mosan Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 10 hours ago, fishtank said: No. You have an extension of stay based on retirement. You do not have any visa. You have 800,000 in a Thai bank or proof of income coming into the country. O-A Visa holders do not. Your statement is not exactly true. I am here on an O-A visa issued from the Thai Embassy in Washington, D.C., but I transfer in a minimum of 70K Baht each month because one has to live on something. Additionally, I realize that at some point I may need this income to apply for an extension of stay. When the time comes (2021), I intend to return to the US and apply for another O-A while visiting family and friends. Of course, if the landscape has changed by then, I'll do what's necessary to obtain another visa--even if that means having to purchase healthcare insurance--because we all need healthcare insurance anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, elviajero said: If granted a NEW Stay Permit is stamped in the passport granting that stay. It's not a new stay permit, it's a new stamp confirming your existing permission of stay has been extended. Edited July 9, 2019 by lkv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, mosan said: I'll do what's necessary to obtain another visa--even if that means having to purchase healthcare insurance--because we all need healthcare insurance anyway... Do we need health care insurance that does not pay out? Or is unreasonable in it's cost like for 40k outpatient? Who would use insurance to pay 40k outpatient? Nutty. It would be cost prohibitive. One would get a high deductible or pay all the outpatient costs themselves. Edited July 9, 2019 by marcusarelus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosan Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just now, marcusarelus said: Do we need health care insurance that does not pay out? Or is unreasonable in it's cost like for 40k outpatient? Who would use insurance to pay 40k outpatient? Nutty. It would be cost prohibitive. One would get a high deductible or pay all the outpatient costs themselves. This is not about what we need. It's about what will be acceptable to immigrations here, or what Thai Embassies and Consulates deem acceptable to obtain a new O-A visa if the requirement comes to pass... NOTE: The emphasis is on "if". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 56 minutes ago, lkv said: How am I wrong? Of course you have to submit an application requesting them to extend your existing permission of stay, and attach to that application the required documentation to satisfy them so that they keep extending the stay. You’re wrong because you said it’s not a new stay permit. It is. Previous applications are irrelevant and the new application is treated the same way if it’s the 1st or 10th. And you only get the permit if you’re in the country with the appropriate visa class. In the OP’s case “still on an O-A visa”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, lkv said: Yeah so? Which is why when you change passports they refer to the visa information stamp, the one that tells them what visa class you originally had on that visa that long expired (in the previous passport, that they can't see anymore). Now you’re repeating what I’ve been saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, lkv said: It's not a new stay permit, it's a new stamp confirming your existing permission of stay has been extended. Again, you’re wrong, it’s a new application and a new stamp permit. The new stamp is a new stay permit!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, elviajero said: You’re wrong because you said it’s not a new stay permit. It is. Previous applications are irrelevant and the new application is treated the same way if it’s the 1st or 10th. And you only get the permit if you’re in the country with the appropriate visa class. In the OP’s case “still on an O-A visa”. We can argue all day long. Immigration at the entry point issues a permission of stay based on a visa. Or no visa in the case of visa exempt. If one wants to spend a longer time in Thailand, that person contacts Local Immigration. Local Immigration will extend that permission of stay. If next year you feel like you want to stay longer in Thailand, you contact Immigration again to request that your stay gets extended further. The same stay. Local Immigration office in Thailand does not issue permissions of stay, they only extend existing ones. That's why they are called EXTENSIONS. If you want a fresh permission of stay, you go out of Thailand and come back in through an entry point. IO's at the border grant permissions of stay. Every time you request an extension, Immigration will ask you to do so by completing a document called an application form, and prove to them you meet their requirements with documentation. So to give you an example: when someone spends 3 years and 3 months in Thailand on extensions coming say from a single entry non O, what happens is: that person received a permission of stay of 90 days upon entry, and that permission was then extended for a year, then for another year, then for another year. It's that 90 day initial permission of stay that keeps getting extended. Edited July 9, 2019 by lkv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, elviajero said: A Thai visa used for entry remains valid until the person eventually leaves the country whether that's after the initial entry or a gazzilion extensions. Valid for what? No, it becomes irrelevant. I have never needed to show it since I got a new passport, nor ever will. Edited July 9, 2019 by jacko45k 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said: Do we need health care insurance that does not pay out? Or is unreasonable in it's cost like for 40k outpatient? Who would use insurance to pay 40k outpatient? Nutty. It would be cost prohibitive. One would get a high deductible or pay all the outpatient costs themselves. When you asked for a quote, did you specify what cover you wanted? All the discussion in this thread about whether you're on a Non O-A or an extension is irrelevant if the insurance agent doesn't understand the difference. Being on an extension of an old O-A visa is no different at all from being on an extension of any other kind of visa from the point of view of insurance, since mandatory coverage doesn't yet exist. However, it's certainly true that insurance companies hastily cobbled together new plans that would meet the proposed outpatient cover etc for new Non O-A applications following the MoPH announcement in May. The only reason I can see for the agent asking the question is to set you up with one of these plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 38 minutes ago, mosan said: This is not about what we need. It's about what will be acceptable to immigrations here, or what Thai Embassies and Consulates deem acceptable to obtain a new O-A visa if the requirement comes to pass... NOTE: The emphasis is on "if". You wrote, "if the landscape has changed by then, I'll do what's necessary to obtain another visa--even if that means having to purchase healthcare insurance--because we all need healthcare insurance anyway..." I agree with you but chances are we will not need or use the health insurance we will be forced to buy - was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, lkv said: Local Immigration office in Thailand does not issue permissions of stay, they only extend existing ones. Rubbish. The stay permit (stamp) in the passport is giving permission to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, elviajero said: Rubbish. The stay permit (stamp) in the passport is giving permission to stay. Yes it does, but it's not a new one. Read my last comment again, I have reedited until the last minute. Border IO's grant permissions of stay, local Immigration extends them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, jacko45k said: 3 hours ago, elviajero said: A Thai visa used for entry remains valid until the person eventually leaves the country whether that's after the initial entry or a gazzilion extensions. Valid for what? No, it becomes irrelevant. I have never needed to show it since I got a new passport, nor ever will. I should have written relevant. Because details of your entry visa are stamped in your new passport. If you wanted to change the reason for your extension they would/could/should check the visa class used to originally enter. If you were switching from retirement to work they would/could/should send you out of the country for a new B visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, lkv said: Yes it does, but it's not a new one. Mite a separate new stay permit for the new permission to stay granted by the local office. 1 minute ago, lkv said: Read my last comment again, I have reedited until the last minute. Border IO's grant permissions of stay, local Immigration extends them. Local IO’s do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, elviajero said: Local IO’s do both. Nope, local Immigration does not issue a permission of stay of 12 months. A single entry non O visa allows the IO at the border to give you ONE permission of stay of 90 days. Because it's SINGLE The IO at the local Immigration cannot give you a new permission of stay, since you have already used your visa. It was single, remember? Also, if it was multiple, in country IO's are not authorised to issue you a new permission of stay. If it was that way, a multi non O holder would not have to exit Thailand to get a fresh 90 day permission of stay. He'd just go to local Immigration and say, just chop chop my passport with a new permission of stay of 90 days. They can't do that. What they can do is either extend his 90 day permission of stay for 60 days, for purpose of visiting wife, basically transforming his 90 day stay into a 150 day stay, or extend for 12 months. Etc. Keyword: extend Is it more clear? Edited July 9, 2019 by lkv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJack54 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Another TVF thread made useless by bickering. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just now, DrJack54 said: Another TVF thread made useless by bickering. Look on the bright side I only got one pedantic email wanting to discuss the fact that there was no retirement visa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosan Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 26 minutes ago, marcusarelus said: You wrote, "if the landscape has changed by then, I'll do what's necessary to obtain another visa--even if that means having to purchase healthcare insurance--because we all need healthcare insurance anyway..." I agree with you but chances are we will not need or use the health insurance we will be forced to buy - was my point. No one can force you to buy anything...you have a choice. I may choose not to play along. Me and my lady have discussed the situation (she has American citizenship)--she says "we're not going there", we'll just go live in the US and visit here. I'm flexible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, lkv said: Nope, local Immigration does not issue a permission of stay of 12 months. Okay, time to end discussion. If you believe the above there’s no point carrying on! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, mosan said: No one can force you to buy anything...you have a choice. I may choose not to play along. Me and my lady have discussed the situation (she has American citizenship)--she says "we're not going there", we'll just go live in the US and visit here. I'm flexible... I have to stay in the country to take care of my dog and wife both of whom don't want to go to America. So I'll be forced to buy insurance and keep 800k in the bank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamyai3 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, marcusarelus said: So I'll be forced to buy insurance Forced by who? You're on extensions of stay, there's no mandatory insurance proposed for extensions at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishtank Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 2 hours ago, mosan said: Your statement is not exactly true. I am here on an O-A visa issued from the Thai Embassy in Washington, D.C., but I transfer in a minimum of 70K Baht each month because one has to live on something. Additionally, I realize that at some point I may need this income to apply for an extension of stay. When the time comes (2021), I intend to return to the US and apply for another O-A while visiting family and friends. Of course, if the landscape has changed by then, I'll do what's necessary to obtain another visa--even if that means having to purchase healthcare insurance--because we all need healthcare insurance anyway... You choose to do that. It is not a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosan Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, fishtank said: You choose to do that. It is not a requirement. Just like other choose to deposit 800k or 400k or choose to transfer in 65k or 40k per month...I still had to show the money to the Embassy to get the visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 25 minutes ago, lamyai3 said: Forced by who? You're on extensions of stay, there's no mandatory insurance proposed for extensions at this time. I'll have to buy it soon before I reach the age where it is not available. In other words I have to plan ahead to accommodate what I think they may do in the future. I think VA will cover me but I'll be hard pressed to explain that to a Thai Immigration official. If that is who makes the determination what insurance is adequate and meets their rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, marcusarelus said: In other words I have to plan ahead to accommodate what I think they may do in the future. On balance of probabilities, any insurance that will be attached to a Thai long stay Visa will be local. Never mind what you read in the newspapers, that "we need to look at ways to accept foreign insurance". What they say now and what they end up doing is not the same. It's highly likely only local insurance will be accepted, same as for non O-X, listed on https://longstay.tgia.org Assuming otherwise is taking a gamble. Out of the listed ones, some insure up to 75, one insures 76-80 at a premium of about 91K baht, and there is one that insures up to 100 yrs old (81-85-90-95-100), at premiums of 145K-250K baht. Edited July 9, 2019 by lkv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 8 hours ago, lkv said: On balance of probabilities, any insurance that will be attached to a Thai long stay Visa will be local. Never mind what you read in the newspapers, that "we need to look at ways to accept foreign insurance". What they say now and what they end up doing is not the same. It's highly likely only local insurance will be accepted, same as for non O-X, listed on https://longstay.tgia.org Assuming otherwise is taking a gamble. Out of the listed ones, some insure up to 75, one insures 76-80 at a premium of about 91K baht, and there is one that insures up to 100 yrs old (81-85-90-95-100), at premiums of 145K-250K baht. So, who is going to check the insurance to see if it complies with the maybe new regulations? Immigration, Insurance reps or hospitals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said: So, who is going to check the insurance to see if it complies with the maybe new regulations? Immigration, Insurance reps or hospitals? It's Thai insurance, already approved by Immigration. There are 5 providers in that link, all Thai and all Immigration approved. This is why I am saying, if you sign up today for any insurance of your own choice (say foreign), they would likely not accept it in the future should it become a requirement for any type of visa, such as Non O-A. They would likely only accept the same insurance providers that they are currently accepting for the non O-X. And the list is here: https://longstay.tgia.org/ Edited July 10, 2019 by lkv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishtank Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, lkv said: It's Thai insurance, already approved by Immigration. There are 5 providers in that link, all Thai and all Immigration approved. This is why I am saying, if you sign up today for any insurance of your own choice, they would likely not accept it in the future should it become a requirement for any type of visa, such as Non O-A. They would likely only accept the same insurance providers that they are currently accepting for the non O-X. And the list is here: https://longstay.tgia.org/ They will also accept any other insurance providing it covers the minimum requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Just now, fishtank said: They will also accept any other insurance providing it covers the minimum requirements. Says who? They on the media? For what type of visa and when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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