Photo of drowned migrants triggers fight over Trump asylum clampdown

[Ozman52]

5 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

In other words, make the USA look as terrible as the hell holes the asylum seekers are trying to escape from?

No, just stop accepting refugees and illegal immigrants, and deport ALL those who attempt to enter without prior permission. 

[usviphotography]

What is horrifying is just have fast the American Left is radicalizing. It was a just a few years ago that Obama could go on TV and make the reasonable statement, "Don't send your kids here". Today a Democrat would be disowned for making such a statement. Replacement is their overriding ideology to the exclusion of everything else. Nothing, not even dead kids, can stand in its way. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by usviphotography

[manarak]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Thanks. IMO does not justify vilification of the father who was seeking a 'better life' for his family. Life without hope for a better future must be a strong motivator. Doesn't help that trump has cancelled aid for El Salvador.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-officials-said-aid-to-el-salvador-helped-slow-migration-now-trump-is-canceling-it/2019/04/01/5a8ca570-540a-11e9-aa83-504f086bf5d6_story.html?utm_term=.cc00fed4231e

you are totally right regarding "vilification" - it's disgusting. But I do miss your indignation about using these 2 deaths as cheap political ammunition.

 

About the economic assistance to El Salvador, I'm not informed enough to comment on the reality of the correlation between the aid and economic migrants to the USA.

[Sujo]

6 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

do we have proof he was seeking asylum, rather than an economic migrant ?

If he was an asylum seeker, why risk the life of your child, when as you say. he  could apply for asylum while outside the country ?

if asylum seeker, what is he fleeing from . and why doe he have to go to america to feel safe, when lots of other safe places

The tone is not as unfortunate as the poor child losing its life for the greed of the parents

Yes, they had requested asylum. The application was made a couple of months ago and still not determined.

 

So he decided to for reasons only known to him that it would be better or safer for the family to cross into US whilst his application was pending.

[Toosetinmyways]

Looks like the Trump’s family dreams of going down in history as the great saviour’s is going down the pan.

Kushner can’t even get the concerned parties to the table. Poor Melania has lost her role as a caring sharing face of children. She can kiss her UN ambassador for children post goodbye.

Donny boy knows he is in the do-do when Fox “news” criticises him on two separate programs. Even the great T rump brown noser AKA Rick Santorum thinks he should tone his rhetoric down. The bible thumpers are even complaining about his treatment of children

Once Trumps popularity drops 10 points due to his immigration policy that will be the end of Miller. Can never remember how to spell his first name. Is it Stephen, Steven or Adolf.

[simple1]

Just now, Joinaman said:

do we have proof he was seeking asylum, rather than an economic migrant ?

If he was an asylum seeker, why risk the life of your child, when as you say. he  could apply for asylum while outside the country ?

if asylum seeker, what is he fleeing from . and why doe he have to go to america to feel safe, when lots of other safe places

The tone is not as unfortunate as the poor child losing its life for the greed of the parents

El Salvador has a known problem with extreme gang violence and poverty. Tell me how a poor person from El Salvador can claim asylum for the US and potentially wait years in Mexico for processing. Assuming you know the definition of a 'safe country' what countries are there bordering El Salvador?

 

Personally I do not define 'seeking a better life' for family as 'greed'. I do agree that the US Southern border is a total mess, the underlying reasons do seem to be under resourcing and funding for processing of asylum seekers over a number of years. Wouldn't help that trump has cut back refugee visas to 30k this year.

[sammieuk1]

52 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It's an all day everyday occurrence for forever. I ask you again, what's Trump got to do with it? 

It was also an everyday occurrence in Europe as the Syrians swept in from the war until that defining sickening photo of a two year old drowned boy in the arms  of a Turkish soldier that galvanized Europe to find a solution and suggest as president Trump needs to step up and find a humane workable solution when such a powerful image go's viral even he wont have a choice. he should now give his thumbs a rest and spend some money and change his draconian polices and that's what its got to do with him in my view ????  

[simple1]

8 minutes ago, manarak said:

you are totally right regarding "vilification" - it's disgusting. But I do miss your indignation about using these 2 deaths as cheap political ammunition.

 

About the economic assistance to El Salvador, I'm not informed enough to comment on the reality of the correlation between the aid and economic migrants to the USA.

Deaths as 'political ammunition', unfortunately common by all sides of politics - spun one way or another. The article I linked to claims the prior aid did reduce the asylum seeker flow.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, manarak said:

 

the death of the father and his daughter is sad, but the political instrumentalization of it is disgusting.  it's in the same vein as when the right wing instrumentalizes isolated crimes committed by immigrants to stir racism and xenophobia.

It is precisely the demonisation and scape scapegoating of immigrants, the peddling of fear and the use of immigration as bait to the rightwing base that supports Trump that has brought about the conditions on the border where a father has no options but to risk his and his child's life to cross the border. 

 

Where, I ask, are your posts protesting the use of immigration and the stoking of fear of immigration as a politick tool by the rightwing?

 

I'll not waste time looking for it. 

[Joinaman]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

El Salvador has a known problem with extreme gang violence and poverty. Tell me how a poor person from El Salvador can claim asylum for the US and potentially wait years in Mexico for processing. Assuming you know the definition of a 'safe country' what countries are there bordering El Salvador?

 

Personally I do not define 'seeking a better life' for family as 'greed'. I do agree that the US Southern border is a total mess, the underlying reasons do seem to be under resourcing and funding for processing of asylum seekers over a number of years. Wouldn't help that trump has cut back refugee visas to 30k this year.

so if El Salvador is so bad to live, whats wrong with parts of Mexico?So you think its better to risk the life of your family rather than wait somewhere safe till allowed to enter

So you say 30k visas this year only. How many do you think he should allow, and who will pay for it ?

They are fleeing to the US not because of their safety, for that they can stay in Mexico, so to want to go to the US is for purely economic reasons

Its a bit like the UK, we have economic migrants travelling through many safe countries, just to claim the better benefits from the Uk

 

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post and several replies have been removed

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Which is probably why it is time to start looking at genuine refugee/asylum seekers as opposed to economic migrants.

 

Why on earth are there so many 'asylum seekers' from countries that are not at war/have little record of discrimination etc. held in 'refugee' centres?

The dead people who are the subject of this thread are from El Salvador.

 

You might want to educate yourself on what is going on in El Salvador and the part the US played propping up the corrupt governments and the introduction into El Salvador of the viscous formerly American based criminal gang that is terrorising the citizens of El Salvador and precisely who it is that the suffers the outcome of the 'hardline' government response to combatting gangs.

 

 

  

 

[usviphotography]

3 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

so if El Salvador is so bad to live, whats wrong with parts of Mexico?So you think its better to risk the life of your family rather than wait somewhere safe till allowed to enter

So you say 30k visas this year only. How many do you think he should allow, and who will pay for it ?

They are fleeing to the US not because of their safety, for that they can stay in Mexico, so to want to go to the US is for purely economic reasons

Its a bit like the UK, we have economic migrants travelling through many safe countries, just to claim the better benefits from the Uk

 

Listen to what he is saying. The entire 6 million plus population of El Salvador is entitled to move to the US. And since the implication is Guatemala and Mexico must also be too unsafe, that means all 16 million and 130 million of them too. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore. Replacement of the American people is now their open policy. 

 

It is no wonder that polls indicate immigration is now the #1 issue with both Republicans and Independents now. What the Left is proposing is nothing short of the complete destruction of America. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, usviphotography said:

Listen to what he is saying. The entire 6 million plus population of El Salvador is entitled to move to the US. And since the implication is Guatemala and Mexico must also be too unsafe, that means all 16 million and 130 million of them too. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore. Replacement of the American people is now their open policy. 

 

It is no wonder that polls indicate immigration is now the #1 issue with both Republicans and Independents now. What the Left is proposing is nothing short of the complete destruction of America. 

Hogwash.

 

Hyperbole from you and denial of the fact that most Americans do not support Trump on Immigration (or anything else for that matter).

[canuckamuck]

This accidental drowning was precipitated by a weak border and democrats interfering with solutions proposed by the republicans and encouraging illegal migrants with sanctuary. The Dems just want carnage so they can capitalize on tragedy. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by canuckamuck

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

This accidental drowning was precipitated by a weak border and democrats interfering with solutions proposed by the republicans and encouraging illegal migrants with sanctuary. The Dems just want carnage so they can capitalize on tragedy. 

Let us know when you have some fact based ideas to discuss. 

 

Your obscene  claim here is utterly baseless. 

[canuckamuck]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let us know when you have some fact based ideas to discuss. 

 

Your obscene  claim here is utterly baseless. 

If there was no way to get in, and a firm policy of removal, and if kids weren't a factor in getting to stay. They probably wouldn't have felt the risk was worth it.

[Joinaman]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The dead people who are the subject of this thread are from El Salvador.

 

You might want to educate yourself on what is going on in El Salvador and the part the US played propping up the corrupt governments and the introduction into El Salvador of the viscous formerly American based criminal gang that is terrorising the citizens of El Salvador and precisely who it is that the suffers the outcome of the 'hardline' government response to combatting gangs.

 

 

  

 

So why could they not stay in Mexico ?

[wabothai]

7 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

This accidental drowning was precipitated by a weak border and democrats interfering with solutions proposed by the republicans and encouraging illegal migrants with sanctuary. The Dems just want carnage so they can capitalize on tragedy. 

How intelligent of a statement

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

If there was no way to get in, and a firm policy of removal, and if kids weren't a factor in getting to stay. They probably wouldn't have felt the risk was worth it.

If there were an affordable, fair and accessible means to apply for entry without risk of having their children taken from them they might have tried that too. 

[canuckamuck]

2 minutes ago, wabothai said:

How intelligent of a statement

I got my words in the right order at least.

[simple1]

30 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

so if El Salvador is so bad to live, whats wrong with parts of Mexico?So you think its better to risk the life of your family rather than wait somewhere safe till allowed to enter

So you say 30k visas this year only. How many do you think he should allow, and who will pay for it ?

They are fleeing to the US not because of their safety, for that they can stay in Mexico, so to want to go to the US is for purely economic reasons

Its a bit like the UK, we have economic migrants travelling through many safe countries, just to claim the better benefits from the Uk

 

Mexico has allowed itself, under extreme political pressure, to be an outsourced holding centre for trump contrary to international accepted legal norm. One assumes you know those passing through Mexico are not 'safe' nor are the border towns where the asylum seekers are being held. I am of the opinion US based Asylum Officers know the facts more than you.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/u-s-asylum-officers-say-trumps-remain-in-mexico-policy-is-threatening-migrants-lives-ask-federal-court-to-end-it/2019/06/26/863e9e9e-9852-11e9-8d0a-5edd7e2025b1_story.html?utm_term=.030645a6b458

 

Prior to trump coming to power the US was issuing 100k refugee visas p.a. which even then wasn't that many compared to some other countries based upon population e.g. Australia. To put into perspective, from UNHCR...

 

25.9 million refugees in the world—the highest ever seen; 41.3 million internally displaced people; and. 3.5 million asylum-seekers.

Edited June 27, 2019 by simple1

[usviphotography]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Hogwash.

 

Hyperbole from you and denial of the fact that most Americans do not support Trump on Immigration (or anything else for that matter).

Actually, the polls beg to differ. Immigration now the #1 issue among both Republicans and Independents. People just want the invasion to end. Immigration is what got Trump elected in the first place, and it is setting up to happen again despite the fact he's mostly done a lousy job of keeping his promise to secure the border. 

[Joinaman]

56 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Mexico has allowed itself, under extreme political pressure, to be an outsourced holding centre for trump contrary to international accepted legal norm. One assumes you know those passing through Mexico are not 'safe' nor are the border towns where the asylum seekers are being held. I am of the opinion US based Asylum Officers know the facts more than you.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/u-s-asylum-officers-say-trumps-remain-in-mexico-policy-is-threatening-migrants-lives-ask-federal-court-to-end-it/2019/06/26/863e9e9e-9852-11e9-8d0a-5edd7e2025b1_story.html?utm_term=.030645a6b458

 

Prior to trump coming to power the US was issuing 100k refugee visas p.a. which even then wasn't that many compared to some other countries based upon population e.g. Australia. To put into perspective, from UNHCR...

 

25.9 million refugees in the world—the highest ever seen; 41.3 million internally displaced people; and. 3.5 million asylum-seekers.

Perhaps you could explain why Mexico is not safe, millions of Mexicans live there without too much problem don't they ?

They don't have to stay in the border town do they, that is their choice, there are many many other towns and cities they could live in while waiting for their visa application to be processed But why not live in Mexico, why risk lives, then complain about delays, conditions when trying to enter a country illegally 

Asylum seekers ? How many of these so called asylum seekers seek safety in the nearest safe haven, compared to how many travel through safe countries just to get better benefits, thus no longer asylum seekers, but economic migrants

Perhaps if they make the it much much harder to enter a country without the legal permission, then maybe less will try

 

 

[manarak]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Trump that has brought about the conditions on the border where a father has no options but to risk his and his child's life to cross the border.

could you elaborate more - how would that family's situation have been different under Obama? how would the father and the daughter not have drowned?
do you think they would have been allowed to cross into the USA ?

Edited June 27, 2019 by manarak

[manarak]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Mexico has allowed itself, under extreme political pressure, to be an outsourced holding centre for trump contrary to international accepted legal norm. One assumes you know those passing through Mexico are not 'safe' nor are the border towns where the asylum seekers are being held. I am of the opinion US based Asylum Officers know the facts more than you.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/u-s-asylum-officers-say-trumps-remain-in-mexico-policy-is-threatening-migrants-lives-ask-federal-court-to-end-it/2019/06/26/863e9e9e-9852-11e9-8d0a-5edd7e2025b1_story.html?utm_term=.030645a6b458

 

Prior to trump coming to power the US was issuing 100k refugee visas p.a. which even then wasn't that many compared to some other countries based upon population e.g. Australia. To put into perspective, from UNHCR...

 

25.9 million refugees in the world—the highest ever seen; 41.3 million internally displaced people; and. 3.5 million asylum-seekers.

yes, I agree with that.

 

asylum applications that seem genuine - i.e. with applicants coming from countries satisfying the legal norms for asylum, or have proof for qualifying personal situations - should be allowed to remain in safety while their asylum request is examined.

Edited June 27, 2019 by manarak

[Sujo]

Its quite ironic the Trump supporters jumping up and down complaining about this when it escalated to emergency proportions under Trump. Trump, the man who said he would fix it and yet its worse.

[manarak]

17 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Its quite ironic the Trump supporters jumping up and down complaining about this when it escalated to emergency proportions under Trump. Trump, the man who said he would fix it and yet its worse.

 

it's something I have witnessed in companies.

step 1: prevent implementation of the project by either canceling the budget or making people unavailable.

step 2: say the project failed and blame the guy in charge.

 

actually, this is good stuff for a "Dilbert"

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by manarak

[Thailand]

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore

[Enoon]

 

25 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Its quite ironic the Trump supporters jumping up and down complaining about this when it escalated to emergency proportions under Trump. Trump, the man who said he would fix it and yet its worse.

 

There is no "fixing" the migrations of Homo Sapiens.

 

It is the heartbeat of humanity, the breath of History.

 

It is the unstoppable nightmare for those who delude themselves that history can be frozen.

 

All "plans" to "fix" it are futile, all promises to do so are electioneering lies.

 

Only idiots would believe them.

 

"T'was ever thus"

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Enoon