Is a TM 30 still a requirement if you have a retirement visa

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

If you have / get PR your name goes in the typical dark blue Tabien Baan book. 

If you have a 12 month 'O' Visa then you can get your name put in the Blue Book. //

Not the first time that I read that, but AFAIK it's false. 

Non-O visa or Retirement Extension change nothing to the fact that the Blue Book registers Thai people only. (and maybe PR or alike?)

[from the home of CC]

5 hours ago, wgdanson said:

My Amphur in Bang Rakam says we must be married to get a yellow book/pink id card.

Can a falang go in a blue book?

However, never done a TM30 in six years here until this year when I was the one who asked about it.

Same boat as me, never been asked and was thinking of bringing it up, when you did were you fined?

[Enzian]

5 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

did you certify yours at the Thai Embassy in your country?

No, that didn't come up because I got my long stay visa here in Thailand by the method of converting a 3 month tourist visa. Also want to say that tho the office woman did not ask to see my birth certificate (which is in the US anyway), she had us fill out a complex form with information including both my parents full names and then worked with my girlfriend to to translate them into Thai script and put them on the form. We did it right there at her desk, and she just took my word for what the names were. So I can see why they might want to see an actual birth certificate; as I say, we were lucky. I can also see why some offices might want the passport certified, tho any Thai government officer ought to be able to tell if a particular person's US passport is real or fake. Our officer just accepted it.

[murraynz]

i have never filed a TM30  ...i live in my own  condo at cosy beach,near pattaya, but i leave thailand just before every 90 days is due..for about a week in neighbouring countries...

i usually, stay a night or two at nana hotel, before i leave, or after my return...

i assume that they file a tm30 for me... so that i have no further need, to file one..????

 

i use this 'system', because i cant stand all the grovelling to immigration and their changing rules and attitudes...i also use an agent to renew my OA EXTENSION OF stay.

my 800,000 thb remains, untouched in bank account, so everything is in order..

i never have much problem at airport immigrations, but often get queried about minor things---ive NEVER  been queried about TM30... am i covered ????

[GroveHillWanderer]

15 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Yes it does. I'll provide a link if the mods allow it.

A link, and the actual wording of Section 38 has already been posted. It says:

 

Quote

Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a  fine not exceeding 2,000 Baht.

So there is no fixed amount - according to that wording it could be anything from 1 - 2,000 Baht.

Edited July 22, 2019 by GroveHillWanderer

[Martyp]

30 minutes ago, murraynz said:

i have never filed a TM30  ...i live in my own  condo at cosy beach,near pattaya, but i leave thailand just before every 90 days is due..for about a week in neighbouring countries...

i usually, stay a night or two at nana hotel, before i leave, or after my return...

i assume that they file a tm30 for me... so that i have no further need, to file one..????

 

i use this 'system', because i cant stand all the grovelling to immigration and their changing rules and attitudes...i also use an agent to renew my OA EXTENSION OF stay.

my 800,000 thb remains, untouched in bank account, so everything is in order..

i never have much problem at airport immigrations, but often get queried about minor things---ive NEVER  been queried about TM30... am i covered ????

I hope you enjoy traveling. That sounds like a lot of expense and effort to avoid a 90 day report. 90 day reports are free and about the simplest thing you can do in an IO office. I would think it would be particularly quick in Pattaya.

 

In any case you are supposed to do one for your condo. My landlord did it and paid the fine. I live in BKK and plan to file them only when I return from International travel which I only do 1-2x per year. 

 

It will become an issue when you apply for a 1 year extension. 

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

A link, and the actual wording of Section 38 has already been posted. It says:

Actually it is section 77 that states what the fine is.

"Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not
exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht
to 10,000 Baht."

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Actually it is section 77 that states what the fine is.

"Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not
exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht
to 10,000 Baht."

So basically 2,000 baht is just the additional cost of living in Thailand and not bothering to lodge?

[GroveHillWanderer]

46 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

So basically 2,000 baht is just the additional cost of living in Thailand and not bothering to lodge?

Well no, 2,000 baht is basically the maximum that the fine could  be. In many cases, as frequently reported here, it can be less than that. Then (and this reflects my experience) there are areas where the TM-30 requirement is not enforced, so it costs nothing at all. 

[robertson468]

On 7/21/2019 at 2:03 PM, jackdd said:

Yes, your girlfriend has to report you

Unless she has you entered on the Tabian Baan, which does not require TM 30 submission, as I understand it.

[IvorBiggun2]

6 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Unless she has you entered on the Tabian Baan, which does not require TM 30 submission, as I understand it.

I'm on the Blue and Yellow book but my missus still got done 500 Baht after 13+ years of me living here. Someone needs to get on this thread and publish the correct process as there appears to be too much confusion and guessing.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2019 at 2:18 PM, Enzian said:

I'm in same situation, live in my girlfriend's condo, on a "retirement visa", and she nor I have ever filed a TM30 that I know of. But we recently went to the amphur, got me put in her blue book, got a yellow book for me, and to boot, without us asking, they fixed me up with a Thai ID "pink card". I've read reports that all this makes me exempt from filling the TM30, and my attitude is that they can bite me; a 2000 baht fine is next to nothing, but if and when that happens then I'll go ahead and file one of the damn things. Of course I might have to when we go to Chang Wattana to apply for my next extension later this year.

I already have a yellow book and a pink card. So I can get the wife to take me to the Amphur and get my name put in her blue book?

Something tells me that this being Thailand, it won't be as simple as that.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2019 at 2:34 PM, IvorBiggun2 said:

May be so, but what about the financial penalty for failing to submit one. Is there a grading as to how much they can charge? ie minimum to maximum. After 13 years here they done my wife 500 Baht for failing to fill out a TM30. Cash, no receipt. I'd rather she'd have paid the max with receipt, which I believe to be 2,000 Baht, than to see money go into their tea fund jar. 

 

I have the Yellow Book, Pink ID card, driving license etc but it cut no ice.  

As UbonJoe says every office has different policies, but I think we all know that these policies can change anytime even within the same office and officer, which means you can never be sure when they are going to sting you for money.

[jackdd]

32 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Unless she has you entered on the Tabian Baan, which does not require TM 30 submission, as I understand it.

According to law she still has to report you.

Might of course be that some immigration office does not require it.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2019 at 3:01 PM, tgeezer said:

I think that they could piss a lot of people off , Thais pride themselves on the word Thai meaning free.  I am in the same situation and there is no intention of reporting because the fact that Immigration refuse to put 2+2 together and make four is laughable. 

The Immigration Act does not have to be interpreted in this way at all, it could be interpreted as the authorities wanting to know where you are. The landing card tells them where you are staying.  The law says if you move from there you must report it. Your extension application tells them that ‘in spades’ especially if you provide photos sketches etc. Your 90 day report tells them that! A quick glance at the computer tells them all they need to know if they care to look. 

 

 

 

"A quick glance at the computer tells them all they need to know if they care to look."

 

Do you not mean a "quick" glance looking through their mountains of paperwork? 

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2019 at 3:06 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

But that won't matter much if the wife or GF doesn't do it, even though required, because SHE doesn't have to go and apply for anything at Immigration.

 

So, if the wife or GF doesn't do it and the local Immigration office requires it, it's the farang applicant they'll be fining the next time he goes to apply for an annual extension

Exactly.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2019 at 2:51 PM, IvorBiggun2 said:

Yes. The number you get from the Blue Book is the number used in your government hospital ID card.

Are you sure that you still can get the government hospital ID card? This was at a time when you paid the same for treatment at your local government hospital as the local Thai people, but it was stopped some time ago.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2019 at 7:42 PM, IvorBiggun2 said:

No problem. Wish there more of me to make the stand instead of cowering in front of the immigration officers and boosting their ego's.

Count me in there, I have made a stand against immigration officers on two occasions, and the boss backed me up both times.

If you are 100% sure that you are right against anyone, then make your stand, if you are the cowering type, you may as well just go home to your house and stay there.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/21/2019 at 7:56 PM, luckyluke said:

He may then be agree with 20ThB with no official documents, or maybe the maximum at the police station. 

Life is always full of surprises in Thailand. 

Change that to, nothing in Thailand will surprise you.????

[IvorBiggun2]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

As UbonJoe says every office has different policies, but I think we all know that these policies can change anytime even within the same office and officer, which means you can never be sure when they are going to sting you for money.

Whilst I agree some immigration offices interpret the rules differently but when it comes down to financial penalties then that doesn't apply. Each office has it's immigration rule book. Usually located in the head honchoes office and the fines are clearly defined it that. 

Even Embassy web sites tell you there is a minimum fine up to a maximum fine based on days of default. But for some reason failure to report a TM 30 isn't based like that but is open to immigration officers interpretation. I find that to be utter tosh.

 

Quote

It is illegal to overstay your visa as it is a violation of immigration rules. Needless to say, you are also breaking Thai law. Overstaying is sanctioned under Thai immigration procedures. Even if you overstay for just one day, legal actions could be taken up against your person. Usually though when you overstay for one day, it doesn’t carry a fine with it. However, if you overstay for several days, you will be fined 500 baht per day of overstay. So if your stay expired on the 15th of March and you only reported to the immigration by the 20th, your fine will be for 5 days of overstay or 2,500 baht.

I know the above quote isn't anything to do with the TM 30 but the rules of financial penalties must be the same. The way of working out the fine remains the same for all infringements. Based on the daily non compliance up to the maximum written down.

Edited July 23, 2019 by IvorBiggun2

[IvorBiggun2]

Would someone please be so kind as to read this link and see if they can come up with any written penalty related to the TM 30.       http://www.samutprakanimmigration.go.th/downloads/Immigration_Act.pdf

 

I have looked and can only come up with this.

 

Quote

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following : 1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned. 2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place. 3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival. 4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival.

As I read it, if you fail to stay at the address given to them on entering the Kingdom you must THEN do a TM30 within 24 hours of arrival at the local immigration office. Basically there is NO need for a TM30. ????

Edited July 23, 2019 by IvorBiggun2

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Would someone please be so kind as to read this link and see if they can come up with any written penalty related to the TM 30.

Section 38 is for the TM30 form.

"Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not
exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht
to 10,000 Baht."

 

Forget section 37 for other than reporting a change of address and 90 day reporting.

Section 76 has the penalty for section 37.

Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be
punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for
each day which passes until the law is complied with.

[Thomas J]

It is my understanding that whoever you are domiciled with a hotel, condo rental, and your girlfriend or wife if staying with one of them must report you.  The only exception that I believe is true is if you own your own condo then the TM30 is not required. 

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

The only exception that I believe is true is if you own your own condo then the TM30 is not required. 

It still required in that case. There are not exceptions for those on a temporary permit stay.

[Thingamabob]

No, never been asked for TM30 or yellow book for retirement extension at CW either this year or in 30 plus preceding years.

[robertson468]

4 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I'm on the Blue and Yellow book but my missus still got done 500 Baht after 13+ years of me living here. Someone needs to get on this thread and publish the correct process as there appears to be too much confusion and guessing.

This was not guessing, but as many say, depends on the IO at the time and it's totally pointless argueing with them or even producing the rules to them as a copy of their rules.

[RocketDog]

On 7/21/2019 at 3:06 PM, ThaiBunny said:

Go on, stamp your foot as well

Point taken, but  venting on the forum is loads better than doing it at the IO. The primal scream, but done in the shower.????

 

I do all my paperwork at the same IO, even the 90 day beating. I want them to recognize my face, but not ever connect me with any negative memories.

 

The truth is that I also resent all the malarkey that immigration persecutes us with, but value the option of living here too much to jeopardize it.

 

It's all about the cost/benefit ratio.

[IvorBiggun2]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office
located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not
exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht
to 10,000 Baht."

I see that as if the alien that has notified an abode when first entering the kingdom doesn't conform to that notification then a TM 30 has to be submitted to the nearest IO conforming the aliens address. Different people different strokes.

[IvorBiggun2]

2 hours ago, robertson468 said:

it's totally pointless argueing with them

No it isn't. Believe me. If only more stuck up for themselves we wouldn't be shafted as much.

Edited July 23, 2019 by IvorBiggun2

[IvorBiggun2]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Section 38 is for the TM30 form.

Open to interpretation. Once you've notified them, upon entry into the kingdom, of your abode, it's job done. But if that doesn't come to materialize then your landlord has 24 hours to notify immigration of your new abode. My interpretation. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by IvorBiggun2