Why dont more people become PR

[dcnx]

4 hours ago, dbrenn said:

He now leads a poverty stricken life, living from hand to mouth

That has nothing to do with where he lives and everything to do with his choices. 

 

Had he stayed in Thailand he would have probably ended up in the same situation.

[Don Mega]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Been the same for years.

Perhaps you are thinking of Thai citizenship for those not married to a Thai.

Thanks, I stand corrected and apologise for providing misleading information.

[NightSky]

Since getting a job was mentioned, what are the chances of getting a job in Thailand if you can speak a little Thai only? I operate small businesses but things are getting tougher by the day and a job might be the answer. 

[dbrenn]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why on earth do you not apply for citizenship, it only cost me 5,000 baht to apply. 

You still have to apply for reentry permits from immigration, you can't buy land. Waste of time IMHO, unless a step to naturalisation.

The only drawback is that you still need to maintain a visa while citizenship is under consideration, and that unmarried male applicants need PR to apply for citizenship.

 

Applicants for PR are allowed to stay while their PR is under consideration.

[expatfromwyoming]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why on earth do you not apply for citizenship, it only cost me 5,000 baht to apply. 

You still have to apply for reentry permits from immigration, you can't buy land. Waste of time IMHO, unless a step to naturalisation.

that is your opinion- thank you for it but I disagree

[dbrenn]

6 hours ago, dcnx said:

That has nothing to do with where he lives and everything to do with his choices. 

 

Had he stayed in Thailand he would have probably ended up in the same situation.

Very true, and back to my point: if he'd had PR, he could have stayed in Thailand, perhaps long enough to find a job that suited him.

[ThaiBunny]

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Probably because they cannot qualify for it.

The basic requirement is to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 consecutive years on extensions of stay.

Isn't there still an annual limit of 100 per country or has that been abolished

[expatfromwyoming]

10 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Isn't there still an annual limit of 100 per country or has that been abolished

yes but it is never filled

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, expatfromwyoming said:

Most long term stayers I know do

Most I know do not, only those who need it for their work.

[lamyai3]

13 hours ago, expatfromwyoming said:

Mystifies me as too why so few people do not go the PR red book route instead of endlessly being at the whims of an IO and jumping through hurdles ever 90 days. 

This process would have been considered too expensive and onerous by most when weighed up next to other visa and extension options pre-2019. 90 day reports by post have always been easy enough (at least until the TM30 came in to play), I would usually prepare two or three at a time to take care of the coming year.

 

PR certainly looks appealing now, but (like the Elite Visa prior to very recent times) it was never really necessary in the past. 

[Anders W Ferslev]

15 hours ago, Don Mega said:

How many are capable of Speaking, Reading and writing Thai ?

you dont need if you work here for 3 years and paid your taxes 

[battersea]

i went to Immigration and asked about PR and the work requirements...they told me I had to have a job that paid 80,000 baht per.month ?
is this correct ?

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Briggsy]

23 minutes ago, Anders W Ferslev said:

you dont need if you work here for 3 years and paid your taxes 

It is important to point out just working and paying taxes is not enough. You need to earn approximately 80,000 Baht per month to have sufficient taxable income to even be able to apply.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Isn't there still an annual limit of 100 per country or has that been abolished

Yes and you must have had a Thai non-immigrant visa for at least three years prior to the submission of your application. 

Nationalities that have several states that make up their nationality - such as the UK - are counted as one country. Same would apply to the U.S. that has 50 states, some with economies and populations larger than some foreign countries.

 

[alant]

16 hours ago, expatfromwyoming said:

I qualified amongst other conditions( having been married for 20 yrs) under the 3 – 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand.

so you didn't have to work? can you tell me where to find info on your way to qualify, thanks

[davidst01]

15 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

It is important to point out just working and paying taxes is not enough. You need to earn approximately 80,000 Baht per month to have sufficient taxable income to even be able to apply.

Actually I thought it was 40k a month. perhaps ubonjoe can clarify?

[expatfromwyoming]

Language seems to be an issue in most posts- If you don’t speak the language (Thai) you can only talk to a certain proportion of the people living here- what is the point in living here if all most seem to do-months of sitting and drinking with other expats- for me that would become depressingly boring. On a two week or month-long vacation spending a lot of time in bars drinking wouldn’t necessarily be a problem, although I guess it could be given the frequent news, but translate that to a lifestyle and it’s probably not going to go well.

Not integrating into the local culture is an issue, but that only becomes so much of a problem within the context of not setting up other ties and demands that would compensate for it. This non integration seems to be widespread and yet the same people are continually whining about "foreigners' doing exactly that in their  home country

Edited July 9, 2019 by expatfromwyoming

[GarryP]

9 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

Actually I thought it was 40k a month. perhaps ubonjoe can clarify?

40K is the minimum for citizenship and gets you 15 points. 80,001 up gets you 25 points. Not sure about PR.

[scorecard]

16 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Is that a recent thing or is my memory failing me ?

Not recent, long-term like what U.Joe mentioned.

[scorecard]

18 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

AFAIK that's still there. However seems only 2 nationalities that reach that number every year are India and China.

Actually the total number of applicants who ultimately get PR each year is quite small and the total numbers per country also very small and nowhere near the 100 / 50 maximum per year. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by scorecard

[Vacuum]

16 hours ago, expatfromwyoming said:

the 3 – 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand.

This could be a reason to your question. Who the heck would want to 'invest' 10M baht in Thailand?

[GarryP]

13 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

When I applied it was 85,000 THB/month. That was on official requirements list that were shown at application. That might have changed. I do know a person who applied at the same time and had less than that, around 70,000 but was married, had kids with his Thai wife, lived here since stone age, and could speak Thai better than a Thai. He got it and I met him when receiving the book.

 

Now why not go with citizenship? Getting Thai passport requires you to get rid of your original citizenship. Which means that you are only Thai. In the past people could get away with it by signing "intention" to get rid of it, but never really did it, keeping both passports. Now you need to submit a certified letter from your original citizenship's foreign ministry stating that you are cancelling it when you are awarded Thai citizenship.

 

For many who enjoy visa-free travel and would require weeks or months to get a visa to go for a funeral of a relative back to old homeland, that's just out of the question while any relatives there are still alive.

 

As I have not actually applied, someone can correct me here, but I did inquire about it, and that's what I was told. And yes, that I would also need to sing an anthem in front of 50 or so patriotic policemen, which for someone tone-deaf like me who will never be caught singing as long as I am alive was a good enough reason to skip.

 

It would be interesting to see whether anyone actually follows through on cancelling their original citizenship. Even with the letter, I understand you would need to take further action to actually go through with it. So to all intents an purposes it is a declaration of intent endorsed by the MoFA instead of the Embassy and has the same effect. 

 

BTW I did not sing the National or Royal Anthems, but then I applied based on marriage to a Thai.  Applications based on PR were the ones who could not avoid singing the anthems.  I too am tone deaf and am glad that I was not forced to sing.  Even if I could choose my own song, I would run a mile rather than sing in public.   

[scorecard]

17 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

When I applied it was 85,000 THB/month. That was on official requirements list that were shown at application. That might have changed. I do know a person who applied at the same time and had less than that, around 70,000 but was married, had kids with his Thai wife, lived here since stone age, and could speak Thai better than a Thai. He got it and I met him when receiving the book.

 

Now why not go with citizenship? Getting Thai passport requires you to get rid of your original citizenship. Which means that you are only Thai. In the past people could get away with it by signing "intention" to get rid of it, but never really did it, keeping both passports. Now you need to submit a certified letter from your original citizenship's foreign ministry stating that you are cancelling it when you are awarded Thai citizenship.

 

For many who enjoy visa-free travel and would require weeks or months to get a visa to go for a funeral of a relative back to old homeland, that's just out of the question while any relatives there are still alive.

 

As I have not actually applied, someone can correct me here, but I did inquire about it, and that's what I was told. And yes, that I would also need to sing an anthem in front of 50 or so patriotic policemen, which for someone tone-deaf like me who will never be caught singing as long as I am alive was a good enough reason to skip.

 

Last few words: You CAN lose PR easily. Like those with visa extension of stay need a re-entry permit to return with same conditions, PR holders need a "non-quota immigrant visa" and "endorsement". They are issued for validity of 1 year and you must return before they expire. Failing to get it and leaving the country means your entire PR is cancelled and you need to apply again. Difference between re-entry and non-quota visa is that re-entry can be applied for at the airport, while non quota visa can only be obtained from immigration office where PR was issued.

 

Second reason is if you commit any criminal act. And third if you are involved with any kind of illegal migration. I can't remember exact wording but the immigration officer answered when asking for clarification of what that means "if we come to your home and we find someone in Thailand illegally, like who entered country illegally or on overstay"... So maybe a word of warning to anyone with PR renting out their property...

 

But again, that's one officer saying this one time. I don't know what official wording is. But thought it's worth to mention that Permanent doesn't mean 100% permanent and can be revoked in 3 cases that I'm aware of.

Yes it can and should be revoked in some circumstances e. g, the person gets a criminal record in Thailand or anywhere.

 

Also, in any country a nasty government could change the rules / cancel the PR concept, but IMO very very doubtful that would happen in Thailand, but there is never a guarantee in any country.

 

 

[Smokegreynblues]

process is difficult,

too many hoops to jump,

the application desk doesn't speak any English only Thai.

3 year consecutive stay with Work permit,

very high minimum salary requirement,

a secret points system to qualify ,

Thai knowledge tests, thai civics test etc.

A minimum duration of marriage needed.

Lots of documents to be translated and attested. Limited to 100 per nationality .

Limited application window duration. also 98,000 baht/191,000 baht fee if approved. That's why. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Smokegreynblues

[GarryP]

3 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

This could be a reason to your question. Who the heck would want to 'invest' 10M baht in Thailand?

People who live and intend to stay here. There are quite a few of us.  

[WeekendRaider]

well, if you don't live in the Bangkok area..... you have to learn the spoken-only upper diglossia to get that..... and except to watch TV... you will never hear any "pasa Thai" except to order food or engage in small talk with some ajarn or other foreigners who studied it quite a bit.... but it is not useful enough unless you live somewhat isolated from the local folk always anyways.... and only talk with certain locals... which is quite common but is not really "living" here.

 

yes, it is written also.... but only phonetically and that is easy to learn... street sign pasa Thai without having to reach a conversational level in it... very easy.  but conversational "Thai"?  only useful for official work and TV or ordering simple food..... or hanging out mostly only with younger Thai I guess.... hmmm. but for relatively normal long stay tourists in most of the rest of Thailand? not conversational. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[GarryP]

2 minutes ago, Smokegreynblues said:

process is difficult,

too many hoops to jump,

the application desk doesn't speak any English only Thai.

3 year consecutive stay with Work permit,

very high minimum salary requirement,

a secret points system to qualify ,

Thai knowledge tests, thai civics test etc.

A minimum duration of marriage needed.

Lots of documents to be translated and attested. Limited to 100 per nationality .

Limited application window duration. also 98,000 baht/191,000 baht fee if approved. That's why. 

What language would you have officials speak in their home country? Would officials in the UK be expected to be able to speak Thai for the convenience of Thai applicants, or Vietnamese, or Cambodian? Yes, it would be great if officials could speak English, but I don't see why people should expect that. 

 

I do agree that the fee is too high. That is the reason I never went for PR. I was holding out for when the law changed to allow foreign men married to Thai women to apply for citizenship. Luckily for me, the law did indeed change. Otherwise I would be kicking myself black and blue for not biting the bullet and applying for PR.     

[Surasak]

17 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Probably because they cannot qualify for it.

The basic requirement is to be working with a work permit and paying taxes for 3 consecutive years on extensions of stay.

Agree Joe. A person on a retirement visa can't get a work permit, so does not qualify.

[Vacuum]

10 minutes ago, GarryP said:

People who live and intend to stay here. There are quite a few of us.  

Yes, I'm one of those, no 'investments' though.

[Smokegreynblues]

19 minutes ago, GarryP said:

What language would you have officials speak in their home country? Would officials in the UK be expected to be able to speak Thai for the convenience of Thai applicants, or Vietnamese, or Cambodian? Yes, it would be great if officials could speak English, but I don't see why people should expect that. 

 

I do agree that the fee is too high. That is the reason I never went for PR. I was holding out for when the law changed to allow foreign men married to Thai women to apply for citizenship. Luckily for me, the law did indeed change. Otherwise I would be kicking myself black and blue for not biting the bullet and applying for PR.     

Considering Thailand allows bilingual forms for most things and signboards across the nation in English. Every Fine and receipt being bilingual.  Also PR doesn't list speaking Thai as a necessity, It makes sense for the desk to speak rudimentary English if not perfect. While i don't expect such anymore given the cold stare at that desk upon speaking English. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Smokegreynblues