Mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant O-A retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

[INV]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Its a bit off topic but here is a statement copied from this page https://www.expatassure.com/vietnam/

 

Expatriates must contribute to the compulsory health insurance, but as will be explained in the following paragraph, this is often not enough and many expatriates choose to subscribe to a private medical insurance in Vietnam.

Thanks for that information

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Without reading all the post do these figures relate to the private hospitals or government hospitals?

Government hospitals are the ones complaining and I use our local gov hospital and there no way I can not pay.

As one poster said ' Peter ' it is probably accident disputes and non payment from insurance that figures are drummed up from. 

[Mitkof Island]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

That has to be some sort of record, 3-4 things wrong in one statement.

 

 

Where does this wacky information come from? Some Lonely Planet Khao San Road idiot?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, pookiki said:

I would implore all the embassies in Thailand with retirees in Thailand to condemn the MOPH in issuing such erroneous information in support of their efforts to implement mandatory medical insurance for O-A visa holders and future applicants -and the issue as it applies to those retirees on extension of stay is still very murky.

 

So I think one of the more interesting questions about all this is....

 

A. Did MOPH present to Cabinet a bunch of blatantly erroneous/false statistics to support their proposal, citing O-A numbers that are impossibly wrong?

 

or

 

B. Did The Nation take MOPH statistics that might have been referring to the entire foreign visitor population to Thailand and somehow convert those into being reported as O-A only numbers?

 

The mind boggles.... Considering this is Thailand, I'd say either is a reasonable possibility.

 

 

 

[Confuscious]

IMHO, this whole "Medical Insurance" is a big scam with the only intention to get money into the state coffers.

First, most (Western) people above 50 years have already 1 or more pre-existing conditions which can be linked to a new disease and thus be denied by a Medical Insurance.
Even if the Insurance companies would give you a medical insurance without a  preliminary health check, on a hospitalisation it would be easy for the doctors to find a link to a previous health condition and void the medical insurance,

Second, most of these non-paid bills are from people who need an urgent hospitalisation and end-up with a hospital bill of a few million of bahts.
I remember vague a recent case of a British woman who died in a Thai hospital after a few weeks in intensive care and left the hospital with a multi-million baht bill as the family didn't want to come up with the huge amount of money to get a dead corpse.
A medical insurance with a cover of 400,000 baht will not help much in these cases.

Just my 2 cents input in this discussion ....

[oslooskar]

13 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

I struggle to understand all the figures given in this article ??

Mainly:

Surely that is fully incorrect. I would bet tens or hundreds thousands at max, no?

I think the figure would most likely be between 2 and 3 million expats living in Thailand---though I could be very wrong.

[CiderFizz]

It's time The Nation applied common sense to stories and where the information is obviously rubbish they should do some investigating before publishing this tripe. The population of Thailand is approximately 66 million people. The statistics above imply that over 50% of the population are holders of Non-immigrant (O-A) visas. 

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Without reading all the post do these figures relate to the private hospitals or government hospitals? Would they know what age group do these bad debts relate to?

I have just spent the last 5 days going to Phuket International Hospital and there's a bill waiting for me everyday how does it happen people just do a runner?

Yes, I too have had various medical problems that resulted in visiting Phuket/Bangkok Int. hosp. and Phuket Int. hosp. on a number of occasions.

 

Providing my passport was always the first requirement, and the next question was 'Do you have insurance?'.

 

The first few times there would always be a staff member nearby when I went to pay for the treatment provided - but after a few visits they realised that I wasn't going to 'do a runner' as I'd already paid for the expensive treatment, and so was unlikely to 'run' for the (far cheaper) following treatment.

 

Other posters have pointed out that this is a ridiculous farce designed to come up with an expensive (and pointless) option for 'farangs', that puts money into the hands of their friends in the insurance industry.

 

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

I think the figure would most likely be between 2 and 3 million expats living in Thailand---though I could be very wrong.

Yes,

but only a few hundreds thousand on Retirement,

and only a few of those on O-A visa.

[ianezy0]

13 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

I struggle to understand all the figures given in this article ??

Mainly:

Surely that is fully incorrect. I would bet tens or hundreds thousands at max, no?

It does sound a lot.

But I guess if the Chinese, Indian, Russians etc. are also here on OA then the amount would be large??

[EL159]

Theres some story going about that AETNA ( BUPA) is not one of the authorised insurers. Surely that cant be true? I e been in BUPA ( now AETNA) for 12 years paying over 30,000 baht a year and have the 400,000/ 40,000 requirement.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, micmichd said:

OP says 38 million medical visits, not 38 million persons. 

 

 

No, the statistics charts at the bottom of the OP article say exactly what others have been complaining about here.... citing O-A visa holders, not numbers of medical visits:

 

Quote

Non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 32 million 

 

The text of the article itself doesn't mention those numbers at all, but only medical visits as follows:

 

Quote

For instance, foreigners made 3.42 million medical visits last year, and did not pay for 680,000 of them, while in 2017, foreigners made 3.3 million medical visits and did not pay for 565,000 of them. 

 

Now for starters, this text from the article doesn't refer to O-A visa holders who are the subject of the article. It only refers to "foreigners".  I can believe ALL foreign visitors to Thailand may have made 3+ million visits to govt. hospitals in a year...  But the population of perhaps some tens of thousands of total O-A visa holders certainly did not!

 

My guess is, the statistics they're wrongly attributing to O-A visa holders in the charts at the bottom of the article are probably stats for ALL foreign visitors to Thailand, including visa-exempt, visa on arrival, tourist visa, etc etc....  Having nothing to do with the O-A visa holder population they're targeting with the insurance proposal.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, EL159 said:

Theres some story going about that AETNA ( BUPA) is not one of the authorised insurers. Surely that cant be true? I e been in BUPA ( now AETNA) for 12 years paying over 30,000 baht a year and have the 400,000/ 40,000 requirement.

 

Unlike the O-X visa scheme, this latest proposal re O-A visa holders would NOT require the insurance to be issued from a set of government-approved providers... As described thus far, the O-A requirement would allow insurance from any insurer, Thai or foreign, as long as the policy met the 400K/40K coverage requirements.

 

[dick dasterdly]

19 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Its a bit off topic but here is a statement copied from this page https://www.expatassure.com/vietnam/

 

Expatriates must contribute to the compulsory health insurance, but as will be explained in the following paragraph, this is often not enough and many expatriates choose to subscribe to a private medical insurance in Vietnam.

This would be the ideal solution for those of us living in Thailand too!

[ThaiPauly]

1 minute ago, EL159 said:

Theres some story going about that AETNA ( BUPA) is not one of the authorised insurers. Surely that cant be true? I e been in BUPA ( now AETNA) for 12 years paying over 30,000 baht a year and have the 400,000/ 40,000 requirement.

Where did you hear this from..I have just applied to Cigna for a quote...is there a list of approved foreign insurers out there somewhere?

I just can't believe that BUPA one of the health insurance giants would be dismissed as unsuitable???

 

To me, from what you say, the government wants everyone on their  crappy expensive policies to make a killing from us

[ianezy0]

13 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Hate to have Dr. Nattawuth as your physician. Think of the wrong diagnoses wrong medicines and adding of the bills he would torture you with. 

Doctors can’t add or subtract anything over 10. Why would they need to. We only got 1 or 2 of anything. The most is 10 toes or fingers. So if they had to remove a leg it’s 2 - 1 = 1.

imagine the confusion when they asked him to provide numbers in millions !!

[johnarth]

they have made this mistake for the whole world to see now let's see them prove it like names, countries ages and visas they must have this info or how can they claim so? I know when I in the hospital whether private or gov I have to pay my bill every afternoon so I want to know how do I get away without paying as everyone else does why am I being singled out? What they should do is send the bills to the countries as they should have the names and address of the people concerned there should be cooperation between countries on this 

[Xonax]

53 minutes ago, randy723 said:

why not ALL people with a OA visa not just the ones over 50 because the young people are the ones who most need it because they leave their brain at home when they come here and are the one that have most of the accident and need the medical care.

Maybe because OA visas is for 50+ only? 
http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

How is it possible to escape from the hospitals without paying?  The doctor don´t even tell you, what medicine you are being prescribed, so you can do a runner and buy the medicine in a local pharmacy, at a fraction of the price.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, MikeN said:

They were in the original article, the Nation has edited their version but if you go to thaivisanews https://news.thaivisa.com/article/35306/mandatory-health-insurance-for-retirement-visa-holders-likely-to-take-effect-in-july it was still there as I write this.

 The Nation has obviously been told the numbers are bogus, but I bet they don’t have the intestinal fortitude to tell the government that.

 

Hooo!!!!!  They didn't just EDIT the online version... They deleted the ENTIRE bogus "statistics" section that had originally been at the bottom of the OP article, except for a brief mention of the 400K and 40K coverage requirements.....

 

I wonder what version made it into their print edition for today?  Did the bogus statistics graphic show up in the print version that went out to all their subscribers?

 

[Essex Reject]

What exactly is an O-A visa?

[RPCVguy]

A deposit such as is already mandated for long stay expats (retired and or married) already matched the amount mandated by the insurance, and they already have each one confirming residence addresses every 90 days and proving financial viability each year. This "Self-Insurance" approach allows the expat to best provide for their family or retirement without funneling lifelong benefits into the hands of a few corporations.
Not knowing how such a consequential change will play out is a new stress. Considering how I've added over ฿9 million to the local economy in my years here - it seems a rough, incompletely evaluated way to treat us.

This is the 3rd medical insurance article in the last week causing concerns because of the instability threatened for the expats like me who've married and put down roots (family network and homes.) There is also an issue of reporters and editors posting things without analyzing the details first - that is also an issue becoming prevalent in many nations. The facts of the articles don't match demographics, are not to be simply trusted. ????
The rates for me that are posted for the companies covering those over 70 (only 2 of the ones they refer to) will at best start at 15% growing to 30% of my fixed retirement benefits - for insurance that EXCLUDES a lifetime of preexisting conditions.
 

Among the many comments above, a few make a great deal of sense, more sense that the reporter. I'll repeat 2 here.
• Quote 1:

• Quote 2:

 

[EL159]

6 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

Where did you hear this from..I have just applied to Cigna for a quote...is there a list of approved foreign insurers out there somewhere?

I just can't believe that BUPA one of the health insurance giants would be dismissed as unsuitable???

 

To me, from what you say, the government wants everyone on their  crappy expensive policies to make a killing from us

Theres supposed to be a list of "recommended insurers" about six on there but does not include AETNA, but then again, "recommended" is not "statutory" I guess?

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

Where did you hear this from..I have just applied to Cigna for a quote...is there a list of approved foreign insurers out there somewhere?

I just can't believe that BUPA one of the health insurance giants would be dismissed as unsuitable???

 

To me, from what you say, the government wants everyone on their  crappy expensive policies to make a killing from us

There is a BUPA Thailand - so you can guarantee that BUPA will be accepted?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, ianezy0 said:

It does sound a lot.

But I guess if the Chinese, Indian, Russians etc. are also here on OA then the amount would be large??

The reported 30+ million O-A visa holder numbers are fake and bogus....  And The Nation has deleted that entire section from THEIR online version of the article.... though it remains in the TVF post at the top of this thread.

 

[oneton]

Many over 50's will have exclusions from insurance companies if they are honest about existing medical conditions. It may well be these conditions that they are hospitalized for. They will not be covered for these conditions. In this case making the scheme somewhat pointless.

Better they have the money in a secured account of some sort. (Which has been mentioned by MOPH, but no details so far)

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, hakancnx said:

Health Service Support Department director-general Dr Nattawuth Prasertsiripong

Just looking at his picture from an earlier TVF topic: They should get Linda Hunt to play his role in the movie.  https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1091985-public-hospitals-get-training-to-recover-payments-from-foreigners/

 

[ianezy0]

3 hours ago, Deerculler said:

This looks like new O-A applicants and current ones doing extensions?

I read it as the new OA applicants and those who will be renewing the visa. No mention of extension of stay....of course I could be totally confused ???? 

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

Is it an O-A ?

 

The obvious answer is - NO

Until after the meeting.

[Krataiboy]

A classic case of Problem Reaction Solution 

 

Problem Reaction Solution (Latin: Ordo ab Chao) is a mass mind control system. It is used to make changes to the law that the citizens would not accept otherwise. - Wikipedia

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, theboogeyman said:

 

No actually the hospital copies your name and passport number. I have to show them a picture of my passport on my iPhone every time I go. They keep very good records so I truly don’t understand how people even leave the hospital without settling the bill. If you were to just walk out without paying the hospital bill they’ll call the cops on you. So I don’t get how it’s even possible to accumulate that much debt from deadbeats who refuse to pay their hospital bills thereby making harder for the rest of us who do pay our bills.

 

 

Someone here like @NancyL might be able to explain better on this topic... But my guess is, at least some of these kinds of situations involve ones where the patient comes in unconscious or seriously injured, doesn't have any immediate family available, probably most often as a tourist (not O-A visa holder). And the govt. hospital has to treat them, can't just turn them away to die unattended.... And so then is in a position of trying to get their expenses back from family members abroad, etc etc....

 

My guess is, the vast majority of this problem is related to short-time tourist visitors, and not long-time resident O-A visa holders, who unlike other foreign visitor groups here, have to be able to afford to travel back to their home country to get a new O-A every year or two, and when they apply, have to show 800K in the bank or 65K in monthly income just in order to qualify for the O-A visa...  O-A visa holders generally speaking are NOT going to be the destitute ones.