UK ever more polarised as Brexit Party storms to EU vote win

[twocatsmac]

On 5/27/2019 at 6:00 PM, twocatsmac said:

Alastair Campbell. An intelligent man no doubt, accused Farage of being a liar recently on the BBC, a dubious, hardly impartial corporation.

His spin propped up his croney B liar and began the destruction of Middle Eastern countries, conning, lies and false information all in a days work. 

Blood on his hands but not an ounce of regret or shame shown.

Hes not really a credible commentator with regards to honesty.

He’s been expelled from his murderous, two faced party. I’ve never had more contempt for a politician (he is a politician) than I have for this man. 

When the going got tough he not only deserted his party but he campaigned against them. 

Ive great faith in English and British politicians of conviction this man questions everyone’s beliefs, a true devil.

 

[Chelseafan]

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

As Sheungwan hasnt go back to me and as you agree with him, maybe you could explain who the hard brexiteers are who are pretending that the center doesnt exist ?

  Who are the people that he was referring to ?

As I stated before, I've not said anything about hard brexiteers. You cannot assume that all those who voted for the Brexit party want a hard brexit. All you can assume is that they want out either with a deal or without.

 

[Chelseafan]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

All the people that are aiming or hoping for a soft brexit are the center. The brexiteers on here are all saying 'soft brexit doesn't get us out, brexit means hard brexit'. So they are the ones saying the center doesn't exist.

I disagree. I voted Brexit but I would not classify myself as a hard brexiteer only that I want out. I would prefer it was amicable and some sort of deal was put in place (certainly not TM's one) but if we can't come to agreement then so be it.

As I see it, the center were the tories and labour which have been deserted for other left and right wing parties.

 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

All the people that are aiming or hoping for a soft brexit are the center. The brexiteers on here are all saying 'soft brexit doesn't get us out, brexit means hard brexit'. So they are the ones saying the center doesn't exist.

OK , we are not being dishonest at saying that a soft Brexit doesnt exist 

We acknowledge its existence , just saying that that isnt what people voted for 

[stevenl]

24 minutes ago, sanemax said:

OK , we are not being dishonest at saying that a soft Brexit doesnt exist 

We acknowledge its existence , just saying that that isnt what people voted for 

There was no choice offered between soft and hard brexit, but that doesn't mean the automatic choice was hard brexit. Only hard brexiteers believe that.

[Basil B]

46 minutes ago, twocatsmac said:

He’s been expelled from his murderous, two faced party. I’ve never had more contempt for a politician (he is a politician) than I have for this man. 

When the going got tough he not only deserted his party but he campaigned against them. 

Ive great faith in English and British politicians of conviction this man questions everyone’s beliefs, a true devil.

 

Thing is he did not campaign against Labour in the run up to last weeks elections, He made claims on Friday, then on Sunday, and again yesterday that he had voted Lib/Dem on Thursday, not unlike a number of tories who publicly said in the days running up to the election that they would be voting Lib/dem, encouraging others to follow suit. 

 

If true they kicked him out for voting Lib/Dem how can they prove he actually did? of course they could kick him out because he said he did, but I suspect this is more to do with his remark that Labour/Corbyn are trying to ride both horses in a two horse race. 

 

Do not shoot the messenger, he was only trying to point out why Labour got a good thrashing on Thursday.

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

There was no choice offered between soft and hard brexit, but that doesn't mean the automatic choice was hard brexit. Only hard brexiteers believe that.

   "Hard" Brexit means to leave completely 

  "Soft" Brexit means to half leave .

People voted to leave .

Soft Brexit is a concept thought up by Remainers who dont want to leave at all 

[tebee]

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

   "Hard" Brexit means to leave completely 

  "Soft" Brexit means to half leave .

People voted to leave .

Soft Brexit is a concept thought up by Remainers who dont want to leave at all 

But surely, since the result was nearly 50-50, the democratic solution to accommodate  both sides would have been some sort of soft brexit.

 

Democracy is not about tyranny of the majority .

[RickBradford]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

But surely, since the result was nearly 50-50, the democratic solution to accommodate  both sides would have been some sort of soft brexit.

 

Democracy is not about tyranny of the majority .

A compromise which would annoy both Remainers (because they wanted to stay in the EU) and Leavers (who wanted a clean break).

 

Democracy is also not about tyranny of the minority. The Remain side lost, and democracy itself is threatened if the losing side doesn't accept defeat.

[Chelseafan]

But surely, since the result was nearly 50-50, the democratic solution to accommodate  both sides would have been some sort of soft brexit.
 
Democracy is not about tyranny of the majority .

It was nearly 52-48 with over a million more people (can't remember the exact fjgure) voting to leave than remain. Surely that's democracy.
It's the remainers who have been demonic in not abiding by the result and doing everything they can to overturn a valid decision.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Chelseafan]

Thing is he did not campaign against Labour in the run up to last weeks elections, He made claims on Friday, then on Sunday, and again yesterday that he had voted Lib/Dem on Thursday, not unlike a number of tories who publicly said in the days running up to the election that they would be voting Lib/dem, encouraging others to follow suit. 
 
If true they kicked him out for voting Lib/Dem how can they prove he actually did? of course they could kick him out because he said he did, but I suspect this is more to do with his remark that Labour/Corbyn are trying to ride both horses in a two horse race. 
 
Do not shoot the messenger, he was only trying to point out why Labour got a good thrashing on Thursday.

Not only that are they going to kick out every Labour supporter who on this occasion didn't support them?
Got to be consistant with these decisions


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, Chelseafan said:

Not only that are they going to kick out every Labour supporter who on this occasion didn't support them?
Got to be consistant with these decisions


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

if you are a party member they are coming for you with a lie detector... ????

[stevenl]

43 minutes ago, sanemax said:

   "Hard" Brexit means to leave completely 

  "Soft" Brexit means to half leave .

People voted to leave .

Soft Brexit is a concept thought up by Remainers who dont want to leave at all 

Again that discussion. The choice was unclear, unless you want to claim that everyone who voted brexit did not want some kind of customs union.

 

And following your reasoning, half leave implies leave.

[fishtank]

1 hour ago, twocatsmac said:

 

Ive great faith in English and British politicians of conviction this man questions everyone’s beliefs, a true devil.

 

Nigel Farage.?

I quite agree.

[fishtank]

3 hours ago, Thairealist said:

 

 Millions who voted to join the trading block in 1975,called the EEC have come to realise they were lied to and basically conned by the establishment. And have now decided to right a wrong, 

Any proof on this assumption.

[sanemax]

Just now, stevenl said:

Again that discussion. The choice was unclear, unless you want to claim that everyone who voted brexit did not want some kind of customs union.

No, I cannot claim to know what 17 million people wanted and its quite likely that they all didnt want the same thing . But then again , anyone who wanted to remain in the customs union would probably have voted to remain completely 

[fishtank]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Another casualty of the EU elections, that nice man Alistair Campbell has been expelled from the Labour Party, apparently they didn't like him voting Lib/Dem. ????????????

Many Labour and Con voters did the same.

[RickBradford]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Again that discussion. The choice was unclear, unless you want to claim that everyone who voted brexit did not want some kind of customs union.

 

And following your reasoning, half leave implies leave.

Come on.

 

If you don't leave the Customs Union, you haven't left the EU.

 

Along with the free movement of people and the jurisdiction of the European Court, it is one of the 3 red lines which mark being in, or out, of the EU.

 

It was clearly understood.

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No, I cannot claim to know what 17 million people wanted and its quite likely that they all didnt want the same thing . But then again , anyone who wanted to remain in the customs union would probably have voted to remain completely 

As you implied, leave includes half leave.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Come on.

 

If you don't leave the Customs Union, you haven't left the EU.

 

Along with the free movement of people and the jurisdiction of the European Court, it is one of the 3 red lines which mark being in, or out, of the EU.

 

It was clearly understood.

Nonsense. Maybe to you, far from to all. 

Anybody claiming differently has blinders on.

[sanemax]

Just now, stevenl said:

As you implied, leave includes half leave.

I didnt mean to imply that .

They are two different things 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

As you implied, leave includes half leave.

You mean a bit like being half pregnant? There is no such thing as half leave, there are many forms of remain, but only one leave.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

You mean a bit like being half pregnant? There is no such thing as half leave, there are many forms of remain, but only one leave.

Yes, reasoned as a hard brexiteer.

One could with just as much arguments reason that there is no such thing as half remain, but many forms of leave, but only one remain.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, reasoned as a hard brexiteer.

One could with just as much arguments reason that there is no such thing as half remain, but many forms of leave, but only one remain.

If we keep paying the membership fees, we haven't left.

How easy was that?

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, reasoned as a hard brexiteer.

One could with just as much arguments reason that there is no such thing as half remain, but many forms of leave, but only one remain.

If you stand in the middle of the road you will get run over at some point.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If we keep paying the membership fees, we haven't left.

How easy was that?

 

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you stand in the middle of the road you will get run over at some point.

All nice reasoning showing your stance. But not showing how the referendum was set up and what people voted for.

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, reasoned as a hard brexiteer.

One could with just as much arguments reason that there is no such thing as half remain, but many forms of leave, but only one remain.

Well , no , theres either  completely leave or completely remain .

Anything else would be something between the two 

If we were to half leave , that would just be remaining under different agreements 

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Well , no , theres either  completely leave or completely remain .

Anything else would be something between the two 

If we were to half leave , that would just be remaining under different agreements 

Sorry, you're not adding anything new to the discussion. 

[vogie]

25 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

All nice reasoning showing your stance. But not showing how the referendum was set up and what people voted for.

The majority of the country voted to leave, and whilst I concede that one foot stuck in Barniers office door might be construed as remaining, it is certainly not leaving. It is like going on your holidays to Torremolinos and ending up at Clacton.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

But surely, since the result was nearly 50-50, the democratic solution to accommodate  both sides would have been some sort of soft brexit.

 

Democracy is not about tyranny of the majority .

So if Remain won 52-48 you would accept a soft Remain ? You would compromise with some of the Leavers demands because it was close? Maybe just let us leave the customs union...

 

Or would you just claim you won and put the question to bed?

 

No need to reply by the way. We all know the answer.