Retirement Visa under the radar.

[dallen52]

Was confronted with an interesting story about the retirement extension, and the person who told me has obviously been through an agent.

Renewal was done pre March 1st. 

A well known Pattaya legal cum Visa extension company did using Jomtien immigration. 

15,000.

No bank information was required. 

2 days turnaround. 

You have to front initially to JI and get a mug shot. 

I've seen the stamps in the passport. All legit.

The chap has travelled out of Thailand and back, and he has had no issues. 

Even his re entry stamp was done in about 10 minutes at the airport and then he was shown the priority lane.

Full of Chinese. (nice).

90 day reports are done for you.

Now the interesting thing is. 

I asked regards the bank and the much talked about proof of income. 

Retaining a certain amount. Etc.

The response was, "nothing is changed" business as usual. 

 

Hence my heading, 

"Under the radar"

 

We know that its a path that some take, and I'm not judge and jury.

Its It's obviously working. 

Even after BJ demise. 

 

Obviously wheels within wheels as they say, and cash is still all powerful in the immigration department.

 

Just genuine comments please.

As we know, TIT..

 

[Jip99]

You are new here, right ?

[n210mp]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

You are new here, right ?

with repect if you have a comment on what seems to be a very informative post could you say what your take on the OP is and not confuse me with a cryptic comment? 

[Jip99]

14 minutes ago, n210mp said:

with repect if you have a comment on what seems to be a very informative post could you say what your take on the OP is and not confuse me with a cryptic comment? 

 

 

So, this is really new to you as well ?

 

Dodgy retirement extensions (they are not visas) have been available since forever. Apart from the occasional blip (like BJ's crackdown) this lucrative, and arguably illegal, practice continues unabated.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Jip99

[GeorgeCross]

so once again make everyone's lives harder (IOs included) whilst failing to solve the core issue

 

well done immigration!

 

[yodsak]

Another agent thread.

No one expected BJ to stop agents.

Surprised at no bank information ,all the agents i know in pattaya put 800k in your bank.

[bert bloggs]

I want to change to a marriage visa next time , any good cheap agent ,i just require them to do it ,money i can supply myself ,just want to make sure it goes through ,also good translation guy . any help appreciated ,its just i have always gone the retirement route,without problem ,but dont want to tie up "MY" money ..

[n210mp]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

So, this is really new to you as well ?

 

Dodgy retirement extensions (they are not visas) have been available since forever. Apart from the occasional blip (like BJ's crackdown) this lucrative, and arguably illegal, practice continues unabated.

No it's not new to me and disingenuous of you to suggest so!

What I did not notice though was the date he mentioned until re-reading his OP ,  "pre March 1st" and in fact Visa extensions were still being "completed" up to the 17th of March in the previously described manner! 

[n210mp]

2 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

I want to change to a marriage visa next time , any good cheap agent ,i just require them to do it ,money i can supply myself ,just want to make sure it goes through ,also good translation guy . any help appreciated ,its just i have always gone the retirement route,without problem ,but dont want to tie up "MY" money ..

Why dont you do it yourself Bert, it will save you a lot of money.

[bert bloggs]

2 hours ago, n210mp said:

Why dont you do it yourself Bert, it will save you a lot of money.

I just would like some help the first time ,i am sure then i will , but for now!!!!!

[dallen52]

12 hours ago, Jip99 said:

You are new here, right ?

A silly thing to say..

 

I know how it works..

 

I thought maybe I missed something regarding the money aspect 

[dallen52]

10 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

So, this is really new to you as well ?

 

Dodgy retirement extensions (they are not visas) have been available since forever. Apart from the occasional blip (like BJ's crackdown) this lucrative, and arguably illegal, practice continues unabated.

Nobody said it's a Visa.

It's a retirement extension. 

On this you are correct. 

 

The subject of legality is very vague in Thailand. 

 

The chap in question approached one of the many agents who do this service. 

He was required to front JI and have his mugshot taken at desk 8.

After that, the extension was placed in his passport.

2 days later.

No bank book. 

No balance required to be shown down the road. 

Reports done at 90 days for 300 baht.

It was not his first retirement extension. 

 

Dodgy or not, its certainly making me think. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by dallen52

[Pilotman]

3 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Nobody said it's a Visa.

It's a retirement extension. 

On this you are correct. 

 

The subject of legality is very vague in Thailand. 

 

The chap in question approached one of the many agents who do this service. 

He was required to front JI and have his mugshot taken at desk 8.

After that, the extension was placed in his passport. 

No bank book. 

No balance required to be shown down the road. 

Reports done at 90 days for 300 baht.

 

Dodgy or not, its certainly making me think. 

dodgy indeed and illegal.  Avoiding immigration law, with or without the connivance of Immigration itself, is illegal. Personally, I sleep better knowing I've done it myself and followed the rules.  

Edited May 12, 2019 by Pilotman

[dallen52]

9 hours ago, yodsak said:

Another agent thread.

No one expected BJ to stop agents.

Surprised at no bank information ,all the agents i know in pattaya put 800k in your bank.

Not this one. 

And it appears that for a renewal of the original extension they are not asking for it.

All I can go off is a working retirement extension I have seen.

Plus exit and entry stamps since, and a re entry stamp obtained in the airport. 

[dallen52]

10 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

dodgy indeed and illegal.  Avoiding immigration law, with or without the connivance of Immigration itself, is illegal. Personally, I sleep better knowing I've done it myself and followed the rules.  

From previous posts I have picked up that the official in charge for any specific IO has the ability to basically do what they want. 

Regardless of what the law in general says.

We all know the current official way its prescribed to be done..

 

I was just more interested in the fact that this practice is still very active and the stamps are legitimate. 

And obviously on the system. 

[Pilotman]

Just now, dallen52 said:

From previous posts I have picked up that the official in charge for any specific IO has the ability to basically do what they want. 

Regardless of what the law in general says.

We all know the current official way its prescribed to be done..

 

I was just more interested in the fact that this practice is still very active and the stamps are legitimate. 

And obviously on the system. 

still illegal and the local IOs do not have the authority to circumvent the law, merely to interpret some parts of it. 

[Dumbastheycome]

12 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Not this one. 

And it appears that for a renewal of the original extension they are not asking for it.

All I can go off is a working retirement extension I have seen.

Plus exit and entry stamps since, and a re entry stamp obtained in the airport. 

Once a "legitimate " stamp of  approved  extension is  in the passport regardless of  method to  acquire then exit and  entry  on the  basis  of a  re entry  permit should be a  foregone expectation.

 

[NanLaew]

So one agent has apparently acquired one extension for one person without ANY funds being shunted in/out of the applicants account. At first glance, some may see this subtle 'bank free' version of the same old 'agent option' as all the encouragement they need to either keep using or start using an agent.

 

Their choice. The illegality of it is completely irrelevant when you pause, look out the window and realize where you are. Until they start thoroughly checking on the provenance of all extensions, the status quo will prevail. Right now, despite the chairs being shifted around regarding who needs to provide what to get a 1-year extension, absolutely nothing significant has changed.

[dallen52]

10 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Once a "legitimate " stamp of  approved  extension is  in the passport regardless of  method to  acquire then exit and  entry  on the  basis  of a  re entry  permit should be a  foregone expectation.

 

Illegal or not, as one contributor consistently keeps mentioning. 

 

The letter of the law in the LOS seems to be printed on 1000 baht notes.

Yes, we know what the immigration law says.

And it's about as robust as any other law here. (Joking)

 

From this, my main interest was the non requirements for a bank book or the deposits required. 

After the first extension.

(Yes, I / we can read the official website on this, but if IO senior officials are basically doing this openly, what can I say)?

I actually contacted the visa agents office involved, and the response was nothing changed business as usual..

It works.

They can obviously input the computer and satisfy the requirements. 

Enough said...

I know that the 65k and 800k figures are daunting for some retirees, so it's basically general information for any one interested.

[dallen52]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

So one agent has apparently acquired one extension for one person without ANY funds being shunted in/out of the applicants account. 

Well not exactly one agent.

Numerous agents and they do several times a day still.

I was at the specific office when the drop off service from JI was delivering the processed passports back one afternoon. 

 

I wanted to learn more about it.. 

 

If it saves someone joining the Pattaya Flying Club, what can I say?

[dallen52]

20 hours ago, yodsak said:

Another agent thread.

No one expected BJ to stop agents.

Surprised at no bank information ,all the agents i know in pattaya put 800k in your bank.

I think the agents and late night IO processing maybe stopped BJ, along with a few other toes trodden on, or misdemeanor.

[bkk6060]

Of course, the agents are going no where and there will never be a true ¨crack down¨.

It is 100ś millions of baht spread throughout the entire RTP.

The only thing that has and will change is the agent prices increasing.

Just the way it is and will continue to be....

[seancbk]

21 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

I want to change to a marriage visa next time , any good cheap agent ,i just require them to do it ,money i can supply myself ,just want to make sure it goes through ,also good translation guy . any help appreciated ,its just i have always gone the retirement route,without problem ,but dont want to tie up "MY" money ..

Do you want an agent to find you someone to marry?

[Peterw42]

It appears people still don't understand agent extensions.

Agent extensions are not clandestine operations done in back alleys using fake bank documents. They are not illegal.

 

Agent extensions are done in broad daylight by high ranking IOs with the discretionary power to approve an extension, with or without a bank book, with or without seasoned funds. The stamp/extension in your passport is 100% legal.

 

Read the immigration act or any of the police orders, you will find a paragraph that says something like " An IO of a certain rank has discretionary powers to approve an extension with out the normal requirements".

 

The agents are still operating, they are still in contact with the high ranking IOs, who are still using their discretionary powers to legally approve legal extensions.

[Destiny1990]

I think its true just only not in Thailand.

[skatewash]

Here's my question.  Once you go do this route, using an agent to procure your extension of stay without meeting the financial requirements, can you go back to doing it the above-board way the next year?

No problem getting the first agent-procured extension of stay, apparently.  But if the next year you decide to do it yourself don't you get questioned about why you didn't have funds of 800,000 baht or more in your account for 3 months following your application for extension, never fall below 400,000 for the year, or have 800,000 baht or more for two months before your application.

In other words, once you go down this road aren't you stuck going down this road for the rest of your life.  If not, how do you get back into the mainstream.  Remember,  you won't have any agent to help you do this.

[Peterw42]

21 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

I want to change to a marriage visa next time , any good cheap agent ,i just require them to do it ,money i can supply myself ,just want to make sure it goes through ,also good translation guy . any help appreciated ,its just i have always gone the retirement route,without problem ,but dont want to tie up "MY" money ..

I think you will find agents tend to not do marriage extensions as it involves the local IO and Bangkok IO. Any that do are just holding your hand while you do it. They cant magically get approval without the correct documents and they probably are not directly in contact with the Bangkok end of things. They will help to get all your documents in order for the local IO but the local IO is basically just collecting the documents to send to Bangkok.

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Here's my question.  Once you go do this route, using an agent to procure your extension of stay without meeting the financial requirements, can you go back to doing it the above-board way the next year?

No problem getting the first agent-procured extension of stay, apparently.  But if the next year you decide to do it yourself don't you get questioned about why you didn't have funds of 800,000 baht or more in your account for 3 months following your application for extension, never fall below 400,000 for the year, or have 800,000 baht or more for two months before your application.

In other words, once you go down this road aren't you stuck going down this road for the rest of your life.  If not, how do you get back into the mainstream.  Remember,  you won't have any agent to help you do this.

I have done agent retire extensions then switched to marriage extension and did it myself. They can look back through your records and all they will see legal past extensions. Agent extensions are not illegal extensions, you are not operating outside the normal system.

[jesimps]

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

It appears people still don't understand agent extensions.

Agent extensions are not clandestine operations done in back alleys using fake bank documents. They are not illegal.

 

Agent extensions are done in broad daylight by high ranking IOs with the discretionary power to approve an extension, with or without a bank book, with or without seasoned funds. The stamp/extension in your passport is 100% legal.

 

Read the immigration act or any of the police orders, you will find a paragraph that says something like " An IO of a certain rank has discretionary powers to approve an extension with out the normal requirements".

 

The agents are still operating, they are still in contact with the high ranking IOs, who are still using their discretionary powers to legally approve legal extensions.

Some cynics would say that the rule changes were done to encourage more people to use the agents rather than to stamp it out. Not me of course, I think TI is completely unbent.....

[jesimps]

11 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Here's my question.  Once you go do this route, using an agent to procure your extension of stay without meeting the financial requirements, can you go back to doing it the above-board way the next year?

No problem getting the first agent-procured extension of stay, apparently.  But if the next year you decide to do it yourself don't you get questioned about why you didn't have funds of 800,000 baht or more in your account for 3 months following your application for extension, never fall below 400,000 for the year, or have 800,000 baht or more for two months before your application.

In other words, once you go down this road aren't you stuck going down this road for the rest of your life.  If not, how do you get back into the mainstream.  Remember,  you won't have any agent to help you do this.

Use the income or combination method.