BEWARE of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and Floxin

[DaRoadrunner]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

Roadrunner,  thank you so much for being so brave and telling your story.  I am really upset that you are going through what so many...yes. so many in the world are.  I also am hesitant to talk anymore on this forum as the naysayers always come out.     Since you have been suffering for so long I would expect that you will be very resistant to trying a protocol that TAKES TIME to work,   I implore you to go to the site floxiehope.com  .  I was just recently "floxed" and  threw 40 dollars to the wind to get the ebook they are selling.   It is a long read and of course the author is making money.... but I started immediately taking many of the supplements recommended ( if no other,  take small doses of magnesium many times during the day.

I also bought a crock pot and we are making bone broth to eat/drink continuously.  There are way to many

other things to do (a full time job) but I would gladly pay for this book for you !  I will also PM you with some private info.   I am one week into this "therapy" and for the last 2 days have barely any pain (before had trouble walking)  and feeling good.  yes, good.   I know I must keep this up but maybe I caught it early enough,  before too many cells were severely damaged.  Doctors, probably in Germany as well, just don't understand WHY our bodies are being destroyed and certainly would never consider "natural remedies".

I cannot convince people,  but will gladly try to help anyone who has been hurt by these terrible drugs.

Thanks for considerate response. The average MD hasn't got a clue about this condition or how to treat it. And it's no longer small numbers who are affected.

 

Ciprofloxacin and other drugs have now been found at toxic levels in our rivers. Animals are given the same antibiotic, eat the animal and you get it too! Man is poisoning his world and has no other planet he can migrate to. Unless one considers Thailand.... an Alien world.

 

The Germans appear to be the most advanced. I am following a naturopathic approach. The protocol includes IV therapy with Glutathione, NADH, Methylcobalamine, EGCG, Magnesium, Probiotics, Bicrabonate.

 

Oral supplements don't seem to have any effect on me.... DHEA, COQ10, 5 HTP, Curcumin, Glutathione, Vit E, B Complex, PQQ, Alpha Lipoic.

 

Oh, I did try the bone broth you mention.... as a vegetarian, all I can say is YUCK!

 

Diet must avoid Gluten, Soy and Dairy.

[Isaanbiker]

On 6/8/2019 at 11:43 AM, rumak said:

You and I have different beliefs when it comes to the medical establishment and pharmaceutical companies.

 

Much of what they say and print I do not believe.  That is why so many ( sorry, do not have the authoritative figures on % )  of the intelligent people here and elsewhere choose to find "alternative" methods and lifestyles.   I have many examples (yes, anecdotes) in my OWN LIFE  where i was given poor or just wrong advice by doctors.    I am (was) one of the healthiest 69 year old persons you will meet.  Just made one mistake :  not reading some anecdotes from people hurt by Cipro.  Why?   Well,  i slipped up for a moment and believed that there was little to worry about.

 

Your opinion may carry more weight here.  No problem.  My anecdotal report (as well as a few others here)

can be used or not by others.  I just had to start this thread..... as it would have saved me if i read it

My mom died of a heart attack caused by pharmaceutical nonsense called "Zyban" to quit smoking cigarettes.

 

Her own house doctor gave her a -free sample- of that deadly stuff, knowing that she's had two strokes in the past.

 

  After reading the whole leaflet, I knew that my mom could not take this medication and I was sure that it would kill her. Not knowing that my sister always told her to quit, she started to take the deadly medicine one day and passed away right in front of me.

 

In the leaflet were absurd sentences like Some younger patients tend to commit suicide, older patients could suffer a heart attack. The truth was that many young people who only wanted to quit smoking jumped off a balcony and committed suicide. They finally did quit smoking and so did my own mom.

 

   Many years later I had serious problems with my prostate, but I didn't go for a check-up, thinking that it can't be a good thing, no matter what it is.

 

 Then after a year or so I finally went to see a specialist at the local hospital, went thru several blood and urine tests and I was given the same medicine, you're now warning others not to take. Thanks for that.

 

  After some days taking that stuff, I felt like a robot, couldn't get that thingy up anymore and the symptoms were worse than before, plus weird side effects. Headaches, plus many other signs of not feeling well, but I couldn't just stay at home and I had to go to work. Insane. 

 

 After a chat with my niece who's a great doctor in Europe, I stopped the medication immediately and "only continued with UroFlow, a medication that contains 0.4 mg of Tamsulosin hydrochloride.  

 

But something deep inside me told me that I should stop it and I quit taking any pills as well.

 

All went back to normal then and I'm okay now. Sometimes I've got to go to the bathroom a few times when others would only go once, but I can live with that.

 

Thanks a lot for telling your side of the story, the pharmaceutical industry doesn't give a damn about your health, all they want is to make money.

 

having three doctors in my family and a few friends helps a lot to get the needed information, you can never rely on one Thai doctor's opinion, always get a second one!!!!!

 

On a Monday morning many years ago in my niece's office.

 

  A nicely dressed lady from a big pharmaceutical company went to see my nice with a "special offer".

 

She told my niece that she could have a luxury holiday with the whole family, plus pocket money and an amount of XX Euros if she'd describe a medication that kills more patients than it helps them/.

 

The same lady then visited some friends who're doctors in the same area with the same offer. The message was clear. If you prescribe this medication to at least 50 patients a month, you'll have the goodies.

 

The rumor was that some doctors who didn't make enough money to pay for the expensive clinic, plus personal and other costs, finally decided to prescribe a medication that doesn't have any proven effect than killing people.

 

  Here's a bit about Zyban. I tried to get my mom back to life but Zyban was more powerful.

 

  Her doctor knew that she'd two strokes before and that would be a no go to take such medication. But the money seems to be more important.

 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

All went back to normal then and I'm okay now. Sometimes I've got to go to the bathroom a few times when others would only go once, but I can live with that.

I wish I could say that, unfortunately I can't wee at all without the medicine.

So for me it's a choice,

1) take the medicine,

2) wear a catheter, or

3) die from kidney failure in 2-3 days.

 

By the way, the reason you have to go to the toilet more often is because you're suffering from urinary retention (your bladder is always half full), as your bladder stretches and over-pressures more and more, you just wee out the bit that causes the over-pressure. Eventually you will reach the stage when the over-pressure occurs when you're asleep (urinary incontinence bladder always 90% full) and you start bed wetting at night. By that time it will be too late and your bladder will be permanently damaged and you will need a catheter 24/7. 

What you're doing now really isn't a good idea.

Edited June 9, 2019 by BritManToo

[Isaanbiker]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I wish I could say that, unfortunately I can't wee at all without the medicine.

So for me it's a choice,

1) take the medicine,

2) wear a catheter, or

3) die from kidney failure in 2-3 days.

I don't know what to say, as I was really sure that I had a serious type of cancer and I'm not the type who'd got through all the stages if you know what I mean.

I truly hope that you'll soon recover, find another way that isn't toxic, or just what happened to me.

 

  I went through all that bs, trying to not think about it for about a year.

 

I've had weird symptoms when I took the medicine, locked me up in a bathroom at school when I all in a sudden had weird dizziness and the feeling, that I'd just collapse right in front of a whole class.

 

And knowing that I still had four hours to teach didn't help me much! That was the time when I came to my own personal limit when I had to ask myself if that's still worth to do, being very close to suicide. Why should I lie?

 

We're human and we can only take a certain amount of bs. And there's the time for all of us where we start to rethink all. Why, when, how long and how?

 

And the biggest problem for me was that nobody in my Thai family really understood what I went through. If your family doesn't get it, who else can you ask?

 

The OP went on this forum and I thank him for. We do not lose face and I'm certain that we can help each other a lot. Aren't we all in the same boat here? 

 

E-mails and Skype with niece and friends who were doctors finally helped me to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I wish you only the best, get well soon and please fully recover! 

 

   I'm so sorry and would be more than happy if I'd know a solution. Stay well. 

  

 

  

   

Edited June 9, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

I don't know what to say, as I was really sure that I had a serious type of cancer and I'm not the type who'd got through all the stages if you know what I mean.

It's not usually cancer, but a condition known as BPH (Benign Prostrate Hyperplasia) where the prostrate becomes enlarged (with age) and restricts and eventually blocks the Urethra. Men over 50 often suffer from this condition, and it's progressive. A PSA blood test is the usual way to test for cancer (about 200bht), my PSA was 2 = no cancer.

 

But BPH won't go away without drugs or surgery.

There is a slight chance your condition is brought on by cycling or riding a m/c. as the saddles can irritate/inflame/damage the prostrate. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by BritManToo

[DaRoadrunner]

There is a saying.... "Doctors bury their mistakes."

[Isaanbiker]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It's not usually cancer, but a condition known as BPH (Benign Prostate Hyperplasia) where the prostate becomes enlarged (with age) and restricts and eventually blocks the Urethra. Men over 50 often suffer from this condition, and it's progressive. A PSA blood test is the usual way to test for cancer (about 200bht), my PSA was 2 = no cancer.

 

But BPH won't go away without drugs or surgery.

I know that, my dear friend. Finally had the same test result and a doctor telling me that it wasn't cancer.

 

But they still wanted me to take two of these strange medications over a longer period of time before they even knew any results.

 

And I know that these doctors don't know very much about their job, as usual. The only good doctors are those who've studied abroad. 

 

There's a high possibility that foreigners who go to a smaller hospital see a dermatologist when they have problems with their prostate.

They can't lose face and say that they don't know that, which is the biggest problem in all areas of this country.

 

Like my wife can't say sorry when she does something wrong. 

 

  

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

But they still wanted me to take two of these strange medications over a longer period of time before they even knew any results.

An Alpha-blocker to relax the muscles and blood vessels around the prostrate will be required immediately no matter which of the prostrate problems is involved. Probably along with an anti-inflammatory (NSAID).

No need for them to know the results before prescribing as the immediate problem is considered 'semi-urgent'.

Edited June 9, 2019 by BritManToo

[Isaanbiker]

6 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

There is a saying.... "Doctors bury their mistakes."

You're so right. But it differs quite a bit when the patient survives. The same as in the article happen around 20 years ago at one of the best hospitals in Bamberg/Germany. 

 

  A little misunderstanding when turning the patient on the back led to the fatal mistake to cut the strong leg of a diabetic patient. Of course, had another doctor then amputate the already partly black leg, once the patient recovered from the shock.  

 

Here's a similar story: https://www.apnews.com/a9b3238f7dbca20e0edf82bba7da0ab5

[Isaanbiker]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

An Alpha-blocker to relax the muscles and blood vessels around the prostrate will be required immediately no matter which of the prostrate problems is involved. Probably along with an anti-inflammatory (NSAID).

No need for them to know the results before prescribing as the immediate problem is considered 'semi-urgent'.

I'd have thought that such a decision should be well checked before describing any of these strange pills.

 

I'd call it urgent, not semi-urgent no matter who it is. Poor, or rich. 

[DaRoadrunner]

2 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

misunderstanding when turning the patient on the back led to the fatal mistake to cut the strong leg of a diabetic patient.

They amputated the wrong leg?...... So long as it was not the middle one!

[BritManToo]

32 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

I'd have thought that such a decision should be well checked before describing any of these strange pills.

I'd call it urgent, not semi-urgent no matter who it is. Poor, or rich. 

If you can't wee at all (like me) it's emergency room and a catheter shoved in right away.

Then if it's more than 450ml of urine that comes out, it stays in for a week or two, to give the drugs a chance to take effect.

 

Your condition would be classed as 'semi-urgent' as you can still wee and imminent death isn't a concern.

Edited June 9, 2019 by BritManToo

[oxysong]

You guys writing here regarding all the pill popping,and yes stuck between a rock and a hard place. Thailand ain't the place to be looking for any surgical intervention with/without insurance,but if needs must?.

 Was a poster looking at Malaysia for medical treatment,but failed to put up web page for information,myself its India.

     Yes suffered more than anyone here,took the pills,waste of time,so surgery it was,either Turps hot wire/cold steel or greenlight laser. Hardly makes a difference if lot of cutting to be had,will always bleed a'plenty,turps bit cheaper.  Bigger the prostate ,more the sex drive,has saved a fortune since op.

  Urolift method a waste of time for most,prostate too heavy to be considered

  Id bite the bullet and just on with surgery,...but whatever it is not going to cost a lot to see a consultant in either country to positively identify the problem

[rumak]

Cipro was Black Box Labeled in July of 2008 because the drug was causing tendonopathy and tendon rupture. In February of 2011 the risk of worsening of symptoms for those with myasthema gravis was added to the Black Box Label. In August of 2013 a mandate was added to update the labels to describe the potential for serious irreversible peripheral neuropathy. In May of 2016 the FDA Advisory Committee advised that Fluoroquinolones should only be reserved for serious life-threatening conditions and only after other antibiotics were no longer an option. This advisory was given specifically to limit potentially permanent disability due to side effects occurring together. This group of side effects is called Fluoroquinolone Associated Disability (FQAD). Cipro damages not only tendons but connective tissue and cartilage as well causing complications that result in painful disability. There are no accurate numbers on how many people are suffering with permanent disability due to FAD. When the last Black Box label was announced the FDA admitted that it had no intention of disseminating this information to physicians instead they commented that the onus is on doctors to stay abreast of prescribing related issues.

[elektrified]

On 6/9/2019 at 6:36 PM, snowballthecat said:

Thank you Rumak for your post. 

I heard about this Cipro drug and fluoroquinolone debate. Many cases, has been forbiden in some countries. I always refuse to take it and ask doctors for an alternative, they will give you one. Here in Thailand they like to prescribe it, I guess it is cheaper.

It is only your choice. 

 

Could you say which countries have "forbidden" the use of fluoroquinolones?

[elektrified]

23 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

My mom died of a heart attack caused by pharmaceutical nonsense called "Zyban" to quit smoking cigarettes.

 

Her own house doctor gave her a -free sample- of that deadly stuff, knowing that she's had two strokes in the past.

 

  After reading the whole leaflet, I knew that my mom could not take this medication and I was sure that it would kill her. Not knowing that my sister always told her to quit, she started to take the deadly medicine one day and passed away right in front of me.

 

In the leaflet were absurd sentences like Some younger patients tend to commit suicide, older patients could suffer a heart attack. The truth was that many young people who only wanted to quit smoking jumped off a balcony and committed suicide. They finally did quit smoking and so did my own mom.

 

   Many years later I had serious problems with my prostate, but I didn't go for a check-up, thinking that it can't be a good thing, no matter what it is.

 

 Then after a year or so I finally went to see a specialist at the local hospital, went thru several blood and urine tests and I was given the same medicine, you're now warning others not to take. Thanks for that.

 

  After some days taking that stuff, I felt like a robot, couldn't get that thingy up anymore and the symptoms were worse than before, plus weird side effects. Headaches, plus many other signs of not feeling well, but I couldn't just stay at home and I had to go to work. Insane. 

 

 After a chat with my niece who's a great doctor in Europe, I stopped the medication immediately and "only continued with UroFlow, a medication that contains 0.4 mg of Tamsulosin hydrochloride.  

 

But something deep inside me told me that I should stop it and I quit taking any pills as well.

 

All went back to normal then and I'm okay now. Sometimes I've got to go to the bathroom a few times when others would only go once, but I can live with that.

 

Thanks a lot for telling your side of the story, the pharmaceutical industry doesn't give a damn about your health, all they want is to make money.

 

having three doctors in my family and a few friends helps a lot to get the needed information, you can never rely on one Thai doctor's opinion, always get a second one!!!!!

 

On a Monday morning many years ago in my niece's office.

 

  A nicely dressed lady from a big pharmaceutical company went to see my nice with a "special offer".

 

She told my niece that she could have a luxury holiday with the whole family, plus pocket money and an amount of XX Euros if she'd describe a medication that kills more patients than it helps them/.

 

The same lady then visited some friends who're doctors in the same area with the same offer. The message was clear. If you prescribe this medication to at least 50 patients a month, you'll have the goodies.

 

The rumor was that some doctors who didn't make enough money to pay for the expensive clinic, plus personal and other costs, finally decided to prescribe a medication that doesn't have any proven effect than killing people.

 

  Here's a bit about Zyban. I tried to get my mom back to life but Zyban was more powerful.

 

  Her doctor knew that she'd two strokes before and that would be a no go to take such medication. But the money seems to be more important.

 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion

 

 

 

 

All I can say is thank god for modern day medicine. Why do you think so many people are living longer these days? In the old days people just "wasted away". Doctors didn't have the tools, the knowledge, and the medicines we have today.

 

I for one am very grateful we have medicines like Levofloxacin, Cipro, Bupropion, etc. I took Bupropion for years without any bad side effects. It is a very safe anti-depressant. I've also taken both of the above antibiotics without any issues. I did read up before taking all of them, as I do with any medicine I put in my body, and I accepted the risks.

[snowballthecat]

On 6/10/2019 at 8:50 PM, rumak said:

Cipro was Black Box Labeled in July of 2008 because the drug was causing tendonopathy and tendon rupture. In February of 2011 the risk of worsening of symptoms for those with myasthema gravis was added to the Black Box Label. In August of 2013 a mandate was added to update the labels to describe the potential for serious irreversible peripheral neuropathy. In May of 2016 the FDA Advisory Committee advised that Fluoroquinolones should only be reserved for serious life-threatening conditions and only after other antibiotics were no longer an option. This advisory was given specifically to limit potentially permanent disability due to side effects occurring together. This group of side effects is called Fluoroquinolone Associated Disability (FQAD). Cipro damages not only tendons but connective tissue and cartilage as well causing complications that result in painful disability. There are no accurate numbers on how many people are suffering with permanent disability due to FAD. When the last Black Box label was announced the FDA admitted that it had no intention of disseminating this information to physicians instead they commented that the onus is on doctors to stay abreast of prescribing related issues.

Thank you, rumak and DaRoadrunner for sharing 

You are the Judge, it is your decision. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinolone_antibiotic

 

Now it will also be withdrawn in Europe!

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/disabling-potentially-permanent-side-effects-lead-suspension-restrictions-quinolone-fluoroquinolone

 

 

 

[from the home of CC]

On 6/10/2019 at 8:50 PM, rumak said:

Cipro was Black Box Labeled in July of 2008 because the drug was causing tendonopathy and tendon rupture. In February of 2011 the risk of worsening of symptoms for those with myasthema gravis was added to the Black Box Label. In August of 2013 a mandate was added to update the labels to describe the potential for serious irreversible peripheral neuropathy. In May of 2016 the FDA Advisory Committee advised that Fluoroquinolones should only be reserved for serious life-threatening conditions and only after other antibiotics were no longer an option. This advisory was given specifically to limit potentially permanent disability due to side effects occurring together. This group of side effects is called Fluoroquinolone Associated Disability (FQAD). Cipro damages not only tendons but connective tissue and cartilage as well causing complications that result in painful disability. There are no accurate numbers on how many people are suffering with permanent disability due to FAD. When the last Black Box label was announced the FDA admitted that it had no intention of disseminating this information to physicians instead they commented that the onus is on doctors to stay abreast of prescribing related issues.

thanks for the extra research..

[rumak]

On 6/10/2019 at 9:06 PM, elektrified said:

All I can say is thank god for modern day medicine. Why do you think so many people are living longer these days? In the old days people just "wasted away". Doctors didn't have the tools, the knowledge, and the medicines we have today.

 

I for one am very grateful we have medicines like Levofloxacin, Cipro, Bupropion, etc. I took Bupropion for years without any bad side effects. It is a very safe anti-depressant. I've also taken both of the above antibiotics without any issues. I did read up before taking all of them, as I do with any medicine I put in my body, and I accepted the risks.

Someone who believes as you do posted this "Anecdotal reports give no sense of frequency of incidence."

 

People that are praising the world of modern medicine are off topic.    If I was someone who happened to read this thread and was interested to know more.... i would read both sides of the equation.  Of course everything in life is a risk/reward event.   Never do any two people come to the same exact conclusions.

The topic of FQAD is one that I was not well informed about.  I regret that and feel better that I have told my feelings.   Everyone can and will do whatever they like.  For me this forum is not a pissing contest, but for many it certainly is.......bad prostates and all.

[rumak]

The topic here is the group of side effects  called Fluoroquinolone Associated Disability (FQAD).    I  am not dissing ALL medicines.    I have taken my share.   IN MY OPINION   this group of antibiotics should be reserved for serious life-threatening conditions and only after other antibiotics were no longer an option.  

Actually i think they should be totally banned as has occurred with other drugs that had disastrous side effects.  If you or a loved one has not suffered from these drugs I am sure you would think otherwise.  If you read the few posts of members that have been poisoned you might get an idea how crippling this group of medicines can be.

[BritManToo]

Last month I took Levofloxasin for 30 days, age 63.

Walked 80Km last month (taking it easy because of tendon damage fears), already walked 55Km this month.

This is exercise walking, doesn't include normal day to day activities.

No negative effects so far that I can determine.

 

Maybe you were too old or too unfit to take these drugs.

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by BritManToo

[GarryP]

Here's a question for you all. As I am allergic to a number of medicines, i.e. tetracycline (burns on parts of my body and exceedingly itchy bumhole), sulfa (burns), Ibuprofin (burns/rash), Arcoxia (a mouth full  of ulcers) and pseudoephedrine (difficulty peeing - a very rare side-effect) does this mean I am more likely to be allergic to other medicines and need to be much more careful than most people? 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

Here's a question for you all. As I am allergic to a number of medicines, i.e. tetracycline (burns on parts of my body and exceedingly itchy bumhole), sulfa (burns), Ibuprofin (burns/rash), Arcoxia (a mouth full  of ulcers) and pseudoephedrine (difficulty peeing - a very rare side-effect) does this mean I am more likely to be allergic to other medicines and need to be much more careful than most people? 

 

Yes, though what is discussed in this thread is unrelated to allergy.  For that matter what you describe with Arcoxia and pseudephedrine isn't allergy either, allergy is not the same as side effects.

 

But yes, people with known  allergy(s) are at higher risk of being allergic to something else than those without.

 

And -- though I can offer no scientific reason for this -- | have observed that there are some people  who seem more prone to suffering known side effects of drugs than most people. I know some who have had rare side effects to multiple unrelated drugs. Why, I couldn't tell you, but it's a fact.

[GarryP]

27 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Yes, though what is discussed in this thread is unrelated to allergy.  For that matter what you describe with Arcoxia and pseudephedrine isn't allergy either, allergy is not the same as side effects.

 

But yes, people with known  allergy(s) are at higher risk of being allergic to something else than those without.

 

And -- though I can offer no scientific reason for this -- | have observed that there are some people  who seem more prone to suffering known side effects of drugs than most people. I know some who have had rare side effects to multiple unrelated drugs. Why, I couldn't tell you, but it's a fact.

Thanks for the pointer on allergies and side-effects being different. I shall look into this in much greater detail.   

[DaRoadrunner]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Last month I took Levofloxasin for 30 days, age 63.

Walked 80Km last month (taking it easy because of tendon damage fears), already walked 55Km this month.

This is exercise walking, doesn't include normal day to day activities.

No negative effects so far that I can determine.

 

Maybe you were too old or too unfit to take these drugs.

 

We are all different, some are naturally more susceptible than others. You were lucky to get away with it. However, FQ drugs have latent effects, delayed onset 5 years in my case. Lots o luck! As for age and fitness.... we are the same age.... I'll leave it to my nickname for you to guess my level of fitness. Yep, the doctors turned an athlete into an old man.

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

FQ drugs have latent effects, delayed onset 5 years in my case.

Suspect I'll be dead by 5 years, no need for worries about delayed effects.

[lapd]

Who would have thunk that overusing antibiotics would be harmful.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, lapd said:

Who would have thunk that overusing antibiotics would be harmful.

Normally they save your life.

Nobody forces you to use them at all.

[oxysong]

Do not understand why you guys just do not go and get the op  If prostate is enlarged,best thing I ever did,now after a beer or two can have decent nights sleep,after getting up 5/6 times in the night a couple of years ago.  Quite simple and cheap,no need for classy hospitals

[rumak]

2 minutes ago, oxysong said:

Do not understand why you guys just do not go and get the op  If prostate is enlarged,best thing I ever did,now after a beer or two can have decent nights sleep,after getting up 5/6 times in the night a couple of years ago.  Quite simple and cheap,no need for classy hospitals

there is a thread on prostate recently.   but since you posted here,  i would like to know which procedure you did and where ?    Others of our age probably interested as well.  thanks