Absurdity of Visa extension and TM.30 requirements

[Briggsy]

25 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

 

While I agree with your post, I have to disagree with the efficiency of Thai road tax renewal (never go there, my insurance broker does everything and it gets done with copies of the blue book/green book he has on file, easy peasy) and Thai passports. The Thai passports office in CW is one of the most efficient government entities I have ever encountered in any country. They are friendly, well staffed and efficient in their work. Completion of a passport takes 1-2 days and is mailed directly to your home. Cost is 1,000 Baht. This is opposed to 2-6 weeks waiting time and 2 trips to the administration in the countries I have passports of.

 

Another exemplary government entity in Thailand is the PEA. Only great and attentive experiences with them. Very different from PWA.

I don't disagree with your observations. However I do need to point out some flaws in your logic. Sorry.

 

Road Tax. You are paying someone else to deal with the inefficiency caused by lack of government integration. In this case a broker. In the UK, I do it from home on my computer.

 

Passport. Well staffed, yes, friendly, yes, efficient in their work, yes, cheap, yes. All of this simply compensates for the inefficiency caused by lack of government integration. Who, in Thailand, has to collect the other documents from the other offices? The applicant, that is who. In the UK the departments are integrated and also in the UK, anybody can get a passport in 2 hours by paying extra.

 

PEA. I can't think of another government entity they need to liaise with but if there is one I am sure the householder has to do the legwork.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Briggsy

[Mattd]

17 hours ago, bbz404 said:

Changing back to business extension this year. Sad.

Off topic, however, I am very interested to know what your company's HR department are saying regarding the change back to the extension of stay based on work, after extending last year based on being married to a Thai?

I am in a similar situation, whereby last year I changed from work to my son, this year this is not possible and I need to change back to being based on work and HR are saying it is not possible to do this.

my WP is via the IEAT rules, so same as BOI.

Would appreciate knowing the feedback from your HR.

[bbz404]

4 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Off topic, however, I am very interested to know what your company's HR department are saying regarding the change back to the extension of stay based on work, after extending last year based on being married to a Thai?

I am in a similar situation, whereby last year I changed from work to my son, this year this is not possible and I need to change back to being based on work and HR are saying it is not possible to do this.

my WP is via the IEAT rules, so same as BOI.

Would appreciate knowing the feedback from your HR.

Why did your HR say it's not possible?

 

My HR called Chamchuri and they said that if I comply with all the requirements to get an extension based on work then there is no issue to change the reason of extension back to work instead of marriage. This seems logical enough. Assume I divorced but continued to be employed, I would be forced to go that route as well. My advice is to insist with your HR in getting real information. Sometimes they just state facts that come from their reasoning and not from real information.

[Suradit69]

Laws, rules, policies evolve over time in every country and are not always consistent With older laws, rules or policies. 

 

Unless they rewrite everything to with immigration rules at one time you will get inconsistencies.  The only thing the daily rants about immigrations accomplish is to rattle the cages of other frustrated farang who struggle to cope with reality.

 

And much of the recent turmoil was provoked by a few embassies that stopped issuing  income letters. Following that, proving one meets financial requirements ( that in many cases had only been "proved" in fictional income affidavits) caught some people in the tangled web of their own deceptions and meant that those who had been honestly meeting the requirements were inconvenienced as well.

 

We all know that different offices interpret and apply rules differently. The OP and his "research" haven't revealed anything new. If throwing a hissy is cathartic, I guess it's better that resorting to controlled substances, but it's not otherwise particularly useful.

[SteveB2]

I groaned when I read the OP's paragraph - Someone should have told you in advance that it is a relatively rare privilege to meet the requirements for having your immigration status handled by the Chamchuri Square (One Stop Service Center) folks, instead of having to mingle with the throngs of plebs at CW.

 

IMHO, it is as though the red carpet is practically rolled out to those lucky foreigners who can use the One Stop Service Center, whereas extreme scrutiny and discouragement is the norm for long stayers at CW.

 

The same goes for your immigration formalities at the airport.

 

Never mind, now you're with the rest of us at CW, keep a cool heart, give the officials the pieces of paper they want and they will give you the pieces of paper you want. 

 

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

16 hours ago, Chazar said:

Wife spoke to some high up officer at  immigration who when questioned about it eventually said she will not answer anymore questions and refused anymore info acting like a spoilt  kid, childish to say the lest

 

Waste of time asking them to justify it, because they can't. Their only possible response is, 'it's the law', and you ran a risk by backing an IO into a corner. Thais do not like their lack of logic being thrown back in their face.

 

I'd like to question why, after being married to a Thai for nearly 30 years and living here for about 26, I still have to leave the country every 90 days or travel hundreds of kilometres and pay extra for permission to stay in the country a little longer. There is no justification for it, nor any logic. It is utterly pointless and a waste of their time and mine.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

So OP, for those on extension based on marriage you have to show 400k in Thai bank and then can use it afterwards? Spare a thought for single guys like myself keeping 800k in bank for most of year and I don't have to support wife and kid. And you think you have it tough.

We have all got it tough, this is Thai immigration we are talking about here.

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

We have all got it tough, this is Thai immigration we are talking about here.

Yes but human nature makes you feel better when some people have it worse than you. I read many folk having trouble obtaining bank statements using income method. Cheered me up somewhat.

Joking (sorta)

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, moe666 said:

Ok boys you have changed nothing by your rants. Yes it makes no sense to you but the Thais have some idea where you are at. Ask any immigration guy in america where his clints are living and he has no clue as there are no requirements for this type of reporting. If you hadn't noticed all of this reporting isn't for your benefit it is for Thai immigrations, and by extension the Thai Governments. Just go with the flow it will make life easier.

I wish that they had the same process in the UK for its visitors and expats/refugees/migrants. Thai based Expats and visitors may not like it, but it makes sense to the Thai government and I have got to say, to me too. 

[ToddinChonburi]

When did you think Thais think logical.

[Mattd]

1 hour ago, bbz404 said:

Why did your HR say it's not possible?

 

My HR called Chamchuri and they said that if I comply with all the requirements to get an extension based on work then there is no issue to change the reason of extension back to work instead of marriage. This seems logical enough. Assume I divorced but continued to be employed, I would be forced to go that route as well. My advice is to insist with your HR in getting real information. Sometimes they just state facts that come from their reasoning and not from real information.

Thanks for the reply, there is a thread about it and the reasons, quick version: They are saying that the change of reason to my son last year has reclassified the original non-B entry in 2004 to now being a non-O and an EOS based on work cannot be issued because of this, I have reasoned that this is not correct, as the original entry was on a Non-B visa and the unbroken extensions of stay ever since are basically extending the permission to stay of that original entry, regardless of the basis.

To the best of my knowledge, immigration offices cannot change the status of a non-immigrant entry, this can only be done for a tourist entry.

Being in the sticks (Chonburi) then the option of using one stop isn't available, Sriracha immigration are advising them in this way.

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Yes but human nature makes you feel better when some people have it worse than you. I read many folk having trouble obtaining bank statements using income method. Cheered me up somewhat.

Joking (sorta)

It doesn't cheer me up but it does reinforce the absolute ridiculous nature of the method and the required proof when I can go to any Thai aTM with my US ATM card and pull out any amount at anytime and show the Immigration whatever they need by providing 2 letters verifying a pension in the amount needed to qualify for extension.  There is no logical reason for the income method to be proven by international transfers; bank books and bank letters.

 

I am more  and more convinced that the laziness of the 3 Embassies who refuse to continue issuing the letters has produced a backlash from Thai Immigration in which they design a system to make it as inconvenient as possible for applicants to meet the requirements

Edited July 3, 2019 by Thaidream

[rumak]

16 hours ago, Caldera said:

OP, I think you've summed it up perfectly as "absurdity". Don't look for common sense in places where there is none.

that's funny,  I've moved at least 20 times in my life and have yet to find a place where absurdity was not present.   ( it could just be me .....thought i would get that in before someone else tries it )

Edited July 3, 2019 by rumak

[ToS2014]

5 hours ago, moe666 said:

Ok boys you have changed nothing by your rants. Yes it makes no sense to you but the Thais have some idea where you are at. Ask any immigration guy in america where his clints are living and he has no clue as there are no requirements for this type of reporting. If you hadn't noticed all of this reporting isn't for your benefit it is for Thai immigrations, and by extension the Thai Governments. Just go with the flow it will make life easier.

Sure would be interesting if the US would implement some of the Thai immigration laws....like 90 day (parole) reporting. I'd bet after a few imposed late fees and 1/5....etc year banning the illegal problem would become more manageable.  Oh wait.... The US allow illegal immigrants in without even a flippin passport.  There I go thinking lol

[natway09]

How many time I have suggested to stay on  B or retirement in particular if the requirements can be met easily. In your case you admit to not even leaving 400K in a bank account.

Should have left sleeping dogs lie

[bbz404]

3 minutes ago, natway09 said:

How many time I have suggested to stay on  B or retirement in particular if the requirements can be met easily. In your case you admit to not even leaving 400K in a bank account.

Should have left sleeping dogs lie

Why should I leave 400K in a bank account if I can meet their requirements with the salary??

[lifeincnx]

22 hours ago, bbz404 said:

didn't go the 400K route but rather the 40K Baht monthly income route as I normally don't keep my cash in TH. 40K income no problem to justify.

Each month I transfer above the 40K minimum in from the USA to my Bankgok Bank account. Curious as to what immigration required from you to verify? Printed monthly bank statements + bank book and/or a letter from Bangkok Bank as I'm doing my visa by marriage extension next month. Thanks in advance. 

[MartiniMan]

By default always easier use a regional immigration and not CW - very fast and simple process

Honestly the marriage visa was a good idea like u said if things go south at work just make sure you set it up at a small local office - CW is a nightmare avoid at all costs. The staff are so rude and I have had many run ins there and had to make many complaints all was sorted out in the end but we agreed dont use CW if possible - also if there is a protest in bkk then CW is shut down so by using a local office u got a good backup plan

[bbz404]

1 minute ago, lifeincnx said:

Each month I transfer above the 40K minimum in from the USA to my Bankgok Bank account. Curious as to what immigration required from you to verify? Printed monthly bank statements + bank book and/or a letter from Bangkok Bank as I'm doing my visa by marriage extension next month. Thanks in advance. 

I believe all they required were my bank book, 6 months statement printout. And the last 3 salary slips. A bit different for me as my income is from within Thailand. I also submitted my tax certificate.

[connda]

You're preaching to the choir my friend.  Most of us who are married to Thai women completely understand your frustration. 

My only advice is be willing to leave if the stupidity get, well, too stupid.  Have a plan and know your threshold for pulling the rip-cord.  Other than that, until that day comes you just grin a bear it.  It is totally screwed up, but it is what it is.  I feel your pain.

[KhaoYai]

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. Yes it seems crazy to have to report TM30 because surely you are reporting your address when you do your 90 day reports - but really, its very easy to report TM30 online and once set up, it only takes a couple of minutes. Just go with the flow, why get stressed over this?

[LivinLOS]

23 hours ago, Briggsy said:

This post will get me in trouble. 

 

Here is the logic. 

 

Government entities (e.g. Bangkok Immigration at Chaeng Watthana, etc.) do not share information or liaise with entities from different government ministries or even other departments within the same ministry and organisation. So Bangkok Immigration do not talk to Chonburi Immigration and they definitely don't share information with district offices and so on.

 

Orders come from above and are passed down. Reports are passed back up.

 

That means each entity we deal with, each office, each section within each office is like dealing with a whole separate country. It is extremely inefficient and that inefficiency is passed on to the foreigner in the form of numerous trips to Immigration and other government agencies to collect documents to satisfy Immigration. Just imagine if their systems were integrated. How much less work and how much more efficient it would be.

 

Why don't they share information? Primarily to keep full control over their little area (geographical or economy sector) that they have jurisdiction of. Secondly because nobody trusts anybody here, least not in the government. Thirdly they don't want other departments to be able to figure how much they are making in undeclared income. Fourthly, their I.T. systems are abysmal. Fifthly, simplistic, strictly vertical chains of command are the cultural norm here.

 

So, now, when you count the number of trips to Immigration (don't forget to include trips to other offices to get documents for Immigration) you know why. Same applies to renewing your road tax, Thai passports, i.d. cards, land transfer and so on.

Just replying to say well done.. nail on head.. 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

23 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

PHUKET

Did my road tax last week, 10 minutes to do the test, ( my car is over 6 years old) drive to the office, 2minutes, got my number, got my new sticker, all in another 10 minutes.

Note; ONLY need the cars book...

Normal country.. go no where, open a web page, pay instantly.. 

How is the above an improvement ?? 

[phuketrichard]

please show me a website that does smog checks for cars in Ca?
 

[LivinLOS]

14 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

please show me a website that does smog checks for cars in Ca?
 

vehicle inspection is separate process from road tax.. 

[Briggsy]

17 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

please show me a website that does smog checks for cars in Ca?
 

Whilst, of course, you need to take your vehicle to an inspection centre to be inspected, in a normal country, this information is fed into a national database by the garage. This database is instantly accessible by the vehicle agency who can instantly see if your vehicle has passed its inspection. You can pay your road tax online.

 

Compare to Thailand. The garage gives you a piece of paper with a stamp on it. This could be forged by you. You then need to take the piece of paper to the Land Transport Centre to process the road tax. 

 

A perfect and simple example of lack of integration between agencies including poor I.T. resulting in Joe Public having to traipse around collecting bits of paper and taking queue numbers. 

[kmw]

Hey OP, I think your making more of an issue as it's not, in your original post you said your on a BOE visa, same as me,

 

I actually got mine a few weeks ago, I have been here for the last 4 years and never done a tm30, never has been an issue, probably because we travel around every few weeks and stay at hotels that report, anyway thier are huge gaps as we own several properties here as well, I did ask HR about the tm30 and they told me not to worry,

 

Also BEO holders also do NOT need to 90 day report, I spoke to HR twice about this as only yearly reporting is needed, at this stage HR was getting a bit annoyed at me as they were kind of taking it as if I thought they were not doing thier job properly,

 

Even elite PE holders need to 90 day report but they just have a department that does this for them,

 

So in a nutshell you don't need to worry about tm30 or 90 day,

 

Link about 90 below as I read prior people saying that everyone needed to do it

 

http://www.consular.go.th/main/contents/images/text_editor/files/Criteria.pdf

Edited July 4, 2019 by kmw

[zydeco]

On 7/2/2019 at 6:44 PM, Chazar said:

farangs need to start making a fuss to their embassies to see  if they can do anything

The embassies could help kick this shakedown in the teeth if they would just post a travelers warning on their website, noting that all foreigners in Thailand are being made liable through fines and punishment for not having their change of places to stay filed within 24 hours. Of course, you can't even get through to the US embassy anymore.

[zydeco]

16 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

but really, its very easy to report TM30 online and once set up,

Been waiting four weeks for approval for my online registration for the TM30. Your suggestion is nonsense.

[Carolina Reaper]

On 7/3/2019 at 9:08 AM, Old Croc said:

If you move around internally,

This part isn't quite true. I've read the legal language surrounding this assertion and it's effectively neutralized by a separate paragraph that says that the 90-day reporting requirement for those staying longer than 90 days (i.e., on long stay visa or extension) satisfies the "internal movement" part of the overall TM30 reporting requirement, at least from the foreigner's point of view.

 

However, something like a hotel is never relieved of their TM30 reporting obligation.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Carolina Reaper
Clarification