly predicted their future and brought it to pass, and you can find more information about God’s interaction with them in The Rise and Fall of Ancient Israel .

[StreetCowboy]

On 7/6/2019 at 1:01 PM, CMNightRider said:

If you are still struggling with gender confusion issues, praying daily would benefit you far more than posting silly comments. 

Different people pray in different ways.  Perhaps he is hoping that God will speak to him through one of our fellow posters.

[notmyself]

Well nothing new has been put forward though it's always interesting to hear people's interpretation of various scripture. Last I heard there was around 42,000 variants of Christianity. I would argue that the number would be no more and no less than the number who believe in it and have ever believed in it. Granted has 42k sects but what does that even mean to the affirmation toward the concept of the Christian god. All just dribble.

 

Grandad, says the little girl sitting on her father's lap. Where is your Dad she asks. He died princess... before you were born. Where is his dad she added. He died before, her Grandpa says and it goes back forever. An interest for me is why our ancestors went from this to a creator.

 

[offtopic] Oh. and Bible. I've asked or guessed which version because the narrative is not the same. It's like pass the parcel but adding layers rather than taking them away...

 

Pass the parcel is a classic British party game in which a parcel is passed from one person to another.^[1][2][3]

In preparation for the game, a prize (or "gift") is wrapped in a large number of layers of wrapping paper. Usually, each layer is of a different design so they can be easily distinguished. Smaller prizes or mottos may be placed between some or all other layers of wrapping.

During the game, music is played as the parcel is passed around. Whoever is holding the parcel when the music is stopped removes one layer of wrapping and claims any prize found under that layer. The music is then restarted and the game continues until every layer is removed and the main prize claimed.^[4]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_the_parcel

 

Keep taking away layers and maybe there is nothing inside.[/offtopic]

 

 

[jimmyyy]

On 6/26/2019 at 4:01 PM, Skeptic7 said:

Because blatant, willful ignorance and superstition in the 21st Century is ridiculous and unacceptable.

Because many try to legislate and infringe on others rights based on their nonexistent god's dogma.

Because it wouldn't be much of a thread if we just let the nonsense be spewed ad nauseam.

BECAUSE IT'S FUN! 

Its not up to you to decide what is acceptable to me a USA citizen.  Good luck with that. 

[jimmyyy]

On 6/26/2019 at 4:01 PM, Skeptic7 said:

Because blatant, willful ignorance and superstition in the 21st Century is ridiculous and unacceptable.

Because many try to legislate and infringe on others rights based on their nonexistent god's dogma.

Because it wouldn't be much of a thread if we just let the nonsense be spewed ad nauseam.

BECAUSE IT'S FUN! 

No one here is infringing on your rights, yet you seem to be demanding we give up our faith.  That in my case is not gong to happen. 

On 6/28/2019 at 4:14 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously?

If a being can create life, the universe and everything, 6,500 languages are a doddle to learn.

Do you know why there are 6500 languages do you know why god did this?  People were disobeying the word of god.  Thus you get 6500 languages, most likely your relatives i presume. 

On 6/28/2019 at 5:50 PM, Skeptic7 said:

IN THE BEGINNING...MAN CREATED GOD ????

 

Dude...I don't accept any of these childish, ridiculous, moronic claims. Nor do you. You're just too scared and so brainwashed to think otherwise. I actually feel really sorry for you. You're wasting your one and only life on a myth...a fairy tale...a lie. I think you need to get laid. You certainly need to grow up. Go out and enjoy some debauchery up there in CM! 

I fully accept god created man.  You don't have the right to tell me what i can or can not believe.  It is not up to you to judge man, that is God's job.  

[CMNightRider]

Historians confirm what the Bible says about Jesus.

Not only do we have well-preserved copies of the original manuscripts, we also have testimony from both Jewish and Roman historians.

 

The gospels report that Jesus of Nazareth performed many miracles, was executed by the Romans, and rose from the dead. Numerous ancient historians back the Bible's account of the life of Jesus and his followers:

 

Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120), an historian of first-century Rome, is considered one of the most accurate historians of the ancient world.⁸ An excerpt from Tacitus tells us that the Roman emperor Nero "inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class...called Christians. ...Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus...."⁹

 

Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian (A.D. 38-100), wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities. From Josephus, "we learn that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected."¹⁰

 

Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, and Thallus also wrote about Christian worship and persecution that is consistent with New Testament accounts.

 

Even the Jewish Talmud, certainly not biased toward Jesus, concurs about the major events of his life. From the Talmud, "we learn that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, gathered disciples, made blasphemous claims about himself, and worked miracles, but these miracles are attributed to sorcery and not to God."¹¹

 

This is remarkable information considering that most ancient historians focused on political and military leaders, not on obscure rabbis from distant provinces of the Roman Empire. Yet ancient historians (Jews, Greeks and Romans) confirm the major events that are presented in the New Testament, even though they were not believers themselves.

[notmyself]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

Not only do we have well-preserved copies of the original manuscripts

 

Read what you wish out of your Holy texts but what you have said is a well known and accepted falsehood. 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:28 PM, notmyself said:

Well nothing new has been put forward though it's always interesting to hear people's interpretation of various scripture. Last I heard there was around 42,000 variants of Christianity. I would argue that the number would be no more and no less than the number who believe in it and have ever believed in it. Granted has 42k sects but what does that even mean to the affirmation toward the concept of the Christian god. All just dribble.

 

Grandad, says the little girl sitting on her father's lap. Where is your Dad she asks. He died princess... before you were born. Where is his dad she added. He died before, her Grandpa says and it goes back forever. An interest for me is why our ancestors went from this to a creator.

 

[offtopic] Oh. and Bible. I've asked or guessed which version because the narrative is not the same. It's like pass the parcel but adding layers rather than taking them away...

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_the_parcel

 

Keep taking away layers and maybe there is nothing inside.[/offtopic]

 

 

Given "God" is unknowable by humans, it's wrong, IMO to say there is nothing inside the parcel as we don't know where to find "God" in the first place. If we did know where to look, we'd actually know that "God" existed. All non believers can say in certainty is that in THEIR opinion "God" does not exist. 

Where the non believers go wrong, IMO, is that they ascribe similarity to humanity to "God", when "God" is nothing like humans. If "God" can create life the universe and everything, s/he/it can be anything s/he/it wants to be. 

 

[CMNightRider]

Is Jesus God, as he claimed?

 

Jesus' supreme evidence of deity was his own resurrection from the dead.  Five times in the course of his life, Jesus clearly predicted he would die, and in what specific way he would be killed, and that three days later, after being buried, he would rise from the dead.

 

Surely this was the great test.  It was a claim that was easy to verify.  It would either happen or not.  It would either confirm his stated identity or destroy it.  And significant for you and me, Jesus' rising from the dead would verify or make laughable statements such as these:

 

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me."²³  "I am the light of the world.  He who follows me will not live in darkness, but will have the light of life."²⁴  For those who believe in him, "I give them eternal life..."²⁵

So by his own words, he offers this proof,  ""The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he is killed, after three days he will rise."²⁶

[partington]

6 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Is Jesus God, as he claimed?

 

Jesus' supreme evidence of deity was his own resurrection from the dead.  Five times in the course of his life, Jesus clearly predicted he would die, and in what specific way he would be killed, and that three days later, after being buried, he would rise from the dead.

 

Surely this was the great test.  It was a claim that was easy to verify.  It would either happen or not.  It would either confirm his stated identity or destroy it.  And significant for you and me, Jesus' rising from the dead would verify or make laughable statements such as these:

 

"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me."²³  "I am the light of the world.  He who follows me will not live in darkness, but will have the light of life."²⁴  For those who believe in him, "I give them eternal life..."²⁵

So by his own words, he offers this proof,  ""The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he is killed, after three days he will rise."²⁶

The first gospel, Mark, was written around AD 70 , that is about 40 years after the death of Jesus.

 This is about as long after Jesus' death as today is after the death of Elvis.

 

 If I wrote an account of  Elvis' life today, and included in it five separate occasions where I claimed he had  prophesied the exact mode of his death ("you know fellas, I say unto you,  I'm gonna die on the toilet, in a rather tasteless mansion")  many years before, how on earth would you be able to tell whether I had just made it up, given that I already know what happened to him?

 

The point of a prophecy is to write it before the event it prophesies happened, not forty years afterwards!