Tougher immigration rules sees large number of Nordic expats leave Thailand

[ocddave]

4 minutes ago, Kim J said:

Personally I think there is much more to this than just immigration and visa issues. There are currently many factors, that are making foreigners consider the wisdom behind staying in Thailand. To think it is only related to immigration matters I think is a little naive.

Well you can also add in the Anti-Farang movement of the current non-Democratic government to those factors.

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, wilailuk said:

I don´t know and don´t care, we talk about Scandi´s here... 

 

????

Just like we care that you're short a few baht every month, so do you really think anyone really cares - doubt it very much. 

And if you cared to read and infer what was being said, it was referring to the dropping exchange rate. 

Maybe you should snipe on all the other posts pointing out exchange rate drops. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Artisi

[user68677878]

Thailand is obviously too expensive for socialists

[DrTuner]

26 minutes ago, porphyry said:

Thailand is obviously too expensive for socialists

Everywhere is too expensive for socialists. They expect it all to rain from heavens (or other people's pockets).

[khastan]

Also do not forget for UK ex pats married to Thais the sting of loosing over a third of your old age pension from April 6th next year when the dependents allowance ceases.

[metisdead]

Offensive and inflammatory troll posts have been removed. 

[khunPer]

On 7/1/2019 at 10:14 AM, ThomasThBKK said:

...lower healthcare costs for example...

Not compared to Nordic countries, there healthcare is free (well, covered by the high taxes).

[Odisan]

On 7/1/2019 at 7:18 AM, lamyai3 said:

I expect we'll see more and more of these kinds of articles, along with a synopsis as to why this is happening. 

Please don't provide facts. Forums can't survive when there are facts. No more facts. Facts go home. ความจริง ไป เลย. Facts bye-bye.
 

 

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

Not compared to Nordic countries, there healthcare is free (well, covered by the high taxes).

Just to give a quick example .. let's say 40% income taxes for 5k€/month, 20% VAT etc .. let's just say 60% of gross goes to taxes and tax like payments, so 5k*12*0.6 = 36k€/y. Better get sick a lot and have a big litter to recoup that one.

[ThomasThBKK]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Just to give a quick example .. let's say 40% income taxes for 5k€/month, 20% VAT etc .. let's just say 60% of gross goes to taxes and tax like payments, so 5k*12*0.6 = 36k€/y. Better get sick a lot and have a big litter to recoup that one.

I am with ACS atm, it's like 900 usd per year, french company...https://www.acs-ami.com/en/expat-health-insurance/acs-asia/

 

Not sure how good but prolly not worse than others, also covers me 120 days per year in europe. Seems "slightly" cheaper than Denmarks public health insurance in my case.

 

Also as a self employed in most european countries health care is extremely expensive. 

14.6% of your eligible gross salary, up to a maximum of €4,350 a month (€52,200 annually).

If you are employed it's half of that as your company pays half - still up to 26100 EURO PER YEAR.

That's why most self employed are privately insured which is cheaper if you earn good - but then you CANNOT change back to the government healthcare system.

 

This is _free_ healthcare. i call it hidden cost healthcare instead.

Edited July 3, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Just to give a quick example .. let's say 40% income taxes for 5k€/month, 20% VAT etc .. let's just say 60% of gross goes to taxes and tax like payments, so 5k*12*0.6 = 36k€/y. Better get sick a lot and have a big litter to recoup that one.

You cannot be familiar with Nordic countries, we would be so happy with 40 % income tax, and 20 % v.a.t. only...????

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

You cannot be familiar with Nordic countries, we would be so happy with 40 % income tax, and 20 % v.a.t. only...????

I put it in as a lowball to prevent bickering. Coming from Finland I know all too well how high the rates can get ????

[wilailuk]

Then I´ll  put in a curve ball from Denmark: 

 

https://www.thelocal.dk/20171124/denmark-still-has-worlds-highest-taxes-report

 

Yes, "free" hospital and doctor, but not when you stay in LOS, and the tax is deducted anyway, and now with the new real socialist government, taxes will rise.

 

Better to stay here, good for your health, when staying away from other drunk Scandi´s!

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by wilailuk

[Don Chance]

So where do this nordic people go now? Vietnam, Malaysia?

[wilailuk]

13 minutes ago, Don Chance said:

So where do this nordic people go now? Vietnam, Malaysia?

Romania and Bulgaria I guess, cheap countries inside EU.. and former hardcore socialist, perfect fit! ????

[ThomasThBKK]

Romania and Bulgaria I guess, cheap countries inside EU.. and former hardcore socialist, perfect fit! [emoji39]

Bulgaria can be decent, spent time there, many expats in plovdiv and sofia and flat tax rate of 10%.

So perfect for running a business in the EU.

Been there, done that. Plovdiv is kinda the chiang mai of europe: https://medium.com/@euvieivanova/digital-nomad-guide-to-plovdiv-bulgaria-the-chiang-mai-of-europe-d7f258fb4413

I know it was meant jokingly but it's actually a very decent alternative for many expats here if we get buggered out of thailand.

The black sea coast is also decent: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/travel/bulgaria-black-sea-budget-travel.html

It's a bit like greek towns at the cost, very affordable and decent food.

Gets cold af in the winter tho..

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[wilailuk]

@ThomasThBKK: Agree... and it was no joke, I know Danes who moved there from Thailand, because they received a very low pension at old age and could no longer afford it here.. With "low" - I mean around 26/30K THB pr. month, depending on exchange rate.. When living in a EU country, they will get approx. double that amount.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by wilailuk

[dallen52]

On 7/1/2019 at 5:50 PM, DrTuner said:

Beware though.. I've been a returning expat before I ever came to Thailand. The honeymoon works both ways, after a few months back in fatherland all the things that annoyed you before you left are back in full force. At least you know what to expect.

Been there done that.

 

Get here and within a few weeks in the LOS I start to get the desire to get the F out again. 

It used to be a year, then, months. 

Doesn't take long now.

 

Plus as mentioned in another post the pot of gold just doesn't stretch in all the thai directions needed.

 

Mine recently took to working six 11 hour days a week and yours truly is sat in a rental apartment.

Paying for the privilege of living alone. 

Still sending the partners daughter every month in the village. 

She is at high school now.

And the monthly has more than doubled. Plus a bit.

Add to that my lady decided to buy her a bike.

(Actually took over one her son defaulted payment on)

New phone.

All the high school stuff.

No discussion. 

Just hawked the gold again. 

 

 

The son works. Most of the time. 

But still bots from her.

Married with a 6 months child. 

Daughter in law needed to see a doctor and I offered the money. 

 

Well... that's about the end of the thai world, as I found out. 

She son not like, partner not like. 

And I'm on a plane Saturday night. 

 

What is it with Thais and monetary obsession.?

I thought I was being a good guy trying to help her family. 

 

It's like,

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine too".

You only give to me.

 

Another on bites the dust.

 

[DrTuner]

12 hours ago, wilailuk said:

Romania and Bulgaria I guess, cheap countries inside EU.. and former hardcore socialist, perfect fit! ????

There might be a healthy backlash to full on capitalism after all those CCCP years.

 

Croatia seems popular and why not. Opposite Italy on a good spot. Still, winters can be cold.

 

Snowbirds got it right I think. Escape the winters for 6months to second place and return when the beautiful spring and summer comes.

[snowballthecat]

12 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Bulgaria can be decent, spent time there, many expats in plovdiv and sofia and flat tax rate of 10%.

So perfect for running a business in the EU.

Been there, done that. Plovdiv is kinda the chiang mai of europe: https://medium.com/@euvieivanova/digital-nomad-guide-to-plovdiv-bulgaria-the-chiang-mai-of-europe-d7f258fb4413

I know it was meant jokingly but it's actually a very decent alternative for many expats here if we get buggered out of thailand.

The black sea coast is also decent: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/travel/bulgaria-black-sea-budget-travel.html

It's a bit like greek towns at the cost, very affordable and decent food.

Gets cold af in the winter tho..

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
 

 

Good post: i have never heard first hand of someone living in Bulgaria. Thank you, ThomasThaiBkk, I will consider it. 

 

The articles are very informative.

 

Did you actually got residency in Bulgaria, or just spent some time?

[nasa123]

On 7/1/2019 at 11:04 PM, wilailuk said:

They knew that when they moved here, so what´s the problem?

 

The whole article and headline is misleading, it has nothing to do with "tougher Immigration rules" - but everything to do with a strong THB and weak European currencies.

 

I get 13K THB  less pr. month now when I transfer my pension, compared to a few years ago, so the Danes living on the low old peoples pension only, minus tax, will have a hard time.

 

 

This start not so loooong time back, 2 year, and soon the rest of scandinavien country start whit this rules to. 

[ThomasThBKK]

No i didn't need residency as an EU citizen but if you want one they are easy to get and never stayed longer than 3 months.

If i remember correctly all you need to do is rent an apartment there and then you are eligible as a pensioner.

 

For younger ones i could have applied there simply using my bulgarian company and a rental contract and a bunch of forms i would have had to fill out.

Alternatively you can use a rental contract and health insurance proof/proof of funds (i guess thats what pensioners would do: https://www.mvr.bg/docs/librariesprovider17/документи-от-административни-услуги/feccb06e-leaflet2-pdf3a8e17e8f8ac42c8b71217bc732819ad.pdf) 

 

After temporary residence, you can get a PR and even a Citizenship later imho. They also have dozens of investment shemes etc.

 

It takes like 3 days (can be done in 1 day tho) to get, but u need a local lawyer because everything that has to do with government is in bulgarian language - that's basically cyrillic alphabet but not russian so even russians have a hard time understanding it.

 

If you are not european they are still easy to get: https://www.immigration2bulgaria.com/residence-permit-for-pensioners/

 

Once you got long stay residency issued you can use family reunification visa for your family - if you ever need it - unlike other countries bulgaria doesn't seem to have fun to tear families apart.

Edited July 4, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[DrTuner]

Interesting, Bulgaria has a "buy a passport" program too, not the most expensive either: http://www.bulgarian-citizenship.com/bulgarian-citizenship-investment/ . 

 

One more option for those who need an EU passport for wife or step kids in order to execute the get the hell out of dodge maneuver successfully and have got the funds. I think growing the local mustache is optional for Thai women.

 

One of these days I'll do a more exhaustive comparison of the former eastern bloc countries and their buy-a-citizenship schemes. 

[ThomasThBKK]

Yes and you can sell the bonds later after you got it.

Alternatives are greek,portugal,spains golden visas.

Turkey has a really cheap passport atm (250kUSD) but well it's not in the EU.

[stropper]

On 7/1/2019 at 8:13 AM, bluesofa said:

Only last week I was talking to two guys at a social meeting.

One is going back to his home country after 15 years in order to set the wheels in motion to move back permanently with his Thai wife and kids, as a direct result of the tightened Thai visa regulations and not being able to get an embassy letter to support his visa extension any more.

 

The second guy is very well off and has been here for a similar length of time. He's on a Non OA visa, therefore required to have medical insurance to renew it. As he's over seventy, that's not possible. He also has a family here, but is now considering moving to the Philippines.

 

if he is so well of why does he just not get a o retirment visa ?

 

[MRToMRT]

14 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Alternatives are greek,portugal,spains golden visas.

I looked at these as well. Spain and Greece do come at a tax cost though as they tax based on worldwide income, starting at 20% as soon as you go over 6 months. Portugal has 10 years tax free available.  

 

As a non-EU resident I liked many European options (especially bang for buck on property) but the tax thing kept rearing its ugly head.

 

It's hard enough on a pension and the thought of it being reduced by tax is difficult.

[overherebc]

I still don't get this idea of  I/my friend who is 75/80 years old can no longer afford to support his family here and put his children through school and help the extended family. In most cases that works out that they married at 60/65 and started a family without thinking down the line. 15 to 18 years later when they're 75/80 they complain the costs are too much. Ok I suppose I know which brain was doing the thinking.

The Thais don't do it, or, if they do it's a two way street and the help goes both ways, family to family. When an expat gets involved and has/takes over the 2 youngsters the 'girl' has it's seen as a lifetime of him doing nothing else but put his hand in his pocket.

At 65+ the guy should not have got himself into the situation of not being able to enjoy his pensioned years. If he has decided to go that route it's not the fault of his embassy/government/new Imm' rules.

Edited July 5, 2019 by overherebc

[wilailuk]

On 7/5/2019 at 8:41 AM, overherebc said:

I still don't get this idea of  I/my friend who is 75/80 years old can no longer afford to support his family here and put his children through school and help the extended family. In most cases that works out that they married at 60/65 and started a family without thinking down the line. 15 to 18 years later when they're 75/80 they complain the costs are too much. Ok I suppose I know which brain was doing the thinking.

The Thais don't do it, or, if they do it's a two way street and the help goes both ways, family to family. When an expat gets involved and has/takes over the 2 youngsters the 'girl' has it's seen as a lifetime of him doing nothing else but put his hand in his pocket.

At 65+ the guy should not have got himself into the situation of not being able to enjoy his pensioned years. If he has decided to go that route it's not the fault of his embassy/government/new Imm' rules.

You nailed it, thanks..

 

Would think grown men had more sense of responsibility etc. - but apparently not here, way too much complaining and whining on self created stupid life situations.

[ThomasThBKK]

17 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

I looked at these as well. Spain and Greece do come at a tax cost though as they tax based on worldwide income, starting at 20% as soon as you go over 6 months. Portugal has 10 years tax free available.  

 

As a non-EU resident I liked many European options (especially bang for buck on property) but the tax thing kept rearing its ugly head.

 

It's hard enough on a pension and the thought of it being reduced by tax is difficult.

 

Most of them have Double tax threatys with whereever you are from for pensioners, should in most cases not affect you.

It's more of a problem for younger still working people imo.

[MRToMRT]

6 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Most of them have Double tax threatys with whereever you are from for pensioners, should in most cases not affect you.

It's more of a problem for younger still working people imo.

If you retire in Thailand there's zero tax on an overseas pension. Thats the kind of love I like.

Edited July 6, 2019 by MRToMRT