Heard that an elite visa member got his extension of stay refused because of tm30

[JohnnyBKK]

Hello,

 

Today I heard directly from an elite employee that a member got his extension refused because he forgot to do the tm30. He has now to fly out and try a re-entry instead (when I asked him if he could re-enter without issues he said he wasn't sure yet as this is the first time it happened).

 

Elite status wont help you if you don't have the tm30.

 

He also told me that it was recorded and in the future it might cause problems...

 

 

[Jingthing]

Unbelievable. 

Of course I believe it but still, what is the point of spending all that money to get treated like that?

[ubonjoe]

Those with a Thai Elite visa are not exempt from the TM30 reporting or any other reporting under the immigration act for those on a temporary permit to stay.

No problem to leave and re-enter the country. Immigration at a airport on checks to see if you are on an overstay.

[marcusarelus]

Did he wait for the minute of his extension so could not get the TM 30 done?  Why not just register it and come back to the office?

[4evermaat]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

......

No problem to leave and re-enter the country. Immigration at a airport on checks to see if you are on an overstay.

 

A lot of people who read such sensational thread titles will miss this part....so worth restating:  just do a border hop before your permission to stay expires.

 

Us lowly ME non-O holders have to do 4 border hops per year (every 89-90 days).  NonO/A, TE/PE, etc multiple entry visas you do one border hop per year.    PE/TE et al member just need do one border hop (land/plane) before your permission to stay ends, which will give you another 1 year permission to stay stamp. and get on with your life.   

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by 4evermaat

[Jingthing]

I agree with that. A big point of buying "Elite" is having to deal with immigration as little as possible. By doing a "border run" you at least avoid ever having to do another annual extension while on the program. 

[humbug]

too easy to create a sensationalist elite thread, my alarm bells are really sounding at the 'elite employee' bit, not to say the tm30 is immune to elite visa holders, but plenty go to cw to extend at n-section and not one person has mentioned this, its also worth re-enforcing the point elite holders go to n-section along with the education visa holders, so if they have introduced this requirement at n-section, we would have a lot more posters complaining about being denied.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

Question: What if we stay at a hotel and they don't submit a TM30... We'd never know about it. 

 

How can the Visa holder be held accountable for an issue someone else (the property owner) is responsible for?

 

 

These TM30 threads are concerning as it would appear that the Visa holder is being held accountable for someone else's (the property owner) failure to comply with a bureaucratic process. 

 

As it stands, I fly in to Thailand and go a rented apartment, the owner of my Apartment should (they don't) submit a TM30. I then go for a beach break, the hotel Submits a TM30, I return to my hotel and the the owner of my Apartment fails again to submit a TM30.

Thus: to Ensure everything is above board do we need to see a copy of the TM30 submission at every hotel, apartment and any other form of accommodation we stay at???? it starts to get silly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Question: What if we stay at a hotel and they don't submit a TM30... We'd never know about it. 

 

How can the Visa holder be held accountable for an issue someone else (the property owner) is responsible for?

 

 

These TM30 threads are concerning as it would appear that the Visa holder is being held accountable for someone else's (the property owner) failure to comply with a bureaucratic process. 

 

As it stands, I fly in to Thailand and go a rented apartment, the owner of my Apartment should (they don't) submit a TM30. I then go for a beach break, the hotel Submits a TM30, I return to my hotel and the the owner of my Apartment fails again to submit a TM30.

Thus: to Ensure everything is above board do we need to see a copy of the TM30 submission at every hotel, apartment and any other form of accommodation we stay at???? it starts to get silly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First question is, what does your immigration office require.  Some are silly others are not.  If you live in a silly one move or get silly too.

[Maestro]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

...As it stands, I fly in to Thailand and go a rented apartment, the owner of my Apartment should (they don't) submit a TM30...

According to section 30 of the Imigration Act one of the following must submit the notification of arrival of a foreigner at a private residence:

 

1. House-Master = tenant (see section 4 for definition)

 

2. Owner = owner

 

3. Possessor = tenant

[arithai12]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Unbelievable. 

Of course I believe it but still, what is the point of spending all that money to get treated like that?

The point of Elite Visa is to be able to stay many years without being married to a Thai and being under 50. The "preferential treatment" is sugar on the pill.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How can the Visa holder be held accountable for an issue someone else (the property owner) is responsible for?

 

The possessor is also equally responsible.

Ignorance is no excuse!

In the OPs circumstances I would have flown out and in to get the extension achieved. 

Sadly they could still make life difficult when attempting to do a 90 day report too. 

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, arithai12 said:

The point of Elite Visa is to be able to stay many years without being married to a Thai and being under 50. The "preferential treatment" is sugar on the pill.

The Elite Visa and any other multiple-entry visa allows its holder to travel to Thailand an unlimited number of times during the validity period of the visa and, with an immigration official's approval, enter the country and stay temporarily until the UNTIL date shown on the arrival stamp.

 

If the visa holder desires to stay longer than the indicated date he can apply for an extension of stay at his local immigration office. This procedure is separate from the purpose of the visa.

 

Whereas many foreigners may buy the Elite Visa with the intention of staying in Thailand for the longest possible time after every entry without having to leave the country in combination with extensions of stay, there may be many others who use it for many short stays at a time.

[mtls2005]

11 hours ago, JohnnyBKK said:

oday I heard directly from an elite employee that a member got his extension refused because he forgot to do the tm30.

 

I admit to being unfamiliar with this type of visa, but wouldn't he be allowed to sort out the TM30 issue, by filing one, first?

 

11 hours ago, JohnnyBKK said:

He also told me that it was recorded and in the future it might cause problems...

 

These sorts of vague allusions are, I understand, meant to be overly ominous, but do you have any details re: what was "recorded" and what "problems" might be caused?

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

I always thought that part of the Elite service was they would do your 90-day reports for you.  Presumably they will also do TM30 reporting?

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

If the visa holder desires to stay longer than the indicated date he can apply for an extension of stay at his local immigration office. This procedure is separate from the purpose of the visa.

How long is the Extension of Stay issued for in relation to an Elite Visa? More a question of interest as surely it cannot be another year?

Edited June 5, 2019 by jacko45k

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

More a question of interest as surely it cannot be another year?

It is a one year extension that can be applied for near the end of a one year entry from the PE visa.

A member of the forum got one a little over 5 years ago and never left the country. He got one year extensions every year.

His visa recently expired and he did his first trip out and back for a one year entry just before it expired.

[onera1961]

7 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Presumably they will also do TM30 reporting?

TM30 will be done by the real estate agent or the hotel. Of course, if you live in your friends place or some dodgy hotel, aibnb, on the side rental to avoid registering at immigration, etc., it is your responsibility. 

[berybert]

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Question: What if we stay at a hotel and they don't submit a TM30... We'd never know about it. 

 

How can the Visa holder be held accountable for an issue someone else (the property owner) is responsible for?

 

 

These TM30 threads are concerning as it would appear that the Visa holder is being held accountable for someone else's (the property owner) failure to comply with a bureaucratic process. 

 

As it stands, I fly in to Thailand and go a rented apartment, the owner of my Apartment should (they don't) submit a TM30. I then go for a beach break, the hotel Submits a TM30, I return to my hotel and the the owner of my Apartment fails again to submit a TM30.

Thus: to Ensure everything is above board do we need to see a copy of the TM30 submission at every hotel, apartment and any other form of accommodation we stay at???? it starts to get silly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would you tell the owner of your apartment you were going on holiday and will be back on such and such a date ? Or would you expect them to have a crystal ball ?

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How can the Visa holder be held accountable for an issue someone else (the property owner) is responsible for?

 

The possessor is also equally responsible.

Ignorance is no excuse!

In the OPs circumstances I would have flown out and in to get the extension achieved. 

Sadly they could still make life difficult when attempting to do a 90 day report too. 

Indeed, its easier to be in control with these issues in our home (apartment, house, condo etc)...

 

When dealing with hotels, its rather difficult not to be ignorant of whether or not they have submitted the TM30 and thus could be impacted by someone else mistake. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, berybert said:

Would you tell the owner of your apartment you were going on holiday and will be back on such and such a date ? Or would you expect them to have a crystal ball ?

Thats the other point... its almost impossible for the owner to know, so its difficult for them to be fully responsible too. 

 

IF I were to follow the rules I'd be filling out abbot 20 to 30 TM30's per year...  its too much so I don't bother.

 

Fortunately this also means I have no need for extensions of stay and the Airport seem not to be interested in whether or not a TM30 has been submitted. 

 

 

[LongTang]

5 hours ago, onera1961 said:

TM30 will be done by the real estate agent or the hotel. Of course, if you live in your friends place or some dodgy hotel, aibnb, on the side rental to avoid registering at immigration, etc., it is your responsibility. 

It is completely irrelevant where one is staying, The responsibility for reporting is on the owners.

It is not for us to decide what is considered dodgy and almost all people use different accommodations for convenience\to save money and Not to avoid registration.

 

Mind you that many big and respectable looking establishments do not have a clue regarding the TM30 requirements.

 

Its all just a way to get some more juice out us as its obvious to them that most people would do nothing and pay.

 

I just wish some formal complaints will be made to foreign embassies and governments by people who were made to pay the fines for their landlords blunders.

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by LongTang
sp

[fusion58]

15 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I always thought that part of the Elite service was they would do your 90-day reports for you.  Presumably they will also do TM30 reporting?

TE will do the 90 day report for you, but not the TM30.

 

That said, after I was blindsided by the news that CW had suddenly decided to require the TM30, TE was still able to do my 90 day report for me last week even though I had yet to obtain a TM30 receipt.

[kritsana77]

The real question should be why would you want to live in a country that requires a notice for EVERY NIGHT YOU STAY SOMEWHERE that is not your permanent residence. Thailand is a total joke and you folks are too close to know you are a part of it.

 

You may ask why am I still keeping up and responding to TV after leaving Thailand. Because it is fascinating to watch a slow moving train wreck from a far distance. 

[simon43]

You may ask why am I still keeping up and responding to TV after leaving Thailand. Because it is fascinating to watch a slow moving train wreck from a far distance. 

 

As someone who has finally made the decision (after 18 years living here) to relocate back to the EU (somewhere warm!), I have to agree.  I think many of the expats here are experiencing 'slowly-boiled-frog' syndrome.  I went through similar experiences with my crazy ex #2.  One thinks the easier solution is to just put up with the day-to-day hassles, but those hassles gradually get more and more annoying until one is finally pushed to take action, often not on the terms that you would prefer.

 

Making a move from Thailand after so many years here is not an easy decision - the logistics to relocate are rather daunting.  But better to do it while you are still able to control/fine-tweak your relocation plan etc.  Being forced out at short notice is not a good option.

 

 

[keemapoot]

3 hours ago, kritsana77 said:

The real question should be why would you want to live in a country that requires a notice for EVERY NIGHT YOU STAY SOMEWHERE that is not your permanent residence. Thailand is a total joke and you folks are too close to know you are a part of it.

 

You may ask why am I still keeping up and responding to TV after leaving Thailand. Because it is fascinating to watch a slow moving train wreck from a far distance. 

This has really gotten nutty now for those who travel often. It really isn't worth doing an extension anymore and instead just doing visas allowing 90 day entries. That is my decision now also as I will be spending more time abroad than in Thailand each year. So many of us are reassessing our desire to remain in Thailand full time.

[marcusarelus]

39 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

As someone who has finally made the decision (after 18 years living here) to relocate back to the EU (somewhere warm!), I have to agree.  I think many of the expats here are experiencing 'slowly-boiled-frog' syndrome.  I went through similar experiences with my crazy ex #2.  One thinks the easier solution is to just put up with the day-to-day hassles, but those hassles gradually get more and more annoying until one is finally pushed to take action, often not on the terms that you would prefer.

 

Making a move from Thailand after so many years here is not an easy decision - the logistics to relocate are rather daunting.  But better to do it while you are still able to control/fine-tweak your relocation plan etc.  Being forced out at short notice is not a good option.

One of the most interesting things about Thai Visa is the posting history of long term posters.  It allows one to go back and look 17 years and see a train wreck happening.  

[mtls2005]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF I were to follow the rules I'd be filling out abbot 20 to 30 TM30's per year...

 

A lot of entities which legally employ foreigners, or who have folks ( charitable, religious, conference, MICE, expositions, etc. ) here are grappling with the recently enforced TM30 rules. Since these folks can't easily be registered at one central site (like the HQ), it's making for a bit of a mess.

 

Obviously, it's easy (ish) for hotels, bing bang boom upload a spreadsheet linked to the front of house system nightly with a few clicks. For one entity to register each domicile and make sure they've reported the movements of dozens of people on the move, less so.

 

I don't mind following the "rules", even when enforcement randomly fluctuates without notice, but when it starts to become a full-time job (for which I'm surprised we're not required to have a WP) we should be allowed to whinge a bit without being directed to not let the door hit us on the way out.

 

IMO, having a foreigner self-report is self-defeating to the stated intent (national security) of the current enforcement of Sec. 38, but obviously, if you own a condo who else can you get to report you (Juristic person I guess?)?

 

They should probably make the reporting much easier, even easier than the 90-day online system. A light-weight web/mobile app (not the hotel system or it's Sec38 app) might accomplish what the "authorities" want, but then the bad guys would find a way around that too.

 

Maybe just bag us and tag us at the airport and be done with it?

 

 

 

 

[keemapoot]

5 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

A lot of entities which legally employ foreigners, or who have folks ( charitable, religious, conference, MICE, expositions, etc. ) here are grappling with the recently enforced TM30 rules. Since these folks can't easily be registered at one central site (like the HQ), it's making for a bit of a mess.

Indeed. our company is now putting together an employee instruction booklet for how to handle this with all the permutations and dangers of non-reporting. Just another layer of hassle for everyone.

Edited June 6, 2019 by keemapoot

[marcusarelus]

37 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

This has really gotten nutty now for those who travel often. It really isn't worth doing an extension anymore and instead just doing visas allowing 90 day entries. That is my decision now also as I will be spending more time abroad than in Thailand each year. So many of us are reassessing our desire to remain in Thailand full time.

How many Immigration offices request this?  What percent?  Certainly not all.  I remember reading one long term poster asking this very question in 2003.