UK not paying Brexit bill would be debt default, French source says

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

We did indeed respect our guarantees of protection to little Belgium; and out entente cordiale treaties with France. Both the Kaiser and Hitler thought we wouldn't.

Wonder how it would've worked out if the "free world" had had to rely on France to stand alone and run up massive debts that wouldn't be paid of for decades rather than capitulating and collaborating?

June, 1940: Allied military casualties.

B.E.F. 3,500 killed in 3 weeks.

Dutch: 3,500 killed in a few days.

France: 90,000 killed, 200,000 wounded Wikipedia), 1.8 million POWs.

Germany: 27,000 killed, & 130,00 wounded (Wikipedia), lost a third (800) of their tanks, & 500 aircraft in May- June 1940. These ground losses were overwhelmingly created by the French forces - the aircraft losses may also be due to R.A.F. intervention over the battle zone.

The Longer Answer:

From almost the very beginning of the German offensive, the British were considering evacuating the B.E.F. - not continuing the fight. On May 16, 1940, Churchill returned from France & requested that plans be put in place to prepare for evacuation - this was only 6 days after the start of the offensive.

On May 24–26, 1940, the British rejected 5 appeals from the Belgians for counterattacks to relieve pressure on the Belgians. General Powell, Chief of Staff, refused to consider evacuating Belgian units: “We don’t care a bugger about what happens to the Belgians.”

On May 25, 1940, the Secretary of State for War, Anthony Eden, was informed that the B.E.F. was moving back to the coast. Eden said: “It is obvious that you should not discuss the possibility of the move with the Belgians or French.”

On May 26, 1940, the B.E.F. ignored a French request for a counterattack to the south, for the B.E.F. to break out of the Dunkirk pocket & rejoin the main French forces.

On May 26, 1940, Gort requested that the only Canadian division in England be sent to cover the evacuation of the B.E.F. The Canadians, well aware of the overall situation, refused to sacrifice their only combat-ready troops.

On May 28, 1940, General Mason-Macfarlane, the head of military intelligence, summoned journalists & told them that they were to inform the British public to blame the French for “not fighting,” & to proclaim that the B.E.F. was “undefeated.” Hard to see how 90,000 killed meant “not fighting.”

On May 30, 1940, the BBC announced that “men of the undefeated B.E.F. have been coming home from France. They did not come back in triumph, they have come back in glory.”

On November 1, 1940: The Director of Statistics declared: “The Dunkirk episode was far worse than was ever realized … The men getting back to England were so demoralized they threw their rifles & equipment out of the windows of railway-carriages. Some sent for their wives & their civilian clothes, changed into these & walked home.”

Even Churchill was honest (in private) when he declared to Hugh Dalton, a prominent member of the Labour Party, who later became Minister of Economic Warfare in Churchill’s cabinet, that Dunkirk was “the greatest British military defeat for many centuries.”

As he also famously said: “In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies.” Churchill knew well of what he spoke …

Conclusion:

Given the early British determination to dis-continue the fighting & prepare for evacuation, the very low levels of casualties, it is a complete distortion of truth to “mock” the courage & commitment of the French forces to say they did not fight - particularly when they were fighting a completely new form of mobile warfare which the French High Command was completely un-prepared for - blame the French Brass Hats, not the poilus on the collapsing front lines.

Well deserved thanks: Gordon Allen brought to our attention the extent of the German losses, which, again, testifies that the French were fighting - not evacuating by sea. Also, Adrian Chretien Lietzke, who brought to our attention that I had originally overstated German killed. He also points out the success of the Luftwaffe in their tank-busting role; 2,700 French tanks lost.

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, Oxx said:

However, at least we'll almost certainly end up with trade deals with our former colonies.

Especially when they remember how the British treated them then...

[kingdong]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More Brexiteer folly.

 

The only thing a new ‘hardline Brexit’ team will reliably slash is the value of the pound and the British economy.

who do you fancy in the 3.30 tomorrow at aydock park?

[david555]

16 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Belgium is, geographically, situated on top of the pictured half-blind trilobite. ????

Don't worry we will help you out E.U. by joining the Macron veto ...as you can not by yourself Even with your overwhelming referendum majority …. 

[kingdong]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Tell that to all the expats here remitting their living experience money from the UK.

 

What is it ฿39/£ and only going in one direction.

didn,t thailand have an exchange rate of 35baht=£1 in the 90s? then what happened?--------------------

[nauseus]

57 minutes ago, jany123 said:

Perhaps that’s because you haven’t digested what I wrote... for example, you laughed at this post below, which was the last part of a conversation wherein I stated that Britain et al, would have prevailed without US assistance.

 

You then made this post about I don’t know what, as it was in response to my post suggesting that the US assistance would have been a different matter without that commonwealth countries supplied forward operating bases for US troop build ups (whilst commonwealth soldiers were bleeding)

 

I never once suggested that commonwealth country efforts where anything other than great, nor that commonwealth sacrifices were forgotten. I did say that another poster was marginalizing free French efforts, and that “Britain” did not stand alone during the Battle of Britain, as it did not.

 

My uncle flew (Lancaster’s) countless sorties over Germany and occupied territories. Well, perhaps they could be counted, but he never discussed this with us, although in his dotage he did tell my brothers German girlfriend that he bombed the bejesus out of Dresden (maybe why he didn’t talk of it)

 

that said, others should not marginalize European allies participation, nor attempt to suggest that any one ally was saved by a particular country. We all fought and sacrificed together, honorably, in support of our commitments, and suggesting that France should pay because we honored our commitment is pretty low.

 

perhaps I’m guilty of marginalizing the US participation, but then, that was in response to a poster calling the US the “real saviour” of WW2, which in my opinion, marginalizes the commonwealths sacrifices, which offends me

I did not see the post about free French efforts. My argument was regarding Britain, as a country, being effectively alone during the Battle of Britain. Britain was assisted in many ways but she was largely isolated as a nation for more than a year. I certainly have not tried to marginalize the contribution of our allies, Commonwealth, European or otherwise.

 

Well we have something in common, at least. My dad flew in Lancasters too. He never discussed this with us either but from what I could gather from my mum this was because his last bombing sortie was so horrible that he preferred to forget it as much as he could. An explosion on board took his hearing away and that only partially recovered - the same blast took out some of his crewmates completely and gruesomely - so I understand why he never wanted to talk. Dad only made six sorties over Europe before he lost lost his hearing. After that he trained RAF navigators in the UK, Africa and Burma until the end of the war. 

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by nauseus

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, transam said:

I am still adding up how much the Axis owes us for their shit to adjust stuff...Think Greek and Pole folk are doing the same....????

The Chinese still will have a bill for you… trying to poison the Chinese with opium, you fought two wars for…

And the Indians.. you plundered for centuries… 

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

didn,t thailand have an exchange rate of 35baht=£1 in the 90s? then what happened?--------------------

28 for one day in 1985

 

91 for one day in 1998

 

1998 was a bit of a party!

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Don't worry we will help you out E.U. by joining the Macron veto ...as you can not by yourself Even with your overwhelming referendum majority …. 

If you look carefully, both of the bowls of rice are the same, more fake news.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

Don't worry we will help you out E.U. by joining the Macron veto ...as you can not by yourself Even with your overwhelming referendum majority …. 

That rice must have gone stale by now. 

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

The Chinese still will have a bill for you… trying to poison the Chinese with opium, you fought two wars for…

And the Indians.. you plundered for centuries… 

They are not in the EU tho'. ????

[kingdong]

perhaps if the french feel so strongly about the uks so called "dept" they ought to be reminded about their debt to the uk in 1945

[david555]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you look carefully, both of the bowls of rice are the same, more fake news.

I am sure you counted them …. trust you for that 

Waw... a majority of 4% and you can not make submit that opposition …. something must be very wrong with that (self proclaimed)  mother of democracy

Looks more like Pyrrhic victory by now  

The Scotts preparing you something ...

Edited June 10, 2019 by david555

[kingdong]

6 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

The Chinese still will have a bill for you… trying to poison the Chinese with opium, you fought two wars for…

And the Indians.. you plundered for centuries… 

some lucky thai bar girls going to get a "bill"next week,my old bill straight up the harris.

[kingdong]

6 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

The Chinese still will have a bill for you… trying to poison the Chinese with opium, you fought two wars for…

And the Indians.. you plundered for centuries… 

some lucky thai bar girls going to get a "bill"next week,my old bill straight up the harris.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

If the outcome of the war had been more dire or significantly different for these countries, then the EU would probably not have been allowed to exist in the first place!

See the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk#/media/File:Map_Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk-en.jpg When Germany would have won ( or a "draw")  the WW1, we would have an EU already then, inclusive Belo Russ and Ukraine ...

[aright]

8 minutes ago, kingdong said:

some lucky thai bar girls going to get a "bill"next week,my old bill straight up the harris.

Is there an echo in the room or are you a repeat offender?

[ballpoint]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Have you considered this is simply Boris learning from Trump, picking an emotive issue and promising a simplistic solution that he has absolutely no intention to go through with.

Boris will get some "art of the deal" lessons from Trump, personally travel to Brussels, negotiate for a week, and grandly come out and announce that it's now agreed that the UK will pay 50 Billion quid.  And throw in the NHS to boot.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, potless said:

The E.U. intends to make it as difficult as possible as a deterrent to other countries.

EU makes it very easy: just.. find a solution to honour the Good Friday agreement, and.,. pay the commitments in the EU councils of the last decade, signed by your prime ministers and even ratified in your parliament.... 

[david555]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That rice must have gone stale by now. 

Same as your Brexit ….

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

  highly doubt Southern Europe wishes to lose their tourists. 

Ah... you all will go to Turkey and nothern Africa instead of the EU... or even further away..  Wonderful… less crowded with drunk Brits.

[billd766]

11 hours ago, malagateddy said:

A new hardline negociating Brexit team would easily slash the 39 big ones down to a far more reasonable realistic price.
Remember..nothing has been signed to my knowledge..it's only a provisional costing right now as far as I'm aware.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I don't have a problem with paying the debt whatever the cost provided there is an international firm of accountants (perhaps Swiss) to go through the amount line by line to ensure thaty we are paying the correct amount and the bill is itemised.

 

Also that an international firm of auditors (Swiss again?) audit the EU accounts.

[vogie]

26 minutes ago, david555 said:

I am sure you counted them …. trust you for that 

Waw... a majority of 4% and you can not make submit that opposition …. something must be very wrong with that (self proclaimed)  mother of democracy

Looks more like Pyrrhic victory by now  

The Scotts preparing you something ...

I didn't have to count them, they are the same photo, one turned about 45° to the other. Brexiteers are  sticklers for detail, whereas put anything in front of a remainer and as proven he or she won't know the difference. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by vogie

[Bullie]

11 hours ago, malagateddy said:

A new hardline negociating Brexit team would easily slash the 39 big ones down to a far more reasonable realistic price.
Remember..nothing has been signed to my knowledge..it's only a provisional costing right now as far as I'm aware.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Don't be silly. European ports would be closed to the UK, stiff tariffs would be imposed, millions of Britons living in Europe would be forced to go back to the UK. You can't have your cake, and eat it.

And there would only be humble cake left, anyway.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Bullie

[Bullie]

10 hours ago, terryw said:

Macron does not seem to understand the difference between being unable to pay (default) and not willing to pay until there is a better deal (negotiation).

There is very little left to negotiate over. Britain is caught between a rock and a hard place, with the EU holding all the cards.

[david555]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

I didn't have to count them, they are the same photo, one turned about 45° to the other. Brexiteers are a stickler for detail, whereas put anything in front of a remainer and as proven he or she won't know the difference. 

If Brexiteers are such a stickler for detail , why o why you don't get the message that there is no re opening from the negotiations …. 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by david555

[aright]

10 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

EU makes it very easy: just.. find a solution to honour the Good Friday agreement, and.,. pay the commitments in the EU councils of the last decade, signed by your prime ministers and even ratified in your parliament.... 

Germany now 'biggest breaker of EU rules', according to official figures

 

Angela Merkel's government worst offender in Europe

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-germany-breaks-more-eu-rules-worst-bottom-class-a8198271.html

 

Perhaps you could help us find a solution to the problems regarding rule breakers in the EU. An honourable solution of course since you are so keen on it.

[puipuitom]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

Some are still struggling with the ten-part system I think...

The British still mention their weights in "stones"... 

[david555]

11 minutes ago, Bullie said:

There is very little left to negotiate over. Britain is caught between a rock and a hard place, with the EU holding all the cards.

Please can somebody tell the U.K. it is a push door , not pulling ….they are very free to go out 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by david555

[welovesundaysatspace]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I don't have a problem with paying the debt whatever the cost provided there is an international firm of accountants (perhaps Swiss) to go through the amount line by line to ensure thaty we are paying the correct amount and the bill is itemised.

 

Also that an international firm of auditors (Swiss again?) audit the EU accounts.

Brilliant. You should apply those ingenious tactics to your personal life as well: “No, I will not pay the remaining six months of my gym contract. I want to leave now and honoring contracts hurts my sovereignty. I might pay if you give me free access to your facilities for another three years though, and, of course, you would have to prove that you’re being audited by a Swiss audit firm. Not sure what that has to do with my gym contract, but my Führer told me I should say it.”