Trial date set for Elon Musk's 'pedo guy' tweet

[rwill]

In the US you also have to prove that you were injured by the statement.  Would have a better chance of success in the UK.

[Bangkok Barry]

3 hours ago, Dukeleto said:

I have to wonder if Musk was worth nothing if Mr. Unsworth would be pursuing the matter after receiving an apology from Musk. After all, telling someone who was trying to help you, to stick a submarine clearly up their own arse is uncouth, uncalled for and was attention grabbing and inflammatory. Unsworth could have done the gentlemanly thing and let bygones be bygones but the scent of money and a comfortable retirement seem to be his only objective disguised as indignation in a spat between school yard boys on social media. So what if the whole playground heard it! In my opinion Mr. Unsworth has gone from "Hero" to someone who pans for gold, lest I too find myself facing a lawsuit for saying something more directly, and any kudos he received for those rescue efforts are now somewhat tarnished. Sure Elon was out of line but so was Mr. Unsworth and its a mountain out of a molehill scenario. I do hope, in this case, that the jury sees this for what it is and tosses it out. Both of them simply need to shake hands and BOTH apologise for passing childish comments! I mean honestly, I think Unsworth saying that particular statement to someone like Musk appears to be borderline premeditated in order to achieve this exact result! I am unimpressed by both men.

 

And how would you feel if someone labelled you a pedo on social media? Musk's response to an 'uncouth' remark was way, way over the top, defamatory and I am sure based on nothing at all and therefore untrue. It was far more than an exchange of insults. If I called you a pedo on Twitter how would you react?

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, rwill said:

In the US you also have to prove that you were injured by the statement.  Would have a better chance of success in the UK.

 

Nonsense, he alledged a crime, no need to prove it was injurous in US law.

[Wilsonandson]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

He had the chance to leave it after his appology, instead he aent ro a Vice journalist and asked them to dig dirt on Vernon and doubled down on his assertion that he is a pedo, he's lucky he didn't do it in Thailand or he would be in jail.  And he also called you amf I pedos, he is far from welcome in Thailand.

 

Clearly for you it is all about money, you imagine the one with the biggest potential loss should win, but its not about money, its about clearing his good name, if it were do you not imagine he may have sued for a little more than $75k?

Yes, yes, but for Thailand....

If I was Elon, lost the case, last thing I would do is come back to a place that has affected me so negatively. Last place I'd think of investing in. So in my mind, Vernon is not helping in Elon investing his money and time here. Just my opinion. That is why I would have prefered that this didn't drag on and maybe one day Elon might move on to and build a Tesla factory here. Creating thousands of jobs and helping the Thai economy.

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, Dukeleto said:

I have to wonder if Musk was worth nothing if Mr. Unsworth would be pursuing the matter after receiving an apology from Musk. After all, telling someone who was trying to help you, to stick a submarine clearly up their own arse is uncouth, uncalled for and was attention grabbing and inflammatory. Unsworth could have done the gentlemanly thing and let bygones be bygones but the scent of money and a comfortable retirement seem to be his only objective disguised as indignation in a spat between school yard boys on social media. So what if the whole playground heard it! In my opinion Mr. Unsworth has gone from "Hero" to someone who pans for gold, lest I too find myself facing a lawsuit for saying something more directly, and any kudos he received for those rescue efforts are now somewhat tarnished. Sure Elon was out of line but so was Mr. Unsworth and its a mountain out of a molehill scenario. I do hope, in this case, that the jury sees this for what it is and tosses it out. Both of them simply need to shake hands and BOTH apologise for passing childish comments! I mean honestly, I think Unsworth saying that particular statement to someone like Musk appears to be borderline premeditated in order to achieve this exact result! I am unimpressed by both men.

So your unimpressed with a fella that put his life on line to save some lives. Let's not forget the retired Thai diver that died. 

Then <deleted> Musk labels him pedo etc. The British diver is a hero.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, pegman said:

The Brit's lawyers are working on Contingency I believe. Every day their names are in the news cycle is a bonus. The diver has little to lose if it is drawn out. I think this will drag out myself.

If Elon has any brains he would settle out of court... dragging out just makes it look worse for himself.

 

[Psimbo]

37 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

I hope Elon doesn't give one cent to this guy. Elon has already apologised. Vernon is clearly exploiting the situation for financial gain. As for tarnishing reputations, it's Elon who has most to lose. And what about Thailand, will this effect Elon's decision making when it comes to his investments in Thailand? He's just built a massive Tesla factory in China. If Elon loses this case would he ever come back to Thailand? This has negative impacts for the future all because of the pursuit for financial gain.

So one can be a phallus so long as there's a profit to be made? Sa-weet.

 

I bet if someone called you a paedo you wouldn't just shrug it off.

[Wilsonandson]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

So your unimpressed with a fella that put his life on line to save some lives. Let's not forget the retired Thai diver that died. 

Then <deleted> Musk labels him pedo etc. The British diver is a hero.

A hero he may be but when a Billionaire turns up and is met by the Thai PM who thanks him for his submarine he has made. All the efforts he had made, flown to Thailand, went down the cave and went through about 2 kms of cave explaining his submarine idea. Then had hero turns up, tells Elon to get out of the cave, tells him his idea sucks and to shove it up his ass. Well is it no wonder why Elon got upset? Do that to anyone who is a high status than you and see if you get away with it. Just because Elon posted on Twitter doesn't change anything. You don't tell a Billionaire he's an idiot once to his face and secondly to a CNN news reporter live.

 

So hero Vernon maybe, the guy who mapped the cave tunnel and helped get the boys out. But why did he have such a go at Elon and his idea. It's got to have gone through his head that there could be a potential payout if he can wind up Elon and get him to say something stupid. 

[Wilsonandson]

4 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

So one can be a phallus so long as there's a profit to be made? Sa-weet.

 

I bet if someone called you a paedo you wouldn't just shrug it off.

Not if it was Elon. I'd want my retirement money!

Didn't Elon say Pedo guy? Not, Paedo.

[brian2f2f]

3 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

I can't believe this spat is going to court. They were both in the wrong. Unsworth made some dirty joke about where to put Musk's submarine, and Musk made sexual slurs against Unsworth. Tit for tat. Nobody is a hero here. Seems to me like egos running amok. How about they both apologize to each other, it was an emotionally heated time and they both desperately wanted to help. No need to enrich a bunch of lawyers. Shake hands, and go for a pint together. Job done.

regarding your comment. Let's face facts. this situation was not of Elon Musks expertise. So just the fact that he made an effort to help Unsworth should have been grateful to him. As he didn't have to even try. With that being said he should have politely explained to Musk that his invention would not work in such a scenario. But he appreciates his desire and motivation to try and help to solve problems. Followed by encouraging him to continue to strive to create new things to better help and improve the world. But with areas, he is not as well versed in to do more research in the area first so that he can better create and design a product to benefit people. So that way he does not waste his money in designing something that would never work and known that if he had done a little research time in advance. If that would have happened I'm sure Elon would not have responded in such a manner either. Resulting in a very different outcome. At first, I felt like ya Elon should pay up for his comment. But now thinking about it. Since heated words were said on both sides. Especially with what could be considered an emotionally driven enticed response from Unsworth. I feel that should cancel out his defamation case. Both pay for their own lawyer fees. Unsworth not getting a free lawyer so that he can also take this financial mess to learn to keep his own cool and think before he speaks. 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Dukeleto said:

I have to wonder if Musk was worth nothing if Mr. Unsworth would be pursuing the matter after receiving an apology from Musk. After all, telling someone who was trying to help you, to stick a submarine clearly up their own arse is uncouth, uncalled for and was attention grabbing and inflammatory. Unsworth could have done the gentlemanly thing and let bygones be bygones but the scent of money and a comfortable retirement seem to be his only objective disguised as indignation in a spat between school yard boys on social media. So what if the whole playground heard it! In my opinion Mr. Unsworth has gone from "Hero" to someone who pans for gold, lest I too find myself facing a lawsuit for saying something more directly, and any kudos he received for those rescue efforts are now somewhat tarnished. Sure Elon was out of line but so was Mr. Unsworth and its a mountain out of a molehill scenario. I do hope, in this case, that the jury sees this for what it is and tosses it out. Both of them simply need to shake hands and BOTH apologise for passing childish comments! I mean honestly, I think Unsworth saying that particular statement to someone like Musk appears to be borderline premeditated in order to achieve this exact result! I am unimpressed by both men.

 Is it not true that millions of folks, across many countries have taken such opportunities to sue and it's their absolute right to do so regardless of how much money or benefits etc., they might receive?

 

 

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, faraday said:

3 hours ago, Benmart said:

Many toss the word paedophile around in all its forms. I wonder how many know the definition?

Or know how to spell the word correctly - as you have done. ????

 

impressive

[scorecard]

19 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

So one can be a phallus so long as there's a profit to be made? Sa-weet.

 

I bet if someone called you a paedo you wouldn't just shrug it off.

 Good point, calling someone a paedo / pedo guy is a seriously negative insulting comment, likely to cause very serious damage to that person's reputation. Totally different to calling someone stupid.

 

There's also the point mr. vernon considered the comment a serious slur on his girlfriend.

 

Good luck to him, he hopes he wins and gets a big damaged cheque.

[billd766]

38 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

Yes, yes, but for Thailand....

If I was Elon, lost the case, last thing I would do is come back to a place that has affected me so negatively. Last place I'd think of investing in. So in my mind, Vernon is not helping in Elon investing his money and time here. Just my opinion. That is why I would have prefered that this didn't drag on and maybe one day Elon might move on to and build a Tesla factory here. Creating thousands of jobs and helping the Thai economy.

But Musk does not own all of Tesla nor does he rule the roost anymore. The board of directors can remove him or ignore him if they wish to build a factory in Thailand. His word alone is just that of one man.

[Wilsonandson]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

But Musk does not own all of Tesla nor does he rule the roost anymore. The board of directors can remove him or ignore him if they wish to build a factory in Thailand. His word alone is just that of one man.

Just one man who has a net worth of 20 Billion USD. He just might have some influence in the matter.

[RJRS1301]

2 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

Unsworth told Musk "to stick it where it hurts". With that Unsworth insulted Musk's ego.

Elon Musk called Unsworth a "child rapist" and "pedo guy". With that Musk asserted that Unsworth is a most despicable criminal.

Musk's statements are by far the most damaging and were not made in the heat of the moment, but made deliberately and repeatedly in public media.

 

And he is a publicity whore.

I trust Unsworth wins out here, Musk cops all the legal,and has to make sizeable life time payments to rescue organisations , diver training g organisations, and legal for all Stateless persons in Thailand under the age of 25.

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

1 hour ago, rwill said:

In the US you also have to prove that you were injured by the statement.  Would have a better chance of success in the UK.

 

Nonsense, he alledged a crime, no need to prove it was injurous in US law.

 

#3 does not jive with your legal opinion

 

 

The defamation, whether written or spoken, must be:

1) Demonstrably and objectively false
2) Seen or heard by a public third party
3) Quantifiably injurious
4) Unprivileged by law

 

Defamation Must Be Objectively False
It is not against the law to say mean things about somebody if they are either true or if they are entirely subjective. For instance, if a restaurant critic says that the food “was the worst I’ve had in a long time,” the statement, while mean, is vague and subjective enough to avoid a lawsuit. Similarly, environmental activists who make the public aware of corporate practices that harm the earth can’t be sued for defamation as long as they report on the facts.

 

Defamation Must Be Published
In order to prove injury, you have to prove that other people saw it, heard it, read it and had their minds changed because of the slanderous or libelous statements. Courts generally consider libel to be more serious than slander because writing lasts longer, though major television broadcasts often carry the same weight as major print or web publications because more people viewed them.

 

Defamation Must Cause Financial Injury
In order to determine the damages from a slander or libel suit, there must be quantifiable damages. Defamation of character damages a person’s or company’s reputation, and it must be proven that the damage to reputation correlated with a loss of money, property, relationship or was subject to harassment that led to any of the above losses.

Defamation Must Not Be Protected Speech
Examples of speech that is privileged and protected specifically by the U.S. Constitution from defamation laws include witness testimony in court and lawmaker statements in legislative chambers or official materials.

As long as the defamatory statements are published, false, injurious and unprivileged, you may have a case to file a defamation lawsuit. Of course, it is always advised to consult with a lawyer before taking any steps forward in your legal action.

https://thelawdictionary.org/article/when-to-sue-for-defamation-slander-and-libel/

[Wilsonandson]

A lot of work and time went into creating that mini-submarine. Now, do you understand why Elon lost his temper and shared a few choice words on twitter. You crushed Elon's heart Vernon.

 

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, Wilsonandson said:

Yes, yes, but for Thailand....

If I was Elon, lost the case, last thing I would do is come back to a place that has affected me so negatively. Last place I'd think of investing in. So in my mind, Vernon is not helping in Elon investing his money and time here. Just my opinion. That is why I would have prefered that this didn't drag on and maybe one day Elon might move on to and build a Tesla factory here. Creating thousands of jobs and helping the Thai economy.

 

Oh, you think he should be protected from the law because you dream that in the future he could benefit the place you just so happen to be. Its not all about money, thats just you.

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

A lot of work and time went into creating that mini-submarine. Now, do you understand why Elon lost his temper and shared a few choice words on twitter. You crushed Elon's heart Vernon.

 

 

 

How much time does it take to repurpose an existing metal tube and add some off the shelf parts? 

 

Crushed his little heart, well bless you little cotton socks, never mind that Musk asked a reporter to find evidence for his false claim, no, he has a crushed little heart, he can do whatever he wants, he's a billionare and you dream of his money so you fully support him in being a man-baby.

[Wilsonandson]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

Oh, you think he should be protected from the law because you dream that in the future he could benefit the place you just so happen to be. Its not all about money, thats just you.

'You think' - My opinion.

'Its not all about money' - It's all about money for Vernon and he already has a ball park pay off figure of 75,000 Pounds Sterling.

And yes I do want Thailand to become a more prosperous country as it could benefit my kids and I like the people. All the best to Thailand, the country where I have lived for many years.

[canopy]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

How much time does it take to repurpose an existing metal tube and add some off the shelf parts? 

Not very long. In fact that is precisely why he chose this design. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Unsworth is seeking at least $75,000 in compensatory damages plus punitive damages

 

There are no details for the alleged compensatory damages.

“Being called a paedophile can be defamation per se, meaning the claim could obviously damage his reputation,” https://af.reutersmedia.net/article/worldNews/idAFKCN1LX26X

Generally, there are three types of damages in a defamation case:

from https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/civil-litigation/calculating-damages-defamation-case.html

1. actual damages to restore the injured party, as nearly as possible, to his or her rightful position -- the position he or she would have been in had he or she not been wronged; all damages that the plaintiff has suffered with respect to his or her property, business, trade, profession or occupation; any out-of-pocket expenses the plaintiff had to pay as a result of the defamatory statements such as medical costs (but not lawsuit costs) and can include losses for which money is only a rough substitute, such as shame, mortification, or hurt feelings experienced by the plaintiff.
2. assumed damages that necessarily result from the publication of the defamatory matter and are presumed to exist even if the plaintiff cannot prove actual damages wherein the court can assume that the plaintiff has suffered harm to his or her reputation, or experienced shame, mortification, or hurt feeling. The amount of assumed damages can be a nominal, meaning an amount as low as one dollar.
3. punitive damages designed to punish the defendant for particularly egregious conduct and to deter such conduct in the future. To obtain punitive damages, the plaintiff usually needs to show that the defendant acted with malice or fraud.

If Musk is held guilty for defamation, I see only punitive damages as being the significant financial issue for Musk. Considering that Musk paid a $20 million fine to the Securities and Exchange Commission to settle charges of criminal securities fraud and the Unsworth doesn't approach such level, I expect a significantly lower civil punitive damages, ie., $500,000?

 

[Kieran00001]

12 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

#3 does not jive with your legal opinion

 

 

The defamation, whether written or spoken, must be:

1) Demonstrably and objectively false
2) Seen or heard by a public third party
3) Quantifiably injurious
4) Unprivileged by law

 

Defamation Must Be Objectively False
It is not against the law to say mean things about somebody if they are either true or if they are entirely subjective. For instance, if a restaurant critic says that the food “was the worst I’ve had in a long time,” the statement, while mean, is vague and subjective enough to avoid a lawsuit. Similarly, environmental activists who make the public aware of corporate practices that harm the earth can’t be sued for defamation as long as they report on the facts.

 

Defamation Must Be Published
In order to prove injury, you have to prove that other people saw it, heard it, read it and had their minds changed because of the slanderous or libelous statements. Courts generally consider libel to be more serious than slander because writing lasts longer, though major television broadcasts often carry the same weight as major print or web publications because more people viewed them.

 

Defamation Must Cause Financial Injury
In order to determine the damages from a slander or libel suit, there must be quantifiable damages. Defamation of character damages a person’s or company’s reputation, and it must be proven that the damage to reputation correlated with a loss of money, property, relationship or was subject to harassment that led to any of the above losses.

Defamation Must Not Be Protected Speech
Examples of speech that is privileged and protected specifically by the U.S. Constitution from defamation laws include witness testimony in court and lawmaker statements in legislative chambers or official materials.

As long as the defamatory statements are published, false, injurious and unprivileged, you may have a case to file a defamation lawsuit. Of course, it is always advised to consult with a lawyer before taking any steps forward in your legal action.

https://thelawdictionary.org/article/when-to-sue-for-defamation-slander-and-libel/

 

There are four categories of defamation in US law, the definition you describe is one of them, "allegations or imputations injurious to another in their trade, business, or profession", and that one must demonstrate harm done.  However, there are the other three, 

"allegations or imputations of loathsome disease, allegations or imputations of unchastity, and

allegations or imputations of criminal activity", these are known as defamation per se, and do not have to have resultant damage proven as it is assumed under common law that damage is inherent in the nature of the accusation.

[Kieran00001]

12 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

'You think' - My opinion.

'Its not all about money' - It's all about money for Vernon and he already has a ball park pay off figure of 75,000 Pounds Sterling.

And yes I do want Thailand to become a more prosperous country as it could benefit my kids and I like the people. All the best to Thailand, the country where I have lived for many years.

 

Yes, well done, what you think can also referred to as your opinion. Lol

 

Clearly it is not about money or he would sue for big money, 75k is peanuts to Musk, a lot of people would have sued for millions, just check this very thread for evidence of that.

 

As for your wishes for Thailand, it is extraodinarily self serving to seek immunity for a corporation owner on the mere dream that he may benefit the place you happen to be, stop thinking about yourself for a second.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Kieran00001

[pegman]

Mom Musk is from Saskatchewan. Where I come from that explains a lot.

[billd766]

58 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

Just one man who has a net worth of 20 Billion USD. He just might have some influence in the matter.

That most probably won't impress the judge other than perhaps to impose a higher fine on him.

[Hank Gunn]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

So your unimpressed with a fella that put his life on line to save some lives. Let's not forget the retired Thai diver that died. 

Then <deleted> Musk labels him pedo etc. The British diver is a hero.

I don’t know why everyone is making Unsworth out as a hero, or even labeling him a “diver”. Put his life on the line? Hardly.

 

First, he’s not a diver and as far as I know, wasn’t directly (i.e. physically) involved in the rescue. He is a spelunker who had been in that cave many times during the dry season and knew it very well. His knowledge of the cave was undoubtedly a very big help in the rescue, but he was, as far as I know, not going in with the Thai Navy divers,

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Wilsonandson said:

Yes, yes, but for Thailand....

If I was Elon, lost the case, last thing I would do is come back to a place that has affected me so negatively. Last place I'd think of investing in. So in my mind, Vernon is not helping in Elon investing his money and time here. Just my opinion. That is why I would have prefered that this didn't drag on and maybe one day Elon might move on to and build a Tesla factory here. Creating thousands of jobs and helping the Thai economy.

The Court case is being held in the USA , if the USA Court find  Musk to be guilty , will Musk be going bck home to South Africa and closing Tesla down ?

[sanemax]

5 hours ago, Dukeleto said:

I have to wonder if Musk was worth nothing if Mr. Unsworth would be pursuing the matter after receiving an apology from Musk. 

Wait, Musk never apologized to Vern or retracted the allegation , he was forced by his Company to opologise for making the tweet