Out with the backpackers in with the Chinese - Khao San Road makeover continues

[GoodieAfterDark]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 11:08 PM, Vacuum said:

You should get out more, especially early in the morning....

When I was in BKK on my way to Rama IX Park, I would see street sweepers everyday at 5AM. 

[sunnyboy2018]

On 8/6/2019 at 6:42 AM, FritsSikkink said:

What a load of nonsense:

Since when are backpackers or people who come here to visit the prostitutes the highest quality tourists?

There are high quality tourists from all nations.

Chinese spend more per day than any other nationality.

How do you define quality tourist? Backpackers spend a lot of money which goes directly to small businesses.  Wittness how wealthy Banglampoo is now compared to 30 years ago. Sex tourists do not have just one singular interest.  They also, wine, dine, travel and in general spend a lot.

[FritsSikkink]

55 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

How do you define quality tourist? Backpackers spend a lot of money which goes directly to small businesses.  Wittness how wealthy Banglampoo is now compared to 30 years ago. Sex tourists do not have just one singular interest.  They also, wine, dine, travel and in general spend a lot.

Backpackers don't spend a lot of money, might be a lot for you though but in general it is peanuts.

Edited August 8, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[RocketDog]

On 8/6/2019 at 10:27 AM, RichardColeman said:

With lots of Chinese , the street will be used as a toilet soon

Soon? I think you meant now.

 

The Sh*t has finally hit the Road.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 8/6/2019 at 10:08 AM, BestB said:

 Very wise decision , instead of pushing for multicultural street they now pushing it for declining number of Chinese and then maybe change to Indians ?

Guess, after, unsuccessfully, trying for decades to learn English, and for months Chinese, the vendors will have to try learning Hindi...

[expat1010]

 

[sunnyboy2018]

22 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Backpackers don't spend a lot of money, might be a lot for you though but in general it is peanuts.

Back packers,  funded by bank of mum and dad, middle class, on a gap year spend loads of money compared to Thai incomes  and the money goes direct to Thai people.  The backpackers rove all round Thailand for long periods of time. Banglampoo was a broke poor area until economy travellers and Backpackers injected massive amount of money over the last 3 decades. The temple, the police station,  the shop fronts,  the hotel, the shops, the wealth....all generated by back packers and economy travellers. You bring your prejudices to the forum.  I bring experience based on real time observation.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 8/6/2019 at 10:02 AM, spidermike007 said:

Absolute nonsense. Sometimes people read charts, without the ability to interpret them. It is true that the Chinese spend more per capita, than any other nation, worldwide. However, Thailand does not attract anything even resembling the rich Chinese that visit most other countries. Same with the Indians. The rich ones have a dozen valid reasons why they do not visit Thailand. Do I need to recite them again? Do you really think a smart, wealthy Chinese couple walk into a store in Siam Paragon, and buy a Prada handbag for $15,000, that they can get in Hong Kong, or Singapore for $5,000? I know a number of wealthy people. None of them are dumb. 

 

So, the charts are meaningless. It is mid range, and low end tourists from China and India that visit Thailand. That is an undisputed fact. The backpackers you mention fall somewhere in line with the average Chinese tourists, who come on a group tour, in terms of spending. They are the low lying fruit. I used to know Westerners who would visit from New York or London, and they spent $1,000 a day, some far more. I had one friend who dropped $75,000 on a ten day trip to Samui, with his wife, and two kids. He did trips like that twice a year. A lawyer from London, who made $12 million a year. He spent $150,000 a year on two vacations. I asked him why he was staying in a place that cost $1,200 a night. He said he only took two trips a year, time was of the essence for him, and he needed each trip to be perfect, with no nonsense or surprises. He said the expense was irrelevant. In his mind he had already spend the $75,000, so when the 23,000 baht check came for dinner, at the five star hotel, it meant nothing to him. He just signed for it. When the wife went to the spa, and spend 22,000 baht, again it meant nothing. The Amex bill came at the end of the month, he wrote a check for $100,000, or whatever his bill was, and that was it. No big deal. 

 

Those kinds of tourists just do not come here anymore. He never returned, and that was 10 years ago. They do not have the time, interest, energy, patience or desire to put up with the nonsense here, the lack of expertise, the mistakes, the fools, the policies, or the mediocrity. 

 

 

You've got to bear in mind, the Chinese tourists are paying for and staying in the new hotels that are being built in all of Thailand's tourist resorts.  You're right when you say that Chinese tourists don't spend money in restaurants outside of the hotels, and correct, they don't actually buy stuff from Thai traders at the tourist resorts. But still, they're paying their hotel bills. And I think, that's what matters for the Thai government's strategy.

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

You've got to bear in mind, the Chinese tourists are paying for and staying in the new hotels that are being built in all of Thailand's tourist resorts.  You're right when you say that Chinese tourists don't spend money in restaurants outside of the hotels, and correct, they don't actually buy stuff from Thai traders at the tourist resorts. But still, they're paying their hotel bills. And I think, that's what matters for the Thai government's strategy.

Nah. They are paying half price for the hotels. Nearly all of the tours are booked at wholesale rates, and it helps them to fill rooms that would otherwise be empty, but they are not making much money on the deal. Same with the buffets. Negotiated down to silly prices. And the Chinese eat alot! The whole strategy is a disaster, engineered by very small minds, with no imagination, in order to be able to say the annual numbers are up. Makes no sense on any rational level. It is all about hubris, pride, perceived honor, and arrogance. Nothing to do with practical strategy, or the well being of the Thai people. 

 

 

[elliss]

On 8/6/2019 at 11:55 AM, Neeranam said:

The sex pats need  someone to lol look down on, to justify their sad existence.

 

 

       I would rather be a sex pat on pensions ,   than the new generation of beg packers, from UK..

 

[FritsSikkink]

9 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Back packers,  funded by bank of mum and dad, middle class, on a gap year spend loads of money compared to Thai incomes  and the money goes direct to Thai people.  The backpackers rove all round Thailand for long periods of time. Banglampoo was a broke poor area until economy travellers and Backpackers injected massive amount of money over the last 3 decades. The temple, the police station,  the shop fronts,  the hotel, the shops, the wealth....all generated by back packers and economy travellers. You bring your prejudices to the forum.  I bring experience based on real time observation.

I have been here since 1981, what is your experience?

[tlandtday]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Nah. They are paying half price for the hotels. Nearly all of the tours are booked at wholesale rates, and it helps them to fill rooms that would otherwise be empty, but they are not making much money on the deal. Same with the buffets. Negotiated down to silly prices. And the Chinese eat alot! The whole strategy is a disaster, engineered by very small minds, with no imagination, in order to be able to say the annual numbers are up. Makes no sense on any rational level. It is all about hubris, pride, perceived honor, and arrogance. Nothing to do with practical strategy, or the well being of the Thai people. 

 

 

yeah they are doing a great job of deterring western visitors with the strong baht, crazy visa rules and changing attitudes.  They hope to get the high end Chinese and Indian tourists but they are going to America and Europe and instead they are getting the cheap charlie package tours which is making some Chinese tour operators very wealthy as well as creating a lot of dinner business at the local 711's lol.  

[spidermike007]

29 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

yeah they are doing a great job of deterring western visitors with the strong baht, crazy visa rules and changing attitudes.  They hope to get the high end Chinese and Indian tourists but they are going to America and Europe and instead they are getting the cheap charlie package tours which is making some Chinese tour operators very wealthy as well as creating a lot of dinner business at the local 711's lol.  

 

The real solution is about encouraging tourists, from countries that spend real money, to come here and visit. And encouraging ex-pats who live here, to stay, and thrive. Xenophobia and racism from the army, seems to be preventing that now. The message about tourism  seems to have gotten lost, in the fervor to court the Chinese tourists, and Indians, many of whom do not spend much money at all here. So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism, and the fearful administration. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Now, those Western tourists are gone for good, for a dozen good reasons, including the ones you mentioned. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not.  

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. There are many aspects of life here, that I truly enjoy. I am sure many feel the same way. Just wish the country was not moving backwards, (and was instead moving forward under the leadership of progressive minds) due to a system of meritocracy, and a complete lack of forward looking vision. A nice dream indeed.

 

Will Thailand ever improve? I dislike the government with a passion, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. 

 

Moving the country forward? I think not. More like "The Thai army moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace".

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by spidermike007

[tlandtday]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

 

The real solution is about encouraging tourists, and ex-pats, from countries that spend real money, to come here and visit. That message seems to have gotten lost, in the fervor to court the Chinese tourists, and Indians, many of whom do not spend much money at all here. So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Now, those Western tourists are gone for good, for a dozen good reasons, including the ones you mentioned. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not.  

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. There are many aspects of life here, that I truly enjoy. I am sure many feel the same way. Just wish the country was not moving backwards, (and was instead moving forward under the leadership of progressive minds) due to a system of meritocracy, and a complete lack of forward looking vision. A nice dream indeed.

 

Will Thailand ever improve? I dislike the government with a passion, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. 

 

Moving the country forward? I think not. More like "The Thai army moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace".

 

What is unfortunately likely to happen with many of these countries is that they will effectively become hostage to China.  And by this I mean the dependency will increase and you may well see an opened up visa process here once the westerners are out.  China has given notice in the past that they want to transplant a few million from China into Laos and the same may very well happen in Thailand and Cambodia.  For now Vietnam and the Ph have not been receptive but we shall see what the future holds.  First comes the railway.  Malaysia and Indonesia will look more attractive by the day. 

[spidermike007]

8 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

What is unfortunately likely to happen with many of these countries is that they will effectively become hostage to China.  And by this I mean the dependency will increase and you may well see an opened up visa process here once the westerners are out.  China has given notice in the past that they want to transplant a few million from China into Laos and the same may very well happen in Thailand and Cambodia.  For now Vietnam and the Ph have not been receptive but we shall see what the future holds.  First comes the railway.  Malaysia and Indonesia will look more attractive by the day. 

 

I think there is no doubt about China's intentions. They were a world power for 7 centuries. The leadership there just sees it as regaining their rightful place in history. Whatever it takes. And they are in a position to make this happen. No doubt Xi has been greatly helped by Trump, who is diminishing America's influence and place in the world as a leader, by the day. While China continues to amass a fortune in cash, and become more influential, the US continues to amass a fortune in debt, and watches it's influence wane more and more. It is the end of the empire for America, and just the beginning for China. Most economists are predicting that the Chinese economy will outpace the US within 10-20 years. They are simply laying the groundwork. 

 

The study of world power has been blighted by Eurocentric historians who have distorted and ignored the dominant role China played in the world economy between 1100 and 1800.  John Hobson’s brilliant historical survey of the world economy during this period provides an abundance of empirical data making the case for China ’s economic and technological superiority over Western civilization for the better part of a millennium prior to its conquest and decline in the 19th century. China ’s re-emergence as a world economic power raises important questions about what we can learn from its previous rise and fall and about the external and internal threats confronting this emerging economic superpower for the immediate future.

 

https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-rise-fall-and-re-emergence-as-a-global-power-2/29644

Edited August 10, 2019 by spidermike007

[tlandtday]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I think there is no doubt about China's intentions. They were a world power for 7 centuries. The leadership there just sees it as regaining their rightful place in history. Whatever it takes. And they are in a position to make this happen. No doubt Xi has been greatly helped by Trump, who is diminishing America's influence and place in the world as a leader, by the day. While China continues to amass a fortune in cash, and become more influential, the US continues to amass a fortune in debt, and watches it's influence wane more and more. It is the end of the empire for America, and just the beginning for China. Most economists are predicting that the Chinese economy will outpace the US within 10-20 years. They are simply laying the groundwork. 

 

The study of world power has been blighted by Eurocentric historians who have distorted and ignored the dominant role China played in the world economy between 1100 and 1800.  John Hobson’s brilliant historical survey of the world economy during this period provides an abundance of empirical data making the case for China ’s economic and technological superiority over Western civilization for the better part of a millennium prior to its conquest and decline in the 19th century. China ’s re-emergence as a world economic power raises important questions about what we can learn from its previous rise and fall and about the external and internal threats confronting this emerging economic superpower for the immediate future.

 

https://www.globalresearch.ca/china-rise-fall-and-re-emergence-as-a-global-power-2/29644

I would disagree Trump is actually standing up to the unfair trade practices employed by China where others have not. This should have been dealt with decades ago.  China is essentially a money printing machine and using the money to fund many unprofitable govt owned businesses as well as throwing easy cash at private enterprise.  In many ways it is a social welfare system as so many industries are simply not profitable at present.  The long game is to wipe out all competitors than increase margins.  The clock is ticking on China.  It will be interesting.

[JAG]

On 8/6/2019 at 10:32 AM, mercman24 said:

learn some Hindu while your at  it, for when the *quality* Indians arrive????

No hurry, they will be staying for a long time, albeit under the radar! In fact, I would hazard a guess that in a few years time most of the traders on Khao San Road will be from India!

[tlandtday]

7 minutes ago, JAG said:

No hurry, they will be staying for a long time, albeit under the radar! In fact, I would hazard a guess that in a few years time most of the traders on Khao San Road will be from India!

This is already happening in Krabi.

[Twigtom]

The continuation of the decline of Western tourism. Thailand made a decision long ago, to avoid pursuing the highest quality of tourist around. They are now courting low baht, low quality, for the sake of the annual total numbers of arrivals. Really, really dumb policy. Brain dead planning, by total incompetents. Nearly everyone I speak with, anywhere in the country, who is in the tourism industry says the same thing. They are suffering, this new group of tourists just does not spend much (unless you are 7/11, a fruit vendor, or sell baseball caps), and contribute very little to the local economy.
 
This lack of Western tourists, is a major disaster for the nation, and only a matter of time before this manifests itself on alot of levels. In addition, with so many ex-pets leaving, who contribute enormously to the local economy, one can only hope (with such mindless policy), that the baht eventually drops significantly. One would presume that will eventually happen. 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[usviphotography]

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

The real solution is about encouraging tourists, from countries that spend real money, to come here and visit. And encouraging ex-pats who live here, to stay, and thrive. Xenophobia and racism from the army, seems to be preventing that now. The message about tourism  seems to have gotten lost, in the fervor to court the Chinese tourists, and Indians, many of whom do not spend much money at all here. So, what happened? The Western tourists started to decline in number, and the genius minds at the TAT decided it was time to "lure" the Chinese. They came. But, they did not spend much money. Hotels, restaurants, gift shops, jewelers, galleries, spas, massage shops, bars, and countless other businesses suffered, and will continue to suffer from this extreme myopia, on the part of the officials in charge of tourism, and the fearful administration. Oh well. Can't say they were not warned. Now, those Western tourists are gone for good, for a dozen good reasons, including the ones you mentioned. 

 

 

There are 1.3 billion people in China and the numbers of people entering the middle class have exploded over the past decade. That Chinese will constitute the largest group of tourists to visit Thailand is an inevitability. TAT didn't have to "do" anything to make this happen. It is a natural outgrowth of China's rise to world power status. 10 years from now, middle class Vietnamese will probably be visiting Thailand in significant numbers too. 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, elliss said:

 

       I would rather be a sex pat on pensions ,   than the new generation of beg packers, from UK..

 

Wow, is this something you dreamt of when working in a factory  in Manchester all your life?

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, tlandtday said:

I would disagree Trump is actually standing up to the unfair trade practices employed by China where others have not. This should have been dealt with decades ago.  China is essentially a money printing machine and using the money to fund many unprofitable govt owned businesses as well as throwing easy cash at private enterprise.  In many ways it is a social welfare system as so many industries are simply not profitable at present.  The long game is to wipe out all competitors than increase margins.  The clock is ticking on China.  It will be interesting.

 

There is a way to stand up to unfair trade practices without using a WWF style of negotiations, and a sledgehammer on your opponents. Some nations react well to this approach. Most do not. Especially a superpower like China. They do not like being dictated to, and that is at least part of the reason they have not agreed to terms. So far, Xi has outsmarted Trump every step of the way. It is not hard to do that when you outclass your adversary by 80 IQ points, and many years of experience. And you know what else? Xi actually reads his briefs, and listens to his advisors. Big difference. He is in a whole different class, than the neophyte bully, who cannot make a deal to save his life.

[Scott]

A post with a racial slur has been reported and removed.

 

[stickyrice2000]

Just change Khao San into China Town 2.  ????????

[drbeach]

On 8/6/2019 at 6:31 PM, BritManToo said:

Vietnam and Cambodia is full of them.

Hostels everywhere you go.

True. Except in Sihanoukville, where they are being pushed out by the Chinese. Siem Reap is still full of backpackers but gradually being displaced by middle class package tourists and independent tourists who prefer to stay in nicer accommodation.

[drbeach]

On 8/10/2019 at 1:37 PM, usviphotography said:

 

There are 1.3 billion people in China and the numbers of people entering the middle class have exploded over the past decade. That Chinese will constitute the largest group of tourists to visit Thailand is an inevitability. TAT didn't have to "do" anything to make this happen. It is a natural outgrowth of China's rise to world power status. 10 years from now, middle class Vietnamese will probably be visiting Thailand in significant numbers too. 

They already are. Despite being poorer than Thailand on average, they are visiting in larger numbers than Thais heading in the opposite direction.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, drbeach said:

True. Except in Sihanoukville, where they are being pushed out by the Chinese. Siem Reap is still full of backpackers but gradually being displaced by middle class package tourists and independent tourists who prefer to stay in nicer accommodation.

Hostel I stayed at in Siem Reap was completely full of backpackers this January, and they were doubling it's size at the time.

 

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, drbeach said:

They already are. Despite being poorer than Thailand on average, they are visiting in larger numbers than Thais heading in the opposite direction.

There's a lot more wealthy Chinese than there are poor Thais.

GDP China $13,500,000 Vs Thailand $500,000

GDP/person China $9,600 Vs Thailand $7,200

 

In what way do you think China is poorer than Thailand?

Appears to me on average Chinese are 33% richer than Thais.

Edited August 12, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

GDP China $13,500,000M Vs Thailand $500,000M

Corrected as I missed out the 'M'

[Solinvictus]

On 8/6/2019 at 10:08 AM, BestB said:

 Very wise decision , instead of pushing for multicultural street they now pushing it for declining number of Chinese and then maybe change to Indians ?

What if all of a sudden a neighboring country boomed! Would they ever cater to Myanmar or Vietnamese I wonder?  Far out dreaming I know..

 

I've never been to Khao San. Feel ehh about it..but if theres some imported beer there, nice!

Edited August 16, 2019 by Solinvictus