Absurdity of Visa extension and TM.30 requirements

[bbz404]

I have been living and working in Thailand for the past 4 years. First under a Non-Imm B visa extended for business purpose for the next 2 years. Work Permit and Visa have been done at Chamchuri Square (One Stop Service Center) as I work for a very large listed company. The process there is relatively easy and quick.

Got married back in 2015 and thought in 2018 that it would be best applying for a marriage extension (on my existing visa) instead of business so as to be not dependent on the company if things go south. Also, paperwork seemed to be a lot less and I thought it would be easier for our visa lady to process the application. So last year, I had to do that in CW instead of One Stop Service center. Already a hassle last year with long lines and 2 visits instead of one (with no other change to my situation than the reason for extension).

This year, with the TM.30 requirements at CW I did some research and it turns out that all people with visas and WPs from CW are subjected to TM.30 requirements whereas the ones with visas/WPs from Chamchuri are not!! 

In addition, with the re-entry permit from Chamchuri, visa holders are entitled to the priority BOI lane at the airport (which I didn't know before). 

So bottom line is that by marrying a Thai and having a kid and not changing a single thing to my professional status other than the reason for the visa extension, I am being inconvenienced more than a person who is a single expat living it up in Thailand for example. I really fail to understand the logic behind this...

 

Changing back to business extension this year. Sad.

Edited July 2, 2019 by bbz404

[jackdd]

43 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

This year, with the TM.30 requirements at CW I did some research and it turns out that all people with visas and WPs from CW are subjected to TM.30 requirements whereas the ones with visas/WPs from Chamchuri are not!! 

Every foreigner who is staying temporarily in Thailand has to be reported with a TM30 by the landlord / possessor if he stays there, doesn't matter where you get your extension, that's the law. Might of course be that one place does not enforce this law, but this might change any time.

[DrJack54]

So OP, for those on extension based on marriage you have to show 400k in Thai bank and then can use it afterwards? Spare a thought for single guys like myself keeping 800k in bank for most of year and I don't have to support wife and kid. And you think you have it tough.

[bbz404]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

Every foreigner who is staying temporarily in Thailand has to be reported with a TM30 by the landlord / possessor if he stays there, doesn't matter where you get your extension, that's the law. Might of course be that one place does not enforce this law, but this might change any time.

I thought so too, but according to news reporting last week and our own information obtained by calling the BOI/large companies hotline, foreigners with extensions from One Stop Service center are exempt from the requirement. 

[bbz404]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

So OP, for those on extension based on marriage you have to show 400k in Thai bank and then can use it afterwards? Spare a thought for single guys like myself keeping 800k in bank for most of year and I don't have to support wife and kid. And you think you have it tough.

didn't go the 400K route but rather the 40K Baht monthly income route as I normally don't keep my cash in TH. 40K income no problem to justify.

[Vacuum]

57 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

I really fail to understand the logic

That's because you've only stayed here 4 years.

[ThomasThBKK]

13 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

I thought so too, but according to news reporting last week and our own information obtained by calling the BOI/large companies hotline, foreigners with extensions from One Stop Service center are exempt from the requirement. 

They aren't.

Same as 90 day reports - they usually just do it on your behalf.

[bbz404]

Just now, ThomasThBKK said:

They aren't.

Same as 90 day reports - they usually just do it on your behalf.

No they don't in my company. I'm in and out of Thailand 1-3 times a month and usually spend every weekend in our house in another province. Our staff has no way of knowing my every movement and hadn't heard about TM.30 since last week as none of our foreign employees has ever been required to produce any TM.30 registration (including the ones having extended their visas and WPs within the last month or so).

[ThomasThBKK]

No they don't in my company. I'm in and out of Thailand 1-3 times a month and usually spend every weekend in our house in another province. Our staff has no way of knowing my every movement and hadn't heard about TM.30 since last week as none of our foreign employees has ever been required to produce any TM.30 registration (including the ones having extended their visas and WPs within the last month or so).

There's no exemptions by law for tm30 reporting, it's your responsibility if they don't do it for you.

Same for elite visas, they often don't enforce it there but it just depends on the IO.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[Chazar]

2 hours ago, bbz404 said:

I really fail to understand the logic behind this.

There is  no logic  just plain stupidity, the Thai way to show you "we are the  boss"  you  will dance on one leg and fart the national anthem if we say so.

Wife is having to deal with the absurd TM30 with many of her Japanese businessmen clients. The Japanese fly in and out several times a week and EVERY frikkin time it means a new TM30. Thai immigration needs a good  kick up the arse to sort this out better still DROP it completely. Japanese getting fed up with this already farangs need to start making a fuss to their embassies to see  if they can do anything although doubt they will show any interest whatsoever.

Wife spoke to some high up officer at  immigration who when questioned about it eventually said she will not answer anymore questions and refused anymore info acting like a spoilt  kid, childish to say the lest when my Wife pointed out the in and out 3 times a week etc.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Chazar

[Caldera]

OP, I think you've summed it up perfectly as "absurdity". Don't look for common sense in places where there is none.

[Brigand]

The thing that always gets me is that I have an apartment/condo and my wife owns her own house and they are in the same immigration district. Of course I spend time at both ... but am I expected to fill in like 3 TM30s a week.? Really? There should be some distinction between tourist and long stay expats or workers that own multiple properties.   

[Nowisee]

15 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

So OP, for those on extension based on marriage you have to show 400k in Thai bank and then can use it afterwards? Spare a thought for single guys like myself keeping 800k in bank for most of year and I don't have to support wife and kid. And you think you have it tough.

 

This baffles me.  
Two people 400k and can blow the whole load after extension approval.
Single person 800k, keep 3 months, can't use 400k.  Zero logic.

 

15 hours ago, Vacuum said:

That's because you've only stayed here 4 years.

 

No amount of time will help see the logic.   In time you just become accustomed to the illogic.

 

11 hours ago, Caldera said:

OP, I think you've summed it up perfectly as "absurdity". Don't look for common sense in places where there is none.

 

Sense is definitely not common here.

 

[Old Croc]

Every non-citizen is required to complete a TM30 to cover every day (night) they spend in Thailand. If you move around internally, or travel in and out, you, or your host, are required to complete a new report each time.

When you consider that there are hundreds of thousands of expats and at least 30 million short stay tourists entering each year, and guestimate how many of those have multiple places of stay, the size of the task in fully monitoring all, is impossibly huge. Little wonder some Immigration offices don't push the issue.

Unfortunately the main use of the requirement seems to be not so much about the Orwellian need to know the immediate whereabouts of everyone, but as a punishment to extract fines/tea money from the few who come under notice.

Thailand should scrap this imposition if it wants more quality workers and tourists to help the country thrive.  Of course it won't happen.

[moe666]

Ok boys you have changed nothing by your rants. Yes it makes no sense to you but the Thais have some idea where you are at. Ask any immigration guy in america where his clints are living and he has no clue as there are no requirements for this type of reporting. If you hadn't noticed all of this reporting isn't for your benefit it is for Thai immigrations, and by extension the Thai Governments. Just go with the flow it will make life easier.

[LivinLOS]

15 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

There's no exemptions by law for tm30 reporting, it's your responsibility if they don't do it for you.

Same for elite visas, they often don't enforce it there but it just depends on the IO.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
 

There may be no exemptions, but what he is saying is there is no enforcement, which is 'to him' the same thing.. 

 

This is a law thats been on the books for 40 something years, up to 2 or 3 years ago none of us did it.. Enforcement or lack of it is the key in this case. 

Yes hes not complying with the law, as do 1000s of tourists, but because the enforcement is applied to them, they dont see it. 

[Anagami]

Quote

I really fail to understand the logic behind this...

Huh??

 

What's logic got to do with Thailand?

[LivinLOS]

9 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Unfortunately the main use of the requirement seems to be not so much about the Orwellian need to know the immediate whereabouts of everyone, but as a punishment to extract fines/tea money from the few who come under notice.

As soon as it became a revenue source.. You just know it would spread to every office over time.. 

 

Why would they pass up the opportunity to level more fines on non Thais for an obscure law.. Of course not.. 

In other news, long stay numbers and the businesses that survive on them report real world falls, tourist numbers may be up, but the pressure and costs on expat life seem to have reached the crossover point for many. 

[wreckingcountry]

Information. Can I get the TM 30 form when applying for re entry permit? Is it stamped/ signed with some official mark when made ? Nothing is clear with any of this


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[Suradit69]

17 hours ago, bbz404 said:

This year, with the TM.30 requirements at CW I did some research 

And yet after your "research" you still don't understand that visas are never extended.

[Pedrogaz]

Yes totally absurd. Why don't they buy a computer to enable them can talk to the immigration at the airport.

I am fed up with the endless pointless petty rules and the outright corruption here in Thailand. 

I'm going to check out the Philippines at least they speak English there.

[mike787]

I see many expats having the false belief getting married, having a kid will ensure/guarantee their stay in Thailand.  All you have done is complicate your life on so many levels, but heck, maybe this is your path in life.  

If they didn't want it, they wouldn't do it.  So now, their in a world of crap!  So sad, so high the price of for a little intimacy you will pay.  

Edited July 3, 2019 by mike787

[Briggsy]

This post will get me in trouble. 

 

Here is the logic. 

 

Government entities (e.g. Bangkok Immigration at Chaeng Watthana, etc.) do not share information or liaise with entities from different government ministries or even other departments within the same ministry and organisation. So Bangkok Immigration do not talk to Chonburi Immigration and they definitely don't share information with district offices and so on.

 

Orders come from above and are passed down. Reports are passed back up.

 

That means each entity we deal with, each office, each section within each office is like dealing with a whole separate country. It is extremely inefficient and that inefficiency is passed on to the foreigner in the form of numerous trips to Immigration and other government agencies to collect documents to satisfy Immigration. Just imagine if their systems were integrated. How much less work and how much more efficient it would be.

 

Why don't they share information? Primarily to keep full control over their little area (geographical or economy sector) that they have jurisdiction of. Secondly because nobody trusts anybody here, least not in the government. Thirdly they don't want other departments to be able to figure how much they are making in undeclared income. Fourthly, their I.T. systems are abysmal. Fifthly, simplistic, strictly vertical chains of command are the cultural norm here.

 

So, now, when you count the number of trips to Immigration (don't forget to include trips to other offices to get documents for Immigration) you know why. Same applies to renewing your road tax, Thai passports, i.d. cards, land transfer and so on.

[DrJack54]

Briggsy, I like your thinking..

Gave me a smile. My sis used to work big co where her roll was a thing called "change implementation". Its where you look at all aspect of large business and streamline and change. 

Where the heck would she start with Thai imm.

[bbz404]

4 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Same applies to renewing your road tax, Thai passports, i.d. cards, land transfer and so on.

 

While I agree with your post, I have to disagree with the efficiency of Thai road tax renewal (never go there, my insurance broker does everything and it gets done with copies of the blue book/green book he has on file, easy peasy) and Thai passports. The Thai passports office in CW is one of the most efficient government entities I have ever encountered in any country. They are friendly, well staffed and efficient in their work. Completion of a passport takes 1-2 days and is mailed directly to your home. Cost is 1,000 Baht. This is opposed to 2-6 weeks waiting time and 2 trips to the administration in the countries I have passports of.

 

Another exemplary government entity in Thailand is the PEA. Only great and attentive experiences with them. Very different from PWA.

[arithai12]

16 hours ago, bbz404 said:

No they don't in my company. I'm in and out of Thailand 1-3 times a month and usually spend every weekend in our house in another province. Our staff has no way of knowing my every movement and hadn't heard about TM.30 since last week as none of our foreign employees has ever been required to produce any TM.30 registration (including the ones having extended their visas and WPs within the last month or so).

About the first part, consider that also immigration has no way of knowing your every move inside Thailand if it's not to hotels. I am in your same boat (frequent trips to a second home in another province) and I do not bother with a TM30 update for that.

About the second part, as already written it is a general requirement for evey foreigner in Thailand and if your company/immigration office haven't learned about it yet, they will in time.

btw, if you/wife are owners of the your main residence, you can register to do tm30's online, that will help if you are frequently out of the country and back.

[phuketrichard]

I agree 100% with the above;

PHUKET

Did my road tax last week, 10 minutes to do the test, ( my car is over 6 years old) drive to the office, 2minutes, got my number, got my new sticker, all in another 10 minutes.

Note; ONLY need the cars book...

 

Passport office for daughter, in an out & out in 30 minutes,passport sent ems 6 days later.

 

Extension::  not to bad, did my retirement extension in 20 minutes 2 weeks ago,had all the correct paperwork/copies

MY complaints are changing the goalposts; now the 800,000 needs stay there, last year I could use it through out the year an just top up.

Am sure next year. will need purchase Medical insurance.

[robertson468]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

So OP, for those on extension based on marriage you have to show 400k in Thai bank and then can use it afterwards? Spare a thought for single guys like myself keeping 800k in bank for most of year and I don't have to support wife and kid. And you think you have it tough.

But you can spend 400,000 baht after a short period!

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

 

While I agree with your post, I have to disagree with the efficiency of Thai road tax renewal (never go there, my insurance broker does everything and it gets done with copies of the blue book/green book he has on file, easy peasy) and Thai passports. The Thai passports office in CW is one of the most efficient government entities I have ever encountered in any country. They are friendly, well staffed and efficient in their work. Completion of a passport takes 1-2 days and is mailed directly to your home. Cost is 1,000 Baht. This is opposed to 2-6 weeks waiting time and 2 trips to the administration in the countries I have passports of.

 

Another exemplary government entity in Thailand is the PEA. Only great and attentive experiences with them. Very different from PWA.

While its your thread that's all fine, but you seem to have different people taking 'care of you' ....."my insurance broker does.." etc

Most average punters esp retired expats do everything themselves. Maybe try life in slow lane. Do an extension at CW or 90 day report. Or visit to obtain certificate of residence etc YOURSELF

Re the Thai pp. Yes efficient but aliens are not obtaining one. So bit side issue. BTW I can renew my pp in au at any post office. 

[bbz404]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

While its your thread that's all fine, but you seem to have different people taking 'care of you' ....."my insurance broker does.." etc

Most average punters esp retired expats do everything themselves. Maybe try life in slow lane. Do an extension at CW or 90 day report. Or visit to obtain certificate of residence etc YOURSELF

Re the Thai pp. Yes efficient but aliens are not obtaining one. So bit side issue. BTW I can renew my pp in au at any post office. 

My insurance broker asks me if he should do the road tax renewal while renewing the first class insurance. Of course, I say yes. It's a free service. I have done it myself at the DLT head office for a motorbike before I started working. Very easy and not more than 10 minutes at the Drive Through Tax booth.

 

As mentioned, I have been doing my extension at CW last year. Paperwork was all prepared by myself. Never had to do a 90 day report because I leave the country every month. Certificate of residence is also not required since I hold a WP. 

So yes sometimes I choose convenience but I do know and have experienced the reality of it all.