Worried about the council votes lost, May and Corbyn will make a deal, quietly tell the EU that Article 50 is revoked, but not to tell anyone, and let everyone keep arguing until October 31st, when we all wake up and find out that Brexit was cancelled in, and by, May in what will come to be known as the great Bru-turn.

8 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

After 3 wasted years, and British democracy in the worst state in 800 years, I hope May can not push through her Brexit in name only in the next couple of weeks. I want to see Farage and his Brexit party wipe the floor with the establishment on the 22nd May. As well as totally humiliating the liberal elites that thought they could overturn the referendum result, this will further inspire other nations to quit the sinking EU experiment. Ireland, Italy, Poland and others are all looking more Euro-skeptic.

 This is going to be fun.

 

Farage and his bunch of ragamuffins are likely to do as well in the May EU elections as UKIP did in the council elections.

England scoreboard

PARTY	COUNCILLORS	CHANGE +/-
Conservative	3564	-1330
Labour	2021	-84
Liberal Democrat	1351	+704
Green	265	+194
UKIP	31	-145
Others	1178	+661

Councillors change compared with 2015

 

What I don’t understand is why May is still pressing on with this brexit nonsense after the beating the Tories received in the elections a few days ago. Sure, Labour also lost, but not nearly as much as the Tories (and UKIP as well, by the way). The most telling thing was that the Green Party and the Lib-Dems, both very much pro-EU and ant-brexit, won considarably, especially the Lib-Dems, so maybe there’s still hope after all .....

Wasn't aware there were any top conservatives left ????

17 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Worried about the council votes lost, May and Corbyn will make a deal, quietly tell the EU that Article 50 is revoked, but not to tell anyone, and let everyone keep arguing until October 31st, when we all wake up and find out that Brexit was cancelled in, and by, May in what will come to be known as the great Bru-turn.

I wouldn't put anything past them but revocation would probably require an Act of Parliament so not easy to hide.

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Looks like it. They are really panicking now but the "deal" is the same as a surrender. A government that has the best interests of the UK in mind would insist on restarting negotiations - those that have already happened were obviously not even close to even handed - if the EU refuse then we should just go. 

There is once again some irony in what is happening.  As expected the Conservatives and to a lesser extent the Labour party were given a bloody nose by the electorate.  And rightly so because both sides have thoroughly screwed this whole Brexit thing up.  They have failed both camps and that is where the irony comes in.  Overwhelmingly people  voted for the Liberal Democrats and the Greens, both parties are strongly in favour of remaining in Europe.  And it wasn't just remain areas but also the leave areas that voted for them.

 

This in turn puts the Conservatives and (to a lesser extent) Labour into blind panic and consequently now May calls upon Corbyn to get a deal done as a matter of great urgency.  She knows that the Conservatives are heading for a massive fall if she cannot push through some sort of deal.  To do this it is likely that May will concede further to Labour and agree to a customs union and everything that goes with it.  Maybe a final vote for the people as well although that is still something that Corbyn and May want to avoid.  So in other words, an even softer Brexit that May's original deal.

 

So all those unhappy leave voters who voted overwhelmingly against the Tories and Labour in the local elections have almost certainly weakened their position as far as getting a Brexit they can agree to is concerned.

 

Finally I couldn't help but smile to see that in Jacob Rees Mogg's constituency in North Somerset, the Tories lost heavily in the local elections and the council is now completely controlled by the Liberal Democrats.  No comment from JRM, obviously 

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

There is once again some irony in what is happening.  As expected the Conservatives and to a lesser extent the Labour party were given a bloody nose by the electorate.  And rightly so because both sides have thoroughly screwed this whole Brexit thing up.  They have failed both camps and that is where the irony comes in.  Overwhelmingly people  voted for the Liberal Democrats and the Greens, both parties are strongly in favour of remaining in Europe.  And it wasn't just remain areas but also the leave areas that voted for them.

 

This in turn puts the Conservatives and (to a lesser extent) Labour into blind panic and consequently now May calls upon Corbyn to get a deal done as a matter of great urgency.  She knows that the Conservatives are heading for a massive fall if she cannot push through some sort of deal.  To do this it is likely that May will concede further to Labour and agree to a customs union and everything that goes with it.  Maybe a final vote for the people as well although that is still something that Corbyn and May want to avoid.  So in other words, an even softer Brexit that May's original deal.

 

So all those unhappy leave voters who voted overwhelmingly against the Tories and Labour in the local elections have almost certainly weakened their position as far as getting a Brexit they can agree to is concerned.

 

Finally I couldn't help but smile to see that in Jacob Rees Mogg's constituency in North Somerset, the Tories lost heavily in the local elections and the council is now completely controlled by the Liberal Democrats.  No comment from JRM, obviously 

So, given that the likely form of brexit that will be agreed with Labour will be a softer form of May's deal, what the the brexiters on here think ? Do they prefer this deal to revoking and remaining, which is the other likely option ?

5 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

There is once again some irony in what is happening.  As expected the Conservatives and to a lesser extent the Labour party were given a bloody nose by the electorate.  And rightly so because both sides have thoroughly screwed this whole Brexit thing up.  They have failed both camps and that is where the irony comes in.  Overwhelmingly people  voted for the Liberal Democrats and the Greens, both parties are strongly in favour of remaining in Europe.  And it wasn't just remain areas but also the leave areas that voted for them.

 

This in turn puts the Conservatives and (to a lesser extent) Labour into blind panic and consequently now May calls upon Corbyn to get a deal done as a matter of great urgency.  She knows that the Conservatives are heading for a massive fall if she cannot push through some sort of deal.  To do this it is likely that May will concede further to Labour and agree to a customs union and everything that goes with it.  Maybe a final vote for the people as well although that is still something that Corbyn and May want to avoid.  So in other words, an even softer Brexit that May's original deal.

 

So all those unhappy leave voters who voted overwhelmingly against the Tories and Labour in the local elections have almost certainly weakened their position as far as getting a Brexit they can agree to is concerned.

 

Finally I couldn't help but smile to see that in Jacob Rees Mogg's constituency in North Somerset, the Tories lost heavily in the local elections and the council is now completely controlled by the Liberal Democrats.  No comment from JRM, obviously 

Yep, I saw that too. But this protest is national. Yes, I know the deal from hell in some form is more likely now as both May and Corbyn crap their diapers and panic pants. May is an incompetent, neurotic disaster. 

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

So, given that the likely form of brexit that will be agreed with Labour will be a softer form of May's deal, what the the brexiters on here think ? Do they prefer this deal to revoking and remaining, which is the other likely option ?

I think that we'll get the answer to that with the confirmatory vote (referendum).

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

So, given that the likely form of brexit that will be agreed with Labour will be a softer form of May's deal, what the the brexiters on here think ? Do they prefer this deal to revoking and remaining, which is the other likely option ?

How does your form of Brexit become softer than May's deal? The EU have constantly said their Agreement is not open to further negotiation. How would a CU agreement now be introduced?
Of course the EU is duplicitous, but if there is any possibility of them changing the Merkel/May Surrender Treaty then there is also the converse option to reopen negotiations for a better deal for the UK. 

One for @malagateddy

 

 

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I think that we'll get the answer to that with the confirmatory vote (referendum).

There won't be another referendum now. They are all running scared after the local council drubbings. The upcoming big one is on 23rd May, when the Brexit Party storms the EU parliament. That will be your confirmatory vote.

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

There won't be another referendum now. They are all running scared after the local council drubbings. The upcoming big one is on 23rd May, when the Brexit Party storms the EU parliament. That will be your confirmatory vote.

Rather than impose some half cocked compromise "Brexit in name only" deal on us, to save their own skins, May and Corbyn will agree to do a Pontius Pilate and "let the people decide". That way they can claim that it was all the fault of the electorate and they come out of it with their hands clean.

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

How does your form of Brexit become softer than May's deal? The EU have constantly said their Agreement is not open to further negotiation. How would a CU agreement now be introduced?
Of course the EU is duplicitous, but if there is any possibility of them changing the Merkel/May Surrender Treaty then there is also the converse option to reopen negotiations for a better deal for the UK. 

A customs union is not a given for the EU but they would certainly agree to it as long as it worked for them.  They want Brexit over with just as much as the UK.

 

Maybe the question now should be...

 

If may weakens her deal even further with a CU then would the leavers still want her Brexit to go ahead?  Just how desperate are they? 

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

How does your form of Brexit become softer than May's deal? The EU have constantly said their Agreement is not open to further negotiation. How would a CU agreement now be introduced?
Of course the EU is duplicitous, but if there is any possibility of them changing the Merkel/May Surrender Treaty then there is also the converse option to reopen negotiations for a better deal for the UK. 

Correct you have only a few options :

A ) sign damn that bloody A 50 ( better known as " the Vassal agreement"

B) revoke A 50 and get back in line 

C) do nothing and at the end of this last extension you are out of E.U. from the E.U. point of view as A 50 will not be re negotiated as said a dozen times 

 

I f any other option exists , please enlighten me …?

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

If may weakens her deal even further with a CU then would the leavers still want her Brexit to go ahead?  Just how desperate are they? 

It's a lose lose situation. Brexiteers will be extremely unhappy with the Brexit in name only deal and remainers will still be extremely unhappy with the fact that we are still leaving the EU.

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Correct you have only a few options :

A ) sign damn that bloody A 50 ( better known as " the Vassal agreement"

B) revoke A 50 and get back in line 

C) do nothing and at the end of this last extension you are out of E.U. from the E.U. point of view as A 50 will not be re negotiated as said a dozen times 

 

I f any other option exists , please enlighten me …?

Let the public decide between A) and B).

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Let the public decide between A) and B).

No time enough I am afraid as this has to pass again that divided messed up parliament , or do you think E.U. go wait forever and ever ...

1 minute ago, david555 said:

No time enough I am afraid as this has to pass again that divided messed up parliament , or do you think E.U. go wait forever and ever ...

If this is the secret deal that May and Corbyn are concocting, plenty of time before October 31st.

 

Also, the EU have seen this as an acceptable solution from the get go. Likely to extend the deadline slightly to achieve a new referendum.

Just now, Spidey said:

If this is the secret deal that May and Corbyn are concocting, plenty of time before October 31st.

 

Also, the EU have seen this as an acceptable solution from the get go. Likely to extend the deadline slightly to achieve a new referendum.

Another "slightly" extending (?) whatever comes up in vine hope from U.K. side ?  

24 minutes ago, Loiner said:

How does your form of Brexit become softer than May's deal? The EU have constantly said their Agreement is not open to further negotiation. How would a CU agreement now be introduced?
Of course the EU is duplicitous, but if there is any possibility of them changing the Merkel/May Surrender Treaty then there is also the converse option to reopen negotiations for a better deal for the UK. 

It's not renegociation - remember May's deal is only covering the transition period. After that is only covered by the political declaration, which is just signaling intent. 

 

What happens after the TP is what we will be negotiating during that transition period.

 

Labour's customs union effectively extends the transition period indefinitely.   

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

Another "slightly" extending (?) whatever comes up in vine hope from U.K. side ?  

As I said, the EU would favour this solution too. Some EU mandarins have already been heard to mutter "no later than Christmas". More than enough time to organise another referendum.

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

Another "slightly" extending (?) whatever comes up in vine hope from U.K. side ?  

The EU would certainly grant an extension if it was for a second peoples vote because they know (we all know) that that would be the end of Brexit and for them that is good news.

 

But we wouldn't need that much time to organise a second vote anyway.  It isn't like the opposite sides need time for their sales pitch.  It is obvious what a complete shambles Brexit is.

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

As I said, the EU would favour this solution too. Some EU mandarins have already been heard to mutter "no later than Christmas". More than enough time to organise another referendum.

"no later than Christmas".

 

"no later than Christmas ….. but from which year x-mass..?, seriously , we the E.U. knows this Conservatives cat-fight go drag on for a decade , more even after Brexit (if ever happen ?) 

The E.U. wish not to get that poison infiltrating in his organization , luck y a few has already seen that , and putting efforts against further happening , next the veto's can be outspoken .

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The EU would certainly grant an extension if it was for a second peoples vote because they know (we all know) that that would be the end of Brexit and for them that is good news.

 

But we wouldn't need that much time to organise a second vote anyway.  It isn't like the opposite sides need time for their sales pitch.  It is obvious what a complete shambles Brexit is.

New poll finds 61% would back Remain in a second referendum

 

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/new-poll-finds-majority-back-remain-1-6031751

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

You can't beat democracy and referendum results. It's silly(and VERY dangerous) to try.

democracy is just a word, like equality, justice and human rights, they exist on paper but they aren't set in stone, if they were a reality there would be no child poverty, no homeless sleeping on the streets and nobody trying to live on a minimal wage while investment bankers get millions just as a bonus. The establishment is like smoke in a room, one is only slightly aware of it but everyone breaths it in but nobody can say where it is. It is power and we don't have it despite referendums and a ballot paper in your sweaty hand every 5 years. You get the government that the establishment wants, if brexit happens the establishment allowed it, if not, they didn't. The higher echelons of civil service would be the executive arm but not the power. 

 
Farage and his bunch of ragamuffins are likely to do as well in the May EU elections as UKIP did in the council elections.

Perhaps you wish that..but I think that they will do very well as will the afD..the french rally and other " populist " parties.


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1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

So..you're quite content to be " less than a number ".

Maybe wait till an important court case is finished..terresa the apeesa may well be up to her neck in the smelly stuff.

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You are under an illusion if you think you have aspired as high up as to be a number, you are nothing.

Yep, I saw that too. But this protest is national. Yes, I know the deal from hell in some form is more likely now as both May and Corbyn crap their diapers and panic pants. May is an incompetent, neurotic disaster. 

She is also a control freak

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1 minute ago, david555 said:

"no later than Christmas".

 

"no later than Christmas ….. but from which year x-mass..?, seriously , we the E.U. knows this Conservatives cat-fight go drag on for a decade , more even after Brexit (if ever happen ?) 

The E.U. wish not to get that poison infiltrating in his organization , luck y a few has already seen that , and putting efforts against further happening , next the veto's can be outspoken .

I don't think that you understand the consequences of a confirmatory vote. Deal recommended by government vs remain. The day after the vote is counted, the UK will either revoke Article 50 or inform the EU of the deal that they are withdrawing under. All done and dusted in a couple of weeks. How long would it take to organise. May called a snap election last year. A couple of months from start to finish. " months ago, the UK wasn't expected to take part in the Euro elections. Everything is being organised now and we will take a full part in the elections.

 

I think that you are grossly overestimating timescales and the consequences of a confirmatory vote.