65000 Baht Wire Transfer for Thai Retirement Visa (Failure and Scam)

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

What a nightmare, so how am i to comply with Thai Immigration requirements ?

I  believe in my friend's case it might well have been Bangkok Bank. You just need to wait and see if someone here can confirm a HSBC SWIFT transfer to SCB is marked as international. Or do it yourself.

 

Beyond that the choices are.

1) Try to show paperwork from HSBC to link initiation of a transfer to receipt at SCB and hope immigration accept it.

2) Look for a new account in Thailand, (or maybe home country, UK maybe). 

3) Consider lump sum to qualify for an  extension. 

4) Agent facilitation. 

[moe666]

As everyone has said send US dollars. if you send a swift transfer should have been straight thru to BKK. I have never had a problem with my credit union over the 8 years I have been living here full time

[Pumpuynarak]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I  believe in my friend's case it might well have been Bangkok Bank. You just need to wait and see if someone here can confirm a HSBC SWIFT transfer to SCB is marked as international. Or do it yourself.

 

Beyond that the choices are.

1) Try to show paperwork from HSBC to link initiation of a transfer to receipt at SCB and hope immigration accept it.

2) Look for a new account in Thailand, (or maybe home country, UK maybe). 

3) Consider lump sum to qualify for an  extension. 

4) Agent facilitation. 

Thanks for your post,

1) Well i can certainly show from my HSBC statement that a transfer was initiated. 

2) How will a new account in Thailand help me if HSBC as the originator chooses to use an intermediary to send my transfer ? i don't think i can open a new account in the UK without being present, i live here and have done for 13 years and don't return to the UK.

3) Yes a lump sum is an option but not an option i wish to use. Thai Immigration have a monthly income option which it would appear is unuseable for many and for those that can is fraught with problems and no guarantees that your transfers will be coded correctly (TW to Bangkok Bank), HTF can that be right ?

4) Yes the use of an agent is the way forward but i live in Korat and i am not aware of any agents operating here, if anyone knows of one please advise. 

[Joe Mcseismic]

On 7/8/2019 at 9:06 AM, tracy3eyes said:

Is anyone sending from the UK to the Bangkok Bank and getting a FTT code? If so how? Which currency transfer outfit in UK send direct to the Bangkok bank?

I regularly send money from my UK bank (Barclays) to Bangkok Bank and FTT is logged in my Bangkok Bank passbook.

This is because Barclays agent bank in Thailand is Bangkok Bank, so it goes direct.

If I held a Kasikorn Bank account (I don't) the money would still be sent to Bangkok Bank and then on to Kasikorn and would not show up as a foreign telegraphic transfer, but, a domestic one.

You have to find out which Thai bank your home bank uses as it's agent and then open an account with that Thai bank.

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

2) How will a new account in Thailand help me if HSBC as the originator chooses to use an intermediary to send my transfer ? i don't think i can open a new account in the UK without being present, i live here and have done for 13 years and don't return to the UK.

 

3) Yes a lump sum is an option but not an option i wish to use. Thai Immigration have a monthly income option which it would appear is unuseable for many and for those that can is fraught with problems and no guarantees that your transfers will be coded correctly (TW to Bangkok Bank), HTF can that be right ?

4) Yes the use of an agent is the way forward but i live in Korat and i am not aware of any agents operating here, if anyone knows of one please advise. 

2).  I believe I have read of people here transferring from HSBC and having it suitably marked on arrival in Thailand. Just a matter of knowing which bank(s) HSBC deal with. 

3) Transferwise to Bangkok Bank is claimed as reliable but not 100%. I am fortunate that my UK/Offshore bank sends directly to Bangkok Bank via SWIFT and it is labelled as FTT. 

4) I am not living in the Korat area but have heard of an agent in KK arranging things, BUT not sure where the extension is from. 

 

Why not do a small txfer to SCB from HSBC, we might be worrying over nothing. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by jacko45k

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

 

3) Transferwise to Bangkok Bank is claimed as reliable but not 100%.

Oh, it's far from reliable now based on all  the recent posts in related Transferwise threads/posts (such as below) stating how quite a few folks are now receiving SMT/SMART coding vs the FTT/International Transfer coding for their Transferwise transfers to Bangkok Bank.

 

 

[Pib]

12 hours ago, tracy3eyes said:

 

I explained my dilemma to the chap there and my experience at the Changklan Rd Branch. Anyway he said that if I brought the international transfer printouts provided provided by my branch he would produced a letter stating my account balance to accompany them to immigration. Not sure if this is exactly what IMO want. Thought they wanted a letter with the list of the international transfer in the letter? Does anyone have an example of the required format of the Bank letter? I said I would then take what he gave me along with my pass book and a statement to the IMO to ask them if this was acceptable.

Really any Bangkok Bank branch can prepare the account balance type letter because any branch can see your basic account info like name, account number, current balance, etc.  That letter is a very basic letter providing your name, account number, current balance, etc....a short & sweet letter which is used if using the Bt800K on deposit method for your extension of stay.

 

However, the other letter which you are looking for will show the individual monthly international transfers you have done.   Like list an international transfer for Jan, list an international transfer for Feb, etc....etc....etc.  Now that letter requires the branch to pull retrievals from your account looking specifically for transfers coded as international transfers. 

 

Now, branches can not see more that 6 months back...for that they need to submit a request to the Bangkok Bank Head Office in Bangkok on Silom Rd...in the HQ Bangkok Bank building....which takes several business days to a week.    With the kind of letter individually listing each international transfer the immigration officer doesn't need to look at a bunch of supporting docs like Credit Advices, Transferwise PDF receipts, other possible transfer docs, etc., to confirm you have been doing the required monthly transfers.   

 

Out of curiosity when getting a Credit Advice for a recent international transfer at the Bangkok Bank head office which happens to be my branch I paid the Bt100 to get the monthly international transfer letter just to see what it looked like....and it was nothing more than what I described above.  Starts off by giving the very basic account info and then individually lists the international transfers right on the letter.   I posted a redacted version of that letter months ago but can't find it now trying to search thru my ThaiVisa attachments previously uploaded because the ThaiVisa system is just too durn slow....like watching grass grow in when searching for past posts/attachments.  I'll continue to look...maybe I can spot it later in the slow growing grass.

 

Edit: never fails....found it right after initially posting.  The letter was all in Thai language...I just added some English translation.  

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Pib

[Pumpuynarak]

37 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

2).  I believe I have read of people here transferring from HSBC and having it suitably marked on arrival in Thailand. Just a matter of knowing which bank(s) HSBC deal with. 

3) Transferwise to Bangkok Bank is claimed as reliable but not 100%. I am fortunate that my UK/Offshore bank sends directly to Bangkok Bank via SWIFT and it is labelled as FTT. 

4) I am not living in the Korat area but have heard of an agent in KK arranging things, BUT not sure where the extension is from. 

 

Why not do a small txfer to SCB from HSBC, we might be worrying over nothing. 

4) I believe KK has their own IO and i would need an agent using Korat IO.

 

Like you suggest i'll do a small transfer today and see what pans out.

[SooKee]

I've just returned from Korat IO where wifey and i spoke to the Chief IO to inform her that i could'nt evidence that my transfers had come from the UK by way of TW due to the fact they were not coded when credited to my SCB account as FRC (from abroad)

I took all my SCB bank statements (all printed off by me) from Jan this year to July together with the TW PDF's (all printed off by me) she had a good look and said "don't worry" all we want to see is that you are transferring money each month into your SCB account from abroad and she said that i can see from the evidence you have supplied.

I did inform her that in future (August onwards) i will do a swift transfer from my HSBC UK account direct into my SCB account here and that will show as a foreign transaction, she was happy and once again said "don't worry". I'll have to just put up with the higher charges and bad exchange rate from SCB.

 

I think wifey had a good chat to her and said we've been married 13 years and living together here in Thailand and always transferred the money monthly from the UK and she did'nt want to lose her husband lol   

 

I'll be interested to see how the HSBC transfer goes. I use HSBC and stopped using them for transfers to Thailand about two years ago, not because of anything to do with transfer coding (which didn't matter then) but due to the fact they changed (or rather lost) their agent arrangements in Thailand and started using Intermediary banks to send money here. So on a £100 test transfer it was the very attractive sounding £4 flat fee transfer PLUS £14 Intermediary fee (the Intermediary rate you won't be aware of, or even that one has been applied, until the money arrives) then the bank here gets to convert just £86!! That was using HSBC > Kasikorn.

Then because of all this crap with FTT codes I opened a BKK Bank account to get FTT codes from TW which was, and as of a few days ago still is, working. When I opened the account I did a test transfer of funds from HSBC to both Kasikorn and Bangkok Banks, just to see if anything had changed. Both got hit with high Intermediary fees so HSBC is still off my transfer list. Repeated testing gets costly!

Being hit with high SWIFT charges when you know what they will be up front is bad enough. Having some random charge that you won't know about until the money arrives (and even though you'll only know because the funds that arrive are light), and even then won't appear on the statements from banks at either end, is even worse.

[Pumpuynarak]

1 hour ago, SooKee said:

I'll be interested to see how the HSBC transfer goes. I use HSBC and stopped using them for transfers to Thailand about two years ago, not because of anything to do with transfer coding (which didn't matter then) but due to the fact they changed (or rather lost) their agent arrangements in Thailand and started using Intermediary banks to send money here. So on a £100 test transfer it was the very attractive sounding £4 flat fee transfer PLUS £14 Intermediary fee (the Intermediary rate you won't be aware of, or even that one has been applied, until the money arrives) then the bank here gets to convert just £86!! That was using HSBC > Kasikorn.

Then because of all this crap with FTT codes I opened a BKK Bank account to get FTT codes from TW which was, and as of a few days ago still is, working. When I opened the account I did a test transfer of funds from HSBC to both Kasikorn and Bangkok Banks, just to see if anything had changed. Both got hit with high Intermediary fees so HSBC is still off my transfer list. Repeated testing gets costly!

Being hit with high SWIFT charges when you know what they will be up front is bad enough. Having some random charge that you won't know about until the money arrives (and even though you'll only know because the funds that arrive are light), and even then won't appear on the statements from banks at either end, is even worse.

Thanks for your post, yes i am aware of the fee charged by my Thai bank which was never charged before the middle of last year when i transferred 2000gbp from HSBC and was charged 15gbp by HSBC on top of the 4gbp, i elected to "pay all fees" to HSBC and not pay any fee to SCB, this is when i decided to go over to TW.

 

I've just done a small 100gbp transfer to my SCB account from HSBC and paid the 4gbp fee, lets see what happens at this end, will it show as a foreign transaction and how much will SCB charge ?

 

I also could open a BB account and get TW to forward to them but it would appear that there is no guarantee that it would be coded as a foreign transaction despite making phone calls to TW.

 

What a crock of s... 

[UKresonant]

Just got my latest Krungsri GBP FCD statement.

For Info

Halifax online Transferred 1300 GBP,  with 9.5OGBP Flat Fee on top.

Krungsri statement shows 1295 GBP, SWF code = SWIFT deposit (So 5 GBP disappeared, will have to ask them) and then 5.10 CF = Collection Fee withdrawal on the same day, same teller code.

19.60 GBP or 1.5% in total

Thai Baht withdrawals are at their published TT Ex rate.

[Pib]

9 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Just got my latest Krungsri GBP FCD statement.

For Info

Halifax online Transferred 1300 GBP,  with 9.5OGBP Flat Fee on top.

Krungsri statement shows 1295 GBP, SWF code = SWIFT deposit (So 5 GBP disappeared, will have to ask them) and then 5.10 CF = Collection Fee withdrawal on the same day, same teller code.

19.60 GBP or 1.5% in total

Thai Baht withdrawals are at their published TT Ex rate.

 

Yeap....with only 1295 arriving the Krungsri inbox so to speak an intermediary bank sliced off 5GBP and continued the remaining amount.

 

I expect that CF is really Krungsri's 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) inward remittance fee converted to GBP...pretty standard fee for most Thai banks regardless of the currency arriving...whether in a foreign currency or already converted to baht.

 

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/getmedia/0bde49d6-4b2f-440e-aab6-c75f59261f98/deposit-withdrawal-fees-for-foreigner-en.pdf.aspx

 

[FredLee]

4 hours ago, jimmyyy said:

Navy Fed CU i just phone them and they transfer the money to Kasikorn, i don't need a US Cell phone number or anything like that.  When i used to use ACH with bangkok bank i simply did it online.  Now i just use kasikorn its very easy and takes usually 2 hours to complete.  Navy Fed and Kasikorn both use Wells fargo as the intermediary bank so SWIFTS are done very quickly.  I have never waited over 3 hours for one to arrive.  25 USD fee for one transfer a month of 3000 USD.

Jimmyyy I also use NFCU, and plan on starting my SWIFT wire transfers next month. (currently using ACH with BBK)  Do you know what fees, if any, that Wells Fargo deducts as the correspondent/intermediary bank? 

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

4) I believe KK has their own IO and i would need an agent using Korat IO.

I have heard of people using agents who ended up with an Extension originating from another area than where they live. How on earth that all works out who knows, other than the agent must take care of everything else, ie 90 day reporting, TM 30 and even a Re-Entry Permit.

[SooKee]

Thanks for your post, yes i am aware of the fee charged by my Thai bank which was never charged before the middle of last year when i transferred 2000gbp from HSBC and was charged 15gbp by HSBC on top of the 4gbp, i elected to "pay all fees" to HSBC and not pay any fee to SCB, this is when i decided to go over to TW.
 
I've just done a small 100gbp transfer to my SCB account from HSBC and paid the 4gbp fee, lets see what happens at this end, will it show as a foreign transaction and how much will SCB charge ?
 
I also could open a BB account and get TW to forward to them but it would appear that there is no guarantee that it would be coded as a foreign transaction despite making phone calls to TW.
 
What a crock of s... 

You were lucky to be hit for 'only' £15 on £2,000. When I was in touch with a bunch of people about this when HSBCs change of policy hit, one guy got charged £40 on a £1,000 transfer!

The Thai bank fees I don't mind. You'll know what they'll be. The HSBC Intermediary fees, heck it's like Russian roulette. From the group that were doing various tests back then there were varying totally random Intermediary fee rates, above the £4 BS rate they quote:

£7 on £50 (common)
£14 on £100
£23 and £18 on £500
£19, £28 and a whopping £40 on £1,000!

And no audit trail of these fees either end Statement wise. Even HSBC won't tell you. They say the only way to check will be a transfer enquiry which then cost something ridiculous.

Wouldn't be quite so so bad if you could work out how much you'd be mugged for based on the sum transferred but as per above, you couldn't. I'm kinda guessing your £50 will result in 700-800 baht less than you'd expect. Be great if it doesn't.

[SooKee]

Just got my latest Krungsri GBP FCD statement.
For Info
Halifax online Transferred 1300 GBP,  with 9.5OGBP Flat Fee on top.
Krungsri statement shows 1295 GBP, SWF code = SWIFT deposit (So 5 GBP disappeared, will have to ask them) and then 5.10 CF = Collection Fee withdrawal on the same day, same teller code.
19.60 GBP or 1.5% in total
Thai Baht withdrawals are at their published TT Ex rate.

You were lucky it was only £5. These Intermediary charges can get ridiculously high and you have no way of knowing what they'll be.

[tracy3eyes]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

Really any Bangkok Bank branch can prepare the account balance type letter because any branch can see your basic account info like name, account number, current balance, etc.  That letter is a very basic letter providing your name, account number, current balance, etc....a short & sweet letter which is used if using the Bt800K on deposit method for your extension of stay.

 

However, the other letter which you are looking for will show the individual monthly international transfers you have done.   Like list an international transfer for Jan, list an international transfer for Feb, etc....etc....etc.  Now that letter requires the branch to pull retrievals from your account looking specifically for transfers coded as international transfers. 

 

Now, branches can not see more that 6 months back...for that they need to submit a request to the Bangkok Bank Head Office in Bangkok on Silom Rd...in the HQ Bangkok Bank building....which takes several business days to a week.    With the kind of letter individually listing each international transfer the immigration officer doesn't need to look at a bunch of supporting docs like Credit Advices, Transferwise PDF receipts, other possible transfer docs, etc., to confirm you have been doing the required monthly transfers.   

 

Out of curiosity when getting a Credit Advice for a recent international transfer at the Bangkok Bank head office which happens to be my branch I paid the Bt100 to get the monthly international transfer letter just to see what it looked like....and it was nothing more than what I described above.  Starts off by giving the very basic account info and then individually lists the international transfers right on the letter.   I posted a redacted version of that letter months ago but can't find it now trying to search thru my ThaiVisa attachments previously uploaded because the ThaiVisa system is just too durn slow....like watching grass grow in when searching for past posts/attachments.  I'll continue to look...maybe I can spot it later in the slow growing grass.

 

Edit: never fails....found it right after initially posting.  The letter was all in Thai language...I just added some English translation.  

 

 

 

Thank you. That is very useful. I will show the example at the bank so he can see it is more than just balance needed.

[UKresonant]

Further to #167, forgot to mention Krungsri can print me off the last 12 months transactions in minutes!

[FredLee]

16 hours ago, FredLee said:

Jimmyyy I also use NFCU, and plan on starting my SWIFT wire transfers next month. (currently using ACH with BBK)  Do you know what fees, if any, that Wells Fargo deducts as the correspondent/intermediary bank? 

Never mind. NFCU finally got back to me. They say there is no additional fee applied to the transaction by Wells Fargo.

[ThaiBob]

After my July 1st TW transfer was not coded FTT by BB, I did a traditional ACH transfer from my Schwab account to BB NYC. 2300 USD/70k THB initiated on July 8th (evening) and received in my BB account on morning of July 10th coded FTT in my passbook. How long I can do this, who knows? A friend recently did a TW test transfer after receiving email from TW future transfers would be tagged and be "foreign sourced" but it didn't happen. 

[Pumpuynarak]

20 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

I've just done a small 100gbp transfer to my SCB account from HSBC and paid the 4gbp fee, lets see what happens at this end, will it show as a foreign transaction and how much will SCB charge ?

Well would you believe i did my swift transfer at circa 10am Thai time and at 2pm it was in my SCB account !!! the amount was 3473.75 bht, this amount was obviously including their fee and awful exchange rate, no where was the fee shown separatley, clever ehh...

 

BUT the most important issue was that it showed as a FRC1 (Foreign Remittance/settlement) on my bank statement so it is the way forward for me to go.

 

Does anyone know the fees charged by SCB for swift transfers before i contact them ? i find their call center rarely has the answer and they have to call me back which sometimes does'nt happen. I reckon i was charged something like 300bht for 100gbp, i would think the more you transfer the charge will reduce.     

[Pumpuynarak]

19 hours ago, SooKee said:

I'm kinda guessing your £50 will result in 700-800 baht less than you'd expect. Be great if it doesn't.

It was 100gbp and i reckon the SCB fee was circa 300bht.

 

19 hours ago, SooKee said:

And no audit trail of these fees either end Statement wise. Even HSBC won't tell you. They say the only way to check will be a transfer enquiry which then cost something ridiculous.

My 15gbp charge when swift transferring 2000gbp was clearly stated on my HSBC statement.

[SooKee]

My 15gbp charge when swift transferring 2000gbp was clearly stated on my HSBC statement.

If it's a fee HSBC are charging it will. If it's an intermediary fee it won't.

[Pumpuynarak]

15 hours ago, SooKee said:

23 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

My 15gbp charge when swift transferring 2000gbp was clearly stated on my HSBC statement.

If it's a fee HSBC are charging it will. If it's an intermediary fee it won't.

But if its a swift transfer why would they be using an intermediary, i thought swift was direct.

[Henryford]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:29 PM, UKresonant said:

Just got my latest Krungsri GBP FCD statement.

For Info

Halifax online Transferred 1300 GBP,  with 9.5OGBP Flat Fee on top.

Krungsri statement shows 1295 GBP, SWF code = SWIFT deposit (So 5 GBP disappeared, will have to ask them) and then 5.10 CF = Collection Fee withdrawal on the same day, same teller code.

19.60 GBP or 1.5% in total

Thai Baht withdrawals are at their published TT Ex rate. 

So if i understand it correctly you paid 19.60 GBP in fees and got a rate of @38.1 ? compared to TW's fees of 10 GBP and rate of 38.55. TW would save @ 1000 baht.

[SammyJ]

On 7/3/2019 at 5:49 PM, glegolo said:

The rest of us other guys, most of us, use Transferwise it seems, and even for you in USA it seems to work out nicely.

Try that and do not give up..

 

glegolo

i was using tw as well, and it seemed ok, to my bkk bank acct, but my last transfer of just last week, did not show as an international transfer, but as an "interbank transfer via SMART---yes, i had been made aware that this could happen rarely, but it seems that now, via a new TW processing that makes the transfer take place more quickly, but at the same time means that it likely will not show here as an international transfer.

 

I hope this is incorrect, though--has anyone used TW in the past few days to bkk bank and seen it listed as an international transfer??  Also, if using SWIFT from the US--can anyone recommend the US bank they use--I use Discover online, as it was possible to open an account with them while I am here in Thailand, but making the SWIFT transfers is a real hassle--as they want local US ph numbers, etc to text codes to.  anyone using a US ph number--via SKYPE or others to resolve this?

 

Thanks for any advice!

[BestB]

On 7/3/2019 at 5:37 PM, simple1 said:

OP: Sounds as though your US bank are using Kasikorn as their corresponding bank who have charged the fee of 451 baht for the transaction. Not a rip-off / scam. If I were you I would send an email to Wells Fargo FX Department requesting a solution to your issue.

Before Citi bank was intermediary bank but now K Bank is. Not too sure as of when change happened .

 

Funny thing is before when it was Citibank , receiving bank charged a fee on behalf of Citibank for service , now that K bank is the one, even if your account is with KBank , they still charge the fee

[tracy3eyes]

9 hours ago, SammyJ said:

i was using tw as well, and it seemed ok, to my bkk bank acct, but my last transfer of just last week, did not show as an international transfer, but as an "interbank transfer via SMART---yes, i had been made aware that this could happen rarely, but it seems that now, via a new TW processing that makes the transfer take place more quickly, but at the same time means that it likely will not show here as an international transfer.

 

I hope this is incorrect, though--has anyone used TW in the past few days to bkk bank and seen it listed as an international transfer??  Also, if using SWIFT from the US--can anyone recommend the US bank they use--I use Discover online, as it was possible to open an account with them while I am here in Thailand, but making the SWIFT transfers is a real hassle--as they want local US ph numbers, etc to text codes to.  anyone using a US ph number--via SKYPE or others to resolve this?

 

Thanks for any advice!

My TW tester came in as SMT. MY Halifax tester came in as FTT

[treetops]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:24 AM, Pumpuynarak said:

But if its a swift transfer why would they be using an intermediary, i thought swift was direct.

My understanding of it all:

 

Not all banks have the necessary agreements in place to facilitate all transactions.  If they don't, then intermediary, or correspondent, banks are required.

 

These correspondent banks take a fee for doing the transaction, which is often not detailed anywhere, and the arrangements in place now may be changed at any time without your knowledge.  It's this risk of change in correspondent banks that puts this method at risk of suddenly changing to looking like a domestic transfer, which is exactly what people are trying to avoid.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071715/what-role-does-correspondent-bank-play-international-transaction.asp

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by treetops
Add link

[Parvis]

I have not yet applied for my retirement extension under the "new" rules. However my method to transfer 65k+/month is as follows - without any apparent problems. I transfer from BofA to Bkk Bank.

1) I wire-transfer in US$ and transmittance shows as FTT - cost is $45 each transfer

2) Initially I tried to transfer in Thai Baht from US - with verrrry poor exchange rates

3) My scheduled retirement extension will be in 2 weeks - so we shall see.