Statins - sick of the side effects

[myprivate]

Has anybody found a doctor in Bangkok who is understanding of patients who want to come off statins? I've been taking statins for about 15 years (from 40 to 55 years old), but the side effects are too much. I want to come off them permanently, but that doesn't mean I want to stop monitoring all the other things related to heart health.

 

My side effects are dull muscle aches in arms and legs, headaches, fatigue (well, exhaustion), brain fog, basically feeling awful like I have mild flu, and not enjoying life. It's not depression because when I come off the statins I normally start to feel better in about 2 weeks, and then I get gradually better and feel great for several months, but then a nagging concern of a heart attack returns and I start on the statins again, I normally feel fine on the statins for a while after I start, then the dull aches start to creep up on me again and eventually peak to the point where I stop the statins, it's a cycle that's been going on for about 10 years.

 

I'm definitely not imagining this, it's happened too many times. My brother has exactly the same experience (we didn't know we both experienced it until recently).

 

Below are my numbers when I come off the statins...the LDL is the one that's a bit scary to me, but the HDL is good and triglycerides are very good.

 

I've recently read that the LDL can be broken down into good and bad (platelet size), does anybody know where I could get that tested in Bangkok? I'm hoping that actually the LDL might not be so bad if it's broken down, especially considering everything else is ok. If so I'll feel better about coming off the statins.

 

Total Cholesterol 255 - high

Triglyceride 108 - good

HDL 61 - good

LDL 190 - high

Fasting Blood Sugar 82 - good

Blood pressure is normal

Weight is normal

EKG normal

Everything else is normal

 

I had an exercise stress test a couple of months ago - all good. There are no signs of heart disease.

 

My main concern is that my brother had a heart attack when he was 54 (same age as I am now), and there is a history of middle-aged heart attacks on my mother's side of the family. But I know that my brother was under a lot of stress when he had his heart attack, and there is currently a lot of debate about long term stress being the main cause of heart attacks, not cholesterol. Fortunately I'm not suffering from stress.

 

 

[eezergood]

I would speak to a TRT or longevity specialist - im pretty sure Bumungrad has what you are looking for.

[bert bloggs]

Had a heart attack when i was in my 30s ,have had a by pass in my 40s ,have taken statins for 30 odd years never a problem  ,feel fine , now in my 70s .

cest la vie .

[petemoss]

46 minutes ago, myprivate said:

I normally feel fine on the statins for a while after I start, then the dull aches start to creep up on me again and eventually peak to the point where I stop the statins, it's a cycle that's been going on for about 10 years.

When I first started statins I had terrible leg cramps, particularly at night. It's normal for people to have to try 2 or 3 different statins before they find the right one for them.

 

I finally was prescribed Rosuvastatin. Been on them for 10 years now with no recurrence of the leg cramps.

[luk AJ]

I take Lipitor 20mg, I didn’t know they were side effects..
If you have coronary heart problems, the doctors recommend the “bad” cholesterol should be kept below 70.
For heart strokes prevention, I think Aspirin based medicines are a possible solution.


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[cooked]

Try this one: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401

You are right that LDL isn't just LDL, you have to differentiate between the different LDL groups, apparently older people (over 50) with high LDL-C scores live longer.  Statins do minimally reduce the risk of cardio-vascular disease but don't decrease all cause mortality. Exception of course, for people that have already had their heart attack them.

When I was prescribed statins I went on to the Keto diet and all my blood markers improved. never went back to that (expensive) doctor. Try to get a CAC test, 99% reliable, not an angioscopy, to find out your risk factor, and initially at least, don't accept any more drugs.

I decided that I wasn't going to get any sensible advice about statins here in Thailand and am now doctoring myself with lovely keto food.

 

[cmarshall]

I have been down that route.  Took statins for years.  Then decided to get in shape again.  Dieted successfully.  Started walking 5 - 10 miles per day.  Felt great.  But then suddenly experienced intense muscular pain in neck, shoulders, and arms.  Painful enough to wake me up at night.  Read the book below about treating cholesterol with niacin, which is safe, cheap, and effective.  That was 10 years ago, been taking 1500 mg niacin per day ever since.

 

"Niacin, The Real Story" by Dr. Andrew Saul

 

Later found out that while side effects of muscular pain normally affect about 15% of statin takers, when combined with increased physical activity the rate of such side effect climbs to 75%.  My doctor certainly never warned me.

 

 

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

That was 10 years ago, been taking 1500 mg niacin per day ever since.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-niacin/art-20364984

[Sheryl]

There are alternatives to statins if diet and exercise alone don't do the trick e.g:

Niaspan
Fibrates
Ezetimibe

I suggest you find a different doctor....and be firm re your desire to swit h medication.

Where in Thailand do you live?

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[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

Later found out that while side effects of muscular pain normally affect about 15% of statin takers, when combined with increased physical activity the rate of such side effect climbs to 75%

Then cut out the physical activity.   LOL

[myprivate]

23 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There are alternatives to statins if diet and exercise alone don't do the trick e.g:

Niaspan
Fibrates
Ezetimibe

I suggest you find a different doctor....and be firm re your desire to swit h medication.

Where in Thailand do you live?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Hi Sheryl...I'm in BKK

[myprivate]

And of course, there is the ongoing debate as to whether statins are much use. I must confess that if it wasn't for the side effects I'd continue to take them "just in case", but for me they are not worth it, especially when you read study articles such as this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/

[Saltire]

About 10 years ago I had a bout of angina and after an angiogram underwent the procedure to insert 3 stents. I was instantly put on statins to 'reduce my risk', at the time due to claims that the risk could be reduced by as much as 36%. I had no side effects so carried on taking them thinking they were useful. 

 

This figure of 36% has since been well and truly debunked and Big Pharma were shown to have fudged the stats from the original study. The actual risk reduction is now stated as nearer to 1% reduction in risk of a heart event. There are lots of reputable videos on youtube on this topic.

 

I too now follow a keto diet started 2 years ago mainly to kick my diabetes into touch, and after all my bloods eventually fitting a normal profile I set about coming off meds. I took unofficial advice from a GP friend back in the UK who rarely now prescribes statins, and he recommended a gradual reduction over 2 or 3 months. I am now off stains for almost a year and while my cholesterol has gone up as expected, I focus on the minimal effect (1%) of taking them. I also came off all of my diabetes medicine in the same way after my HbA1c and fasting glucose normalised. I feel energised and and am also now 20 Kg lighter. My blood pressure is always in the lower half of normal, before it was high. I still take blood pressure meds and an aspirin a day but as my blood pressure is consistently good I will continue with them. Sounds at the very least you need to see if there is a more suitable statin for you, or as others have said, change your lifestyle if there is scope to do so.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[FracturedRabbit]

My doctor gave me statins. Took them for three days and they made me feel terrible. Threw them away, changed my diet and lifestyle, never felt better.
LDL, the bad cholesterol, is not cholesterol and it is not bad; unless your metabolism is screwed. It has many protective qualities and as you get older, higher LDL levels mean you are likely to live longer.


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[FracturedRabbit]

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[JimmyTheMook]

Red Rice Yeast 

 

same effect and natural - read into it 

[Lazy Sod]

I looked into Red Rice Yeast, but the active ingredient is a statin (same as used in lovastatin) and so in theory it can produce the same side effects.

[tifino]

both mrs an I wewre both put onto statins, for so called high colesterol

 

both felt like crap (from the 'statins)

 

Upon some somewhat extended period of internet perusing,

I came up with the lowdown of the LDL versus HDL thing,

and decided there and then, to simply stop taking it.

 

Instead went onto CoQ10 from off the pharmacy retail shelves...

which means we were now eliminating HDLs at no cost to the levels of LDL

 

at our next annual Dr checkups, he asked how our meds were going?

 - and we simply said we stopped the 'statins. ( and felt better for it)

He stared, said nothing and went back to his PC screen.

Didn't say anything against we we'd proactively done...

because he had no real evidence to counter us!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by tifino

[myprivate]

OP here.

I also noticed something called "Cholesterol Ratio" which the American Heart Association recommends should be less than 5.0, with the ideal at 3.5.

Even with my seemingly very high LDL of 190, using the formula (Total 255/HDL 61) equals a ratio of only 4.1 which is still within acceptable range.

I raised this with the Doctor in BKK and he clearly didn't know what I was talking about.

 

[CanadaSam]

It isn't cholesterol or statins that will kill you, it is blocked arteries.

 

You can take statins right up to the day you die of a heart attack.

 

What I do is try and get an MRI or CT scan done every year or 18 months, and make sure the blockages are not serious.

 

This is because I believe the figures about the benefits of statins are fudged by big pharma.

[tifino]

another simple approach anybody can do for themselves, to help their arteries walls;

 

is to dump the Table Salt, The Sea Salts etc etc the refined stuff

 

 - and only take Himalayan (Pink) Course Salt

 

The Cholesterol problems that patients get reported to by their doctors, is all about the damage done to walls of arteries, from the sharp shards of the table saly crystals.

The Cholesterol build ups are really only the body's nature's BandAid, trying to repair the walls.

 

the Himalayan Rock Salt, from the Mines up in the mountains. It is of a diffewrent structure, that does not have the shards structure of the Sea Salts

 

If everyone changed to the Himalayan salts, many doctors will be out of a job...

 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, myprivate said:

Hi Sheryl...I'm in BKK

 

Turning out to be hard to find a Thai doctor who looks promising in terms of this.

 

I suggest you see Dr. Nick Walters, an American internist licensed in Thailand.

 

http://www.mission-hospital.org/en/component/k2/item/54-dr-nick-walters.html

[simon43]

The Cholesterol problems that patients get reported to by their doctors, is all about the damage done to walls of arteries, from the sharp shards of the table saly crystals.

 

Ah right.  I teach Life Sciences etc.  I'd appreciate if you could explain how these 'sharp shards' get into the arteries.  My very basic Science knowledge informs me that only simple, small molecule structures can diffuse through cell walls, from the gut to the blood vessels.  Food has to be broken down from complex molecules to simple molecules, in order for these molecules to be small enough to diffuse through the semi-permeable membrane of the cell wall.

 

Care to explain?

[marcusarelus]

Patients who took 80 milligrams of the drug Lipitor each day for five years saw a 16% reduction in having another stroke compared with patients who took a placebo. Patients on the cholesterol-lowering drug also experienced a 35% reduction in serious cardiac events.

 

https://www.webmd.com/stroke/news/20060809/stroke-patients-benefit-from-lipitor#1

[KittenKong]

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

been taking 1500 mg niacin per day ever since.

The effects of overdosing on niacin seem to be worse than the side-effects of statins, so rather you than me.

 

I used to feel like crap before I started taking statins 7 years ago. Now I still feel like crap but I also have low cholesterol.

So presumably I will go on feeling like crap but I will last longer than I might have done without the statins.

Result!

 

The other option of stopping eating all the things I like and starting to exercise like a moron seems too awful to contemplate, so I wont.

 

 

[sammieuk1]

3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

The effects of overdosing on niacin seem to be worse than the side-effects of statins, so rather you than me.

 

I used to feel like crap before I started taking statins 7 years ago. Now I still feel like crap but I also have low cholesterol.

So presumably I will go on feeling like crap but I will last longer than I might have done without the statins.

Result!

 

The other option of stopping eating all the things I like and starting to exercise like a moron seems too awful to contemplate, so I wont.

 

 

That's what you call a perfect post  snap????

[473geo]

I hesitate to write this true account because it is one doctors opinion but when I voiced my concerns about taking statins my doctor told me it was a shame there was so much negative comment about some drugs/side effects on the internet and this affected the judgement of individuals

 

In his opinion he said statins had prolonged/saved countless lives, it was indeed the 'wonder drug' of today

 

Quite convincing!!

[tifino]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Ah right.  I teach Life Sciences etc.  I'd appreciate if you could explain how these 'sharp shards' get into the arteries.  My very basic Science knowledge informs me that only simple, small molecule structures can diffuse through cell walls, from the gut to the blood vessels.  Food has to be broken down from complex molecules to simple molecules, in order for these molecules to be small enough to diffuse through the semi-permeable membrane of the cell wall.

 

Care to explain?

I had quite a while back, been looking up whatever I could find; on both Cholesterol and Gout. The many bookmarks had gone to God on the now dead PC; but some of the concept gets touched upon here, about Salts and Uric Acid shards in bloodstream:

https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2018/release/new-high-blood-pressure-treatment-hope  

the basic point in this reply, is that shards can be in the blood

 

 

 

[emptypockets]

11 hours ago, luk AJ said:

I take Lipitor 20mg, I didn’t know they were side effects..
If you have coronary heart problems, the doctors recommend the “bad” cholesterol should be kept below 70.
For heart strokes prevention, I think Aspirin based medicines are a possible solution.


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Lipitor for hypolipidemia…  I take 145 mg Lipidil and 20mg  crestor for cholesterol. No side effects whatsoever.

It really does sound like the OP is suffering from some form of depression even though he says he doesn't. Depression/anxiety can be quite a complex condition. I took Endep for 5 years after a cancer diagnosis but eventually stopped taking it. I got sick of waking up everyday with  a hangover type feeling from taking it. The agoraphobia wasn't much fun either,

 

Depression is a mental illness, no shame in that, but many people see it as a weakness. It's not. No different to a broken arm or a pain in the guts. Jus a different organ involved and can be treated.

 

OP - go back to your doctor and explain what you have posted here. 100/1 you have some form of depression. Get the treatment - get cured. Enjoy life after depression.

[mahjongguy]

There's another alternative: lower dosage. My brother-in-law was healthy but had high cholesterol (runs in his family) and was prescribed Lipitor. His numbers quickly moved to within range. But he's a cheap guy, so he started taking it every other day. Still within range. So he starting cutting the tabs in half. So he's down to a 1/4 dosage and the numbers have shifted back a bit but still within range. That all occurred over the course of a year. 

 

Twenty years later he's in his 60's and still in fine health.