First ( and last) visit to Pattaya T21

[JSixpack]

14 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Are Central Marina and central festival mall most of their stores  fully overloaded with shoppers?

So therefore they had to make another new nearby mega mall with many shops so to re-direct these shoppers towards? I doubt that’s the case.

No shoppers have ever been seen in CentralMarina or CentralFestival, just people wandering about enjoying free aircon. Those malls were and are entirely superfluous since Pattaya already had Royal Garden. TVF Poster Economics dictates that Only One Is Needed.

So while you’re right to “doubt,” you’ll need delve deeper to find the real reason the present location is optimal—a reason acceptable to the peanut gallery, the elite Tea Money Chorus, and our countless Brown Envelope Bots. It must be based on sound, well-established principles.

 

First, know the history. The great Mall Existence Paradox had bewildered ordinary TVF posters for many years as each new mall after Royal Garden violated the Only One Is Needed rule.

But much more: each also violated the core principle of Fixed Pie. Fixed Pie holds that Thailand has no economic growth, no birthrate, and no upward mobility for anyone. The beneficent Golden Egg Layers, supplying the resources for all previous growth, left in 2003 after the INSANE rise in visa fees. Those few remaining are all moving to other countries where they're welcomed just for being themselves. The Russians left, Chinese don’t spend, Indians all share 5 to a room, and domestic tourism doesn’t exist. Therefore the supply of money and consumers has been forever fixed. So what we have left is just a shell game throughout the economy. A shiny new mall couldn’t possibly cannibalize enough from others to be profitable in Jomtien or anywhere else. Simple--but utterly bewildering.

Well, our most distinguished ace TVFP Economists eventually came up with the eminently satisfying explanation: malls exist in Thailand for the purposes of (1) selling advertising to mall shops with no shoppers, (2) selling free aircon, and most importantly for (3) money laundering.
 
Obviously CentralMarina and CentralFestival combined didn’t provide enough space for new money laundering--Chinese money laundering no doubt. They were maxed out. Hence the wise decision to locate T21 right where it is near the concentration of businesses, banks, and government entities involved in all the laundering. It’s within easy walking distance of City Hall in fact. Perfect, no?

 

Quote

 We all know if they had balls it would have been built at Jomtien seaside which would be much more accessible for vehicles  too.

And this was said (by at least one other ace expert) about CentralFestival as well. The cool thing about moving the malls to Jomtien is that it would leave Pattaya looking more like it did before 1995 when everything was perfect. Expats living in the weeds around Pattaya and posting sour grapes could then finally move downtown. Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, and Soi Buakhao would have far less traffic. Sois 7 and 8 would revive. The old fave beer bars could be reconstructed on Beach Road. Life in Pattaya would be good again, attracting quality tourists.

The Avenue, however, followed your admired Balls Over Profits approach to location and construction. Turns out that shoppers lack the balls to cross 2nd Rd and visit a mall with no aircon. With that lesson in mind, the shareholders of L&H, a publicly traded company, surely demanded the wimpy ol’ Profits Over Balls to protect and grow their investments. You aren’t really an investor, are you?

Still, balls were required to erect something that big in that location given the state of Pattaya’s infrastructure. So there’s that for you. CPN, following the same approach, paid the city to upgrade the electric grid before it finished erecting CentralFestival. Maybe L&H will pay for a traffic light at 2nd & Nua. ????

 

Quote

Pattaya doesn’t need more traffic from mall crowds.

In fairness, the TVF Urban Planning Bureau, with its finger on all of Pattaya’s “needs,” hasn’t approved the construction of anything since the planning of Royal Garden in 1992, the greatest ever mall because of its food court action. Closely adhering to the No Change rule of TVFP Economics, the Bureau has over the years dutifully condemned Hooters, the ferry, the Tunnel, the beach refill, the Promenade, burying wires, the idea of high speed rail etc. etc.  

 

T21 then merely joins a very long list of egregious violators. As noted, Pattaya’s traffic needs formed no part of the decision to put T21 right there, replacing that crumbling old arcade much to the relief of creditors and the tax revenue office.

Nevertheless, it seems the mall crowds of aircon seekers disagree with your needs assessment just as L&H analysts knew they would. Obviously, most of these seekers don’t live in Pattaya. I suppose you may carry a sign and hand out educational brochures if you wish.

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by JSixpack

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

No shoppers have ever been seen in CentralMarina or CentralFestival, just people wandering about enjoying free aircon. Those malls were and are entirely superfluous since Pattaya already had Royal Garden. TVF Poster Economics dictates that Only One Is Needed.

So while you’re right to “doubt,” you’ll need delve deeper to find the real reason the present location is optimal—a reason acceptable to the peanut gallery, the elite Tea Money Chorus, and our countless Brown Envelope Bots. It must be based on sound, well-established principles.

 

First, know the history. The great Mall Existence Paradox had bewildered ordinary TVF posters for many years as each new mall after Royal Garden violated the Only One Is Needed rule.

But much more: each also violated the core principle of Fixed Pie. Fixed Pie holds that Thailand has no economic growth, no birthrate, and no upward mobility for anyone. The beneficent Golden Egg Layers, supplying the resources for all previous growth, left in 2003 after the INSANE rise in visa fees. Those few remaining are all moving to other countries where they're welcomed just for being themselves. The Russians left, Chinese don’t spend, Indians all share 5 to a room, and domestic tourism doesn’t exist. Therefore the supply of money and consumers has been forever fixed. So what we have left is just a shell game throughout the economy. A shiny new mall couldn’t possibly cannibalize enough from others to be profitable in Jomtien or anywhere else. Simple--but utterly bewildering.

Well, our most distinguished ace TVFP Economists eventually came up with the eminently satisfying explanation: malls exist in Thailand for the purposes of (1) selling advertising to mall shops with no shoppers, (2) selling free aircon, and most importantly for (3) money laundering.
 
Obviously CentralMarina and CentralFestival combined didn’t provide enough space for new money laundering--Chinese money laundering no doubt. They were maxed out. Hence the wise decision to locate T21 right where it is near the concentration of businesses, banks, and government entities involved in all the laundering. It’s within easy walking distance of City Hall in fact. Perfect, no?

 

And this was said (by at least one other ace expert) about CentralFestival as well. The cool thing about moving the malls to Jomtien is that it would leave Pattaya looking more like it did before 1995 when everything was perfect. Expats living in the weeds around Pattaya and posting sour grapes could then finally move downtown. Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, and Soi Buakhao would have far less traffic. Sois 7 and 8 would revive. The old fave beer bars could be reconstructed on Beach Road. Life in Pattaya would be good again, attracting quality tourists.

The Avenue, however, followed your admired Balls Over Profits approach to location and construction. Turns out that shoppers lack the balls to cross 2nd Rd and visit a mall with no aircon. With that lesson in mind, the shareholders of L&H, a publicly traded company, surely demanded the wimpy ol’ Profits Over Balls to protect and grow their investments. You aren’t really an investor, are you?

Still, balls were required to erect something that big in that location given the state of Pattaya’s infrastructure. So there’s that for you. CPN, following the same approach, paid the city to upgrade the electric grid before it finished erecting CentralFestival. Maybe L&H will pay for a traffic light at 2nd & Nua. ????

 

In fairness, the TVF Urban Planning Bureau, with its finger on all of Pattaya’s “needs,” hasn’t approved the construction of anything since the planning of Royal Garden in 1992, the greatest ever mall because of its food court action. Closely adhering to the No Change rule of TVFP Economics, the Bureau has over the years dutifully condemned Hooters, the ferry, the Tunnel, the beach refill, the Promenade, burying wires, the idea of high speed rail etc. etc.  

 

T21 then merely joins a very long list of egregious violators. As noted, Pattaya’s traffic needs formed no part of the decision to put T21 right there, replacing that crumbling old arcade much to the relief of creditors and the tax revenue office.

Nevertheless, it seems the mall crowds of aircon seekers disagree with your needs assessment just as L&H analysts knew they would. Obviously, most of these seekers don’t live in Pattaya. I suppose you may carry a sign and hand out educational brochures if you wish.

 

And do not forget following in the footstep's of " Save the Whales" the proper protection of an animal species was pardoned. They decided to Save the Dolphins at the roundabout.

Or, 3/4 about or whatever it can be described as.

Thank goodness..

[Destiny1990]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

No shoppers have ever been seen in CentralMarina or CentralFestival, just people wandering about enjoying free aircon. Those malls were and are entirely superfluous since Pattaya already had Royal Garden. TVF Poster Economics dictates that Only One Is Needed.

So while you’re right to “doubt,” you’ll need delve deeper to find the real reason the present location is optimal—a reason acceptable to the peanut gallery, the elite Tea Money Chorus, and our countless Brown Envelope Bots. It must be based on sound, well-established principles.

 

First, know the history. The great Mall Existence Paradox had bewildered ordinary TVF posters for many years as each new mall after Royal Garden violated the Only One Is Needed rule.

But much more: each also violated the core principle of Fixed Pie. Fixed Pie holds that Thailand has no economic growth, no birthrate, and no upward mobility for anyone. The beneficent Golden Egg Layers, supplying the resources for all previous growth, left in 2003 after the INSANE rise in visa fees. Those few remaining are all moving to other countries where they're welcomed just for being themselves. The Russians left, Chinese don’t spend, Indians all share 5 to a room, and domestic tourism doesn’t exist. Therefore the supply of money and consumers has been forever fixed. So what we have left is just a shell game throughout the economy. A shiny new mall couldn’t possibly cannibalize enough from others to be profitable in Jomtien or anywhere else. Simple--but utterly bewildering.

Well, our most distinguished ace TVFP Economists eventually came up with the eminently satisfying explanation: malls exist in Thailand for the purposes of (1) selling advertising to mall shops with no shoppers, (2) selling free aircon, and most importantly for (3) money laundering.
 
Obviously CentralMarina and CentralFestival combined didn’t provide enough space for new money laundering--Chinese money laundering no doubt. They were maxed out. Hence the wise decision to locate T21 right where it is near the concentration of businesses, banks, and government entities involved in all the laundering. It’s within easy walking distance of City Hall in fact. Perfect, no?

 

And this was said (by at least one other ace expert) about CentralFestival as well. The cool thing about moving the malls to Jomtien is that it would leave Pattaya looking more like it did before 1995 when everything was perfect. Expats living in the weeds around Pattaya and posting sour grapes could then finally move downtown. Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, and Soi Buakhao would have far less traffic. Sois 7 and 8 would revive. The old fave beer bars could be reconstructed on Beach Road. Life in Pattaya would be good again, attracting quality tourists.

The Avenue, however, followed your admired Balls Over Profits approach to location and construction. Turns out that shoppers lack the balls to cross 2nd Rd and visit a mall with no aircon. With that lesson in mind, the shareholders of L&H, a publicly traded company, surely demanded the wimpy ol’ Profits Over Balls to protect and grow their investments. You aren’t really an investor, are you?

Still, balls were required to erect something that big in that location given the state of Pattaya’s infrastructure. So there’s that for you. CPN, following the same approach, paid the city to upgrade the electric grid before it finished erecting CentralFestival. Maybe L&H will pay for a traffic light at 2nd & Nua. ????

 

In fairness, the TVF Urban Planning Bureau, with its finger on all of Pattaya’s “needs,” hasn’t approved the construction of anything since the planning of Royal Garden in 1992, the greatest ever mall because of its food court action. Closely adhering to the No Change rule of TVFP Economics, the Bureau has over the years dutifully condemned Hooters, the ferry, the Tunnel, the beach refill, the Promenade, burying wires, the idea of high speed rail etc. etc.  

 

T21 then merely joins a very long list of egregious violators. As noted, Pattaya’s traffic needs formed no part of the decision to put T21 right there, replacing that crumbling old arcade much to the relief of creditors and the tax revenue office.

Nevertheless, it seems the mall crowds of aircon seekers disagree with your needs assessment just as L&H analysts knew they would. Obviously, most of these seekers don’t live in Pattaya. I suppose you may carry a sign and hand out educational brochures if you wish.

 

Why They build a megamall in order to attract people only going to the food court?

Just build the food court instead.

[JayBird]

Shoes are Mrs P's weakness, but she will not buy anything over 500 Bhat and then wonders why they fall to bits in two weeks.  Still, she is cheapish to run. 

If the shoes last 2 weeks, that's 25 pairs a year.

500x25 = 12,500 a year in shoes.

Better off buying a really good pair for 6k that lasts two years.

[JayBird]

didn't try to cover it all, too bored with the whole thing. 

I think the fact that before you went you were already having the conclusion and negative sentiment meant anything short of OMG!!!! Would have yielded a negative experience.

It's not the mall that's bad, you just don't care for malls [emoji14]

[JayBird]

Presumably prior to that you enjoyed spitting in the hotel ? [emoji16]

The classy joints have a spitoon.

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, JayBird said:

The classy joints have a spitoon.
 

Love it, even on a forum people can or should enjoy a bit of light hearted banter.

[ncc1701d]

Went to the “first class” flix there and it was not as good as central. Smaller drinks and much smaller screens. Didn’t really look around at anything else. 

[JSixpack]

On 6/4/2019 at 2:26 PM, Destiny1990 said:

Why They build a megamall in order to attract people only going to the food court?

Just build the food court instead.

You’re confusing the eaters with the aircon seekers. TVFPE (TVF Poster Economics) really isn’t clear on why a mall should go to such lengths to attract the latter. My proposal is always rejected that we consider it just one o' them "mysteries of the Orient" and move on.

But, to extrapolate, first recall that the malls are selling advertising to the shops, notably in the form of brand name recognition. So the brand names get a lot of views from aircon seekers even though the branded shops may not even exist outside of malls—which, after all, have no shoppers, only aircon seekers who are only Looking Not Buying. (TVFPE doesn’t recognize the concept of Looking Before Buying. For a shop to be deemed successful, customers must be seen lined up at the cashier at any random interval. If not, then it never has any customers at any time and is “struggling.”)

Now, me, I’d say this really makes no sense, but I’m telling you the theory. I’d cite posts from the past for you to argue with, but my doing so upsets the authors for some reason and I’d be reported for being “inflammatory” and chastised for violating a non-existent rule about “old posts.”

Second, consider the main reason for a mall’s existence in Thailand according to TVFPE—money laundering. Food courts, now, are not money launderers, because our posters always see customers buying food and eating food in them. Very simply, then, the laundering requires a variety of shops and people walking around looking like shoppers, even though our ace economists know that they aren’t really shoppers, based on authoritative shopping bag count econometrics.
 

So, as our members never tire of pointing out happening so often in all areas of Thai life, the appearance disguises the corrupt reality. A most satisfying explanation, no?

 

[scubascuba3]

I go to T21 several times a week, i like the food court now, I didn't originally, it's trial and error finding the food you like, it can even vary in the same booth but different chef. It's best avoided when very busy such as weekends and yet another holiday.

 

The shops are a mystery, aimed at tourists and are mostly empty, the only thing that's doing really well is the food court

 

 

[johng]

I've eaten in the food court a few times...good portions, good taste and cheap..the only problem its always very crowded.....my wife insists on going on weekends and long holidays !!
[emoji30]

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, JSixpack said:

You’re confusing the eaters with the aircon seekers. TVFPE (TVF Poster Economics) really isn’t clear on why a mall should go to such lengths to attract the latter. My proposal is always rejected that we consider it just one o' them "mysteries of the Orient" and move on.

But, to extrapolate, first recall that the malls are selling advertising to the shops, notably in the form of brand name recognition. So the brand names get a lot of views from aircon seekers even though the branded shops may not even exist outside of malls—which, after all, have no shoppers, only aircon seekers who are only Looking Not Buying. (TVFPE doesn’t recognize the concept of Looking Before Buying. For a shop to be deemed successful, customers must be seen lined up at the cashier at any random interval. If not, then it never has any customers at any time and is “struggling.”)

Now, me, I’d say this really makes no sense, but I’m telling you the theory. I’d cite posts from the past for you to argue with, but my doing so upsets the authors for some reason and I’d be reported for being “inflammatory” and chastised for violating a non-existent rule about “old posts.”

Second, consider the main reason for a mall’s existence in Thailand according to TVFPE—money laundering. Food courts, now, are not money launderers, because our posters always see customers buying food and eating food in them. Very simply, then, the laundering requires a variety of shops and people walking around looking like shoppers, even though our ace economists know that they aren’t really shoppers, based on authoritative shopping bag count econometrics.
 

So, as our members never tire of pointing out happening so often in all areas of Thai life, the appearance disguises the corrupt reality. A most satisfying explanation, no?

 

I slightly disagree with you..Listen to my theory :

In order to get a lot of customers to their food-court they decided to build a mostly useless mall around it which most of us do not really need especially not on that location but heck it brings in customers to their food court...

Finally I figured it out.????

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Destiny1990

[KittenKong]

On 6/4/2019 at 5:16 AM, lamyai3 said:

This cost 40 baht. Portions and selection no different to T21 Bkk.

That looks like the rice and three toppings place that I often go to in T21, and very nice it is too. There are several other stalls in the food court that are very good also. Overall I find it to be much better than the other food courts in town and a fair bit cheaper. And you get a nice view for free.

 

Cant say I care much about the other shops and restaurants in the building though.

[JSixpack]

On 6/5/2019 at 9:17 PM, Destiny1990 said:

I slightly disagree with you..Listen to my theory :

In order to get a lot of customers to their food-court they decided to build a mostly useless mall around it which most of us do not really need especially not on that location but heck it brings in customers to their food court...

Finally I figured it out.????

 

 

The hen is the wisest of all the animal creation, because she never cackles until the egg is laid.
--Abraham Lincoln

 

Not bad for your first contribution to TVF Poster Economics. Suitably oracular, it necessarily defies the reality described by all those boring arithmetic-based branches of economics. As you better grasp the proctology of random eyeballs-based TVFPE, however, you'll find that it will only accept the food court in a supporting role for the money laundering.

That's 'cause the mall is making most of its money by selling space to the retail shops who advertise to all the non-shoppers. It's an entirely useful purpose not only for the mall owners/operators but also for the shop owners who need to launder all their drugs, gambling, prostitution, extortion, protection, Chinese, and Russian mafia money identified by our TVFP Economic Crimes investigators. As noted, that location is ideal, with nearby hotels, bars, condos, banks, and gov't entities (walking distance from City Hall), either sources of, or somehow complicit in, the laundering.

I should emphasize more that people walking around looking like shoppers are most useful for keeping up appearances, as if the purpose of the mall is legit and above board. Helps avoid any disruptive official "crackdown" done for a photo op. Yes, the food court eaters going to and from the food court are also part of the appearance. Naïve observers, such as taxpayers, always mistake the eaters for additional shoppers--who aren't really shoppers, as we know.

Of course--before posters jump in with assurances--trained eyes can easily distinguish food court eaters from aircon seekers. This, by reading all the subtle signs, such as a grumpy expression; a purposeful look ignoring shop windows displaying all that overpriced crap; ignoring other shoppers, especially any Asians; shabbier dress; saliva about the lips; and distended bellies--the last often characteristic of expats who swear they'd only go to the mall to eat in the food court.

In fact over the years only a handful of TVF expats--probably real estate agents or owners desperate to sell--have ever dared admit they shop in a mall. Could such a dearth of admissions have something to do with the countless number of claims by the non-shoppers that they've never seen any shoppers?

And so your new insight further undercuts your Balls Over Profits advocacy. The present location helps attract the numerous tourists and workers staying, working, or walking around nearby (at most within a short baht bus ride) who seek not only aircon but also a cheap feed.

Nobody's gonna make a special trip into the weeds of Jomtien just for aircon and/or a food court.

Further, ignoring the rules of TVFPE a moment, I'd note your new insight also fails to consider the percentage of total mall profit generated by a food court. That percentage can be quite significant as in the case of the perpetually failing CentralFestival where food sells at absorbent prices:

 

On 7/2/2018 at 3:16 PM, joeyg said:

I've lived here for 4 years north of Pattaya.  The only place that is doing big business at Central is the food court downstairs that sells awful food at absorbent prices.

 

But it simply isn't sufficient to justify the building cost and maintenance of T21. As you know, for the first 3 months after opening, T21's food court vendors paid no rent. Some say they still don't pay rent and never will. Certainly prices haven't increased as guaranteed by one our Economists:

 

On 10/26/2018 at 9:31 AM, Daz Manc said:

Rest assured that the very next day after the free rent finishes, the Food Court prices will all DOUBLE at least, absolutely guaranteed  !!!!!

 

(Try to avoid betting or guaranteeing on the forum. That ensures the opposite will happen. One of our Tea Money Choristers even lost his "left nut" in a bet against the demolishing of a boutique hotel on Soi 17. Poor man; still posts when he feels up to it.)

 

KittenKong, never to be taken lightly, weighs in with:

 

On 11/18/2018 at 6:38 AM, KittenKong said:

As far as I know the business model of these food courts is that the court owner processes the cash receipts and distribution and takes a percentage off the top for doing so. This is why they have the payment cards today and, previously, the payment vouchers.

 

Must be a small percentage, however, to keep prices so very low, nowhere near the absorbent level.

 

Obviously then the food vendors are heavily subsidized one way or the other. That's how very important the food court is for luring in mall traffic--but primarily so that the eaters can be seen in the court and in the mall.

 

Good strategy, though. T21 seems pretty successful so far fulfilling its main purpose.

 

Cranky, on January 23, 2018:

Quote

Two words.  Money.  Laundering.

 

If aware of the sound economic foundation of T21 according to orthodox TVFPE, noobs needn't come out with their usual confusion about viability and subsequent doom predictions. So in answer to your earlier question posted on August 19, 2018:

 

Quote

Maybe we turn the question around When will T21 Pattaya mall be closed?

 

We needn't consider further:

 

On 10/24/2018 at 12:20 PM, HAKAPALITA said:

As long as money needs Laundering they will be OK

 

Stay tuned.

[bkk6060]

On 6/5/2019 at 9:17 PM, Destiny1990 said:

I slightly disagree with you..Listen to my theory :

In order to get a lot of customers to their food-court they decided to build a mostly useless mall around it which most of us do not really need especially not on that location

Finally I figured it out.????

 

You ever think the people who built the mall know a little more then you?

You are constantly pointing at and seem rather jealous about the location which many believe is fantastic.

Very easy access from anywhere in Pattaya on the baht bus, I can walk there in 15 minutes I love it.

So, it is a bad location for you, Mr. Destiny only I assume because you live far away. Probably Jomtien?  If it was a few blocks from you, you would think it was the greatest location ever.

 

And, if you walk through any mall in the world people are not lined up outside the doors to every shop.

 

I see many people in the shops there and eating at other places then the food court.

But, you obviously hate the place so your mind will how what ever it wants.

[Rimmer]

A flame has been removed

[Destiny1990]

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

You ever think the people who built the mall know a little more then you?

You are constantly pointing at and seem rather jealous about the location which many believe is fantastic.

Very easy access from anywhere in Pattaya on the baht bus, I can walk there in 15 minutes I love it.

So, it is a bad location for you, Mr. Destiny only I assume because you live far away. Probably Jomtien?  If it was a few blocks from you, you would think it was the greatest location ever.

 

And, if you walk through any mall in the world people are not lined up outside the doors to every shop.

 

I see many people in the shops there and eating at other places then the food court.

But, you obviously hate the place so your mind will how what ever it wants.

Why would i hate a mall?

It is just wrongly located.

Imho its Jomtien that needs a seaside mall and not Pattaya that has already  an oversupply of malls.

 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

On 6/1/2019 at 5:56 AM, FritsSikkink said:

"she is a World class shopper"

Sure

If you live in a 'world class tourist' resort then by default you become a 'world-class shopper'.

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Why would i hate a mall?

It is just wrongly located.

Imho its Jomtien that needs a seaside mall and not Pattaya that has already  an oversupply of malls.

 

 

 

Yes please somewhere along Jomtiem Second Road past the turn. A Big C as we already have the Tesco at the end of Thepprasit. 

[beautifulthailand99]

On 6/4/2019 at 6:03 AM, JSixpack said:

No shoppers have ever been seen in CentralMarina or CentralFestival, just people wandering about enjoying free aircon. Those malls were and are entirely superfluous since Pattaya already had Royal Garden. TVF Poster Economics dictates that Only One Is Needed.

So while you’re right to “doubt,” you’ll need delve deeper to find the real reason the present location is optimal—a reason acceptable to the peanut gallery, the elite Tea Money Chorus, and our countless Brown Envelope Bots. It must be based on sound, well-established principles.

 

First, know the history. The great Mall Existence Paradox had bewildered ordinary TVF posters for many years as each new mall after Royal Garden violated the Only One Is Needed rule.

But much more: each also violated the core principle of Fixed Pie. Fixed Pie holds that Thailand has no economic growth, no birthrate, and no upward mobility for anyone. The beneficent Golden Egg Layers, supplying the resources for all previous growth, left in 2003 after the INSANE rise in visa fees. Those few remaining are all moving to other countries where they're welcomed just for being themselves. The Russians left, Chinese don’t spend, Indians all share 5 to a room, and domestic tourism doesn’t exist. Therefore the supply of money and consumers has been forever fixed. So what we have left is just a shell game throughout the economy. A shiny new mall couldn’t possibly cannibalize enough from others to be profitable in Jomtien or anywhere else. Simple--but utterly bewildering.

Well, our most distinguished ace TVFP Economists eventually came up with the eminently satisfying explanation: malls exist in Thailand for the purposes of (1) selling advertising to mall shops with no shoppers, (2) selling free aircon, and most importantly for (3) money laundering.
 
Obviously CentralMarina and CentralFestival combined didn’t provide enough space for new money laundering--Chinese money laundering no doubt. They were maxed out. Hence the wise decision to locate T21 right where it is near the concentration of businesses, banks, and government entities involved in all the laundering. It’s within easy walking distance of City Hall in fact. Perfect, no?

 

And this was said (by at least one other ace expert) about CentralFestival as well. The cool thing about moving the malls to Jomtien is that it would leave Pattaya looking more like it did before 1995 when everything was perfect. Expats living in the weeds around Pattaya and posting sour grapes could then finally move downtown. Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, and Soi Buakhao would have far less traffic. Sois 7 and 8 would revive. The old fave beer bars could be reconstructed on Beach Road. Life in Pattaya would be good again, attracting quality tourists.

The Avenue, however, followed your admired Balls Over Profits approach to location and construction. Turns out that shoppers lack the balls to cross 2nd Rd and visit a mall with no aircon. With that lesson in mind, the shareholders of L&H, a publicly traded company, surely demanded the wimpy ol’ Profits Over Balls to protect and grow their investments. You aren’t really an investor, are you?

Still, balls were required to erect something that big in that location given the state of Pattaya’s infrastructure. So there’s that for you. CPN, following the same approach, paid the city to upgrade the electric grid before it finished erecting CentralFestival. Maybe L&H will pay for a traffic light at 2nd & Nua. ????

 

In fairness, the TVF Urban Planning Bureau, with its finger on all of Pattaya’s “needs,” hasn’t approved the construction of anything since the planning of Royal Garden in 1992, the greatest ever mall because of its food court action. Closely adhering to the No Change rule of TVFP Economics, the Bureau has over the years dutifully condemned Hooters, the ferry, the Tunnel, the beach refill, the Promenade, burying wires, the idea of high speed rail etc. etc.  

 

T21 then merely joins a very long list of egregious violators. As noted, Pattaya’s traffic needs formed no part of the decision to put T21 right there, replacing that crumbling old arcade much to the relief of creditors and the tax revenue office.

Nevertheless, it seems the mall crowds of aircon seekers disagree with your needs assessment just as L&H analysts knew they would. Obviously, most of these seekers don’t live in Pattaya. I suppose you may carry a sign and hand out educational brochures if you wish.

 

An interesting theory - I've always thought the elite families are so super rich that malls are just like baubles they want to show power to a rival family as much as they want to make a profit. 

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Yes please somewhere along Jomtiem Second Road past the turn. A Big C as we already have the Tesco at the end of Thepprasit. 

Ehh at the end of Theprasit there is also a big C last time i checked therefore better some shop center between beach rd and second rd.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Destiny1990

[brokenbone]

as long as it reduces traffic jam in south pattaya,

i'm happy its there.

i doubt i will ever go there, but i'm happy it exist

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

Ehh at the end of Theprasit there is also a big C last time i checked therefore better some shop center between beach rd and second rd.

I'll take an Aldi or a Lidl but they would never be allowed in Thailand as they would wipe up with their uber low prices. 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

as long as it reduces traffic jam in south pattaya,

i'm happy its there.

i doubt i will ever go there, but i'm happy it exist

That will never happen I'm afraid or if it did the roadworks required would jam up Pattaya for years to come. 

[scubascuba3]

Yes please somewhere along Jomtiem Second Road past the turn. A Big C as we already have the Tesco at the end of Thepprasit. 

Not enough customers in Jomtien and people won't travel from Bangkok and other further away places to Jomtien which they do to T21 and Central Festival

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

7 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

Not enough customers in Jomtien and people won't travel from Bangkok and other further away places to Jomtien which they do to T21 and Central Festival

Good news: Let these masses from Bangkok infest Pattaya and leave Jomtien alone. In any event would rather travel to Pattaya to shop than take the chance that they could travel to Jomtien and rain down the congestion they have in Pattaya.

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by morrobay

[Henryford]

8 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Yes please somewhere along Jomtiem Second Road past the turn. A Big C as we already have the Tesco at the end of Thepprasit.  

There is that massive piece of empty land opposite the Grand Caribbean on 2nd Road. I am surprised no one has built a big Mall or Condo there. Would be a good location near the bus station to Bangkok. On the beach as well, better than T21.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 10:48 PM, johng said:

There is no way to see the whole place in 30 minutes..its huge !!

I agree it could have been built in a better location...but too late now.

Like Jomptien. I don't understand the desire to build many malls in Pattaya, and none in Jomptien.

The inevitable result is that the numbers that were sufficient when Central was the only big mall are insufficient for half a dozen big malls.

It's like the bar beers. Back in the 90s there were few enough bars for all to make a profit, then they went mad and built bars all over the place. Result, hardly any customers unless a special bar beer, and loads closed. Remember the big complex behind the Made in Thailand market? It never succeeded, and gone now.

[bkk6060]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

10 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Yes please somewhere along Jomtiem Second Road past the turn. A Big C as we already have the Tesco at the end of Thepprasit. 

Not enough customers in Jomtien and people won't travel from Bangkok and other further away places to Jomtien which they do to T21 and Central Festival

That is probably the most accurate statement.  Pattaya is a destination.

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by bkk6060

[JSixpack]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Like Jomptien. I don't understand the desire to build many malls in Pattaya, and none in Jomptien.

 

18 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Not enough customers in Jomtien and people won't travel from Bangkok and other further away places to Jomtien which they do to T21 and Central Festival

Actually you just don't want any mall in Pattaya except Royal Garden, like it was in the 90s.

 

I say I hope Central fails, because if it does, no other big company will build in Pattaya.
    —thaibeachlovers, 2016-01-04 05:15

 

Quote

The inevitable result is that the numbers that were sufficient when Central was the only big mall are insufficient for half a dozen big malls.

Another invocation of the Fixed Pie principle of TVF Poster Economics as mentioned in my previous post:

 

 

Quote

It's like the bar beers. Back in the 90s there were few enough bars for all to make a profit, then they went mad and built bars all over the place. Result, hardly any customers unless a special bar beer, and loads closed. Remember the big complex behind the Made in Thailand market? It never succeeded, and gone now.

You have a point, and TVF members, including yourself, used the dispersal of roughly the same number of mongers to justify the Pattaya Perpetual Death Spiral. But then other factors soon entered into it, currencies, inflation, etc. As the demographics changed, Russians, Chinese, Bangkok Thais, Indians, etc. weren't patronizing beer bars--but they are the malls. 

 

So, false analogy. The beer bar market, hardly a realm populated by sophisticated investors (or patrons), is really incommensurable with the shopping mall market. 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by JSixpack