Johnson warns EU against any 'Napoleonic' tariffs in no-deal Brexit

[welovesundaysatspace]

38 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don't take things too literally, remember Donald Tusk telling us "there is a special place in hell for Brexit campaigners" Well if I can just emphasize, we, our country have no intention of going there. 

 

He never said that. Don’t spread lies. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

He never said that. Don’t spread lies. 

Don't be so defensive all the time when somebody critisizes the mghty EU. From the FT.

 

"Tusk says ‘special place in hell’ for Brexit campaigners"

 

https://www.ft.com/video/80bd4ec7-50d3-4ccf-8a5f-ba34a2257297

 

 

 

 

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

David Cameron was not a Leave supporter nor campaigner.

 

In fact, he was a prominent Remainer, so, as I said, any such warnings from him would have been, and were, dismissed by Leave and it's supporters as Project Fear.

He was speaking as Prime Minister explaining what would happen, he wasnt speaking on behalf of either side 

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, petemoss said:

Cameron was very negative about leaving, he led the remain campaign (no wonder the majority voted leave). However Johnson and Farage promised us that they would secure us a great deal that would be financially beneficial to the UK. That's why the many floating voters voted leave.

 

This was always a lie and the majority of remainers saw it as a lie. The government singularly failed to secure a deal which lived up to their promise and, furthermore, now advocating a no deal exit which couldn't be further from their pre referendum promises.

 

Brexiteers refuse to admit to these facts and, having nailed their colours to the mast, refuse to admit that they were wrong no matter how much damage they do to Britain. Patriots? I don't think so.

No, had we gone straight  to the EU on the day after the referendum voting day  and handed in our leaving notice to be enacted ASAP , we would them have gotton good deals .

Our hesitancy was our weakness and the EU has used that in their favour   

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Don't be so defensive all the time when somebody critisizes the mghty EU. From the FT.

 

"Tusk says ‘special place in hell’ for Brexit campaigners"

 

https://www.ft.com/video/80bd4ec7-50d3-4ccf-8a5f-ba34a2257297

 

 

 

 

You omitted the last 2 words: without plan.

[baboon]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Don't take things too literally, remember Donald Tusk telling us "there is a special place in hell for Brexit campaigners" Well if I can just emphasize, we, our country have no intention of going there. 

 

There is no 'Our Country' anymore. The UK is far too polarised for that, so neither you or I can speak on its behalf.

And stop misquoting Donald Tusk and trying to gloss over the fact. Why would you do that if convinced your cause is just? It's simply sleazy.

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, bannork said:

Please look at the facts

12,948,018 couldn't be bothered to vote. That means they didn't vote to leave.

16,141,241 voted to remain

17,410,742 voted to leave.

So 17,410,742 people out of a total of 46,500,001 voted to leave.

Only 37.44% of the adult population voted to leave.

(Apologies for maths yesterday, a bit out).

But this is not a general election. It's much more serious than that. The impact of leaving the EU, especially a no deal Brexit will be much much more than if Labour, for instance, replaced the Tories for one possible 4 year term.

The referendum never said leave meant a no deal Brexit. If you want to leave democratically with a no deal Brexit then I suggest another referendum.

 

 

 

 Again I post, what the majority of the British people thought the Referendum question,WAS.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by nontabury

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, tebee said:

OK Leave is bad for me .

 

But it's also bad for the country.

 

Furthermore the referendum was won on a campaign full of lies  and cheating on expenses.

 

What we are offered now is completely different to what was promised before the ref. It's the old bait and switch routine.

 

If we are forced to respect a result obtained by lying and cheating we normalise these as part of British politics.

 

No politician need ever tell the truth again.

 

We will have destroyed the very democracy you say you want to respect.       

 

Thank you tebee, you are at least honest when you admit that your overriding reason for wanting the U.K. to remain in this so called union, is for your own selfish reason. Allthough reading through countless post from 

other Remainers, you are not alone. 

[vogie]

26 minutes ago, baboon said:

There is no 'Our Country' anymore. The UK is far too polarised for that, so neither you or I can speak on its behalf.

And stop misquoting Donald Tusk and trying to gloss over the fact. Why would you do that if convinced your cause is just? It's simply sleazy.

Oh perleeeeaaaase, I am speaking on behalf of our country, should you not chose to do so that is entirely your right, but I am not into dramatics.

I have not misquoted anybody, if you read the FT link, that is how it is written, again if you want to start playing the game of pedantics that is your choice and not mine.

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Oh perleeeeaaaase, I am speaking on behalf of our country, should you not chose to do so that is entirely your right, but I am not into dramatics.

I have not misquoted anybody, if you read the FT link, that is how it is written, again if you want to start playing the game of pedantics that is your choice and not mine.

You are not speaking on behalf of our country.

You deliberately misquoted Donald Tusk. Other posters have pointed this out.

Calling out dishonesty is not pedantry, especially if you choose to continue to double down on your assertions.

 

[nontabury]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As the consequences of Brexit, particularly a no deal Brexit, which Leave succeeded in hiding in 2016 have in the intervening years become more and more apparent to the general population. the democratic option must be to let us make the final decision. 

 

Especially as MPs are playing party political football with this vital issue, or even worse, using it for their own personal political advancement.

What has become apparent since the British people’s Democratic decision to exit this so called union, is just how Undemocratic and dictatorial the Bureaucrats in Brussels actually are. 

And let’s not forget, how these same unelected Bureaucrats are so very reluctant to publish their future intentions, as to how they intend to go forward. Allthough Verhofstadt has given his personal opinion.

 

  

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, baboon said:

You are not speaking on behalf of our country.

You deliberately misquoted Donald Tusk. Other posters have pointed this out.

Calling out dishonesty is not pedantry, especially if you choose to continue to double down on your assertions.

 

I have posted the link, what else can I do, oh I know block you. 

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

How so?

 

I am simply repeating what I've always said on the subject of a final referendum!

 

Not true. I do remember that for some months after the British people’s Democratic decision to leave this so called union, “You” were very adamant that the decision should be respected and implemented.

 

[Scott]

Enough with the accusations of misquoting.   Here's one link, there are many.  

https://www.thedailybeast.com/eu-chief-donald-tusk-theres-a-special-place-in-hell-for-brexit-campaigners

 

Please stay on topic and stop with the bickering.  

 

 

[Loiner]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

He never said that. Don’t spread lies. 

Oh yes he did. Don't try deny it.

Blah blah blah ..sketch of plan...safely. No misquote there and nothing out of context. Another arch europhile exposes himself.

Safest and best plan for the UK is to cut off the EU in one clean cut. It's more than three months overdue now, although it may have already actually happened if truth be known.

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

There is no popular mandate for no deal, despite what some on here try to say

 

A thread - 

 

 

No Deal is still a very popular mandate around here. In fact nobody even knew there would be a 'deal' to Leave and divorce the EU, before we would begin to negotiate future trade deals.

The deal you talk about is all an EU and Remainer invented plot. There was never any intention to have two deals - one to Leave, followed by another to make trade arrangements. Which one do the Remainers lack a mandate for?

[transam]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Instead of failed attempts at schoolboy humour, why not answer the question?

OK, the leave reps booked posh hotels....

[metisdead]

An off topic trolling post has been removed. 

 

A post containing a profane flaming emoji has been removed. 

[Dene16]

19 hours ago, tebee said:

But it's also bad for the country.

350,000 new migrants + entering the country every year

More babies being born by migrants than uk nationals in many parts of the country

So in ten years time around another 4 million + non nationals to cripple an already failing NHS, schools, housing

 

Damage to the country is nothing compared to what it would of been for our children

As someone has already said remainers all seem to have a personal reason for their decision with no real thought to the consequences in the future

[sandyf]

On 7/6/2019 at 4:41 PM, vogie said:

And you sir have no respect for a democratic vote which well over half our nation chose to leave the EU. It has been 3 years of doom and gloom we have had to endure from the remainers, just because the result hasn't gone their way. I feel sure if the result had been in your favour you would not be getting the insults we have to endure on a daily basis, we would have respected the decision and got on with our lives.

Democracy is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder and whether you like it or not the UK is a parliamentary democracy.

 

"Parliament has let the people down very badly, they agreed to ask the country a question and they agreed to act on that question,"

 

There is no dispute that parliament got it wrong, right in the beginning, what rational entity asks a binary question with a multitude of answers.

Only the delusional thought there was a singular answer and that has now been proven to be the case.

There is no such thing as "no deal", that has become synonymous with "no agreement" and no agreement will result in a multitude of mini deals done in a panic as people come to understand the consequences of what they thought they were going to get.

Time to realise that the singular concept of "Leave the EU" has never been an option.

[dick dasterdly]

39 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Democracy is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder and whether you like it or not the UK is a parliamentary democracy.

 

"Parliament has let the people down very badly, they agreed to ask the country a question and they agreed to act on that question,"

 

There is no dispute that parliament got it wrong, right in the beginning, what rational entity asks a binary question with a multitude of answers.

Only the delusional thought there was a singular answer and that has now been proven to be the case.

There is no such thing as "no deal", that has become synonymous with "no agreement" and no agreement will result in a multitude of mini deals done in a panic as people come to understand the consequences of what they thought they were going to get.

Time to realise that the singular concept of "Leave the EU" has never been an option.

That is definitely the remainers' view point.

 

On the other side, the electorate are tired of 'parliamentary democracy' - which is proving (yet again....) that it doesn't represent 'the majority of people' - only their own, financial interests ☹️.  Hopefully this referendum result will change things, but I hold out little hope in the way parliamentary democracy has stopped any idea of a genuine leave for the last 3 years....

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

On the other side, the electorate are tired of 'parliamentary democracy'

 

The electorate being tired does not mean anything, the electorate are not in a position to make decisions and the people that are there to make decisions were put in place by the electorate.

Are you now trying to say the electorate got it wrong?

[nontabury]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The electorate being tired does not mean anything, the electorate are not in a position to make decisions and the people that are there to make decisions were put in place by the electorate.

Are you now trying to say the electorate got it wrong?

 

 

 Yes they did get it wrong, in as much as they were lied to, and mislead by

some politicians who stood on a mandate to respect and honour the People’s Democratic decision to leave this so called union. Who then went on to vote against that same Democratic decion in the HOC.

 

A prime example:- 

[sandyf]

On 7/6/2019 at 7:22 PM, vogie said:

but what is apparent is that leavers are doing what is best for our country,

And what exactly does that entail?

 

There may have been some credibility had a white paper been published prior to the vote.

In Scotland they published a 650 page white paper prior to the referendum.

[sandyf]

On 7/7/2019 at 3:17 PM, sanemax said:

It was stated quite clearly by David  Cameroon that leave meant completely leaving and that if the UK wanted to join a common market or free trade deals or whatever, the Uk would have to do that after we had left 

I have to assume you thought it was fact.

Haven't the courts just ruled in favour of Boris on the grounds that for hundreds of years it has been accepted that campaigning politicians can effectively say what people want to hear, fact does not come into it.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

I have to assume you thought it was fact.

Haven't the courts just ruled in favour of Boris on the grounds that for hundreds of years it has been accepted that campaigning politicians can effectively say what people want to hear, fact does not come into it.

I have no idea what the UK Courts have just ruled  , you will have to ask someone else 

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, Loiner said:

There was never any intention to have two deals - one to Leave, followed by another to make trade arrangements.

Of course there was, Article 50 specifies that a withdrawal agreement should be put in place before membership comes to an end. The withdrawal agreement deals with social and financial matters and has nothing to do with trade.

Theresa May in her usual style tried to circumvent the regulations in an attempt to put it all under one umbrella. When the EU pointed out that was not the Article 50 that the UK had signed up to, the brexiteers as usual blamed the EU.

[sandyf]

23 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I have no idea what the UK Courts have just ruled  , you will have to ask someone else 

But you are prepared to believe David Cameron.

 

Laying out their reasons for the decision on Wednesday, Lady Justice Rafferty and Mr Justice Supperstone said: “The problem of false statements in the course of political campaigning is not new and has not been overlooked by parliament. For at least the last 120 or so years parliament has legislated to control certain false campaign statements which it considers an illegal practice.”

 

But the laws do not cover arguments used in political campaigns like the 2016 EU referendum, the judges found.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-court-latest-brexit-lies-high-court-end-tory-leadership-contest-a8985876.html

[sandyf]

53 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 Yes they did get it wrong, in as much as they were lied to, and mislead by

some politicians who stood on a mandate to respect and honour the People’s Democratic decision to leave this so called union. Who then went on to vote against that same Democratic decion in the HOC.

 

So you accept the electorate got it wrong in the general election but claim there is no chance whatsoever they got it wrong in the referendum through similar lies and misleading politicians.

[sandyf]

Mr Rycroft said there are around “16,000 civil servants whose jobs are dedicated to Brexit-related issues”, in what he calls “an unprecedented situation” and “the biggest exercise across Government we’ve seen over the last few decades”.

 

“The planning I think is in good shape,” he said. “But of course what that doesn’t mean is that there won’t be an impact from Brexit, and particularly a no-deal Brexit, because that is a very major change and it would be a very abrupt change to our major trading relationship.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-risk-richard-rycroft-civil-servant-bbc-panorama-a8992256.html

 

The public would rather scrap Brexit or hold a second referendum than face a chaotic no-deal at Halloween if the new prime minister cannot strike a fresh agreement, a poll has found.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cancel-second-referendum-no-deal-halloween-next-prime-minister-boris-johnson-a8991351.html