Thai expats see incomes soar

[suzannegoh]

1 hour ago, toenail said:

The article doesn’t mention the high tax base the expats have to pay (depending on income bracket) with nothing in return. 

Often part of the package will be making you whole in regard to taxes.  What the MNC that I worked for would do is have you fill out a mock US income tax return to figure out how much tax you would have been paying if you were still in the US.  Then they (the company) would pay the Thai income tax and you would pay the company the an amount of money equal the amount that you would have paid if you were working in the US.  This was generally a good deal even if the local tax rates weren't higher than in the US because often the non-cash fringe benefits (such as car housing, education for kids) will be considered to be taxable income by either your home country or your host country.

Edited May 24, 2019 by suzannegoh

[SiSePuede419]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I just do not buy these numbers. An increase of 11% in salary? Who is seeing those kinds of increases? Certainly not with American companies where the increases are closer to 2-3% annually. In the US wages have barely kept up with inflation. 

I suspect these jobs are for scam artists.  No one is going to pay someone that much to work in a Thai automobile factory.  ????

[hotchilli]

These figures & job vacancies are at the top end of very few companies.

Only contractual for a very limited time frame... you're in, train someone to do your job & you're out.

To call them expats is extreme!

[Time Traveller]

10 hours ago, HeyHeyHey said:

Wait, an average mid level expat manager is raking 7.6 million THB a year in Thailand?

 

Where is the application form? I may reconsider working again.

Did you read the same article? Obviously not. 

[Time Traveller]

16 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

Often part of the package will be making you whole in regard to taxes.  What the MNC that I worked for would do is have you fill out a mock US income tax return to figure out how much tax you would have been paying if you were still in the US.  Then they (the company) would pay the Thai income tax and you would pay the company the an amount of money equal the amount that you would have paid if you were working in the US.  This was generally a good deal even if the local tax rates weren't higher than in the US because often the non-cash fringe benefits (such as car housing, education for kids) will be considered to be taxable income by either your home country or your host country.

What are you talking about?

If you live and work in Thailand. You pay Thai income taxes. Not US taxes.

Even if you did have an obligation to file US income tax assessement at the same time, you wouldn't pay anything because the Thai income tax rates are higher than US income tax rates (using foreign tax credits from Thai withholding tax on your salary) and as a non-resident for US taxes you would also qualify for Foreign income exemption on the first $110k of your Thai salary. 

Someone at your company is fooling you.

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Time Traveller

[KKr]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I just do not buy these numbers. An increase of 11% in salary? Who is seeing those kinds of increases? Certainly not with American companies where the increases are closer to 2-3% annually. In the US wages have barely kept up with inflation. 

 

to me it seems that a lot of highly skilled IT people are being brought in, amongst others by Lazada and Booking, that are skewing the statistics.
and I do agree that like for like statistics would probably be closer to the previous year's.

[Millcx]

Lies, Damn Lies ... Then Stats... Not a growing economy ... It’s a self destruct one

[baansgr]

How much of the package is for schooling, if the Expat has three kids all going to an international school, thats 60-70k US$ alone.

[suzannegoh]

What are you talking about?

If you live and work in Thailand. You pay Thai income taxes. Not US taxes.

Even if you did have an obligation to file US income tax assessement at the same time, you wouldn't pay anything because the Thai income tax rates are higher than US income tax rates (using foreign tax credits from Thai withholding tax on your salary) and as a non-resident for US taxes you would also qualify for Foreign income exemption on the first $110k of your Thai salary. 

Someone at your company is fooling you.

 

 

If you are a US citizen then the US taxes all of your income over about $100K worldwide. And if the you are on a temporary assignment in a foreign country (for instance you are sent from your company's heaquarters in the US to work two years in Bangkok, after which you will go back to work at the heaquarters in the US again) you may also need to pay taxes to a US State and to the Social Security & Medicare funds. There could be cases where foreign tax credits would make the US tax bill go to zero, but if the company wasn't stepping in to pay those foreign taxes you would end up paying on the fringe benefits in addition to your direct salary.

 

You might not like it or might not beleive me, but what the MNC that I worked for would do is have you (or rather their accountants) fill out a hypothetical US tax return to calculate how much tax you need to would be paying if the job was in the US and you weren't getting any fringe benefits, a real US income tax return that includes the cash value of any portion of the fringe benefits that are taxable, and a tax return for your host country. Then the company would pay the real amount of taxes owed to the US and to your host country less the amount that you would have been paying in taxes if you hadn't gone abroad. Possibly the company could turn a "profit" on that if you are working in a low-tax country such as Singapore, except that they wind up absorbing taxes on the fringe benefits.

 

 

 

 

[mikebell]

12 hours ago, bomber said:

i think the Brits will disagree ????

Meanwhile as a Brit pensioner, my state pension has been frozen for 11 years (I'm 76.)  When I first came the baht was at 73 to UKP; now I'd take 43!

[suzannegoh]

23 minutes ago, baansgr said:

How much of the package is for schooling, if the Expat has three kids all going to an international school, thats 60-70k US$ alone.

That's probably true, and that's a $60-70K expense that you probably wouldn't have if you were living in your home country instead of expatting.  Some of the other fringes are like that too.

[Srikcir]

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Thai expats see incomes soar

 

14 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“The Thai economy has continued to see an upward trend in recent years, with a steady and sustained increase in overseas business – and consequently, expatriate workers – to the nation." 

Just as a read, why the chart that shows no trend, no soaring and somewhat continuity with other selected (where's Indonesia and Malaysia?) SE Asian countries?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Srikcir
sentence

[user46546545]

A lot of rhetoric at work here- the numbers are not truly representative of the actual facts. The use of the term "wage increases" is pure fiction in reality. 

[barnsleyman]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Off topic, why'd you tell anyone where you were going, none of their business.

Hi BritManToo

I had already lived here for 5 years and Had to ask them to send me an application package to claim my State Pension.

 

[micmichd]

12 hours ago, HeyHeyHey said:

Wait, an average mid level expat manager is raking 7.6 million THB a year in Thailand?

 

Where is the application form? I may reconsider working again.

Try Linked In, with a qualified resume. And wait for headhunters. 

[Krataiboy]

14 hours ago, Pravda said:

Oh dear....this is gonna hit some nerve.

 

 

Better hide that chart from the missus!

[Billy The Kid]

Oh gawd , I’m feeling very poor .. ???? 

[micmichd]

36 minutes ago, mikebell said:

Meanwhile as a Brit pensioner, my state pension has been frozen for 11 years (I'm 76.)  When I first came the baht was at 73 to UKP; now I'd take 43!

You're not the only one. About all Westerners from the Eurozone living in Thailand get slightly expropriated by the Western cental banks' policy (ECB e.g.) of quantitative easing. Quantitative easing of Western fiat currencies in countries that have turned from producers to consumers for decades. 

This is the century of Asia, so take the decline of the West with a smile and make the best out of it. 

[micmichd]

16 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Better hide that chart from the missus!

Why? 

"The missus" should see that even in the West money doesn't grow on trees. Smart Thai women are aware of this. 

[madmitch]

I'd say these figures are as reliable as those produced by the Ministry of Tourism.

[sammieuk1]

Unfortunately my only hope of a package comes in the shape of a Bic C bag????

[Duck J Butters]

Better just to become a digital nomad and work for US tech companies that pay mid-six figures (10-year contracts at 12% annual increase ) + equity + bonuses and live beachfront in Thailand. The remote packages US tech companies are offering for you "not to live in the US" are far superior to what is posted above. You also don't have to bother with the Thai taxes since you're not working for a Thai company, don't need a work permit, and the work you are doing is for a different country. US tax is also minimal due to Foreign Earned Income Exclusion ( FEIE ). Your first $105k of salary earned while living abroad is federal-tax-free. At max, you're looking at 15% self-employment tax but even that can be avoided if you set up an offshore company in Singapore for example.

 

The real question is, with the way tech companies are going these days, why on Earth would anyone live in a Western country where the cost of living is absurd and you're getting reamed with 30% - 40% tax on your salary? Verus you can go live in Thailand, get paid exactly what you would get paid while living in the US ( makes no difference to tech companies, just need a computer ), pay 40,000 baht a month to live oceanfront in Phuket ... all while raking in 1 million baht a month at 12% to 15% tax to the US. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

Github, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Netflix are all working towards distributed and fully remote teams by 2024. I'm age 30 and work for one of the companies listed above, fully remote, from Phuket and have a 15-year contract locked in. Impossible to break the contract. 

 

Remote is the future and companies do not care where you live anymore. No one in their right mind would live in the US if they didn't have to. It's a huge disadvantage to live in the US or Europe these days. I can't speak for Europe but I can say with certainty that the US doesn't really have anything that Thailand doesn't have in 2019. Nothing really. Even Whole Foods is not a US perk anymore. Bangkok has Gourmet Market which is better. Phuket has Villa Market which is good enough. I would even argue that healthcare in Thailand is on par with the US.  I had some serious work done on my teeth last month in Phuket and was blown away by my Thai dentist. Extremely good work done and at 1/6th of what said work would have cost me in California. I mean who needs health insurance in Thailand at these prices?

 

Of course, you need to get a Thai wife so you can stay here forever on a marriage visa and avoid being put into the system via work permit. But that's easy enough to find. 

 

And no, Thailand has no interest in giving digital nomads the boot or taxing us. We bring massive amounts of money into the country, spend big wads of stupid cash, and employ lots of Thais. I've hired over 20 Thai programmers since I've been living in Thailand. Thailand needs more digital nomads if anything and should be doing everything they can to attract our attention.

 

https://remoteok.io/ Change your life and work from home, from anywhere you freaking want...dude. California Dreaming but in Thailand.

[sunnyboy2018]

12 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Did you even look at the graphs?  Or read the text?

 

Hong Kong’s expatriate pay packages continued to grow in 2018, with the average package costing companies US$276,417, including an average salary of US$86,984.

 

What's $87K out of a total $276K?   I get 31%...  Just about 1/3.  

 

Oh, and I asked my consulting engineer if it's okay to use fractions in today's modern world, and he said that most people understand fractions just fine.  I'm that consulting engineer, BTW- for the past 30 years.

 

and if you are from the UK you don't pay tax

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, KKr said:

to me it seems that a lot of highly skilled IT people are being brought in, amongst others by Lazada and Booking, that are skewing the statistics.

Probably not. If you look in stackoverflow for the jobs, somewhere in the 70-100k baht/month bracket. These are high level execs on full package, i.e. C-level or just below.

[CharlieH]

Derogatory remark removed.

[DrTuner]

47 minutes ago, Duck J Butters said:

Better just to become a digital nomad and work for US tech companies that pay mid-six figures (10-year contracts at 12% annual increase ) + equity + bonuses and live beachfront in Thailand.

And remember it's illegal to work in Thailand without a Thai work permit, which requires a Thai company, which requires BOI or four useless Thais on payroll and so on. Obviously most fly under the radar but with the way things are going these days, the day of reckoning is coming soon.

[bomber]

4 hours ago, barnsleyman said:

Hi everyone,I came to live in Pattaya 11 years & 3 Months ago, It's interesting where they get their facts from.

I am English,and I live on my Retirement State Pension & an Industrial Pension & my State pension was "Frozen" at the rate when I received it 6 years ago, but I do receive a small pay rise in my Industrial pension.

When I came here to live, the Exchange rate was 65 Baht for 1 English Pound,  now today it's 40.4 Baht to 1 English Pound.

A drop of about 36% in my Income 

cum back to england and enjoy your wonderful nation soon to unshackled from the EU,get back soon before it drops to 35????   yorkshire is true england according to nontabury ????

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, micmichd said:

Why? 

"The missus" should see that even in the West money doesn't grow on trees. Smart Thai women are aware of this. 

Believe me, when it comes to money nothing is smarter than a Thai woman. Including my missus.

[bomber]

2 hours ago, mikebell said:

Meanwhile as a Brit pensioner, my state pension has been frozen for 11 years (I'm 76.)  When I first came the baht was at 73 to UKP; now I'd take 43!

the bahts strenght took it to 52,everything after that is to do with brexit,some on here are loving it watching their incomes drop like whores knickers,they usually wear england shirts and have bald heads and bulldog/mam + dad/love + hate tatts shout out aloud when pisssttt thay they are "never going home" well i think many are unless thet decide to "jump" 

[wolf81]

32 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

And remember it's illegal to work in Thailand without a Thai work permit, which requires a Thai company, which requires BOI or four useless Thais on payroll and so on. Obviously most fly under the radar but with the way things are going these days, the day of reckoning is coming soon.

Who would know if you work from a home office? And if you're really scared of being snooped by Thai immigration, you could use a VPN. Personally, I doubt Thailand cares very much - at least for now. Anyways, with that kind of income it's easy enough to build a nice early pension quickly, provided one doesn't spent too much each month.

 

I work remotely as well and also for a US company as freelancer, but at the moment that equals only ~6.400 USD per month when working full-time (40 hours). I have to improve my negotiation technique somewhat it seems. Still it's plenty to live here and build some savings of course.