HSBC UK, Charges Massive Increase.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, SooKee said:

It depends what bank. I have been transferring from HSBC to Kasikorn Bank for years and it only cost £4 until a couple of years ago when it didn't. Then, HSBC changed their banking arrangements in Thailand resulting in some people being hit with hefty Intermediary fees. So for you may be it's only ever been £4, for some others it most certainly has not. Hence the discussions elsewhere about it and also here

 

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1009774-hsbc-and-bangkok-bank-a-warning-to-all/

 

That may well be the case but it does not necessarily put the problem with HSBC as you have tried to make out.

"Bangkok Bank "no longer has a banking relationship" with HSBC, "  Bangkok Bank and possibly other Thai banks may not be meeting the standards required.

If I had received that message I would have asked HSBC which Thai banks that they had a good relationship with. European banks have been on IBAN for years but Thailand still using SWIFT, time they caught up.

[Pumpuynarak]

6 hours ago, SooKee said:

Certainly not 100% correct. I and numerous others got hit by intermediary charges from HSBC from around 2 years ago. The precise reason we stopped using them. Or maybe we just imagined it. The issue about transfers to Thailand from HSBC was discussed on another forum at the time. So it depends who you were transferring to.

 

One of the discussions in this very forum:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1009774-hsbc-and-bangkok-bank-a-warning-to-all/

 

Well i did a transfer last month from HSBC to SCB and i was charged 4GBP by HSBC and nothing more and that is all i have ever been charged right up to the date of ceasing to use them (middle of last year) and moving over to TW, my reason for moving was the crap exchange rate offered by SCB.

 

If things have changed why have i only been charged the same 4GBP last month or perhaps i imagined it, lmao ?

Edited August 5, 2019 by Pumpuynarak

[SooKee]

Simple fact of the matter is, the fact that you haven't been charged intermediary fees doesn't mean that others haven't. The fact that others have means that it's not 100% correct that HSBC have only ever charged £4 up to now. If you can't be bothered to check the facts or choose to ignore them, matter for you.

[SooKee]

That may well be the case but it does not necessarily put the problem with HSBC as you have tried to make out.
"Bangkok Bank "no longer has a banking relationship" with HSBC, "  Bangkok Bank and possibly other Thai banks may not be meeting the standards required.
If I had received that message I would have asked HSBC which Thai banks that they had a good relationship with. European banks have been on IBAN for years but Thailand still using SWIFT, time they caught up.

Both I and others have been able to confirm that the charge comes from an intermediary used by HSBC. I'm not 'trying to make out' anything, it's called getting your facts right. It may have only ever been £4 for you up until recently, for others it has not.

[EL159]

13 hours ago, SooKee said:

Simple fact of the matter is, the fact that you haven't been charged intermediary fees doesn't mean that others haven't. The fact that others have means that it's not 100% correct that HSBC have only ever charged £4 up to now. If you can't be bothered to check the facts or choose to ignore them, matter for you.

Quite correct. Sadly we have one of the usual "know it alls" here. The whole point of this thread is that UNTIL THIS MONTH I too was only charged £4 and no further charges at all from the UK end. My latest transfer was on 1st August and suddenly a further £35 has gone....I have asked HSBC WHY they suddenly need an "intermediary bank" but no reply of course. Still waiting. Will post reply if/ when received.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, SooKee said:

On 8/5/2019 at 4:19 PM, sandyf said:

That may well be the case but it does not necessarily put the problem with HSBC as you have tried to make out.
"Bangkok Bank "no longer has a banking relationship" with HSBC, "  Bangkok Bank and possibly other Thai banks may not be meeting the standards required.
If I had received that message I would have asked HSBC which Thai banks that they had a good relationship with. European banks have been on IBAN for years but Thailand still using SWIFT, time they caught up.

Both I and others have been able to confirm that the charge comes from an intermediary used by HSBC. I'm not 'trying to make out' anything, it's called getting your facts right. It may have only ever been £4 for you up until recently, for others it has not.

Of course you are, if HSBC introduced an intermediary it would have been for a reason.

You are just not prepared to accept that alternatively you could have changed the Thai bank, but of coarse much easier to make unjustified assertions.

[Pib]

Simply go to your bank and ask for a credit advice (they are free unless the transfer is older than 6 months) as it will show how much "arrived" your Thai bank before your Thai bank accomplish the exchange and applied their receiving fee.   

 

And if you are sending to a Bangkok Bank acct just sign up for their free SMS Remittance which shows amount arriving, exchange rate, receiving fee, and final amount posting to your acct.

 

If sending 1000 units of some currency but only 965 arrive the Thai bank inbox so to speak then some where along the way an intermediary took a slice.

[Pumpuynarak]

16 hours ago, SooKee said:

Simple fact of the matter is, the fact that you haven't been charged intermediary fees doesn't mean that others haven't. The fact that others have means that it's not 100% correct that HSBC have only ever charged £4 up to now. If you can't be bothered to check the facts or choose to ignore them, matter for you.

and if me aunt had balls she'd be me uncle lol

[Moonlover]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 3:39 PM, humdrumdays said:

I am looking at using Transferwise for the first time.  As an example I put in 1,000 GBP to Thai baht and it was charging me a fee of about 8 GBP. If I transfer it to my Bangkok Bank account in Thailand will Bangkok Bank make a further charge? thanks

No. What you see is what you get. Always.

[Mike Teavee]

On 8/4/2019 at 1:44 PM, Tongjaw said:

Heard a lot of people taking about Transferwise. I live here in Thailand but bank is HSBC in Singapore which is a US dollar account. Can TW be set up for this or do you require a U.K. account? 

I use Transferwise from Singapore with no problems....

1. You tell them how much you want to transfer in the currency you want to transfer it from
2. They tell you how much THB you'll get
3. You transfer to their local account the amount in the currency you're paying with
4. They transfer the agreed upon THB to your account in Thailand

 

Easy Peasy... 

[SooKee]

Very quick update on this.  On 1/8/19 I did a test transfer of £50 from HSBC to Bangkok Bank.  It didn't at the time get hit with intermediary fees as £50 was received by the Thai bank , just got a very low rate.  

 

However on 18 October, around 10 weeks after the transfer, I found a charge of £20 had been made to my account with no information as to what it was for, got me wondering if there was a T&C change I'd missed.  On checking further there was a document in My Documents that merely stated that the £20 charge had been made but gave no reason, no payee in fact zero information whatsoever other than a couple of reference numbers.  The only information that got me suspicious that it was related to that transfer (there have been no others since and none before) was the Beneficiary Bank Code: HBUKFRPXPEG.  It looked like a Forex type code, albeit just a guess.

 

Having sent them a secure message I got a reply yesterday saying that they could not access any information about overseas transfers and advised me to call a number, this confirmed my suspicions.  So not only does it seem that you could get hit for charges above their £4 flat fee, those charges could also be made many weeks later with no information allowing you to tie a charge to any specific transaction.  Pretty abysmal service IMO, they should at the very least make it quite clear that it is an overseas transaction related charge and provide the detail of which transaction it relates to.

 

Definitely will not be using that transfer route again for sure!

[Stocky]

I stopped using HSBC to transfer from Singapore about 18 months ago for similar reasons. It used to be a single SGD10 flat rate charge to transfer SGD to my account in Thailand. Then I found myself being hit with a further SGD20 further down the line. When queried I was told it was my Thai Bank. Thai Bank said no it's not, HSBC changed their story to an 'intermediary' bank, when challenged further I was told there was a SGD40 charge to investigate.

 

That's when I switched to Transferwise.

[SooKee]

2 hours ago, Stocky said:

I stopped using HSBC to transfer from Singapore about 18 months ago for similar reasons. It used to be a single SGD10 flat rate charge to transfer SGD to my account in Thailand. Then I found myself being hit with a further SGD20 further down the line. When queried I was told it was my Thai Bank. Thai Bank said no it's not, HSBC changed their story to an 'intermediary' bank, when challenged further I was told there was a SGD40 charge to investigate.

 

That's when I switched to Transferwise.

Yes I only tried them again as a trial to see if anything had changed.  If anything I preferred it before where the funds you sent would get hit en-route.  Maybe it's easier for them to be more evasive about charges and reasons when they don't hit your account until 10 weeks later!  They are also just as highly evasive about giving out any information at all when you contact them about it. 

[Stocky]

12 minutes ago, SooKee said:

They are also just as highly evasive about giving out any information at all when you contact them about it. 

I was infuriated by the "if you wish us to investigate further there'll be a SGD40 charge" response; my reply to HSBC isn't printable here.

[robertson468]

I have been doing a monthly transfer from HSBC to my local Thai Bank, primarily for Visa purposes.  I received two letters via the HSBC online mailing system recently to tell me that they had raised about £30 each for the last two transfers, plus the £4 processing fee and of course you have to take in to account the lower exchange rate that HSBC uses for currency transfer.  So all in all, I am loosing about £400 annually for the priviledge of monthly transfers to my Thai Bank..........scandelous! Need to investigage a more economical way to transfer money.

[SteveB2]

What is an intermediary bank charge/Third party fee/correspondent bank charge.

 

Most customer’s banks send international wire transfers funds directly to other banks.

 

However, sometimes when your bank does not have a direct relationship with the other bank, then your bank pays the monies through a correspondent (intermediary) bank of their choice.

 

The correspondent banks are usually large international banks based in the world’s leading banking centers. In carrying out this service for the originating bank, the intermediary/correspondent banks make an additional ‘double’ bank transaction charge.

 

Thus, some lesser known local banks or banks that do not have a relationship with the bank receiving the funds need Intermediary/corresponding bank(s) to process international wire transfers, and this will result in an additional charge. The intermediary bank appointed by the transferring bank may deduct the fee from the payment that is being transferred, and that is why some times the amount you receive is less than the mount you transferred.

 

If your bank carries out regular international business with the country you are receiving the funds in and thus has a direct relationship with our bank and other banks across the world, then no third bank (intermediary bank) charge will occur.

 

Avoiding Intermediary Bank Charges

To avoid this charge, use a world famous international bank, most of them can make direct international wire transfers to any country in the world without using an intermediary bank - then no third (intermediary) bank charge will occur. 

 

Since the sending bank has not sent the funds directly to your Thai bank as your instructed them to do, you can claim a refund of the intermediary bank fees from them by visiting the bank in person with a copy of the incoming SWIFT transfer fund showing them how they messed up the transfer.

 

Your local sending bank counter clerk may be unfamiliar with how their bank transfers funds overseas and as to if they need to use an intermediary bank for the transfer and even what the intermediary bank fee is. You will need to speak to the manager or someone high up in the bank who knows about how the overseas funds transfer system and their need to use an intermediary bank to get your refund. If you have problems in the UK, get the Bank Onbudsman onto them if they give you any <deleted>.

[samsensam]

On 8/4/2019 at 11:30 AM, hugh2121 said:

Check out ofx.com I've used them for years with no problems. No commission, no charges BUT they transfer THB so the exchange rate is not quite as good as you can get here but not far off.

 

agree, i use OFX; easy to use and good customer service, there are others but this works for me

[natway09]

I banked with HSBC for a few years (note past tense.)

Most overseas banks are robbers but this one takes the cake

[saengd]

If not already said: HSBC UK no longer has a retail banking relationship with any bank in Thailand so for international transfer purposes they use NatWest UK for this purpose.

[SooKee]

1 hour ago, robertson468 said:

I have been doing a monthly transfer from HSBC to my local Thai Bank, primarily for Visa purposes.  I received two letters via the HSBC online mailing system recently to tell me that they had raised about £30 each for the last two transfers, plus the £4 processing fee and of course you have to take in to account the lower exchange rate that HSBC uses for currency transfer.  So all in all, I am loosing about £400 annually for the priviledge of monthly transfers to my Thai Bank..........scandelous! Need to investigage a more economical way to transfer money.

Indeed.  So much for the flat £4 which is all it used to cost a few years back.  Those using the income method for Retirement Extensions have the added problem of needing to show that their transfers show as International in their bank books / statements which they might not if you use some of the transfer services (that generally offer better conversion rates than banks).  Thus far I've tried:

 

HSBC: Intermediary charges being applied to the transfer either at the time or several weeks later.  Shows as international transfer.  But charges are heavy and conversion rates low.

 

Bangkok Bank via their London Branch to Bangkok Bank in Thailand: Flat £20 fee to send GBP to a BKK Bank in Thailand.  The flat fee of £20 is not bad but the conversion rates at Bangkok Bank are very low I find once the money arrives.  Shows as international transfer.  Still a better option than HSBC for me.

OFX: Reasonable fees (around £7 IIRC) and their exchange rate is very good but in my case, transferring from UK GBP to Bangkok Bank Thailand in baht, the transfer is shown as Bahtnet, not International.  I have seen reference made to the fact that Bahtnet IS International but I haven't confirmed this with the bank and wouldn't want to risk Immigration having a different view.  Better than both HSBC and Bangkok Bank but I'm not prepared to risk the transfers not showing as International.  I have other friends sending funds from different currencies to different banks here where they do seemingly show as International.  Just not for me.

Transferwise: Which I've been using for 3 plus years now.  Never a problem until this need to show the transfers are international (for those whose embassies no longer issue income letters) but noticed that most of my transfers from the UK to Kasikorn bank showed as local transfers in all but 3 cases (where they had used Kasikorn as their partner bank).  Sorted that out at the beginning of the year by opening a Bangkok Bank account (where it seemed most transfers were showing up for others as International given Bangkok Bank is a bank they frequently, but not always, use as the transfer partner) and asking TW to tag all my transfers so that they all use Bangkok Bank as the partner bank.  Touch wood, since then, no problem with every transfer showing as International.  I hope it continues but might switch to the 800K deposit method next year as it's a bit of a chore checking each month that it does show and international and then going to the bank to update the book (if you leave it too long it won't show the individual transfers, just a totalled income / outgoing amount with no specific transfer details - I'm not sure how long you can leave it before that happens so I go every month).

 

While it's good that there still is an income option, life was sure much easier when the nationals of affected embassies were still able to get income letters!

Edited November 27, 2019 by SooKee

[Stocky]

1 hour ago, samsensam said:

i use OFX

I've setup accounts with OFX and Transferwise - to date OFX have never managed to beat Transferwise on SGD to THB transfers.

[Stocky]

4 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Never a problem until this need to show the transfers are international

There are several posts, and I think a thread, suggesting that the Transferwise transaction receipt, together with bank book and bank letter, are acceptable evidence that funds have come from overseas.

[saengd]

Personally, I wouldn't want to bet "I think" on whether Immi. will accept those things come visa extension times, I prefer 100% certain.

[topt]

2 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Avoiding Intermediary Bank Charges

To avoid this charge, use a world famous international bank, most of them can make direct international wire transfers to any country in the world without using an intermediary bank - then no third (intermediary) bank charge will occur. 

Not sure where you have taken this from but it is pretty worthless. Are HSBC not world infamous...........

 

2 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Since the sending bank has not sent the funds directly to your Thai bank as your instructed them to do, you can claim a refund of the intermediary bank fees from them by visiting the bank in person with a copy of the incoming SWIFT transfer fund showing them how they messed up the transfer.

 

The "visiting the bank in person" is really helpful when the person originating the transfer from a UK bank is in Thailand........

[stewartthailand]

I use First Direct, a subsidiary of HSBC, transfer £1,900 pm in sterling to Bangkok Bank. No charge at either end. Great service????

[Pdavies99]

Read your comments and I transfer sterling from HSBC UK to my Thai Bank, Krung Thai every 3 months. I have not had any charges for many years, ( and I receive a very good rate) so I contacted them today online, this is there response

 

"Hi Paul, there is no charge for making your overseas transaction through Online Banking, but there a charge is carried if you make the payment over the phone with us - Phil."

 

Checking there charges page, I think it depends also if you say transfer Sterling, or convert into Thai Baht at source, and if you say "same day transfer" which they can do effecting "Transferwise"  and as they say effect online, not by telephone.

 

My money usually arrives in between 2-4 days

 

Good Luck!!

Edited November 27, 2019 by Pdavies99

[DaRoadrunner]

HSBC has always been a greedy and expensive bank. Lets take our lavish patronage elsewhere.

[mickylongtime]

Hello I also used transferwise to send money from the UK it's sent in bhat direct to my kasikorn bank very quickly and cheapest  I found so far, also the kasikorn band don't charge to receive bhat, sterling account did before and you have to pay a yearly charge if your sterling goes below a certain amount, by far transferwise is the best for me, second would be PayPal zoom it's slightly more expensive ????

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, stewartthailand said:

I use First Direct, a subsidiary of HSBC, transfer £1,900 pm in sterling to Bangkok Bank. No charge at either end. Great service????

If you are sending Sterling to Bangkok Bank then Bangkok Bank will charge a processing fee.

 

. 

Bangkok Bank charges a receiving fee of 0.25% of the transfer amount (minimum 200 baht, maximum 500 baht).

FAQs about transferring into Thailand - ธนาคารกรุงเทพ

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com › Personal › Other-Services › Transfers › FA...

Edited November 27, 2019 by Jip99

[SooKee]

14 hours ago, Stocky said:

There are several posts, and I think a thread, suggesting that the Transferwise transaction receipt, together with bank book and bank letter, are acceptable evidence that funds have come from overseas.

Yeah the problem is that I've not seen any posts confirming that this is correct from folks who have actually tried it at Immigration, nearly all of the posts have been "I suspect that.........".  If you were lucky, had a reasonable IO, could show that 12 out of your 13 transfers were international and had one go rogue and show up as local then you might be OK if you showed all the documents that have been talked about.  MIGHT. The problem is there's a risk and if it goes wrong the result could be pretty catastrophic.  Far better to have every single TX show as international.  If I ever do get one that shows as local, I'll just do another transfer for that month using one of the guaranteed, but more expensive, transfer routes to ensure there's no problem.  I'd maybe then ask the what if question when I go to Immigration next.  Problem is, even if the IO said no problem, the next IO might take a different view.

Edited November 28, 2019 by SooKee