Latest Retirement Extension a Warning .

[newnative]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Show me where it mentions 3 months anywhere in the order to than for the 3 months after.

The first extension part is gone completely from the order.

Filing date is the day you apply for an extension not the first one you did years ago.

    I'm just attempting to figure out the Immigration Officer's actions if she is using Royal Thai Police No. 35/2561 dated January 2019, which was posted on the first page of this thread.  If there are other documents that you are referring to, I don't have them.

    Clause 4 states, "At least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have fund (SIC) deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800,000."   If the Immigration Officer is using this police order, perhaps she is interpreting Clause 4 as 2 months for initial filers and 3 months for extensions.  '3 months after being granted permission' is rather imprecise and could possibly be interpreted as either keeping the money in the bank for 3 months after approval or possibly could be interpreted as requiring 3 months seasoning for the next extension, after first being granted permission.

      Initially, it would seem that the '3 months after being granted permission' would be referring to keeping the money in the bank for 3 months.  However, later in the clause we get: "The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission..."  Why is this stated again if a previous sentence already covers this?  Confusing.  One IO may think it mean this and another IO may think it means that.   Seems a safe bet to get your 800,000 in at least 3 months before your extension.

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, saminoz said:

Hi 55Jay,

might I ask why you changed form marriage to retirement please?

I turned 50.  Less paperwork.  Instant approval. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by 55Jay

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, khastan said:

I have no idea if it is 2 months or 3. One thing is for certain though if TI say 3 than that is what's required. I know in future I will make sure that I have the funds in a Thai Bank 3 months prior to application.

Since you’re using the combo method for your current extension, one thing that I think you’ll need to be absolutely crystal clear on is how much of the 400k bank balance which you have accumulated will need to remain untouched in your account for the next 3 months. Logically, this would appear to be at least 200k (based on at least 400k of a full 800k balance needing to be retained for this period) - but, this being Thailand, this isn’t, of course, a given!

 

Also, how does your local immigration office intend subsequently to check your compliance with the post-3 months minimum balance (however much this amounts to in your case) requirement? As part of the 90-day reporting process, or not until you next apply for an extension in 2020?
 

[khastan]

Ojas

I have together with the income letter a total of more than 900.000 baht. I understood it to be 800.000 that had to be kept in a bank for the next three and then after that you can spend 400.000 of it then the amount can not go below 400.000 until three months prior to next application which has to be topped up for three months to 800.000 again. I presume that has long has the amount in bank together with the income letter does not fall below 800.000 for the next three months that once the extension is granted then I can use anything over the 800.000 baht for living expenses. However who knows


Has for your other question I have no idea and will only find out when I go back to Immigration later this afternoon. However I will keep everyone informed in due course.

Edited April 18, 2019 by khastan

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No

Just an officer that is not aware of the new rules.

Thanks, so many officers like this.

[connda]

22 hours ago, khastan said:

She said not yet three months must come back tomorrow. the 18th. I then insisted the rules have changed now and it"s only two months. She then consulted some paperwork and said no two months for first extension and three months for every extension afterwards. I insisted this was incorrect but she was adamant. The upshot is I have been told to go again to bank tomorrow and obtain another two letters with the 18th and try again.

This will be screwed up forever based on the fact that no two immigration districts enforce the national immigration laws the same.  It seems that any petty bureaucrat can make up and enforce their own rules.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, ujayujay said:

Never say to a IO, shes/hes wrong.....they never do wrong????????

I told an officer he was wrong the last time I did a 90 day report in person, he went to see his boss his boss.

When he returned, he handed me back my passport and said "report back in 90 days" and no apology.

[connda]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No

Just an officer that is not aware of the new rules.

But an officer who can deny your extension none the less and leave you in limbo when you legally qualify for the extension. 

[natway09]

Which pretty well backs up the advantage of leaving it in a Thai interest bearing account all year.

Just treat it as your "deposit " of living in Thailand.  

[connda]

17 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Four mentions 3 months twice. Once on line 2 and again on line 5.

 

Ubonjoe.  Is there a link to those rule in Thai?  Perhaps Kastan can print out the Thai, have a native Thai lightlight that section of the law in yellow highlighter, and then return to the office for another try. 

And if they refuse again declaring that law isn't really the law - what options does the extension applicant have?

[55Jay]

21 minutes ago, connda said:

Ubonjoe.  Is there a link to those rule in Thai?  Perhaps Kastan can print out the Thai, have a native Thai lightlight that section of the law in yellow highlighter, and then return to the office for another try. 

And if they refuse again declaring that law isn't really the law - what options does the extension applicant have?

Possibly take the former Police Order as well and highlight the relevant sections in both - diplomatically of course.

[jesimps]

22 hours ago, khastan said:

My Income statement was for only 400.000 baht unfortunately, the rest of the money I transferred on the 18th January from my UK bank to my Thai Bank. Hence 1 day short of three months so refused.

"Hence 1 day short of three months so refused."

 

They should reinstate the death penalty for by-the-book people. Reminds me of when I was in the army and had to try to deal with the Military Police.

[ubonjoe]

30 minutes ago, connda said:

Is there a link to those rule in Thai? 

All the latest changes are posted in this pinned topic in English and Thai. Laws, regulations, Police Orders, etc

[connda]

3 hours ago, khastan said:

scubascuba3

Ubonjoe that was my understanding also. When I explained that it was not three months but two now she admitted to not knowing and I was surprised when she had to look the matter up.
I wonder if it's worthwhile ringing the Immigration hotline 1178 at that point to get clarification for the lady. Nothing to lose I guess.

I had thought of doing that I have also printed out the relevant page in the new police order in Thai and English and highlighted the relevant paragraph but what will it prove. They will not accept that they have made a mistake no matter what evidence is put in front of them . ujayujay has quite rightly stated in a earlier post " Never say to a IO, shes/hes wrong.....they never do wrong"

If you have the pages printed out in Thai and English, then yes - I personally would go back to the office and attempt to get the issue clarified by way of the actual law.  If they refuse then call 1178.  Then there those who will say that "they will make your life difficult if you do that."  They are already making your life difficult.  They are suppose to follow their own laws.  If they are not following their own laws - that's a problem.  You qualify and meet the criteria - but are not allowed to stay?  That's a problem too. 

 

BTW, how are you staying here if you extension has been rejected?  Just curious?

Edited April 18, 2019 by connda

[phuketrichard]

2 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

I will season for three months before extension for all future extensions............just in case.

my extension is up July 18th,

My 800,000 is in the bank since april 10th, BUT will go in after June 20th ( so 2 months in the bank and 1 month before expiration) if they say no, i can than go back in after the 12th of july.  ????

 

so ur going to leave 800,000 for 6 months/year?

This is my last extension,  off to Cambodia next year
 

Edited April 18, 2019 by phuketrichard

[Dingo1170]

20 hours ago, khastan said:

baansgr

Did she have a whistle.....crazy is crazy and there lies the issue of so many leaving.

No whistle and yes I agree fully with your comment
 

Bring back The Jokester

[connda]

Op.  I just read the Thai version and it explicitly says 2 month before and 3 months after 'request for extension'.  
If it was me?  I'd print that off, if you don't read Thai have a friend highlight that paragraph and underline the "2" and the "3", and ask them to please provide you with an extension based on current Thai immigration law.
Hopefully you're not afraid the immigration officer will lose face and make your life difficult.  Heck, Prayut would be the first one to point out, "It's The Law!"

[JackThompson]

24 minutes ago, connda said:

Op.  I just read the Thai version and it explicitly says 2 month before and 3 months after 'request for extension'.  
If it was me?  I'd print that off, if you don't read Thai have a friend highlight that paragraph and underline the "2" and the "3", and ask them to please provide you with an extension based on current Thai immigration law.
Hopefully you're not afraid the immigration officer will lose face and make your life difficult.  Heck, Prayut would be the first one to point out, "It's The Law!"

The OP can get it with the incorrect 3-mo rule the next day, so not worth ticking off the IO by proving they are full of it.  They would probably just fall back to a "we can do what we want here" (at each office) position, in any case - and could only make problems for the future.

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, phuketrichard said:

my extension is up July 18th,

My 800,000 is in the bank since april 10th, BUT will go in after June 20th ( so 2 months in the bank and 1 month before expiration) if they say no, i can than go back in after the 12th of july.  ????

 

so ur going to leave 800,000 for 6 months/year?

This is my last extension,  off to Cambodia next year
 

God speed sir and good luck. The right decision. Many more will follow. ????

[khastan]

Just go back. I am pleased to tell you all that Retirement extension successful using Decembers income letter and money in the bank. There was no mention whatsoever or any new papers given to me regarding any new rules about keeping funds in the bank etc. The only thing extra that I had to sign was the acknowledgment of visa overstay penalties, a form which I have filled in already three times previously. The only new requirement for me was a picture of me in the bedroom which they insisted on.

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

my extension is up July 18th,

My 800,000 is in the bank since april 10th, BUT will go in after June 20th ( so 2 months in the bank and 1 month before expiration) if they say no, i can than go back in after the 12th of july.  ????

 

so ur going to leave 800,000 for 6 months/year?

This is my last extension,  off to Cambodia next year
 

Will be leaving it in for 12 months of the year. Will open another account for living expenses, so that there are no accidents with the amount going under.

Also, the wife will be able to access the 800k with my ATM card on my death, as UK probate can take 3-4 months.

[MickeyDelux]

 

I really feel bad for these poor folks who have so many problems with the immigration laws. They undoubtedly have few options and are barely able to understand the rules Thailand has put in place let alone follow them.

[MikeN]

4 hours ago, khastan said:

Smedly
That is entirely up to you and keep it there above 800k for 3 months after your approval date then 400k for the following 12 months - if you don't you may have problems with your next renewal.

Thank you for the advice, that is fully what I intend to do.
 

I think you will have a problem if you followed that literally.  It should read 400k for 7 months then back up to 800k for the 2 months before next year’s application.

 Or 6 months/3 months according to Nong Khai apparently, but certainly not 400k for 12 months.

[smedly]

2 minutes ago, MikeN said:

but certainly not 400k for 12 months.

I did mention that in my post and most intelligent people would understand what I said  but if you want to be pedantic about it how is this 

 

you must keep 400k balance as long as you intend to get continuous yearly extensions - that could be 12 months 24 months 5 years 10 years or whatever - increasing the balance to 800k for 5 months - 2 months before and 3 months after your application, your balance must never go below 400k - not 7 months not 12 months...……. "not ever"

 

 

[MikeN]

^ Kastan said he fully intends to keep 400k for 12 months, I am merely pointing out that this is not enough come renewal time, in less than 12 months.

 Are you acting Thai, and worried about losing face because you made a simple typo error ? No need to get your panties in a knot.

Edited April 18, 2019 by MikeN

[Fairynuff]

23 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

two lessons; always include contingency in your plans, the IO is always right (even when they're wrong).

 

this has served me well and allowed hassle/stress free travel in over 50 countries.

 

 

I think we should all travel with you

[smedly]

34 minutes ago, MikeN said:

^ Kastan said he fully intends to keep 400k for 12 months, I am merely pointing out that this is not enough come renewal time, in less than 12 months.

 Are you acting Thai, and worried about losing face because you made a simple typo error ? No need to get your panties in a knot.

if you read the thread you would have seen I posted this several times already

 

anyway

[Joinaman]

Just got back from immigration in Nakhon Phanom, they checked all my bank details and then stated that i failed, by one day, to transfer 800,000 into my Thai bank/ When i pointed out the money arrived 1 day short of 3 months, not the 2 months as now required , she went of to consult with other officers. She then came back and said, its 3 months for existing , 2 months is only for first time visas, but she would help me out . If i go back next week, one day late for my visa, this will make it exactly 3 months for my money in the bank, and if i get all new paperwork from the bank, cos the old bank statements will be out of date ?, and also pay a 500 baht fine for being late, she will issue me with a new visa

After a lot of confusion and questions regarding the change from the 800,00 in the bank to the 65,000 a month income she finally agreed i could change, as long as the money in the bank never went below 400,000 ? and that i still could not spend any of the existing 800,00 for 3 months. Could not get an answer why i had to keep 400,00 while doing the income route, and was adamant that i could not spend any money for 3 months too

Shes a very nice lady, but it is hard to keep cool when they say things that are wrong, but will not admit it

Have printed off the 2 month rule for the bank , and will give it to her next week, even though it will probably be ignored and i will still have to pay the fine

Maybe its time to think of other options next year, maybe move to Vietnam, use an agent, 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, MickeyDelux said:

 

I really feel bad for these poor folks who have so many problems with the immigration laws. They undoubtedly have few options and are barely able to understand the rules Thailand has put in place let alone follow them.

More like Thai immigration doesn't understand or know how to enforce their OWN rules at so many offices. You're very bright it seems -- tell us the mechanical details of a combo application without an embassy letter done today that will work at all offices. Hmm. You can't. Nobody can, How are we supposed to follow "rules" like that? 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

Just got back from immigration in Nakhon Phanom, they checked all my bank details and then stated that i failed, by one day, to transfer 800,000 into my Thai bank/ When i pointed out the money arrived 1 day short of 3 months, not the 2 months as now required , she went of to consult with other officers. She then came back and said, its 3 months for existing , 2 months is only for first time visas, but she would help me out . If i go back next week, one day late for my visa, this will make it exactly 3 months for my money in the bank, and if i get all new paperwork from the bank, cos the old bank statements will be out of date ?, and also pay a 500 baht fine for being late, she will issue me with a new visa

After a lot of confusion and questions regarding the change from the 800,00 in the bank to the 65,000 a month income she finally agreed i could change, as long as the money in the bank never went below 400,000 ? and that i still could not spend any of the existing 800,00 for 3 months. Could not get an answer why i had to keep 400,00 while doing the income route, and was adamant that i could not spend any money for 3 months too

Shes a very nice lady, but it is hard to keep cool when they say things that are wrong, but will not admit it

Have printed off the 2 month rule for the bank , and will give it to her next week, even though it will probably be ignored and i will still have to pay the fine

Maybe its time to think of other options next year, maybe move to Vietnam, use an agent, 

Unfreaking believable. Maybe you can try out that help number I've heard about before. I'm sure they will love to be reported on as not even know such a simple and BASIC thing about the new rules.