US will struggle to counter China’s muscle in Asia, experts say

[snoop1130]

US will struggle to counter China’s muscle in Asia, experts say

By PHUWIT LIMVIPHUWAT
THE NATION

 

Piyanat Soikham of Ubon Ratchathani University

 

Experts in international relations have expressed doubt that the “clear political agenda” behind the Indo-Pacific Strategy proffered by the United States – to compete with China’s growing influence in Asia – will yield tangible progress in coming years, unlike China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

 

Washington’s strategy aims to increase US economic involvement in countries ringing the Pacific and Indian oceans.

 

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told reporters in Bangkok last Friday that the US wanted to promote free and open economic growth in the region. He insisted that US investments in the region would come from the private sector and have no underlying political agenda.

 

Southeast Asia “is central to our Indo-Pacific Strategy because it lies in the centre of the region, connecting the Pacific Ocean with the Indian Ocean,” said Eric Jones, chief of staff at the US Overseas Private Investment Corp (OPIC).

 

OPIC last year allocated $4 billion to finance projects among the 10 member-nations of Asean, hoping to spur further investment from US private firms, Jones said. 

 

In 2018, foreign direct investment in the region from US firms totalled $140 trillion, he noted.

 

Representatives from the US Bureau of Energy Resources also met Asean leaders in June about increasing US investment in the regional energy sector through the US Asia Edge programme.

 

US officials from both that bureau and OPIC stress that investments from US firms in Asean would not require Washington’s backing and thus would be free of political ambitions.

 

The experts in international relations say they see a political agenda clearly, though. The aim is to counter China’s growing clout in the region.

 

“The US private sector, especially multinational firms, have a close relationship with the government, acting as lobbyists and funding political parties,” said Piyanat Soikham, a lecturer in politics and international relations at Ubon Ratchathani University.

 

A regional foreign-affairs agenda involving large private corporations, such as the Indo-Pacific Strategy, is likely to have a political motive, Piyanat said in an interview with The Nation.

 

While China’s BRI has a clear economic and political aim to increase Beijing’s influence globally, the Indo-Pacific Strategy is more “reactive” in its bid to contain China’s influence, Arm Tungnirun, a lecturer at Chulalongkorn University’s faculty of law and author of the book “China 5.0”, said in a separate interview.

 

Arm also believes US private firms place more importance on political outcomes than Chinese state enterprises.

 

Beijing, for instance, has made it clear that BRI projects can be launched in any country, whether under democratic rule or not. But the US government and private firms will be more politically selective in choosing places to invest, he said.

 

Both Piyanat and Arm believe the Indo-Pacific Strategy will struggle to compete with BRI due to the changing geopolitical landscape in Asia. 

 

“Unlike in past decades, we now live in a multi-polar world with competing geopolitical strategies,” Piyanat said.

 

The Indo-Pacific Strategy, he said, might not be met with open arms in the region since various countries have their own regional agendas to pursue, whereas BRI already has an established presence in developing countries here.

 

“The Indo-Pacific Strategy is not President Trump’s top foreign-affairs policy, unlike the importance of BRI to the Chinese government,” Arm said. “This means that the Indo-Pacific Strategy is unlikely to yield as many concrete projects as the BRI.”

 

It is only meant to signal to countries in the Indo-Pacific region that there is an alternative for foreign investment other than BRI. It’s meant to counterbalance China’s influence in their respective economies, he said.

 

Arm said this is especially the case in Southeast Asia, which has a complicated relationship with Beijing due to some nations’ overlapping territorial claims in the South China Sea.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/business/30374259

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2019-08-05

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[Puchaiyank]

While the Americans are still consumed with the 2016 election results and dreams of impeachment, the Chinese have been busy with long range planning for global and especially regional development and dominance...

 

America's relevance in this part of the world is relatively small and getting smaller.

 

 

[dimitriv]

22 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

America's relevance in this part of the world is relatively small and getting smaller.

 

 

You can wonder also if countries who are willing to work together with China, countries stupid enough to work together with China, countries with no vision for their own future and no clue about the real intentions and threat of China deserve anything better.  

[ballpoint]

39 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

You can wonder also if countries who are willing to work together with China, countries stupid enough to work together with China, countries with no vision for their own future and no clue about the real intentions and threat of China deserve anything better.  

America, and the European colonial powers, have done far more damage to Southeast Asia than China ever has.

[manarak]

5 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

America, and the European colonial powers, have done far more damage to Southeast Asia than China ever has.

China has largely matched and outdone that in damaging itself, and look at Vietnam and North Korea, Tibet... Commies everywhere.

Edited August 5, 2019 by manarak

[dimitriv]

2 hours ago, ballpoint said:

America, and the European colonial powers, have done far more damage to Southeast Asia than China ever has.

America and Europe acknowledged their mistakes.

 

China is a country of oppression, shameless lies, unjustified claims to the territory of other countries, and 3 million people in concentration camps.

China is like Nazi Germany from before 1940.

[Traubert]

14 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

America and Europe acknowledged their mistakes.

 

China is a country of oppression, shameless lies, unjustified claims to the territory of other countries, and 3 million people in concentration camps.

China is like Nazi Germany from before 1940.

Hurrah!!!

 

Godwin's Law in only post #6.

 

Chapeau comrade. ????

 

 

[timendres]

4 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Both Piyanat and Arm believe the Indo-Pacific Strategy will struggle to compete with BRI due to the changing geopolitical landscape in Asia.

These are the "international experts" being referred to by the article?!

 

This is a long game (not confined to one administration), and who will the countries that recognize the threat of China turn to? As they witness HK fall, then Taiwan, it will be crystal clear. This is the new "cold war" being executed with economics as opposed to nuclear weapons. It is definitely still unclear how it will shake out, and how important SEA is to the overall US strategy.

[dimitriv]

34 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Godwin's Law in only post #6.

Chapeau comrade. ????

 

 

Thank you!  ????

 

Maybe you can also respond substantively?

 

How would you call a country with concentration camps, suppression of dissenters, suppression of other religions, the occupation of other countries and claiming the territory of other countries showing the will to achieve that with military means?

 

For me concentration camps is already enough to make a conclusion.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by dimitriv

[Traubert]

40 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

Thank you!  ????

 

Maybe you can also respond substantively?

 

How would you call a country with concentration camps, suppression of dissenters, suppression of other religions, the occupation of other countries and claiming the territory of other countries showing the will to achieve that with military means?

 

For me concentration camps is already enough to make a conclusion.

 

Ok, substantively, no-one else in the world, even the most dedicated hand-wringers, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, World Uighur Congress etc, have ever put the figure at 3 milllion. Chapeau 1. There's only 15 million of them in Xinjiang.

 

China does not occupy other countries and before you reach for the Tibetan flag, Tibet was within existing Chinese territory in the 16th century, and was re-occupied after the Civil and World Wars distracted everybody for 10 years. 

 

Suppression of dissenters. Have you read Weibo on any given day? It's heaving with dissent. and the Government pays a lot of attention. They are actually wary of the people, which you'll never believe. There is something like 260,000 public protests a month in China. What is suppressed is raising a mob.

 

Claiming the territory of other countries. I assume you mean the South China Sea. Well in that case Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia are also claiming other countries territory, It's a dispute that has yet to be resolved and there's one thing certain in that dispute and that is Vietnam is leading the race in fortified islands.

 

Concentration camps. Now there's one straight out of Godwins Law. Invented by the British I understand during the Boer War, and used for mass extermination of undesirables by various, nefarious regimes ever since. So how many have died in China's 'concentration camps?' An article on your very own Thai Visa a couple of weeks ago by various journalists that had been on a tour of your 'concentration camps' came back very unspectacular, reporting that Islam extremism was being quietly explained and discouraged in these places. No more mass hackings in railway concourses, no more more petrol bombs in the market place. Good thing or bad thing?

 

Is that substantive enough? Did I miss anything?

Edited August 5, 2019 by Traubert
Repated Malaysia

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

While the Americans are still consumed with the 2016 election results and dreams of impeachment, the Chinese have been busy with long range planning for global and especially regional development and dominance...

 

America's relevance in this part of the world is relatively small and getting smaller.

 

 

 

Being a dictatorship does have some advantages. Like being able to plan long term, and the political horizon not being the next elections. But, of course, pitting the two countries and systems as if they are similar can serve the narrative sometimes, eh?

 

The USA relevance to this part of the world is a balance. China engaged in its regional initiatives, and it was obvious that the balance will change. How much and how fast - that's also something to do with who sits in the White House and what policies he pushes.

[AlexRich]

Trump’s childish decision to drop the trans Pacific partnership gave the Chinese a vacuum to fill ... and destroyed any chance of exerting influence in the region.

[Chelseafan]

4 hours ago, Traubert said:

Hurrah!!!

 

Godwin's Law in only post #6.

 

Chapeau comrade. ????

 

 

Shouldn't the thread be shut down ? ????

[dimitriv]

2 hours ago, Traubert said:

China does not occupy other countries and before you reach for the Tibetan flag, Tibet was within existing Chinese territory in the 16th century, and was re-occupied after the Civil and World Wars distracted everybody for 10 years. 

 

 

Yes, I was talking about Tibet. It was an independent country and China occupied it. If you go back far enough in history you can always find excuses. Do you know that New York was Dutch ?  Almost everything in what we now call the US used to be a part of some European country. And all countries in Europe were bigger or smaller in the past.  It is not an excuse to start wars hundreds of years later. Maybe Tibet was Chinese in the 16th century, but it doesn't give them the right to occupy Tibet now, and to suppress the residents.

 

The claims of China in the South China Sea were rejected by the UN, saying that there was no evidence that China had historically any rights over the waters or resources in the sea. And we all know what they are doing now.

 

I don't know about your motive to defend China. I saw you in other thread writing; "The Hong Kong people have the same level of freedom they had 22 years ago. More than they had previous to that actually, under the Brits."   It is a lie. China broke the agreement many many times and tries to undermine democracy in every way they can.

 

And about the concentration camps...  Nobody can tell how many people died there. China doesn't allow access to these camps. There was a tour, but this tour was organised by China. If you really read the articles you should know that there was no real access, no way to really see much. Saying that these tours prove that nothing is wrong there is exactly what China wants you to do.

 

 

 

 

[legend49]

6 hours ago, HeyHeyHey said:

Thai experts from Uni ranked as 2235th in the world https://www.4icu.org/reviews/4515.htm

 

vs some of the smartest people in the Washington

 

I know who I bet on

Thais?

[Emdog]

"Washington’s strategy aims to increase US economic involvement in countries ringing the Pacific and Indian oceans."

Put that in past tense. Trump's hatred of anything with sniff of Obama administration, damn the consequences in real world, has sent US diplomats into this fight with 1 or more arms tied behind their collective backs

[Johnnyngai]

10 hours ago, dimitriv said:

America and Europe acknowledged their mistakes.

 

China is a country of oppression, shameless lies, unjustified claims to the territory of other countries, and 3 million people in concentration camps.

China is like Nazi Germany from before 1940.

Plus a thousand from Hong Kong.

[Isaan sailor]

If Thailand continues to side with the ChiComs...they will go down with them.

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.  

 

[jany123]

https://media.defense.gov/2019/Jul/01/2002152311/-1/-1/1/DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE-INDO-PACIFIC-STRATEGY-REPORT-2019.PDF

 

Authored in June.... a department of defense document vs a department of commerce document, reading more like another way to rebuild crumbling alliances to counter regional military threats, having arisen since Obama’s era.

 

in regards trade, investment and security, after all the withdrawing by the trump, this is a puke worthy document.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Isaan sailor said:

If Thailand continues to side with the ChiComs...they will go down with them.

Because?

[jany123]

1 hour ago, Isaan sailor said:

If Thailand continues to side with the ChiComs...they will go down with them.

Or rise with them, as the stars dim over those divided states... A failing state.... with a massive debt owed to those chicoms you decry.

[Dumbastheycome]

12 hours ago, Traubert said:

Ok, substantively, no-one else in the world, even the most dedicated hand-wringers, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, World Uighur Congress etc, have ever put the figure at 3 milllion. Chapeau 1. There's only 15 million of them in Xinjiang.

 

China does not occupy other countries and before you reach for the Tibetan flag, Tibet was within existing Chinese territory in the 16th century, and was re-occupied after the Civil and World Wars distracted everybody for 10 years. 

 

Suppression of dissenters. Have you read Weibo on any given day? It's heaving with dissent. and the Government pays a lot of attention. They are actually wary of the people, which you'll never believe. There is something like 260,000 public protests a month in China. What is suppressed is raising a mob.

 

Claiming the territory of other countries. I assume you mean the South China Sea. Well in that case Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia are also claiming other countries territory, It's a dispute that has yet to be resolved and there's one thing certain in that dispute and that is Vietnam is leading the race in fortified islands.

 

Concentration camps. Now there's one straight out of Godwins Law. Invented by the British I understand during the Boer War, and used for mass extermination of undesirables by various, nefarious regimes ever since. So how many have died in China's 'concentration camps?' An article on your very own Thai Visa a couple of weeks ago by various journalists that had been on a tour of your 'concentration camps' came back very unspectacular, reporting that Islam extremism was being quietly explained and discouraged in these places. No more mass hackings in railway concourses, no more more petrol bombs in the market place. Good thing or bad thing?

 

Is that substantive enough? Did I miss anything?

I tink maybe a mention of Guantanamo Bay could have been squeezed in . lol

[bristolboy]

12 hours ago, Traubert said:

Ok, substantively, no-one else in the world, even the most dedicated hand-wringers, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, World Uighur Congress etc, have ever put the figure at 3 milllion. Chapeau 1. There's only 15 million of them in Xinjiang.

 

China does not occupy other countries and before you reach for the Tibetan flag, Tibet was within existing Chinese territory in the 16th century, and was re-occupied after the Civil and World Wars distracted everybody for 10 years. 

 

Suppression of dissenters. Have you read Weibo on any given day? It's heaving with dissent. and the Government pays a lot of attention. They are actually wary of the people, which you'll never believe. There is something like 260,000 public protests a month in China. What is suppressed is raising a mob.

 

Claiming the territory of other countries. I assume you mean the South China Sea. Well in that case Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia are also claiming other countries territory, It's a dispute that has yet to be resolved and there's one thing certain in that dispute and that is Vietnam is leading the race in fortified islands.

 

Concentration camps. Now there's one straight out of Godwins Law. Invented by the British I understand during the Boer War, and used for mass extermination of undesirables by various, nefarious regimes ever since. So how many have died in China's 'concentration camps?' An article on your very own Thai Visa a couple of weeks ago by various journalists that had been on a tour of your 'concentration camps' came back very unspectacular, reporting that Islam extremism was being quietly explained and discouraged in these places. No more mass hackings in railway concourses, no more more petrol bombs in the market place. Good thing or bad thing?

 

Is that substantive enough? Did I miss anything?

It's merely up to 1 million Uighurs. Just because it's less than 3 million that doesn't mean it isn't really bad

The fate of estimated up to one million people is unknown and most of the detainees’ families have been kept in the dark.

China has intensified its campaign of mass internment, intrusive surveillance, political indoctrination and forced cultural assimilation against the region’s Uighurs, Kazakhs and other predominantly Muslim ethnic groups.

Amnesty International has interviewed more than 100 people outside of China whose relatives in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region (XUAR) are still missing, as well as individuals who said they were tortured while in detention camps there.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/09/china-up-to-one-million-detained/

 

And you believe that previous Chinese invasions and rule over Tibet justify it's invasion in 1950? If that's the case, most of the globe would have nothing to complain about if their former occupiers decided to reassert what you believe to be their rights. 

 

First of all, free speech isn't just about complaints on social media. It's having an independent media free to fact check the goverment's claim. As for Weibo:

ON CHINA'S WEIBO, IT'S FORBIDDEN TO DISAGREE WITH PRESIDENT XI JINPING'S PLAN TO RULE FOREVER

https://www.newsweek.com/chinas-weibo-it-forbidden-disagree-president-xi-jinpings-plan-rule-822052

 

If the South China Sea issue is yet to be resolved, it's because China refuses to accept the judgement of an internatonal Tribunal in the Hague. All the other countries in the dispute accept its judgement.

 

And you're wrong about the definition of concentration camps.

Concentration camp, internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security, exploitation, or punishment, usually by executive decree or military order. Persons are placed in such camps often on the basis of identification with a particular ethnic or political group rather than as individuals and without benefit either of indictment or fair trial. Concentration camps are to be distinguished from prisons interning persons lawfully convicted of civil crimes and from prisoner-of-war camps in which captured military personnel are held under the laws of war. 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/concentration-camp

[Isaan sailor]

5 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Because?

Because Thailand’s overpriced currency will preclude them from playing in the post ChiCom manufacturer relocation.  Vietnam and Taiwan will eat Thailand’s lunch.

[IAMHERE]

Got to love the doublespeak "US Overseas Private Investment Corp". Give you one shot at guessing if it is private funded or a government agency ?

[bristolboy]

22 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

Because Thailand’s overpriced currency will preclude them from playing in the post ChiCom manufacturer relocation.  Vietnam and Taiwan will eat Thailand’s lunch.

But what you said was:

"If Thailand continues to side with the ChiComs...they will go down with them."

What has that got to do with the cost of doing business in Thailand? If Thailand stands against China how will that affect the cost of doing business?

 

And, for what it's worth, the Taiwanese minimum wage is roughly twice that of Thailand's.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by bristolboy

[TTL2]

If US can't swallow China, it will therefore swallow on Mexican, Venezuelan, Brazil and Latin America. Just watch and see.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

5555 A $140 Trillion FDI in the region, another bad mistake in the article. 

[pookondee]

IMO, The headline is absolutely accurate.

 

Trumps so called "deal making" certainly will not work in Asia.

Others who were more clever than him have tried and failed miserably.

 

Trump, and therefor USA, are kapoot.in Asia.

They have no power, no clout, no respect and whatsmore Asians think he is about as clever as a badly painted Ronald McDonald statue.

 

Asians have quite wisely kept their protectionist laws and therefor still have control over their own countries.

 

China has put in real "on the ground" commitments to its trading neighbours,

 

re money, actually building infrastructure in the "belt roads" and so on,

instead of empty promises about stupid walls that will have no purpose or benefit to anyone.

 

I have no hesitation in my bet on where the next BIG economic chrash will be.

 

Asia still has potential and is clever enough to be sticking together and therefor limiting financial exposure to USA and the west. 

 

What has the west got?

Dying markets that can no longer compete,

aging populations, whom they dont even want to give fair medical care for, let alone  pay pensions to. 

 

and of course lets not forget,  HUGE debt where soon they will have to invent new words for all the zeros in the debt figure.

 

In Trumps USA, sadly, the only power left is sanctions and starting wars, all of which wont do much good anyway