Why dont more people become PR

[dbrenn]

3 hours ago, Smokegreynblues said:

Considering Thailand allows bilingual forms for most things and signboards across the nation in English. Every Fine and receipt being bilingual.  Also PR doesn't list speaking Thai as a necessity, It makes sense for the desk to speak rudimentary English if not perfect. While i don't expect such anymore given the cold stare at that desk upon speaking English. 

PR (the clue is in what the 'P' stands for) is intended for those who have a level of commitment to Thailand, so it's not unreasonable to expect some knowledge of the language. Many other countries have similar expectations of PR applicants.

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, Arkady said:

Definitely PR provides such peace of mind but what got me increasingly frustrated was: 1) hardly any Thais outside Immigration and the police understood what PR was and didn't recognize the alien book; 2) having to provide photocopies of five books - passport, alien book, residence book, tabien baan and work permit; 3) still having to get work permits. 

 

Now I only need to provide a copy of my ID card and tabien baan and am free to work and own my own business and land and have given up that annual pilgrimage to Immigration at CW where can't do the simple endorsements on the spot. You have to either wait for three hours or come back the next day (or send a messenger). 

But if you have a visa and can meet the requirements than that is just as much peace of mind and usually a lot easier and cheaper.  

 

Also CM immigration is not like that theses days.... don't know the last time you went there.  90 day report in less than 5 minutes each time for me.  Really nice staff and new building.  

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Most foreigners you know? Either you do not know many or you just belong to that certain clic du cremé.

Why so few not go that route, and why not most foreigner qualify (that´s a fact that you seem to have missed) is:

1. The extra expense of chunking out 200K for the deal.

2. Need to have worked a minimum of 3 or 5 years (actually not remember) and payed taxes during that time.

3 All the other criterias

 

So, at the end. Not so strange as you might think it is.

After that you have all the people that compare 90 day reports with the loss of 200K baht. Actually there are more people in Thailand that do not see a 90 day report as something bad, than there are complainers. Guess that was another thing you never thought about.

I agree with you.    All that to escape doing a 90 day report 4 X a year (which takes 5 minutes and is FREE).  

 

 

I think for some people that want to work here long time the PR thing is good.  But for people who are retired, or not wanting to work here it's a waste of time and money.  

 

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

The requirement for knowledge of Thai was introduced in the early 2000s during the first Thaksin government which made things a lot harder in many other ways too.  Prior to that applicants were permitted to use interpreters in interviews which used to be only with individual Immigration officers.  The original Thai language test was a very simple multiple choice where the answers were obvious even to those who had hardly any Thai.  A few years later they upgraded this to a full blown panel interview with senior officers from Immigration and, I think, other agencies on the panel.  Sometimes some quite tricky questions can be asked, depending on the whims of the officers, that might require a good knowledge of intermediate Thai. I know a couple of people who fluffed the interview because they either couldn't understand the questions or understood but didn't know how to answer in Thai.  There has never been any requirement to read or write Thai.

 

 

True, I got PR about 24 years ago, the interviewing officer spoke perfect English, very pleasant guy not that old, not one word of Thai spoken through the whole interview, about 1 hour in total, he looked at every document and asked questions, at the end he wrote some comments in Thai then said he had recommended my application go to the final committee. 

[dbrenn]

1 hour ago, Caldera said:

That is a legitimate concern though, at least if it's true that nowadays they force you to actually renounce your prior citizenship, instead of merely asking you to declare that you intend to do that. Do you happen to know what the current situation is?

 

I'm not in a position to apply for either PR or citizenship, but if I were, I would never give up my current citizenship to become a Thai citizen. If I could have dual citizenship, I would consider it. I'd guess that's a sentiment shared by many if not most potential applicants (unless you come from a country that ranks even lower than Thailand).

As has been mentioned elsewhere, you have to sign an intention to renounce your former citizenship. However, once the Thai citizenship is granted, there is no mechanism that forces you to follow through. For most countries that allow dual citizenship, the Thai authorities cannot initiate proceedings to renounce such citizenship on your behalf. The upshot is that you keep both.

 

[dbrenn]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

When I was applying for citizenship I got even more derisory comments than when I applied for PR. People said things like, "Why would I want a third world passport and have to submit myself to the indignities of applying when I have a super duper US of A, British, Australian etc passport?"

 

I got similar derisory comments when I applied for citizenship, but there really is no downside that I've come across after over 10 years of being Thai, preceded by 10 years as a PR.

 

Both PR and Thai citizenship give enormous peace of mind - you can live in Thailand forever, and you never have to worry about visas again, exempt as you are from all the constant rule changes. 

 

I concluded that those mocking me, who couldn't be bothered applying despite being eligible, were perhaps envious that I had jumped through all the hoops, and had got something of value for having done so.

Edited July 9, 2019 by dbrenn

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

This process would have been considered too expensive and onerous by most when weighed up next to other visa and extension options pre-2019. 90 day reports by post have always been easy enough (at least until the TM30 came in to play), I would usually prepare two or three at a time to take care of the coming year.

 

PR certainly looks appealing now, but (like the Elite Visa prior to very recent times) it was never really necessary in the past. 

It was only 9k baht before Taksin raised it.

[Matzzon]

29 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

After your application is approved and you have PR there is no more need to show financial proof or salary for anything.

If working the only thing you to do is maintain a work permit and pay the taxes that are due based on your salary.

Yes, if working is what I continue to do. Let´s say I worked finished and want to apply for a PR for continued retirement. Is there any proof required then?

Regarding working and no financials, that is the same for working without a PR, but you still need to maintain the requested amount of salury to be given the work permit based on what country you originate from? Is that right?

 

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, davidst01 said:

Actually I thought it was 40k a month. perhaps ubonjoe can clarify?

It's 50k, 40k is for the easier citizenship.

[jayboy]

9 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

I got similar derisory comments when I applied for citizenship, but there really is no downside that I've come across after over 10 years of being Thai, preceded by 10 years as a PR.

 

Both PR and Thai citizenship give enormous peace of mind - you can live in Thailand forever, and you never have to worry about visas again, exempt as you are from all the constant rule changes. 

 

I concluded that those mocking me, who couldn't be bothered applying despite being eligible, were perhaps envious that I had jumped through all the hoops, and had got something of value for having done so.

There will always be those that mock or disparage, in many cases those who don't qualify themselves. I say congratulations and I endorse your conclusions.

 

Having said that I wouldn't apply for citizenship - purely personal and partly illogical on my part.Too attached to my own traditions and while I have affection and some respect for the paraphernalia of Thai culture, I will never be ready to become part of it.

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Now you need to submit a certified letter from your original citizenship's foreign ministry stating that you are cancelling it when you are awarded Thai citizenship.

I was told a couple of years ago by the British consul that this paper meant nothing.

[Michael Hare]

14 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, if working is what I continue to do. Let´s say I worked finished and want to apply for a PR for continued retirement. Is there any proof required then?

Regarding working and no financials, that is the same for working without a PR, but you still need to maintain the requested amount of salury to be given the work permit based on what country you originate from? Is that right?

 

That is not correct. Once you get PR it is forever as long as do this. Every five years get another stamp in the old red book for 800 baht at your local police station. Always get a reentry permit when leaving the country and come back before the reentry permit expires. 

 

You do not have to work once you have PR. It is for the rest of your life. If you are retired and do not want to travel outside of Thailand, the only thing you have to do is get the stamp in the red book every five years. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

4 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Getting Thai passport requires you to get rid of your original citizenship. Which means that you are only Thai. In the past people could get away with it by signing "intention" to get rid of it, but never really did it, keeping both passports. Now you need to submit a certified letter from your original citizenship's foreign ministry stating that you are cancelling it when you are awarded Thai citizenship.

There used to be a requirement to submit an affidavit certified by your embassy, stating your intention to renounce your original citizenship but it was never enforced and that requirement has now been removed from the list of documents needed for a citizenship application. Full list on this link:

 

Documents required to acquire Thai nationality

 

According to various people who have been through the process to acquire Thai citizenship (see link below) singing the national anthem is not usually required these days, unless you need the extra points (it's a points-based system).

 

There are lots of details on the thread dedicated to this topic:

 

Thai citizenship application thread

 

 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

There used to be a requirement to submit an affidavit certified by your embassy, stating your intention to renounce your original citizenship but it was never enforced and that requirement has now been removed from the list of documents needed for a citizenship application. Full list on this link:

The British embassy stopped doing this last May. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Neeranam

[dbrenn]

11 minutes ago, jayboy said:

There will always be those that mock or disparage, in many cases those who don't qualify themselves. I say congratulations and I endorse your conclusions.

 

Having said that I wouldn't apply for citizenship - purely personal and partly illogical on my part.Too attached to my own traditions and while I have affection and some respect for the paraphernalia of Thai culture, I will never be ready to become part of it.

It's a personal choice, but becoming a PR then a Thai didn't change the way I felt about myself at all - I still enjoy lukewarm beer, have a dark sense of humour, and will always consider myself an Englishman first and foremost. Nothing will ever change that.

 

[thaiowl]

I applied for PR in 2007 and got it in 2012. Gathering the initial paperwork was a bit of a chore, but after that, I just had to wait until I was accepted. My reason for applying for PR was that I thought it was becoming more and more for foreigners to stay here long term and when I retire (which I now have), I didn't want any hassle. Yes, I have to get a re-entry permit every year, but that's not too incovenient. I suppose I should apply for citizenship but I don't want to own land, so I won't bother.

[chatette]

Really, these days, PR is useful only for those who need it to qualify for citizenship, or to set up for retirement.

I found the process of applying for PR very annoying as I had to keep running around renewing my visa, reentry and work permit every few months through the process, could no longer use the convenient one-stop shop and timing was very tricky as I was traveling a lot for work.

Then, once I got it, renewals became more complicated and time consuming: instead of the one-stop shop, I had to go to one place to buy reentry permits for my passport (stupid notion if you have PR), another place to renew my work permit (no longer convenient one-stop shop), then there was the PR book, the household registration certificate, and the police book. Whew!

No Thais other than those at the offices that issued them knew what these things were, or what entitlements they gave me (certainly didn't get me Thai price for the Grand Palace, for example).

So let it lapse while living abroad since I'd otherwise have had to fly to Thailand to go to a counter to renew my reentry permits....

I had, however, applied for citizenship before I left,  got the interview delayed until I came back, and got my ID card and Thai passport a little more than a year after returning.

So much easier, faster, cheaper to become Thai and now face fewer bureaucratic hassles. 

I'd definitely recommend going for citizenship either directly, or by PR if you can't take the direct route, if and when you qualify.

There's really nothing to lose, unless your original citizenship doesn't allow two passports and you don't want to lose it. You can be asked to pledge to revoke, but Thailand can't make you do so.

Don't become that person who suddenly finds they no longer qualify to stay when they don't want to leave and have no where to go.
 

[yokat]

I may be wrong but here are some reasons I would see against PR:

- The price is not insignificant, it's money you actually spend, not have to hold somewhere

- You still need re-entry permits

- Re-entry permits are inconvenient to get for PR holders

- The process to obtain PR is looooooong

- PR can be lost if for some reason you spend more than a year out of Thailand

 

And more personally, I am not ruling out other countries.

[Michael Hare]

15 hours ago, yokat said:

I may be wrong but here are some reasons I would see against PR:

- The price is not insignificant, it's money you actually spend, not have to hold somewhere

- You still need re-entry permits

- Re-entry permits are inconvenient to get for PR holders

- The process to obtain PR is looooooong

- PR can be lost if for some reason you spend more than a year out of Thailand

 

And more personally, I am not ruling out other countries.

Getting PR many years ago has been one of the best things I have done in Thailand.

 

1 Once I got PR there were no more yearly trips to Immigration to get my annual visas to stay working in Thailand. Often it meant two trips if some paper work was forgotten or not signed properly.

 

2 No more 90 day reporting. In those days I had to drive a 70 km round trip from Ubon to Phibun Immigration to get this done. 

 

3 Once I got PR life became easier. My passport gets locked away in my safe and I use my ID card for everything in Thailand. Banking, traveling, checking into hotels etc. My passport only comes out when I travel overseas. I can even let my passport expire as my ID is for life.

 

4 Getting a reentry permit In Ubon is a simple straight forward process. I only do this when I have to travel. Sometimes two-three years go by with me having no need to travel overseas.

 

5 Getting the red book stamped at the police station once every five years for 800 baht is also a simple straight forward process.

 

6 I now can get a work permit for two years. My passport is not needed. 

[GarryP]

39 minutes ago, Hanuman2547 said:

That's good because, as I'm sure you are aware, the Thais will never consider you a Thai regardless if you show them your Thai passport and ID card.

Most of do not go through the application process so that ultimately we will be seen as Thai ? It matters not the least that Thais will think of me as a foreigner until the day I die. What does matter to me is that I now have the same rights as a Thai, be that owning land, traveling on a Thai passport (much more convenient in ASEAN), no more worries about visas and work permits, etc.  I own my current house and the land it is on. There was no need to buy it in someone else's name.  It makes life easier when dealing with officialdom too.