Elderly Mom with Alzheimer's Forced to Leave Thailand

[AdamTheFarang]

It does seem that Thailand is sending a clear message with the limit to visa runners etc that unless you have money they do not want you in the country.  It is the same in many countries and who is to say that they will not stop Retirement Visas and "Give Thailand Back To Thais" that I suspect would put many of the TV readers here in a mess. I lived in Thailand but never felt secure in terms of the ever changing Immigration rules. Thankfully I am going to a developed country where I can get citizenship and even financial help with moving and treated like an equal. All non-Thais are often treated like 2nd class citizens.

[1FinickyOne]

It sounds like you are already in motion to leave but have you checked medical assistance for visa? Is that a thing? I know they are prepared at hospitals to help with visa overstays for people who cannot get around...

 

Whatever happens, good luck - I had 2 parents with dementia in the USA and through the varying stages it was a total nightmare... so, you have my sympathies... 

[elliss]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:06 PM, BritTim said:

80,000 baht a month to a care facility employing only Thai staff is not nothing. The problem is that immigration want to see this as transfer from abroad into the lady's bank account rather than used for her care.

    

   80.000 baht a mounth  into a Thai care home ,, really ?. 

    I cant see why immi would need to be involved or notified .

     What is the worse care senario ?     

      Best of luck .

       

 

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by elliss

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, Sal Boto said:

As long as you are without assets doesnt the USA govt pay for Nursing homes?

Many of those poor people nursing homes are not where you would want a loved one to be... it is really sad.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

I'm aware that states do provide long-term care under Medicaid but you must lose most of your assets.  My sister receives long-term care under Medicaid but it is inadequate.  A lot of her care must be done by family members.  I would not like to be in her situation.  I have had friends who have wasted away 6-7 years after having strokes.  It's a boring way to go.  My fear is having to live on for many years when it is not comfortable to live.

In the case of the OP, her mother is not reported to be uncomfortable even though she is bedridden with a broken leg which, I suppose, is good.  I hope that the OP will report on her mother's situation once she is settled in the PI.   I wonder how she will monitor her mother's care once she returns to Thailand.

If a lot of her care is done by family members they are in a substandard nursing home.  There are State agencies to report these things to and they do get taken care of. 

[rwill]

Three valid ways to keep her mom here have been provided by different people.

1.  Have her as a dependent on his visa.

2. Get a medical visa.

3. Use an agent.

 

A fourth possible one was the Elite Visa.

Edited May 27, 2019 by rwill

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

Many of those poor people nursing homes are not where you would want a loved one to be... it is really sad.

Look up the State and report the substandard nursing homes.  The State comes in like storm troopers and changes things. 

[ericthai]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:39 AM, BadSpottedDog said:

Thank you! We would do that, but now immigration is saying that 400k has to stay in the bank account for the whole year! Moving my Mom in a year will be even more difficult with her condition, so all the plans are in motion to move her Tuesday. No one really knows how much more severe the changes will be. Better safe than sorry. ????

Cant you get her added as a dependent to your visa?

[BadSpottedDog]

21 hours ago, the guest said:

It's sad the USA do not look after its own citizens, must be a terrible place to live.

That's why we left. The cost of living is so unaffordable, and health care is ridiculously high. Mom had no options. While this issue is an expensive inconvenience, I'm still so glad we brought her to Asia. There are so many better options for her here. Even if it's not in Thailand.

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Your mom can get an extension as your dependent.

Assuming you have a valid VISA or extension.

For some reason immigration never suggest this, you have to tell them.

Yes .. we have mentioned this, and no one seems to "understand" what we're talking about. ???? So frustrating. Not to mention the unseen changes coming up.

[HuskerDo]

You are a good daughter. I wish all parents in need had dedicated children that took care of them like you do for your mom. God bless you!

[thaicurious]

I liked the idea of declaring dependence for immigration purposes and I'd go a step further by having a US court name you your mom's legal guardian. Basically you take your mom to court (I don't know if that can be done out of country) and have her declared incompetent (which does remove from her some of her rights that you can participate in deciding) so that the judge will then assign you guardianship over your mom. It is a difficult step but it solves a lot of ongoing issues of decision making & implementation.

 

I don't know but I'd imagine that would not be questioned by immigration.

 

Barring that, another poster had a great idea of moving money into her account offshore so that she can show bringing in the money. My first concern was tax issues but I think that would be considered medical gifting which has no limit so not taxed, but check me on that.

 

To self care for AD, I liked a poster's idea of a one way ticket to Switzerland because it isn't just a matter of affording good care, but of caring to go through that. No thank you. The problem though is taking such action while competent to make and carry out such decision which entails sacrificing some good life to avoid--depending on your level of lucidity during dementia--what could be quite a bit of undeserved misery. And a problem with Alzheimer's is that capacities tend to drop in steps, not in a smooth decline, so you could easily miss that window of opportunity to end such suffering. When you can't even count on suicide, a back-up plan is advisable.

 

Many of us go through similar experiences to the OP and as populations age given the longevity today, more and more such stories will be told. Hopefully societies will come together to deal with this in a better way as a cure is pretty much back where researchers were 30-40 years ago, only on the other side of square 1, they know more, but still not enough. That's a lot of years of saying the cure is just around the corner.

 

OP, the picture you shared of your mom couldn't be more bittersweet adorable. Best of luck to you.

[gk10002000]

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Maybe a solution would be to transfer the money to a bank account in Mum's name and then pay for the care from her account. I know it's all the same money at the end of the day but make the paperwork as easy as possible for the IO to understand and tick the box.

Yes, this has been suggested by several posters.  The OP said they were paying 80K baht a month for the Mom's care, so that certainly would be more than 65k income now needed by immigration.  It seems like a viable solution to me.  I have to assume that they have power of attorney for the Mom

[mike787]

Sorry Thai immigration is so stupid.  Sadly, we all have to deal with these idiots...wishing you much success, things may work out in the end...a door closes, a window opens...

[Maestro]

51 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

That's why we left. The cost of living is so unaffordable, and health care is ridiculously high. Mom had no options. While this issue is an expensive inconvenience, I'm still so glad we brought her to Asia. There are so many better options for her here. Even if it's not in Thailand.

Yes .. we have mentioned this, and no one seems to "understand" what we're talking about. ???? So frustrating.

That would be clause 2.20(5) of Police Order 327/2557, I believe.

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/0BwNib_gx9zYENnNteTQ1ZmlEYW8?sort=13&direction=a

[BadSpottedDog]

15 hours ago, graemeaylward said:

Dear Bad Spotted Dog, thank you so much for sharing this sad situation with us at such a difficult time for you and your family. Which one of us, faced with a parent with Alzheimer's, or any terminal illness, would not want the best for them. I love Thailand, but sadly, I do find that their is very little human compassion when it comes to situations like this. Immigration, it would appear, are happy to bend the rules when it comes to filling their back pockets, especially through dubious agents, but when it comes to advising and helping those in genuine need, they are strangely silent. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your mother as you embark on yet another stressful journey.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

What a profound, compassionate, and accurate statement. Thank you ❤️

[whaleboneman]

Dear BSD. My elderly mother in Canada had home-care workers come to her apartment three or four times a day in the last few years of her life. Most of them were Pilipinas. They were the most loving and caring women that I have ever come across. They all called her "mom" and they all took great care of her.

I believe that your mom will be in good hands in the Philippines. All the best.

[shy coconut]

On 5/26/2019 at 3:06 PM, BadSpottedDog said:

What!? I think you missed some of this. We are paying EIGHTY SIX THOUSAND baht per MONTH for her care, plus meeting our own financial requirements for immigration. 86k per month is way way over the 65k requirement for her, but immigration does not recognize this because it is coming from us and not a foreign source. 

Can you not transfer the 86k to her account from overseas, then arrange payment to the care facility?

 

I do sympathize with your situation and hope you arrive at a good all round

conclusion.

Edited May 27, 2019 by shy coconut

[Tomahawk21]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:33 PM, darrendsd said:

Unfortunately everyone has to satisfy the Immigration requirements no matter what their situation is

 

Put the 800K in the bank for her- if you can't afford that then use a agent who will charge you around 20K - if you don't know any agents i'm sure there are people on here who will be happy to supply you one

 

Hope it all works out and good luck

yes use an agent many people here do. good luck.

[BadSpottedDog]

13 hours ago, Sal Boto said:

As long as you are without assets doesnt the USA govt pay for Nursing homes?

If you make under $600 per month, yes. Medicaid will pay. But her social security is more than that. ????

[CharlieH]

Now running in the news......

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1103166-alzheimers-patient-forced-out-of-thailand-daughter-tells-thaivisa-they-love-thailand-but-immigration-rule-changes-mean-mum-must-go/page/2/

[graemeaylward]

What a profound, compassionate, and accurate statement. Thank you [emoji173]️

You are welcome. Please keep me informed as to how things go. Praying for you all.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[CM Dad]

Apply for a medical visa.  This kind of visa is only good for 90 days, but can be extended every 90 days indefinitely.  It requires a letter from the care facility and a photo of the person being cared for in the facility, one that would confirm her condition, not one where she is all dressed up with her hair freshly done.  The 90-day report is still needed even though the visa stamps are only for 90 days at a time.  A doctors letter verifying her condition will probably also be required.  A medical visa does not require 65K in income nor 800,000 in the bank.

[ubonjoe]

Again some off topic inflammatory posts have been removed.

[Chongalulu]

Having had my mother suffer from advanced dementia in her early 70s I can only hope the ultimate solution arrives sooner rather than later. After her death we realised it was the best outcome for ALL concerned including her.

You May think I’m being unkind now,but I’m not and you’ll realise that afterwards 

[TProphet]

Your mom doesn't have any savings and only receives Social Security. Given this, she's eligible to be declared a public charge and receive Medicaid, which will pay for nursing home care.

 

You are correct that the maximum income is $600 per month. The way this works in practice is that she'll still get Social Security, and the nursing home will take all but $600 of it. She can spend the remainder how she likes. In other words, you're not ineligible to go on Medicaid with only Social Security income, you're just not allowed to keep more than $600/mo of it once you go on Medicaid.

 

Here in Washington state, the Department of Social and Health Services has a unit that deals with cases like these and can coordinate care. I'm not sure what the right resources are in your home state but returning to the US isn't impossible and her care would be fully covered by Medicaid. It'll require a trip there to fill out the paperwork and the quality of care is likely to be (slightly) better than in The Philippines.

Edited May 28, 2019 by TProphet

[elliss]

13 hours ago, elliss said:

    

   80.000 baht a mounth  into a Thai care home ,, really ?. 

    I cant see why immi would need to be involved or notified .

     What is the worse care senario ?     

      Best of luck .

       

 

 

 

   New thread informs us ,  the Lady must leave Thailand.

  Thx  immigration   , 

 

 

[Kasane]

I am not sure why the ill lady is not on Medicaid in USA. She has contributed her whole life to Medicare fund, and now that she is ill she in entitled to Medicaid. I am not sure why the family is not pursuing this course. It the most compassionate approach. 

Not sure why the family thinks that Thailand, in which they are temporary visitors, should provide some support to the terminally ill patient. Whereas, USA, with the most advanced medical system should shun their terminally ill citizen who has funded the same medical system all her life.

Thailand is a relatively poor country. Spare her the terminally ill patients of foreign lands. 

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, Kasane said:

am not sure why the ill lady is not on Medicaid in USA. She has contributed her whole life to Medicare fund, and now that she is ill she in entitled to Medicaid. I am not sure why the family is not pursuing this course. It the most compassionate approach. 

Not sure why the family thinks that Thailand, in which they are temporary visitors, should provide some support to the terminally ill patient. Whereas, USA, with the most advanced medical system should shun their terminally ill citizen who has funded the same medical system all her life.

Thailand is a relatively poor country. Spare her the terminally ill patients of foreign lands.

America does not have the best medical care in the World only the most expensive.

If you read the  OP statement- they are not asking Thailand to pay for anything-simply give her mother credit on her Immigration extension for the 86,000 Baht that is being paid to the hospice facility.  

If the USA believed that medical care was a human right they would allow Medicare which someone has paid for their whole life to be used anywhere in the World.

 

Thai Immigration could easily make an exception for this person who is so ill.  It wouldn't cost them a thing.  It's called being human and having some empathy- something in short supply in this World.

[Sheryl]

18 hours ago, rwill said:

Three valid ways to keep her mom here have been provided by different people.

1.  Have her as a dependent on his visa.

2. Get a medical visa.

3. Use an agent.

 

A fourth possible one was the Elite Visa.

 

They have said they can't afford 800K so they can hardly afford Elite Visa.

 

Medical requires doctor's certificate that the patient is unable to travel which is obviously not the case.

 

But the dependent visa would indeed seem an option.

[Sheryl]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:06 PM, BadSpottedDog said:

What!? I think you missed some of this. We are paying EIGHTY SIX THOUSAND baht per MONTH for her care, plus meeting our own financial requirements for immigration. 86k per month is way way over the 65k requirement for her, but immigration does not recognize this because it is coming from us and not a foreign source. 

 

On 5/26/2019 at 9:13 PM, madmen said:

Send the money back to your home country and resend it back to her Bank account every month. They don't care who sends it as long as its in her account every month.

You can then bank transfer to her care center or pull the money out via debit card 

 

Exactly. And presumably a portion of that 86K is already coming from abroad in the form of her SS. Probably something like 20-30K of the 86k.

 

Arrange to bring in funds monthly to make up the difference and equal 65K, even if it means you first move funds out of Thailand and then back in. Seems silly but that is how it works.

 

Are you aware of the combo method?  You can also use her SS income from abroad plus a lump sum in the bank would would then be 800k minus the annual total of her SS. Depending on her SS amount would likely reduce the lump sum needed in the bank to 400-500K baht.

 

As she seems happy where she is would certainly be better to avoid moving her.

 

Other option as others have mentioned is a dependent 'O' visa piggybacked onto yours. That has no financial requirements.