Another Brexit thread, have a look anyway.

[CG1 Blue]

38 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

52 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

"The EU insists on the backstop because it wants to keep the peace."

 

Ok, so tell me this. If we have no deal by 31st October and the UK leaves the EU, what will happen on the Irish border on 1st November? 

 

If you tell me nothing will change, then why do the EU insist on a backstop anyway? 

If you tell me the EU / Ireland will work out a solution to prevent a hard border, then why have they not made this solution public? 

 

I'm curious as to why nobody is asking the EU what they're going to do about the border on 1st November if there is no deal. 

 

QUOTE:

I'm curious as to why nobody is asking the EU what they're going to do about the border on 1st November if there is no deal. 

 

ANSWER: the EU will treat that border just the same as it treats all it's borders with not members.

Or is the UK once again - now from outside the EU - going to expect preferential treatment?

So are you saying the EU / Ireland will install a hard border on 1st November?  The very thing they say they are trying to prevent by having a backstop in the WA? 

[oldhippy]

23 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

So are you saying the EU / Ireland will install a hard border on 1st November?  The very thing they say they are trying to prevent by having a backstop in the WA? 

No.

The EU will just roll over to Mighty Bojo.

- in your dreams -

[CG1 Blue]

10 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

34 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

So are you saying the EU / Ireland will install a hard border on 1st November?  The very thing they say they are trying to prevent by having a backstop in the WA? 

No.

The EU will just roll over to Mighty Bojo.

- in your dreams -

You're not answering my question. If they don't roll over to Bojo and there is NO DEAL, what will the EU / Ireland do from 1st November about the border? 

[oldhippy]

49 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

So are you saying the EU / Ireland will install a hard border on 1st November?  The very thing they say they are trying to prevent by having a backstop in the WA? 

Are you suggesting that Bojo will use blackmail? - at the expense of many future victims......

 

[dode57k]

2 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

It would seem that I'm guilty as charged, I have read every reply in this thread, what I sometimes don't do is to check who posted what, when I read your comment I took it as a baiting post suggesting I had an ulterior motive or hidden agenda, not so, so I apologise unreservedly. Okay. ????

 

Apology accepted sir. These forums can be very strange places indeed. It's not always easy to fully understand the meaning behind some posts. ????

[UKresonant]

7 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

If only the clock could be turned back and everyone could vote on what they know NOW

If only the clock could be turned back and the EU had indicated some possibility of reform, like very very easy access, rather than free access, and so on..  perhaps the referendum would not have been needed. At least David Cameron set up a democratic vote on the subject, which the MPs agreed to have. 

 

 

[mike787]

Ah, here we go again...

[UKresonant]

23 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

Anyway, I expect a lot of stick from you Leavers, but don't bother yourselves with justifying anything I have said here. It's my personal opinion formed after watching this circus for 3 years. I am not asking anyone to change their mind

If you are a Leaver you must have a good reason to be and I will respect that.

I'm a leaver, but probably in line with the vote or 51/49, all that is needed is formulation of the way ahead, and for everyone to know what it is. It is the limbo that is causing the problem now. Perhaps we need a referendum now to see if  we expect politicians to run things for the common good. Too many politicians collecting their salaries for promoting there own little agendas (as usual), rather than concentrating on coming up with efficient equitable solutions that promote consensus, to most effectively run their country(s). What's the way ahead! (I'm UK financed as well, but if we stay in, IMO that will not resolve anything either. We would still have this perpetual worthless bickering, and the "whats the point of voting" electorate attitudes).

[david555]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

So are you saying the EU / Ireland will install a hard border on 1st November?  The very thing they say they are trying to prevent by having a backstop in the WA? 

("EU / Ireland will install a hard border " )

 

 

Funny suggestion …. : when they would do that they should take a few meters up direction from  N.I. grounds ….. so very quick the U.K shall start putting their  border on correct place .... for not loosing dear territory ...????  So E.U. side would not be the only one ….(wink...)

[david555]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You're not answering my question. If they don't roll over to Bojo and there is NO DEAL, what will the EU / Ireland do from 1st November about the border? 

Just replace the " if " in to " when " in your question , that is more accurate  to happen….

Edited August 7, 2019 by david555

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Are you suggesting that Bojo will use blackmail? - at the expense of many future victims......

 

Still avoiding the question. What will the EU / Ireland do with the border on Nov 1st if there is no deal? 

[CG1 Blue]

14 minutes ago, david555 said:

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You're not answering my question. If they don't roll over to Bojo and there is NO DEAL, what will the EU / Ireland do from 1st November about the border? 

Just replace the " if " in to " when " in your question , that is more accurate  to happen….

Ok, let's say "when" then. So can you answer the question? 

 

What I'm suggesting is that the backstop is not in the WA because the EU are concerned about a hard border.  The backstop is in the WA so that they can retain control over the UK indefinitely. Because if we leave with no deal on 31st Oct, the EU will miraculously find a solution to the border issue. 

 

Or do you think the EU will start building border infrastructure on 1st November? 

[Golden Triangle]

9 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Ok, let's say "when" then. So can you answer the question? 

 

What I'm suggesting is that the backstop is not in the WA because the EU are concerned about a hard border.  The backstop is in the WA so that they can retain control over the UK indefinitely. Because if we leave with no deal on 31st Oct, the EU will miraculously find a solution to the border issue. 

 

Or do you think the EU will start building border infrastructure on 1st November? 

Do you believe that to be true ? I would like to think so but find it highly unlikely, david555 poses an interesting question ????

[david555]

15 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Ok, let's say "when" then. So can you answer the question? 

 

What I'm suggesting is that the backstop is not in the WA because the EU are concerned about a hard border.  The backstop is in the WA so that they can retain control over the UK indefinitely. Because if we leave with no deal on 31st Oct, the EU will miraculously find a solution to the border issue. 

 

Or do you think the EU will start building border infrastructure on 1st November? 

"EU / Ireland will install a hard border " )

 

HERE is your answer !

 

Funny suggestion …. : when they would do that they should take a few meters up direction from  N.I. grounds ….. so very quick the U.K shall start putting their  border on correct place .... for not loosing dear territory ...????  So E.U. side would not be the only one to put a border….(wink...)

 

• Quote
• Edit

[david555]

Besides.... was U.K.'s Brexit not about "taking back control of our borders"....?  And a border in the Irish sea was absolutely not possible as it would divide the unity of U.K. ? so....a borderless U.K on that place ..?

Speaking of cornering yourself in...???? 

Edited August 8, 2019 by david555

[soalbundy]

On 8/6/2019 at 8:06 PM, vogie said:

I have told you about your analogies, they don't work.

Boris wants a deal, if the EU won't talk, what can we do, the ball is in the EUs court and not ours, unless we accept the crumbs they have thrown on the floor for us to pick up. Which he looks like refusing.

Read Der Spiegel this morning and they are saying that it's Boris who doesn't want to talk with the EU, as a no deal will benefit him politically.

[soalbundy]

There will be a no deal brexit and three months later when the damage is apparent both sides will scramble to the deal making table.

[vogie]

10 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Ok, let's say "when" then. So can you answer the question? 

 

What I'm suggesting is that the backstop is not in the WA because the EU are concerned about a hard border.  The backstop is in the WA so that they can retain control over the UK indefinitely. Because if we leave with no deal on 31st Oct, the EU will miraculously find a solution to the border issue. 

 

Or do you think the EU will start building border infrastructure on 1st November? 

Here is Michel Barnier saying that the NI issue is an invention in order to create great leverage for the EU in the next stage of trade negotiations.

[vogie]

21 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Read Der Spiegel this morning and they are saying that it's Boris who doesn't want to talk with the EU, as a no deal will benefit him politically.

Why will it benefit him politically?

The EU has said the only deal on the table is Mrs Mays failed 3 times deal, what is there to talk about if the EU won't listen to new ideas from the UK, they are as ever being intransigent.

Gove has said it is the EU that won't talk to Boris, who do you believe, well, you pays your money and you take your choice.

[stephenterry]

22 hours ago, Handsome Gardener said:

You hit the nail on the head - in approx. 20 years the vast majority of misguided uninformed old people that voted for Brexit will be dead and the newer generations can set about repairing the damage.

 

Its just a shame that the wrinklies didn't care about the people coming up behind them, presumably none of them have grandkids, and whose lives they will be damaging. 

 

When they do start to expire expect to see the levels of hatred, xenophobia and bitterness start to fall - its an old person trait.

As a generalisation, there is much truth in this opinion, albeit skewed as probably around 50% of old people would completely disagree. Also, there are generations of 'younger people' whose levels of hatred, xenophobia and bitterness hold the same views.  

 

Although I'm classified in the old-person age group, my mind is, and was, always open. I also agree that my family in England  - along with other similar tax-paying households - will be funding the antics of these right-wing lunatics for decades to come. And it's not just about another austerity scenario about to be forthcoming, it's about quality of living in a bitter divided Britain, which would be the most likely outcome of Brexit.

 

For a Tory government to repeat the mantra to honour the referendum result is one thing, but with no plan other than a no-deal, would it really be the best for Britain - or would it just be to keep the Tory party afloat to maintain power? 

 

My money is on the latter.

 

[mrmicbkktxl]

What is actually the gain for the UK with Brexit?What is the plan after Brexit?

I don't see any improvement for the UK if they leave the EU.Many British complain

about to many foreigner in UK.Will that change after Brexit?I don't think so.

UK  will kick out all Pakistani,Indians etc?They will kick out Polish people and people from

other EU countries?I don't think so.

[ThaiPauly]

13 hours ago, UKresonant said:

I'm a leaver, but probably in line with the vote or 51/49, all that is needed is formulation of the way ahead, and for everyone to know what it is. It is the limbo that is causing the problem now. Perhaps we need a referendum now to see if  we expect politicians to run things for the common good. Too many politicians collecting their salaries for promoting there own little agendas (as usual), rather than concentrating on coming up with efficient equitable solutions that promote consensus, to most effectively run their country(s). What's the way ahead! (I'm UK financed as well, but if we stay in, IMO that will not resolve anything either. We would still have this perpetual worthless bickering, and the "whats the point of voting" electorate attitudes).

A vert sensible post...leavers, remainers, we are all in the same boat now and all hope for a conclusion to this sorry afair, I know that leavers by and large are not getting what they voted for, but it is not their fault that the government have made such a balls up of it....and nobody in the UK has EVER mentioned how it affects millions of us expats living abroad (not in Europe). It's as if the UK government have wiped their hands of us, we are suffering and there is still more suffering to come...how many of us will be left when the final outcome is achieved and things return to some sort of normality is anyone's guess, Thailand could be bereft of UK farangs who just can't afford to live here anymore when the rate is 20baht to the pound,

[oldhippy]

12 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Still avoiding the question. What will the EU / Ireland do with the border on Nov 1st if there is no deal? 

I think that Brexiteers do not understand this border issue.

 

As you always complain about EU rules & regulations, you should be aware that those regulations are a cornerstone of EU policy, whether you approve of them or not.

Example:

If the UK allows hormone meat imports from the US into Britain / N Ireland, the hormone meat can go to Ireland and from there to the EU consumers.

 

Are you really expecting the EU to give up their regulations?

The EU CAN NOT give up their regulations, but that would be the exact result of having open borders between Ireland and N Ireland.

 

Is Bojo so stupid that he does not understand this? Or, much more likely, this is part of his hidden agenda.

 

 

[Surasak]

On 8/6/2019 at 8:12 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's try another example: You go to the car dealer and you tell him: I want a deal. I offer you this great deal. I will give you 10,000USD for this brand new luxury car. I want that deal.

And then you are somehow disappointed when the car dealer tells you that you can get a new small car for that money or maybe a big used car. But it's impossible that he give you the brand new sports car for 10k.

And then you walk out complaining that he is the bad guy because he didn't want to deal with you. That bad guy refused your offer. Yeah, sure!

Which is it, a brand new Luxury car, or a brand new Sports car? Make up you mind then perhaps we could maybe negotiate!

[Jonnapat]

If a 30% reduction in pension receipts ewusls an impact on living standards then I'm with you.

The nonsense of taking the UK out of the worlds largest tariff free zone and clearly not being able to replace it with anything anywhere near as good is pure nonsense and lacking any iota of common sense. 

Many of the Leave voters were fed a pack of lies which are now being more clearly understood and in any case did not vote for a No Deal Brexit. 

Like the US, the British government in now packed with hard line right wing thinking which will no doubt be detrimental to ordinary people. 

That apart I wish people would stop calling Johnson things like Bo Jo like he's some kind of cuddly toy and not the egotistical person he is in real life.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

That apart I wish people would stop calling Johnson things like Bo Jo like he's some kind of cuddly toy and not the egotistical person he is in real life.

Boris pretends to be in charge. Dominic Cummings rules the UK in the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/07/new-rebel-bid-to-halt-no-deal-brexit-amid-fury-at-pms-enforcer

Edited August 8, 2019 by OneMoreFarang

[Surasak]

On 8/6/2019 at 9:23 PM, Aforek said:

????????????

 

EU talks for three years already and you ( you ? are you Britain ? ) say no , no, no all the time

what can EU say more ? I remind you and everybody  that it's Britain who wanted to leave, in a such case, you can't discuss the conditions; if you were fired, ok, you can discuss, but not here; problem is that Britain wants to leave with everything and giving nothing ( have the cake and eat it ( or something like that, don't remember the correct expression ) 

The UK decided to leave and were willing to negotiate an agreement to that end. Mostly it was a reasonable deal but, the eu then decided to add a holding device in the shape of the Irish Backstop. Had it not been for this Backstop, the UK would at this point in time, not now be a member of the eu. This Backstop is the one thing which holds the UK to ransom, in that there is no way the UK can remove it without eu consent. Something they would never agree to, as it binds us indefinitely to ALL the eu rules. In plain language, the UK cannot ever leave. Is that fair? not in my book. It makes the eu nothing more than dictators.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Surasak

[evadgib]

48 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I think that Brexiteers do not understand this border issue.

 

As you always complain about EU rules & regulations, you should be aware that those regulations are a cornerstone of EU policy, whether you approve of them or not.

Example:

If the UK allows hormone meat imports from the US into Britain / N Ireland, the hormone meat can go to Ireland and from there to the EU consumers.

 

Are you really expecting the EU to give up their regulations?

The EU CAN NOT give up their regulations, but that would be the exact result of having open borders between Ireland and N Ireland.

 

Is Bojo so stupid that he does not understand this? Or, much more likely, this is part of his hidden agenda.

Where did the boiled horse come from?

[Surasak]

On 8/6/2019 at 9:47 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU is talking to the UK since years. They negotiated a deal.

But now Boris tells the EU: You have to drop the backstop (which both agreed to), otherwise we don't talk to you anymore.

The EU insists on the backstop because it wants to keep the peace. The EU is also happy to remove the backstop if it is not necessary because the UK stays in the custom union.

Which part is so difficult to understand for Boris? If he wants a deal then he should go to Brussel and present his sensible deal. I am sure the EU would be delighted to listen to a sensible deal from Boris. Because it would be the first time that Boris even tries to talk to them without mocking them the next day in some UK tabloid.

You are making assumptions again. The UK did not agree to the Backstop. The agreement was rejected by the UK on three separate occasions in Parliament. Do keep up!

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Boris pretends to be in charge. Dominic Cummings rules the UK in the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/07/new-rebel-bid-to-halt-no-deal-brexit-amid-fury-at-pms-enforcer