Embassy stat dec with pension information not accepted by immigration office

[wtfracing]

Question - has immigration decided to not accept embassy statuary declarations of income with pension information attached for marriage extension now as happened to me today.

Also told money transfer per month or fixed deposit was what they wanted.

Any information or link to actual police order would be much appreciated

 

[lopburi3]

What country?  Those issued by USA/UK are now older than six months so would not be valid.

[jacko45k]

UK, Oz and USA no longer issue Embassy letters and any old one will be beyond 6 months old and not accepted.

Which nationality are you?

I believe letters from other Embassies are still being accepted ALTHOUGH there was rumour of one or two IOs had misinterpreted the situation early this year to say no Embassy letters were being accepted, Phuket may be one I think of. So which IO do you use?

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by jacko45k

[wtfracing]

New Zealand embassy stat dec certified by MFA only 4 days old and Saraburi immigration 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, wtfracing said:

New Zealand embassy stat dec certified by MFA only 4 days old and Saraburi immigration 

Your stat dec should've been accepted. It is income by transfers into the country or proof from your embassy.

Download the order. Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income 

[wtfracing]

Thanks ubonjoe that is what I  explained to them but they just would not listen or accept, they only wanted to push the transfer or deposit method and readily gave free certificate of  residence for  new bank account. I have  been doing it this way for 7 years at 2 other immigration offices who went by the rules and always understood and accepted the embassy declaration as they should.

[Tanoshi]

They may have refused your Stat Dec if you couldn't provide secondary proof that you were transferring sufficient funds to cover living expenses in Thailand.

[wtfracing]

Secondary proof was provided as per every other year with pension details but was not even looked at.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, wtfracing said:

Secondary proof was provided as per every other year with pension details but was not even looked at.

Secondary proof is now a Thai bank statement showing overseas transfers.

[wtfracing]

The problem seemed to be that the person refused a hand written statuary declaration done at the embassy with secondary proof attached and certified by embassy and Thailand MFA which is  how the declaration are supposed to be done unless there is a new way I don't know of.

[lopburi3]

13 minutes ago, wtfracing said:

The problem seemed to be that the person refused a hand written statuary declaration done at the embassy with secondary proof attached and certified by embassy and Thailand MFA which is  how the declaration are supposed to be done unless there is a new way I don't know of.

That must be office specific as there was no such requirement at Bangkok - you provided embassy letter and that was it.  You only provided additional financial paperwork if asked and that was not common.

[wtfracing]

Every year I have  always supplied the secondary information even if not requested and as for marriage extension I supplied 2 copies of everything but was told only need to  supply 1 copy as it will be scanned into computer.

Just tired of different rules for different people when you do it by the book as per their rules. Wife not impressed by them either after today.

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, wtfracing said:

Every year I have  always supplied the secondary information even if not requested

Such as foreign Pension statements at a guess?

For one they cannot be verified, they come in a variety of languages, can be easily forged, and they can't be used to purchased bread or milk from Big C.

 

Immigration are also now much the wiser that these Embassy Income letters for the most part are worthless and any secondary supporting documents that they can verify are Thai bank statements.

If you can't prove your transferring some funds to Thailand, then how do you support your wife?

From Immigrations point of view, your income could therefore come from working illegally.

 

 

[wtfracing]

Actually it was foreign bank statements showing pension deposits and withdrawals in Thailand every 2 weeks but  I  suppose even that would not suit your agenda.

Also I dont make the rules regarding the documents regarding the income letters I just follow what is the law made by immigration and  what they allow but found out today each office do what they like but thanks for your input.

 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, wtfracing said:

Secondary proof was provided as per every other year with pension details but was not even looked at.

The secondary proof they wanted was a Thai bank statement for 12 months. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by marcusarelus

[UKresonant]

So, Immigration are also now much the wiser, From Immigrations point of view......, and these Embassy Income letters for the most part are worthless and are exactly what they are asking for in the order ????.

I'm now doing regular transfers to Thailand to create an average of 40100baht a month, but who knows if it will ever be of any use in the figure! 

I sympathise with your situation, you would think there would be a central office to go to, should you encounter an unfriendly tribe, that could sort it. 

Is there friction between the MFA and the RTP perhaps? 

[Tanoshi]

26 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

So, Immigration are also now much the wiser, From Immigrations point of view......, and these Embassy Income letters for the most part are worthless and are exactly what they are asking for in the order ????.

Look at the bigger picture and events that have taken place over the last 12 months.

Immigration assumed foreign Embassies were 'verifying' incomes declared on the letters presented to them, then they discovered foreigners couldn't provided supporting documentation to substantiate the incomes they declared to their Embassies.

This led to months off negotiations between relevant Embassies and Immigration, resulting in the biggest 3 in terms of expat ratio, withdrawing the service because they could not verify the evidence.

It was assumed that all the Embassies would have little choice other than to follow suit, then Immigration announced an amendment to orders, which one, accepted Income letters 'certified' by the Embassy, rather than the 'verified' they insisted upon for so long, and secondly allowing acceptance of Thai bank statements as proof of income, which TI could verify.

 

Embassy Income letters may still be acceptable, but they now know the stated incomes are not and cannot be verified by the Embassies, therefore they can only be accepted in good faith.

Asking for secondary supporting documentation is becoming more prevalent when providing Income letters to TI and the now approved method of that additional evidence is Thai bank statements.

 

Foreign bank statements, Pension statements, have never been acceptable as proof of income.

Had they been, then we wouldn't have needed the services of our Embassies in the first place.

 

[UKresonant]

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Look at the bigger picture and events that have taken place over the last 12 months.

Immigration assumed foreign Embassies were 'verifying' incomes declared on the letters presented to them, then they discovered foreigners couldn't provided supporting documentation to substantiate the incomes they declared to their Embassies.

This led to months off negotiations between relevant Embassies and Immigration, resulting in the biggest 3 in terms of expat ratio, withdrawing the service because they could not verify the evidence.

It was assumed that all the Embassies would have little choice other than to follow suit, then Immigration announced an amendment to orders, which one, accepted Income letters 'certified' by the Embassy, rather than the 'verified' they insisted upon for so long, and secondly allowing acceptance of Thai bank statements as proof of income, which TI could verify.

 

Embassy Income letters may still be acceptable, but they now know the stated incomes are not and cannot be verified by the Embassies, therefore they can only be accepted in good faith.

Asking for secondary supporting documentation is becoming more prevalent when providing Income letters to TI and the now approved method of that additional evidence is Thai bank statements.

 

Foreign bank statements, Pension statements, have never been acceptable as proof of income.

Had they been, then we wouldn't have needed the services of our Embassies in the first place.

 

But,

they have not given 12 months notice of withdrawing, the Embassy letter acceptance,

For many it is like pantomimes when trying to open a Bank account to provide that type of secondary proof. Must have a work permit etc.

 

The average income may be do-able but the same amount every month after tax, from a pension, similar ball park perhaps.

 

If it is an annuity, the contract could have been set up quarterly.

 

If you were arranging your financial affairs for the perhaps 10years ahead with the dream of coming to Thailand, you can't anticipate the changes that pop-up,

 

e.g. Non O ME financials (London, though not enforced), £1400/month, so allow £1470 say, index linked, write out the form (for first renewal), changed to £1500, ok could prove that.....

15 months in and they announce they are discontinuing the ME visa type!

 

Difficult to prepare for what an IO notion on the day might be, but easy to be more disillusioned every day.....

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by UKresonant

[marcusarelus]

20 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

But,
they have not given 12 months notice of withdrawing

Why would they want or need to give anyone 12 months notice?

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Why would they want or need to give anyone 12 months notice?

Because they are asking people to provide a different type of proof for a period of 12 months perhaps?   The previous and still official requirement was/is income - not proof of deposits into a Thai bank account.

[jesimps]

13 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Secondary proof is now a Thai bank statement showing overseas transfers.

If that's the case then it isn't worth getting the embassy letter in the first place, just go for the bank intl transfer letter and save the embassy fee. I thought the secondary proof was your pension etc documents from your home country?

Edited July 9, 2019 by jesimps

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, jesimps said:

If that's the case then it isn't worth getting the embassy letter in the first place, just go for the intl bank transfer letter and save the embassy fee. I thought the secondary proof was your pension etc documents from your home country?

Do not believe there is any fixed secondary proof requirement - you present what you have - immigration accepts or does not accept.

[Carolina Reaper]

17 hours ago, jacko45k said:

UK, Oz and USA no longer issue Embassy letters

Isn't there a 4th country? ... Denmark, iirc.

[kingstonkid]

Not sure maybe JOE can advise but \could it be that it was handwritten that was the issue.  Handwriting is not quite ad official looking as a typed and signed document on official letterhead.

 

As to those that think the embassies do not check go to the Canadian Embassy.  

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Carolina Reaper said:

Isn't there a 4th country? ... Denmark, iirc.

They initially stopped doing letters, but I have heard they have re-introduced them with a slightly different format.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, kingstonkid said:

As to those that think the embassies do not check go to the Canadian Embassy.  

Or they could have gone to some of the others who certainly did not. 

[zydeco]

17 hours ago, wtfracing said:

New Zealand embassy stat dec certified by MFA only 4 days old and Saraburi immigration 

Might be dawning on immigration that they forgot to haul in the other two Anglo-Saxon countries, New Zealand and Canada. 

[madmen]

27 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Might be dawning on immigration that they forgot to haul in the other two Anglo-Saxon countries, New Zealand and Canada. 

They didn't haul anyone it was the spineless big 4 that threw there citizens under the bus. 

[wtfracing]

The frustrating part is the time involved in traveling to the embassy and the MFA completing everything as per their rules and requirements only to have it brushed aside because someone choses to make their own interpretation.

But what other choice is there but to adap to want they want so will do the transfer to thai bank account this year and consider alternatives for next years extension or elite option. Thanks for all the replies much appreciated.

[dsj]

56 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Not sure maybe JOE can advise but \could it be that it was handwritten that was the issue.  Handwriting is not quite ad official looking as a typed and signed document on official letterhead.

 

As to those that think the embassies do not check go to the Canadian Embassy.  

You are right, last October the Canadian Embassy wanted to see my latest tax return before they would issue an income verification letter.