Are big bikes worth it?

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, DJ54 said:

In the NE countryside I see underage children riding motorcycles all time.

Not only in the countryside - go to Nakhon Ratchasima city centre at school closing time. You will see dozens of schoolkids riding 3 up with no helmets on and the police??? Probably eating.

[Mukdahanman]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Honda Forza 300. comfortable to ride over long distances, reliable and economical.

Exactly what I was thinking- a little pricey though.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Mukdahanman said:

Exactly what I was thinking- a little pricey though.

Maybe they are now, but mine is over four years old and cost me new around 160.000Bt.

[Peasandmash]

NO!! They are not worth it!!! Go buy a Honda wave or one of those Snoopy scooters with a matching color helmet and ride with pride.... (btw your lgbtqlmnop membership dues are late)

Edited August 2, 2019 by Peasandmash

[AloisAmrein]

To ride a big bike in Thailand is very near to suicide, due to low driving skills of Thais and the chaotic beheavior on the road. I drive big bikes in Europe since 48 years and I make about 30'000 km per year. But in Thailand i drive just a small scooter for shopping or sightseeing.

[Issannative]

Am still confused by the op big bike are they worth it. Its a very personal question as in tampons are they worth it. V personal and subjective

Sent from my LDN-LX2 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Aj Mick]

On 8/2/2019 at 5:43 AM, Worldplus said:

I Have a Kwasaki Z800..  I have had it for 6 years..  I ride it alot round Pattaya...  Only time I have dropped it was doing a u turn at walking pace and went down a <deleted> pothole..  Road conditions here are very bad.. 

 

Big bikes are much better than riding a 110CC bike.. They can stop quicker and get out of trouble quicker..

 

Its down to these idiots riding them at high speed and usually without a skid lid..  

 

I have ridden big bikes since I was 17..  Much prefer them than anything else..

Utter tosh....

 

I have ridden small bikes (off road) since I was about 11 years old, as well as big and small bikes on the road since I got licenced a week after my 15th birthday, more than 50 years ago, and have ridden in over 500,000 km a dozen countries since then. More than 40 years since I last had an accident or ticket.....

 

Over 200,000 km around the south of Thailand on a 1997 Honda Dream over the last 16 years (I picked it up for 15,000 baht with 80,000 km on the clock). The only accident it has been involved in was when I watched a lady in a Mercedes Benz back into it while I was 10 metres away, using an ATM machine.

 

How much quicker can a big bike stop than a small bike.... and how much more controllable under braking is a 220 kg behemoth than a sub 110 kg scoot? You have physics working against you there. In real world situations there would not be much in it. It would take a rider with quite a bit of experience to significantly out-perform the average Saowanee or Somchai on a scoot.

 

And again in real world traffic, how much quicker can the power of big bike get a rider out of trouble? (not much, I suggest) Or get into big trouble? (Rather rapidly).

 

Yes, it can be a buzz to have all that power at your crotch on a big bike, but for town and around in the real world a small bike is way more practical..... and statistics suggest that they are less dangerous.

 

Yes, idiots that ride without a helmet put themselves at risk of serious head injury or death in an accident situation, but in my observation it is not just scoot riders who ride sans skid lid. I see plenty of bare headed big bike riders, some travelling at high speed. It is also not uncommon to see Thai policemen setting an example by riding wearing only their regular police cap.

[scubascuba3]

i definitely prefer my Honda Click vs my bigger bikes i had in the UK. The Click is just so practical and no trouble

[GuyT]

What a load of balls.... 

My first " big bike" as they call it was back in 1975 a Kawasaki 900. 

At the beginning of every season I always did a 2 day safety training to freshen up. I still own R1 Yamaha at the ripe old age of 62. I have never had an accident or dropped a bike.  Evert season just before the tyres started to get a bit tired I always spent an afternoon at the Nürburgring race cource putting the bike through its paces

 

It is all about experience perception and common sense. Passing a bike test doesent mean you can ride it

[Airbagwill]

Yet again, this is not just about the riders, it is about the road environment in Thailand. 

 

We know that worldwide big bikes are more dangerous than almost any other form of road transport, but this is deemed acceptable if the casualties are kept within reasonable levels.

 

Most riders have come off a bike at some time and this is very common indeed the problem in Thailand is what happens if and when you come off ......... with poor road design and dangerous obstacles on the side of the road, virtually no emergency services, you chances of survival or recover are considerably less than in say the EU.

Furthermore the WHY is not as obvious as some would suggest,  even new roads are built with scant regard to motorcyclists - longitudinal ridges between sectiondof asphalt are left un-lveled and potholes appear will-nilli due to due road foundations.

other motorist and the roads themselves have no code for motorcycles anywhere - the general attitude is that 2-wheelers should stay in the gutter and keep out of the way - 4-wheeled vehicles pass by leaving space that would get them arrested in other countries. This is compounded when bigger bikes are used as they take up the same road space and 4-wheeled transport and require to obey exactly the same road behaviours. They are also as fast as or faster than most of the 4-wheeled traffic. This generates a different set of circumstances in itself.

 

I believe until about 115 yers ago it was not permitted to own or eve build a motorcycle over 150cc in Thailand. Presumably to attract companies like Ducati and Triumph (Who didn't build complete machines at first), the law has been modifies which hs also opened up the home market. But is would seem that the authorities in typical style have not thought through the consequences of a big bike boom - training, laws, roads etc have not been set up to cope..........coupld this to the dreadfully designers and built roads in Thailand and you have a perfect storm.

[RocketDog]

On 8/2/2019 at 4:58 AM, bkk6060 said:

Extremely naive and makes no sense.

Where are they suppose to be?

Posted at every accident scene before it happens?

Haven't you seen the permanent signs along some roads proclaiming "Accident Ahead"?

 

I guess from one perspective such signs should be posted every kilometer or so on every road in Thailand because it is simply a matter of time.

 

Oh, I guess they should be posted on every sidewalk as well.

 

Wait, I guess they should be posted..........

 

Sh*t.

 

Nevermind, there's not enough sheet metal in the country to make that many signs.

[mogandave]

My favorite sign it the “picket-fence ahead”

[Isaanbiker]

On 8/2/2019 at 1:40 PM, DoktorC said:

Apples and oranges... if you jump out of a plane and your parachute fails to open - that's your problem.  Not likely to affect anyone else.   If you go free climbing and slip - again your problem.  Not likely you will hit someone else on your way down.

 

However, if you are on the highway and do your macho acceleration (at 150km/h you are exceeding allowable speed and not a safe driver) and something goes south there's a good possibility that someone else (besides your sorry self) will be involved in your mistake.  You want to experience that acceleration thrill, go to a drag strip or race track.

 

And yes, the same can be seen for big cars.

 

Stay off the public streets, they are not intended for your thrill seeking.

 

 

I'm riding bigger bikes now for more than 40 years and I'd have thought that I'm an experienced rider.

 

I've never brought others in danger, but I always get cut off by others, people do red lights and don't give a flying kangaroo.

 

When ever I make a U-turn, I check for traffic from both sides and i guess I'm pretty good at understanding how fast somebody approaches. 

 

 Unfortunately, do many Thai not even look for any traffic and just turn out when they want to. As already mentioned, I do slow down at U-turns, but there are so many other places where motorists are not allowed to make a turn, but they do.

 

I'm not the one who brings others in danger, it's always inexperienced Thai drivers. Why do they even sell bikes with a lot of power, to ride 90 km/h? I'm certain that a good rider will not have problems if the Thai people would be a bit more defensive drivers.

 

 I've never seen foreigners who drive 90 on highways so far. It's not my "sorry self", it's just the lack of driving experience that makes riding any vehicles to a lottery in the Land of Cries.

 

Were you never speeding before? Please be honest. 

 

     

[Airbagwill]

14 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

Apples and oranges... if you jump out of a plane and your parachute fails to open - that's your problem.  Not likely to affect anyone else.   If you go free climbing and slip - again your problem.

extremely blinkered perspective - accidents of any kind don't just affect people involved, they affect family and friends, lost income earners, higher insurance premiums, the ramifications are endless.

[Airbagwill]

21 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

I'm riding bigger bikes now for more than 40 years and I'd have thought that I'm an experienced rider.

 

I've never brought others in danger, but I always get cut off by others, people do red lights and don't give a flying kangaroo.

 

When ever I make a U-turn, I check for traffic from both sides and i guess I'm pretty good at understanding how fast somebody approaches. 

 

 Unfortunately, do many Thai not even look for any traffic and just turn out when they want to. As already mentioned, I do slow down at U-turns, but there are so many other places where motorists are not allowed to make a turn, but they do.

 

I'm not the one who brings others in danger, it's always inexperienced Thai drivers. Why do they even sell bikes with a lot of power, to ride 90 km/h? I'm certain that a good rider will not have problems if the Thai people would be a bit more defensive drivers.

 

 I've never seen foreigners who drive 90 on highways so far. It's not my "sorry self", it's just the lack of driving experience that makes riding any vehicles to a lottery in the Land of Cries.

 

Were you never speeding before? Please be honest. 

 

     

Amazing how so many expats drivers consider themselves so superior to Thai rad users or any there drivers for that matter,

 

“The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status, or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we all believe that we are above-average drivers.” – D. Barry, Pulitzer prizewinner & columnist

Edited August 3, 2019 by Airbagwill

[Isaanbiker]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Yet again, this is not just about the riders, it is about the road environment in Thailand. 

 

We know that worldwide big bikes are more dangerous than almost any other form of road transport, but this is deemed acceptable if the casualties are kept within reasonable levels.

 

Most riders have come off a bike at some time and this is very common indeed the problem in Thailand is what happens if and when you come off ......... with poor road design and dangerous obstacles on the side of the road, virtually no emergency services, you chances of survival or recover are considerably less than in say the EU.

Furthermore the WHY is not as obvious as some would suggest,  even new roads are built with scant regard to motorcyclists - longitudinal ridges between sectiondof asphalt are left un-lveled and potholes appear will-nilli due to due road foundations.

other motorist and the roads themselves have no code for motorcycles anywhere - the general attitude is that 2-wheelers should stay in the gutter and keep out of the way - 4-wheeled vehicles pass by leaving space that would get them arrested in other countries. This is compounded when bigger bikes are used as they take up the same road space and 4-wheeled transport and require to obey exactly the same road behaviours. They are also as fast as or faster than most of the 4-wheeled traffic. This generates a different set of circumstances in itself.

 

I believe until about 115 yers ago it was not permitted to own or eve build a motorcycle over 150cc in Thailand. Presumably to attract companies like Ducati and Triumph (Who didn't build complete machines at first), the law has been modifies which hs also opened up the home market. But is would seem that the authorities in typical style have not thought through the consequences of a big bike boom - training, laws, roads etc have not been set up to cope..........coupld this to the dreadfully designers and built roads in Thailand and you have a perfect storm.

115 years ago, you could travel from Bangkok to Sisaket on an elephants back. I assume that you're talking about Japan where big bikes were produced but not sold in their own country.

 

  From your post: "{ with poor road design and dangerous obstacles on the side of the road, virtually no emergency services, you chances of survival or recover are considerably less than in say the EU."

 

   I'm afraid that having a serious injury here on a weekend, or in the evening will be your death sentence. At least at government hospitals in the northeast, there are never emergency operations.

 

  People with inner bleeding just die at the hospital. 

 

_{^{Never, but NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the drivers around you!}}

 

 

 

  

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, Aj Mick said:

How much quicker can a big bike stop than a small bike.... and how much more controllable under braking is a 220 kg behemoth than a sub 110 kg scoot? You have physics working against you there. In real world situations there would not be much in it. It would take a rider with quite a bit of experience to significantly out-perform the average Saowanee or Somchai on a scoot.

You start your post off "Utter Tosh" but that sums up what you have written. If you seriously believe that the braking capability of a small bike can even hold a candle to that of a modern big bike, you must have ridden some seriously crappy big bikes. I'd be willing to prove my point but you'd need to put up 50,000 for it to be worth my while.

 

I own both a 650 and a 110 by the way.

Edited August 3, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Aj Mick]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

You start your post off "Utter Tosh" but that sums up what you have written. If you seriously believe that the braking capability of a small bike can even hold a candle to that of a modern big bike, you must have ridden some seriously crappy big bikes. I'd be willing to prove my point but you'd need to put up 50,000 for it to be worth my while.

 

I own both a 650 and a 110 by the way.

Wow.... big braggart talk here, and willing to stake enough ante to ensure no contest.

 

I wasn't talking raw stopping figures under test conditions.... I was referring to controllable braking in the real world. 

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

You start your post off "Utter Tosh" but that sums up what you have written. If you seriously believe that the braking capability of a small bike can even hold a candle to that of a modern big bike, you must have ridden some seriously crappy big bikes. I'd be willing to prove my point but you'd need to put up 50,000 for it to be worth my while.

 

I own both a 650 and a 110 by the way.

You seem seriously underinforned about motorcycle braking distances...be careful or you'll have lose you 50k without even the need to start up a motorcycle.

[tlandtday]

A big bike is a waste of time here given the unpredictable road conditions, drivers and weather as well as heavy traffic.  I had a 1500 overseas and don't miss it here as I am content on the scooter including highways where I find most times the traffic speed is around 70-80 kmph. and easily navigated with a good scooter.

[Airbagwill]

11 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

115 years ago, you could travel from Bangkok to Sisaket on an elephants back. I assume that you're talking about Japan where big bikes were produced but not sold in their own country.

 

  From your post: "{ with poor road design and dangerous obstacles on the side of the road, virtually no emergency services, you chances of survival or recover are considerably less than in say the EU."

 

   I'm afraid that having a serious injury here on a weekend, or in the evening will be your death sentence. At least at government hospitals in the northeast, there are never emergency operations.

 

  People with inner bleeding just die at the hospital. 

 

_{^{Never, but NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the drivers around you!}}

 

 

 

  

Typo...it was 11 years ago, 2008 that complete big bikes were manufactured in Thailand.

A 60% duty applies on imports 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Airbagwill

[KhaoYai]

10 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

You seem seriously underinforned about motorcycle braking distances...be careful or you'll have lose you 50k without even the need to start up a motorcycle.

Yeah, yeah, you're right, I'm 'seriously underinformed' - I've only been riding bikes of all sizes for over 50 years and still ride now - and no, I don't potter about. I guess that fact that I raced in both 125 and 250 classes in my teens means nothing either? I guess I've a lot to learn.................................NOT.

 

The facts are that 99% of big bikes are more stable under general and braking conditions. The brake performance/weight ratio of big bikes is far higher than that of the scooters that AJ Mick refers to.  I am also not, as he seems to think, refering to:

12 hours ago, Aj Mick said:

raw stopping figures under test conditions

The OP is considering the safety of big bikes and accident statistics have been presented. In an accident situation it is most likely that heavy braking will take place. I would rather not have an accident at all but I know which type of bike I'd rather be on in such circumstances.

 

It is a fact that the likelihood of death in an accident is higher on a big bike = obviously, because of the speeds they are capable of but as I and many others have stated many times, that is down to training, age and law enforcement. It is not down to the bike.

 

I can tell you quite confidently that I am far happier and safer travelling at similar speeds to car/truck traffic in the main carriageway rather than wobbling about on a scooter in the motorbike lane.

 

Its is also a fact that most modern big bikes have ABS - further improving their braking performance.

 

Even 1 death is 1 too many but I would point out that according to the OP, the death rate amongst big bikers seems to be mirroring the rise in sales which is not surprising.

 

(The figures state that deaths were up 34% last year. Sales are quoted as currently running at 165,000 (this year) and expected to be 200,000 by the end of the year. However, to get an accurate comparison it would be necessary to wait until the end of the year and to compare the total with last year's total sales. Sales may currently be 165K but that could be down 10%, up 50% or any figure you care to guess at.)

Edited August 3, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Mangkhut]

So in 2018 8266 death happend with bikes less than 150 cc and 224 with socalled big bikes - and then the author of the article asks if we really need big bikes?

 

Eh - do we really need small bikes who caused 8266 deaths in 2018? 

 

Excuse me - but questioning something that causes a very small fraction of deaths and not the absolute biggest cause of traffic deaths in Thailand seem pretty absurd not to say ignorant to me...

[Number 6]

When they write the obit:

 

Died on a Honda Dream 110cc

 

Died on a Maximo Power Pig 1100c

 

How do you want to your obit should read?

[Number 6]

51 minutes ago, Mangkhut said:

So in 2018 8266 death happend with bikes less than 150 cc and 224 with socalled big bikes - and then the author of the article asks if we really need big bikes?

 

Eh - do we really need small bikes who caused 8266 deaths in 2018? 

 

Excuse me - but questioning something that causes a very small fraction of deaths and not the absolute biggest cause of traffic deaths in Thailand seem pretty absurd not to say ignorant to me...

Correlation does not imply causation.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Number 6

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

When they write the obit:

 

Died on a Honda Dream 110cc

 

Died on a Maximo Power Pig 1100c

 

How do you want to your obit should read?

Died on the job with a good single malt just finished. ????????

[mogandave]

When they write the obit:
 
Died on a Honda Dream 110cc
 
Died on a Maximo Power Pig 1100c
 
How do you want to your obit should read?

Oldest and richest man in the world dies at 300. He was primarily known for winning the Nobel Piece Prize 34 times and being unanimously elected to a lifetime position as “King of the World” at the age of 65 and for holding the UFC men’s heavyweight title for 240 consecutive years. He is survived by his three current wives(26 year old Ukrainian triplets), 18 of his previous 28 wives, 42 children, 140 grandchildren, 275 great grandchildren, 700 great-great grandchildren and 1900 great-great-great-great grandchildren.

[jackdd]

22 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

At least at government hospitals in the northeast, there are never emergency operations.

This is not correct. My girlfriend worked at such a hospital (at first in ER, later in OR), and at this hospital (small ones might not have this, but the big ones do, even in the northeast) they have at least one doctor and a few nurses on standby 24 hours in the operating room, and further staff on standby at home who has to be at the hospital within 10 minutes if they get a call.

[Airbagwill]

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Yeah, yeah, you're right, I'm 'seriously underinformed' - I've only been riding bikes of all sizes for over 50 years and still ride now - and no, I don't potter about.

QED - Dunning Kruger in all it's glory!

it is amazing how people mistake familiarity for sound reasonong

A man who "knows" everything but understands nothing.

BTW I have even more bike experience than you but I don't rely on a single perspective I actually research a topic......and I know the difference between search and research.

 

[Airbagwill]

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

The facts are that 99% of big bikes are more stable under general and braking conditions

so that's a "fact"? - And now you're even trying to change the goalposts.

 

"and no, I don't potter about" - you're a classic "bike" - all throttle and no thought

Edited August 4, 2019 by Airbagwill