Mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant O-A retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

[madmen]

I'm one of the thousands, had 5 trips to government hospital in the last four weeks (3 were to emergency).
My hospital bill was 1,500bht ........... (paying from 600bht to 77bht per visit)
 
Tell me why I need insurance again?
Bit of a wait (2-5hrs) each visit, didn't mind the 50bht extra foreigner charge on the bill, but can't fault the service

Sure until you have full body stroke and then end up with double pneumonia like my body did. 1.5 million baht

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[pagallim]

7 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I have health insurance as a retired military soldier but it has no policy only your id card and that you have part a and b from Medicare.  I know it better than the 40,000/400,000 they want you to have.  But how do you prove that to a Thai IO.

Letter from Embassy..........unless of course you're from the US, UK, or Australia..........????

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, madmen said:

Sure until you have full body stroke and then end up with double pneumonia like my body did. 1.5 million baht

I'm actually OK with death, I've done enough, I'm ready to go.

If I'd died last week, I would have been OK with that.

[Andrew Dwyer]

16 minutes ago, pagallim said:

Thanks for the clarification, always best to get 'actual experience' even in the face of contradictory 'official' website directives, and allowing for the variances we all experience between individual local IO's.

 

Incidentally and out of interest, presumably your first O-A was obtained at home, with the Medical/Police Clearance certification.   When you're extending (in your case Ayutthaya), do you have to provide new certification?

 

Given that local IO's are able to process O-A extensions, and as it appears that that category is the only one affected by the proposed medical insurance mandate, I can foresee much wailing and gnashing of teeth by IO's at checking individual insurance documentation, not all of which will be of local (Thai) origin.   They are unable to verify income sources other than Embassy letters, which doesn't bode well when you throw multi lingual health insurance policies into the mix. 

Yup, if the MFA website can’t get the rulings correct what hope do we have ?? ????

 

Yes my OA was obtained in London, police check ( ACRO ) done online and the medical certificate done in Thailand ( a lot easier and cheaper, not many do it that way ).

Basically when your visa expires ( after 1 year ) , and if you have been prudent and obtained a second year, you are then on permission to stay based on retirement which is then extended the same as other extensions ( not marriage which is more involved ). No more requirements, police, medical etc .

 

Sooo, your OA is gone and forgotten, now you are on permission to stay , although on extension the form asks you what visa you entered Thailand on it has been reported on TVF that they don’t distinguish between non imm B, O or OA and you can write Non Imm.

[utalkin2me]

The first thing everyone needs to realize is the stats do not matter. What if all the stats are correct? What if they are all wrong? It does not matter. They are saying the reason is unpaid medical debt, so that is that. They could have cited an increase in elephant turds on streets as the reason. That would not matter either.

 

What do you think you are going to do, prove a stat is wrong and get the decision reversed?! 

 

All that matters is they seem to have decided to target o-a visa applications. 

[malagateddy]

 
in the UK you would pay 16,000 baht annually for the NHS surcharge which comes with unlimited coverage both in and out patient, no pre-existing conditon exclusions and its for any age
 
mandatory for long stay settlement visas 
 
source: https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-much-pay
 
oh and of course being a developed country, after 5 years they give you a passport and you don't have to pay it ever again.
 
not 50-250K every year until you die broke in your late 90s with a policy that covered $%$% all of consequence.
 
 
 

And a BUPA Private Hospital would be???

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[GeorgeCross]

anyways we should know soon enough 

[Benmart]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:27 PM, Denim said:

Lies , Damn lies and statistics. 

Thank you Mark Twain.????

[Jingthing]

42 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

anyways we should know soon enough 

Or maybe not so soon.

For example the actual specific enforcement rules for combo method applications without embassy letters are STILL very unclear, especially when considering the varying interpretations at different offices. 

Sometimes clarity takes a really long time here. 

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Who knows?! All Immigration law can change. The current plans however only affect OA visas which can only be applied for in the applicant's home country.

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Who knows what the O-A will require because there is no law and no changes made so far.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Who knows what they will do in the future. However the current proposal is only for visas not Extensions.

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You should probably say, In my opinion it is only for visas not extensions.  I think a reasonable man looking at all the information available would not really have a definitive answer one could take to the bank given how high the stakes are for some, wife and children and family.  If I took your advice I wouldn't have any new insurance ready to go when I hit immigration on the last day of June - which is the earliest I can apply. 

[brewsterbudgen]

Who knows what the O-A will require because there is no law and no changes made so far.

Correct. They are just proposals which have been agreed by Cabinet.

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[hashmodha]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:26 PM, Isaanbiker said:

The requirement was introduced because foreign expats have piled up unpaid medical bills of more than Bt300 million since 2016. 

 

   How many of them were direct neighbors, or generally from SEA?

 

    Watching locals subtracting 10 baht from 100 baht by using a calculator makes me think. How accurate is this statistic then? 

 

    

I would like to take a bet Cambodian, Vietnam, Mynmar illegal Labourers are a significant part of this   Problem...why are the Hospitals taking on patients who cannot pay?...

[pattayadgw]

I would seriously like to see a break down of those foreigners who used hospitals and didn't pay ie: expats who reside here and expats on holidays?

[micmichd]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

Sure until you have full body stroke and then end up with double pneumonia like my body did. 1.5 million baht

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So, did a private health insurance pay your 1.5 million baht bill without messing around about possible pre-existing conditions?

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

The non imm oa (longstay visa) is valid for 12 months, if you leave and return Thailand just before the expiry date you get stamped in for another year. During this 2nd year you can do an extension to stay based being over 50 yrs or marriage or ..... You can however also return home and apply for another non imm oa visa. Many people do this as they are not required to show B 800k or B 65k/month inside Thailand. If you however apply outside your home country for a longstay visa it is an non imm o visa (longstay visa). This visa can also be extended based on 50 + or marriage or ... .

That funny.  I got a Non O-A in New York 13 years ago and have extended it every year since then.

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[jak2002003]

This is not for the normal retirement visa right?  

 

O - A visa.... just the one for a year - that can be extended?  If so, am I correct in thinking that its only people over 50 on the O - A visa that need to get this medical insurance, and not the people on retirement visas with the required money in the bank?

 

If that is the case, what is all this panic about?

 

 

 

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, pattayadgw said:

I would seriously like to see a break down of those foreigners who used hospitals and didn't pay ie: expats who reside here and expats on holidays?

Also I hope the powers that be have done I quick and dirty calculation on the back of a bar napkin of what just a conservative 10% drop in the long term retirement community would cost the Thai economy?...

 

8,000 People x 65k month x 12 months = 6,240,000,000 baht...

 

Does that seem worth it to save most like a small portion of the 300,000,000 in bad debt?

[brewsterbudgen]

This is not for the normal retirement visa right?  
 
O - A visa.... just the one for a year - that can be extended?  If so, am I correct in thinking that its only people over 50 on the O - A visa that need to get this medical insurance, and not the people on retirement visas with the required money in the bank?
 
If that is the case, what is all this panic about?
 
 
 

Many people are reading more into it, and assuming it will apply to Extensions of Stay, despite there being no evidence of this.

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[madmen]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Many people are reading more into it, and assuming it will apply to Extensions of Stay, despite there being no evidence of this.

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Good old fashioned scare mongering probably by the hundreds that don't even live here but cant cut the chord

[sfokevin]

9 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Many people are reading more into it, and assuming it will apply to Extensions of Stay, despite there being no evidence of this.

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“According to Director General Nattawuth, the new rule applies to both new applicants for the non-immigrant visa (O-A), which offers a stay of up to one year, and those wishing to renew their visa. Each renewal is valid for one year”

 

https://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30369323

[brewsterbudgen]

“According to Nattawuth, the new rule applies to both new applicants for the non-immigrant visa (O-A), which offers a stay of up to one year, and those wishing to renew their visa. Each renewal is valid for one year”
 
https://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30369323

Let's not do this again. A "renewal" refers to renewing something you had before i.e. the visa. An Extension is completely different. In fact, the OA visa isn't renewed, you just apply for a new one at an overseas Consulate or Embassy. Mr Natthawut is confused or being incorrectly quoted. Newspapers are not renowned for getting all their facts right.

Stop relying on one misquoted or badly translated individual.

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[tigerfeet]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:23 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

If all these millions of OA visa holders are skipping their hospital bills then why don’t they chase em up !!

After all , what with the TM 30 and 90 days reporting they are easily tracked down

they usually die or skip the country  

[CNX GUY]

this is a very suspicious story on so many levels.

 

I try not use doctors very much but when I have, the first thing that the hospital does establish how I am going to pay; which is with cash.

 

if I was going to leave a bill unpaid, I would have to dash out of the hospital and breakaway from the nurse who will sometimes accompany me to the payment area. admittedly, they don't always do that so I could run away if I wanted to; but I could only do that once.

 

$9 million in unpaid hospital bills per year? 38 million foreign retirement visas that are active? that comes out to 0.24B per visa holder!!!!!!!!

 

maybe I have missed it but I have never seen any path whatsoever that would allow me to get treatment that I w/could not immediately pay for.

 

38 million O visas?  that's more than half the population of Thailand. I'm sorry, when I'm walking around the streets I am seeing many more Thai people than I am old farangs!

 

this looks to me like another move to force foreigners to subsidize domestic industry; this time instead of the banks it's the insurance companies!

 

this one will make me think about how important it is for me to stay here.

[marcusarelus]

28 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Let's not do this again. A "renewal" refers to renewing something you had before i.e. the visa. An Extension is completely different. In fact, the OA visa isn't renewed, you just apply for a new one at an overseas Consulate or Embassy. Mr Natthawut is confused or being incorrectly quoted. Newspapers are not renowned for getting all their facts right.

Stop relying on one misquoted or badly translated individual.

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Dr. Natthawut knows nothing about visas.  I would not trust his word for anything. 

[rabas]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Let's not do this again. A "renewal" refers to renewing something you had before i.e. the visa. An Extension is completely different. In fact, the OA visa isn't renewed, you just apply for a new one at an overseas Consulate or Embassy. Mr Natthawut is confused or being incorrectly quoted. Newspapers are not renowned for getting all their facts right.

Stop relying on one misquoted or badly translated individual.

The question is: will it apply to people extending their visas, or not.  DG Nattawuth only said it applies to A-O, 1 year visas that  are _____ year by year.  Fill in the blank.

English     Thai   (google)

extend    ต่ออายุ
renew     ต่ออายุ

Extend and renew are indistinguishable in Thai. (taw ah-yoo) A literal translation of his comment is:  ...  "1 year, and can ask to extend stay year by year." Nattawuth would only know about O-A visas for retirement.

 

The one good argument that it does not apply to existing retirees would be that it applies only to people asking for new A-O visas from the MFA/Embassies. The MFA may not have authority to make demands of people already in country. MFA's jurisdiction is overseas, entry into the country.

[sfokevin]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Let's not do this again. A "renewal" refers to renewing something you had before i.e. the visa. An Extension is completely different. In fact, the OA visa isn't renewed, you just apply for a new one at an overseas Consulate or Embassy. Mr Natthawut is confused or being incorrectly quoted. Newspapers are not renowned for getting all their facts right.

Stop relying on one misquoted or badly translated individual.

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You can choose to rationalize it however you wish but you can't say there is no evidence... 

[sfokevin]

17 minutes ago, rabas said:

The one good argument that it does not apply to existing retirees would be that it applies only to people asking for new A-O visas from the MFA/Embassies. The MFA may not have authority to make demands of people already in country. MFA's jurisdiction is overseas, entry into the country.

I agree with your line of thinking... The Thai Immigration Police are going to be reluctant to sign up to be on the front line of tossing out a bunch of fragile 70 year olds out of the country to solve another ministries budget problems...

[watcharacters]

 

 

On an annual basis it just means a few less high end cars for the elite.    

[steve73]

54 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

The one good argument that it does not apply to existing retirees would be that it applies only to people asking for new A-O visas from the MFA/Embassies. The MFA may not have authority to make demands of people already in country. MFA's jurisdiction is overseas, entry into the country.

But unless Immigration want to see evidence of the necessary insurance on entry to the country, then you would probably be uninsured during the 2nd year of using your O-A.