Low-income households struggle under rapidly mounting debt

[saigonsunset]

1 hour ago, Prairieboy said:

Buy a fancy car, two motorcycles - mortgage their house and land not realizing that it has to be paid back at some point.  The banks are happy loan the money with the view to seizing the assets in the near future.

 

Above might be true for Bangkok middle class white colour workers but hardly for the workers referred to in the article. They are the ones pressed like sardines in the back of a truck or driving to low skilled office jobs for hours on end in public buses. Imagine having to live in Bangkok on 15k with rent for a room, 1-2 childen to feed, school fees, medical bills so on and so forth. I guess it takes a few months or even years but building up 150k debts is an easy thing once interest rates and penalties start kicking in.

[alant]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

99% of the people have less than a third of the nations wealth, the largest disparity in the world, what are they doing about it? not a lot.

 

 

 

promoting it

[Sonhia]

Tourism is up. The economy is strong. Thais are travelling more, according to Visa. Toursim forecast to get higher.

 

All BS.

 

Thais and Thailand are experiencing difficulty, I believe it is going to get much worse with foreigners being targeted more violently too.

[Mitkof Island]

3 minutes ago, Sonhia said:

Tourism is up. The economy is strong. Thais are travelling more, according to Visa. Toursim forecast to get higher.

 

All BS.

 

Thais and Thailand are experiencing difficulty, I believe it is going to get much worse with foreigners being targeted more violently too.

And look how the foreigners are disrespecting the Thais in numerous ways. Think there might be a connection? I think so. Been here going on nineteen years. Never had much of any problems with the Thais. Treat the Thais like shit. Dress like a pig, walk around drunk half naked expect for the worst

[Sticky Wicket]

1 minute ago, Mitkof Island said:

And look how the foreigners are disrespecting the Thais in numerous ways. Think there might be a connection? I think so. Been here going on nineteen years. Never had much of any problems with the Thais. Treat the Thais like shit. Dress like a pig, walk around drunk half naked expect for the worst

What a load of tosh. 

[seajae]

maybe if they didnt have to have the latest phone etc or a better car/bike it wouldnt happen, problem is they refuse to live within their means or budget their money. I grew up in a very poor family after my father died, no govt help back then so we did things hard, never anything new only second hand/used, seems thais dont want to have to do this. They simply borrow and dont pay it back, no one to blame but themselves in many cases.

[Khaeng Mak]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

My impression is that nowadays very little credit is available through any channel. No one wants to lend anyone any money. Even the most supposedly 'well-to-do' farmers in my area seem to be drowning in debt. I was trying to get hold of a guy down the road to see if he wanted to rent 5 rai of land. He had his phone turned off for days on end, and when I finally stopped by his house, his wife told me the reason was because he was dodging creditors. There used to be a loanshark working our area, but he seems to have been scared off because people were borrrowing money and then going to the police to complain about the interest rates they were paying.

 

I'm working on what I've dubbed the "chainsaw" economic indicator. People are so desperate for cash they are foraging for wood and cutting down trees every chance they get. The sound of chainsaws has filled the air in recent months. The early rains have triggered early planting activity, but drought fears are very real, and there's not much enthusiasm in the air. Just about the only thing planted anymore are  year-round crops like sugar and manioc which can better handle unpredictable rainfall. With rainfall so iffy, even early season corn is a crapshoot; forget about late season planting. More and more kids seem to be fleeing town at ever earlier ages, whereas before they'd mostly hang around until they hit 18. Just the old timers remain eeking out a living for what I often wonder might be their final planting season. Migrant labor brought in from Isaan to do the harvest. There's a total absence of affluence up and down the food chain, all the way up from day laborers to the largest farmers and shops in town.

I live in a tiny village by the sea. I have been here for many years.  There is a core of fisherman with boats who have always fished. As have their fathers, and their father's father's. 

 

But there is a growing amount of (recreational) fishers appearing. Men and women.  And now it is commonplace to see a pickup truck arrive with 5 or 6 people on board who will fish all day and put their catch in an icebox to take home to a village away from the coast.

 

There is also a number of species that in the past no one sought to catch.  The hound fish (crocodile needle fish) is one such fish.  These days I see people regularly fishing for this species as it is one of the few that is still in relative abundance despite a collapsed local fishery.

 

Your Chainsaw indicator adumbrates the requirement to revert back to hunting and gathering in order to survive. That is certainly what I am seeing with this new boom in Thai recreational fishers.

 

So with your leave, and proper academic reference of course, I will expand upon your theory and suggest that it is more aptly named the SUBSISTENCE INDICATOR.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

School fees have to be paid now, you can't save up for them.

My son's government junior school wants 6-10k in the next few weeks, and my daughter's uni fees are around 12k, not a problem for me, but the locals have extreme problems finding that much.

Shame that the government couldn't provide for free school frees for the primary education. Singapore and Malaysia provide free education including school fees for primary education. The budget allocation seem out of whack favouring the military. 

[rott]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

Uneducated people prone to impulse and desire and those with the inability to forgo reward always tend to have these problems. I suspect this mirrors western countries well. Nevertheless, this could be handled in a high school course. Managing money is a critical life skill I'd not really paid attention to until I was well into my mind 20s.

 

Thailand is a very impulse, consumer driven society.

 

Money so easily flows from lenders as creditors are on the hook often times forever. Bankruptcy laws here are criminal

 

It just perpetuates neo feudal society.

What are the bankeuptcy laws here?

 

Are they published anywhere in English?

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Shame that the government couldn't provide for free school frees for the primary education. Singapore and Malaysia provide free education including school fees for primary education. The budget allocation seem out of whack favouring the military. 

Government schools are fully funded.

The school adds compulsory extras to the fees (pay or go to school elsewhere), so it's local corruption that's the problem, not the government.

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Shame that the government couldn't provide for free school frees for the primary education. Singapore and Malaysia provide free education including school fees for primary education. The budget allocation seem out of whack favouring the military. 

It is free, but in name only. After you have paid the fees it is free. If you are really on the poverty line and can provide proof it really is free.

[rott]

11 minutes ago, Mitkof Island said:

And look how the foreigners are disrespecting the Thais in numerous ways. Think there might be a connection? I think so. Been here going on nineteen years. Never had much of any problems with the Thais. Treat the Thais like shit. Dress like a pig, walk around drunk half naked expect for the worst

You are presumably speaking from your own experience, which certainly ain't the same as mine. Possibly you are speaking of a small percentage of short term tourists in a very small section of Pattaya. There is a lot more to farangs in Thailand than that.

[Machiavelli]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

My impression is that nowadays very little credit is available through any channel. No one wants to lend anyone any money. Even the most supposedly 'well-to-do' farmers in my area seem to be drowning in debt. I was trying to get hold of a guy down the road to see if he wanted to rent 5 rai of land. He had his phone turned off for days on end, and when I finally stopped by his house, his wife told me the reason was because he was dodging creditors. There used to be a loanshark working our area, but he seems to have been scared off because people were borrrowing money and then going to the police to complain about the interest rates they were paying.

 

I'm working on what I've dubbed the "chainsaw" economic indicator. People are so desperate for cash they are foraging for wood and cutting down trees every chance they get. The sound of chainsaws has filled the air in recent months. The early rains have triggered early planting activity, but drought fears are very real, and there's not much enthusiasm in the air. Just about the only thing planted anymore are  year-round crops like sugar and manioc which can better handle unpredictable rainfall. With rainfall so iffy, even early season corn is a crapshoot; forget about late season planting. More and more kids seem to be fleeing town at ever earlier ages, whereas before they'd mostly hang around until they hit 18. Just the old timers remain eeking out a living for what I often wonder might be their final planting season. Migrant labor brought in from Isaan to do the harvest. There's a total absence of affluence up and down the food chain, all the way up from day laborers to the largest farmers and shops in town.

I wish I could write like you. I would have a blog or something. It's so refreshing. 

[Khaeng Mak]

37 minutes ago, Machiavelli said:

I wish I could write like you. I would have a blog or something. It's so refreshing. 

Anyone can write. But editing requires a good deal of talent.

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory troll post and a reply has been removed

[Cadbury]

In my opinion this is just another negative key indicator of the coming collapse of the Thai economy. Having big fat foreign reserves wont help these unfortunate people nor will it ultimately help the economy because eventually it will be swallowed up to pay national debt created by umpteen HS rail links, waste and corruption, submarines and other unnecessary military hardware while the needy and education and health services suffer.

The waste caused by administrative incompetence, procrastination and junta self indulgence must be staggering. They can't even manage to conduct an election properly, but perhaps that was by design.

They lay claim to the most polluted city in the world and the country with the second highest road toll at the same time it is progressively being turned into a garbage dump. Add to that the administrative corruption where staff and management heartlessly steal the entitlements of the destitute, aged and handicapped.

Having clueless military economists running the country only helps the 67% extremely wealthy. The old money moguls and the well heeled nouveau riche are their advisers and since the generals know little about economics they take their advice about almost everything. The two together are effectively a self serving mutual partnership working for the betterment and enrichment of each; and stuff the rest.

One day the junta house of cards will come tumbling down.

 

 

[allanpatty]

Totally incompetent corrupt junta that fakes an election and brings charges against its opponents ! A downward spiral that will eventually have dire consequences


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Cake Monster]

4 hours ago, mikebell said:

How do they get this deep in debt on 15,000 a month?

Its really quite easy when you have big eyes and small pockets.

10 Years ago, a large percentage of Thai people hankered after a Refrigerator or a half decent TV set.

Now ! they hanker after Cars, and Smart Phones. Its not good for saving " face " if you buy a second hand Car, or a Phone costing 5,00 Baft. Thais have to have a new Car, and a Phone costing 20,00 baht or more to save face.

Saving face results in many people having huge debts they are unable to service, and the main cause of this is a poor lending strategy from the Financial Sector, who are lending to people with little or no tangible assets to their name.

People live in 2000 Baht / Month rented rooms, and have new cars parked outside,and they probably only earn about 12,000 Baht a Month, not the 15,000 as you state

 

 

[Khaeng Mak]

12 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

Its really quite easy when you have big eyes and small pockets.

10 Years ago, a large percentage of Thai people hankered after a Refrigerator or a half decent TV set.

Now ! they hanker after Cars, and Smart Phones. Its not good for saving " face " if you buy a second hand Car, or a Phone costing 5,00 Baft. Thais have to have a new Car, and a Phone costing 20,00 baht or more to save face.

Saving face results in many people having huge debts they are unable to service, and the main cause of this is a poor lending strategy from the Financial Sector, who are lending to people with little or no tangible assets to their name.

People live in 2000 Baht / Month rented rooms, and have new cars parked outside,and they probably only earn about 12,000 Baht a Month, not the 15,000 as you state

 

 

It is entirely the government's fault.  How come the average Thai cannot get a mortgage to buy or build a 1 million baht house? But those same people can get a loan to buy a 1 million baht plus car or truck.

[JAG]

4 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

99% of the people have less than a third of the nations wealth, the largest disparity in the world, what are they doing about it? not a lot.

 

 

 

I would say that the 1% are ensuring that this proportion is maintained, if not improved (in their benefit).

[billd766]

45 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

In my opinion this is just another negative key indicator of the coming collapse of the Thai economy. Having big fat foreign reserves wont help these unfortunate people nor will it ultimately help the economy because eventually it will be swallowed up to pay national debt created by umpteen HS rail links, waste and corruption, submarines and other unnecessary military hardware while the needy and education and health services suffer.

The waste caused by administrative incompetence, procrastination and junta self indulgence must be staggering. They can't even manage to conduct an election properly, but perhaps that was by design.

They lay claim to the most polluted city in the world and the country with the second highest road toll at the same time it is progressively being turned into a garbage dump. Add to that the administrative corruption where staff and management heartlessly steal the entitlements of the destitute, aged and handicapped.

Having clueless military economists running the country only helps the 67% extremely wealthy. The old money moguls and the well heeled nouveau riche are their advisers and since the generals know little about economics they take their advice about almost everything. The two together are effectively a self serving mutual partnership working for the betterment and enrichment of each; and stuff the rest.

One day the junta house of cards will come tumbling down.

 

 

The sooner the better I hope.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

And look how the foreigners are disrespecting the Thais in numerous ways. Think there might be a connection? I think so. Been here going on nineteen years. Never had much of any problems with the Thais. Treat the Thais like shit. Dress like a pig, walk around drunk half naked expect for the worst

I think that rather depends where you are; at the risks of upsetting some Pattaya and Lower Sukhumwit in Bangkok?

I can't speak for Phuket as I have never been there.

 

When it comes down to the possibility of repercussions against "foreigners" I suspect that it would (if it happens) be simmilarly geographically concentrated on the more ostentatiously wealthy enclaves.

[gunderhill]

6 hours ago, JAG said:

 

Says a man who probably wants for nothing.

Says a  man who saved for it and worked hard for it over 70hrs a  week over 40 years then ...yes. 

You get nowt for owt, people  need to remember  that.

[Lacessit]

It's taken me a few years to educate my Thai GF debt is bad. She understands it now, as well as the concept of delayed gratification. She now also understands buying secondhand can save a lot of money.

The Thai obsession with buying everything new is why many households are in over their heads.

Personally, I don't care about impressing my neighbours and friends with my possessions. IMHO those who do are as shallow as a mud puddle.

 

 

[Krataiboy]

7 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Was it not just yesterday we read that 2 in 3 workers were happy? I guess they have a morbid sense of happiness. Good luck and stay happy!

Read another way, one in three workers are not happy. That's quite a lot of Land of Smiles folk with nothing to smile about.

[mommysboy]

6 hours ago, mikebell said:

How do they get this deep in debt on 15,000 a month?

Kids cost.  Not many people can live on rice and water.  If you are, say 5000 baht short every month, then that alone is 60,000 baht a year debt.

[mommysboy]

54 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's taken me a few years to educate my Thai GF debt is bad. She understands it now, as well as the concept of delayed gratification. She now also understands buying secondhand can save a lot of money.

The Thai obsession with buying everything new is why many households are in over their heads.

Personally, I don't care about impressing my neighbours and friends with my possessions. IMHO those who do are as shallow as a mud puddle.

 

 

You get like that when you're old.  But was it the same when you were younger?  Besides, it's really just a narrative you are keen on believing.  True, you can only spend so much, but it's also true that you can only live on so little.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, saigonsunset said:

Above might be true for Bangkok middle class white colour workers but hardly for the workers referred to in the article. They are the ones pressed like sardines in the back of a truck or driving to low skilled office jobs for hours on end in public buses. Imagine having to live in Bangkok on 15k with rent for a room, 1-2 childen to feed, school fees, medical bills so on and so forth. I guess it takes a few months or even years but building up 150k debts is an easy thing once interest rates and penalties start kicking in.

I got out of teaching because the salary was the same as 20 years ago, and you'll hear much the same refrain from the common Thai. Meanwhile costs have escalated. You read so many comments that blame Thais, but the truth is the modern economy is failing fast- throughout the world. 

 

Businesses aren't making money. My brother in law's for example has failed completely because big firm's didn't pay him.  There is GDP as calculated by the Government, and that which is lived by ordinary people. The latter isn't the 3.8 quoted, unless you prefix that with a minus.

[Zack61]

As my parents told me many times "You can only spend it once." This is a concept many find difficult to comprehend. It is not a problem only in Thailand but unfortunately when you are on 300 baht per day much harder to adhere to. Victims of capitalism and consumerism are mainly, if not always, the low paid and here in Thailand they are also victims of their religion with an expectation that they donate what they can't afford for that "necessary" new temple or whatever. All on 300 baht per day.

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

You get like that when you're old.  But was it the same when you were younger?  Besides, it's really just a narrative you are keen on believing.  True, you can only spend so much, but it's also true that you can only live on so little.

Yes it was. I have never been into fashion or showy possessions. I buy things to serve a purpose.

I wouldn't say I live on little. I live as well as I want to.

My father taught me to avoid debt, and his teaching has served me well for many years. My son has taught me the most valuable thing anyone can possess is time.

It's not a narrative I am keen on believing. I live by it, and enjoy life as a result.

Actually, Charles Dickens' character Mr. Micawber put it best.