Meeting with immigration about TM30 and the latest news about the petition

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, Seismic said:

All very well having the forms online, as long as the system works. I got a new passport and am now unable to do my TM.47 online. Basically the system is broken, and to get back into the online reporting I would have to leave the country and re-enter. Before anyone comments that it is not necessary, I have had this discussion several times with Immigration and they initially claimed that I could easily continue to do online TM.47, however, they now admit that I probably need to leave and come back to 'reset' the new passport number.

That 'reset' is likely the IO at the border entering the TM.6 into your record. No idea why the current one can't be moved into a new passport, but I guess it's missing functionality in the immigration's software.

 

For old entries the  only way they could do the missing records would be to dig through fifty billion cubic meters of paper TM.6's stored somewhere in the guts of the immigration offices. Still, I don't know if the immigration offices inland could just attach your TM.6 to your record if you ask. Maybe the part they took when you entered isn't in the system and they can't because of that. Painful transitioning period.

Edited August 8, 2019 by DrTuner
Split new passport and old entries

[anchadian]

For those that have a Twitter account then follow Richard Barrow.  It doesn't make good reading.

[looplaw]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

For those that have a Twitter account then follow Richard Barrow.  It doesn't make good reading.

Then why follow it?

[Martyp]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

For those that have a Twitter account then follow Richard Barrow.  It doesn't make good reading.

This is the text from Richard Barrow’s Facebook post

 

”This evening, I attended an event at the India-Thai Chamber of Commerce to listen to a talk about TM30 and other Immigration issues affecting expats in #Thailand. Immigration officials from Chaengwattana made it clear tonight that landlords have to fill in TM30 each and every time a foreigner returns to their residence after visiting another province for more than 24 hours. Not just when they return from abroad. This is obviously bad news for all expats residing in Bangkok. I will type up a full report on my blog in the morning. In the meantime, please post as comments your own personal experiences of TM30 stating which Immigration office. I will then feature the best on my blog. Next week I’m attending another chamber of commerce event about TM30. I’ve also been invited to speak at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand. This is starting to snowball and hopefully we can put enough pressure to make some changes.”

 

 

[looplaw]

8 minutes ago, Martyp said:

This is the text from Richard Barrow’s Facebook post

 

”This evening, I attended an event at the India-Thai Chamber of Commerce to listen to a talk about TM30 and other Immigration issues affecting expats in #Thailand. Immigration officials from Chaengwattana made it clear tonight that landlords have to fill in TM30 each and every time a foreigner returns to their residence after visiting another province for more than 24 hours. Not just when they return from abroad. This is obviously bad news for all expats residing in Bangkok. I will type up a full report on my blog in the morning. In the meantime, please post as comments your own personal experiences of TM30 stating which Immigration office. I will then feature the best on my blog. Next week I’m attending another chamber of commerce event about TM30. I’ve also been invited to speak at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand. This is starting to snowball and hopefully we can put enough pressure to make some changes.”

 

 

Thank you for your report .

[rott]

Possibly that is why people follow it loopy.

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, Martyp said:

This is the text from Richard Barrow’s Facebook post

 

”...Immigration officials from Chaengwattana made it clear tonight that landlords have to fill in TM30 each and every time a foreigner returns to their residence after visiting another province for more than 24 hours...”

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act says that "The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence" has to make the TM.30 notification. Which of these three did the immigration officials mean when they said "landlords"? This is the question.

[sunnyboy2018]

12 hours ago, CRUNCHER said:

Thank you for your effort.

 

As a landlord I do a TM 30 when a tenant moves in.  After that the tenant is under no obligation to keep me informed as to his movements. How do I know if he leaves Thailand and returns?

 

Even if he does what happens in I am not in Thailand myself? I might well be traveling with limited internet access. How can a landlord reasonably be responsible after the tenant moves in?

My landlord is a foreigner in the UK. So how does he report? My condo manager/ juristc person has no knowledge of TM 30 or any such matters. Any suggestions?

[sunnyboy2018]

3 hours ago, looplaw said:

Then why follow it?

Because it contains information albeit unpalatable. 

[sunnyboy2018]

Can anybody who has used an agent to show the 800,000 confirm they were asked to show it again when they did their first 90 day report? I doubt it. I shall ask my agent her view on the matter. I imagine worst case scenario, will be that she comes with me and we deal with same IO again.

[Xavnel]

Can someone please explain to me, my situation?

Let me explain the whole situation and then my questions...  

My wife and I came to Thailand (Chiang  Mai) in November 2017, both American.

My wife has an ED Visa for Learning Thai Language.   I have no Visa as I work a Rotation Schedule outside of Thailand (35 days on / 35 days off).

I return to Thailand on Visa Exempt, on the TM-6, for Reason in Thailand, I put Vacation and Visit Wife. 

We have rented a house. My wife has a TM-30 as she must have it for her ED Visa. I had one when we was 1st in Thailand,  but was told that I did not need it as I was always coming and going, and leaving for more than a month at a time. Because of 35 days off , every days off, I go to Chiang  Mai Immigration and get an extension, or I would be overstay by 2 days. I have never been asked about the TM-30. 

Few questions:

1. Technically,  I know that I must have a TM-30,  however, have never needed it before,  if I do it now, will it then trigger them to ask me about it every time after now? I do not stay at a hotel, so 

2. Who needs to do the TM-30? My wife, nor me has the Blue or Yellow Book thing I have seen people mention... The owner of the House,  I am sure does not want to be bothered with the hassle. She has already contemplated selling the house last year, but continued to rent to us... I am sure if there is too much BS for her with this TM-30 Requirements, she will sell the house and we will have to find somewhere else to live.

3. What if I go in to Immigration,  my 1st day back to get my VE Extended? Therefore before the 24 hour window that a person must submit the TM-30,... would I then be able to get the extension without actually doing the TM-30?

 

Thanks in advance for informed replies 

 

[bwpage3]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

According to the law yes it is required. But you will not be asked to prove one was done unless you need to do something at a immigration office.

Thanks Joe.

 

[limbos]

I've been pointed out the TM30 about 5 years by Surat Thani immigration and my wife who is the 'landlord' with whom I live together, is registered since 5 years on this site. Don't think updated the page since those 5 years.
Lost interest after I visited immigration to tell them I got back from an overseas trip. They initially had no idea what I was going on about and eventually told me it was not needed.

Edited August 9, 2019 by limbos

[Martyp]

5 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act says that "The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence" has to make the TM.30 notification. Which of these three did the immigration officials mean when they said "landlords"? This is the question.

I don’t doubt that he means the owner of the condo or house. What is continually not addressed is when the landlord refuses to file and that the “possessor” is allowed to file. Since the foreigner depends on the TM30 to get an extension the entire responsibility falls on the foreigner. On top of that there is no policy and effort to enforce compliance with the landlord. There is no consequence to the landlord for not filing.

 

 I am fortunate that my landlord takes TM30’s seriously, has registered for an online account, paid the initial fine, and insists on filing herself when I report I have traveled.

[Martyp]

5 minutes ago, limbos said:

I've been pointed out the TM30 about 5 years by Surat Thani immigration and my wife who is the 'landlord' with whom I live together, is registered since 5 years on this site. Don't think updated the page since those 5 years.
Lost interest after I visited immigration to tell them I got back from an overseas trip. They initially had no idea what I was going on about and eventually told me it was not needed.

The question is what would they say today?

[ChipButty]

It's not true what they say about the French, joking apart I think you are doing a Stella job I always appreciate not criticise what people are trying to do

[iamariva1957]

My local IM (Tak) told me that if on Non O, 1 year then no need to do a 30. 

 

But if you think that the 30 is dumb... start a petition against all the rest of the ill conceived, confusing, arbitrarily, illogical, and dumb hoops. Oh and don't forget the financial ones that do nothing except make the thai bank spreadsheets look better and nothing for the families or the country as a whole that will be left behind. 

 

There is far more going... be ready for it!

[justin case]

GREAT JOB !!!!!

 

keep it up

 

I hope afterwards you will tackle other annoyances for us.

 

If you ever go to fight for some BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS for divorced farangs with children ...

 

I would gladly pay a yearly contribution for this effort and hope more people would join to support this !!!

[rumak]

18 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

But if you do abroad, yes, your landlord must report tm30 at your return.

 

If you go sleeping at your friends house, outside the province, this officer told us not to bother with reporting and paperwork....that is also against the rules, but if you think about it, who could know if you sleep in your friend’s house.

We all know that the tm30 fiasco is a big pain in the butt.  As you state for Korat,  Chiangmai is fairly similar in what they want.  BUT...  As a landlord of a few rental houses we do the FIRST reporting when a foreigner rents a house.  Our leases are for one year.   When we (landlord) asked immigration who should report if coming back from abroad they said THE TENANT.   

As for anyone thinking this is wrong and landlord should be responsible/fined  just read the above.  How in the world would we know each time the tenant leaves and returns.  There is NO ONLINE reporting for owners of a house or two.  There once was but no longer .  We go out of our way to help tenants understand how the system works and in many years have not had a problem.  IF A TENANT wanted us to be the watchdog for their comings and goings we would not agree.  Yes, we might lose a prospective tenant,

and they would lose a very nice place to live

BTW:   I applaud your work in trying to fix the tm30 mess !   

[xerostar]

17 hours ago, worgeordie said:

I think if you want to change anything to do with Immigration,

you really need to see the "Big Boss", in Bangkok,but i expect

he will be too busy, all these other immigration officers are

just following orders,and do not want to rock the boat by

putting forward any suggestions to change things. but good luck.

regards worgeordie

Unfortunately this reluctance to rock the boat seems to be a common feature of Thai culture.

Thankfully we have foreigners like the OP who are willing to speak up on our behalf.

[rumak]

16 minutes ago, xerostar said:

Unfortunately this reluctance to rock the boat seems to be a common feature of Thai culture.

Thankfully we have foreigners like the OP who are willing to speak up on our behalf.

Is "rocking the boat"  any more successful in other countries ?   Well, I guess western style prisons are more user friendly.

[crazykopite]

Thanks for all your efforts it is very much appreciated. Unfortunately the Immigration Office On Koh Samui do not have an online reporting system whereas in many other places of the Kingdom online reporting has been up and running for many years , if you live on one of the neighbouring island s it can take most of the day just to report in on your 90 day visit this is time consuming and expensive due to Ferry and Taxi costs . The other issue I need to mention is having to take an updated bankbook and letter when you do your first 90 day reporting after the renewal of the yearly extension of stay if as you say you can in future report on line how can you show your updated bankbook and letter surely on your next renewal the IO can look at your savings book and if you did not keep to the rules in that 1 year period they then could revoke your application I think that way would be much easier for all parties.

[wobalt]

My landlord is a foreigner in the UK. So how does she report? My condo manager/ juristc person has no knowledge of TM 30 or any such matters. Any suggestions?

My wife which is the owner of the house has permanent residency in Germany. Last time she visited Thailand in 2000. apps are not available here and she has no Thai sim. How can they fine get?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Checkmate842]

HI live alone with my 6 year old son, I am divorced from my Thai wife and have sole parental power from the Thai court. My ex wife refuses to change the Blue book so in accordance with Thai law she is the House Master even though the Land document has my son as the owner of the house and land no one can sell until he is 20. Thai Immigration refuse to recognise this and state that my ex, who is uncontactable and has not lived there for 4 years has to do my TM30. The only other solution given after much discussion was to get a Thai friend to say I live there and to submit a TM30. Even that has issues as they require a rental agreement and I am not willing to sign that I live there as this can be seen as falsifying an official document leaving me open to prosecution or deportation. I am sure I am not the only one in this situation.

[justin case]

14 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The problem is, that's not the way it's working in reality...

 

In reality, foreigners have to go to Immigration. Thai landlords do not.

 

So when the foreigner shows up at Immigration  for their annual extension of stay or similar and the TM30 status is not proven as correct, it's the foreigner who either pays the fine or gets refused their extension.

 

Immigration could hold the non-complying landlords responsible and fine them. But that would take the trouble of finding them, tracking them down and getting them to pay. And surely, Immigration isn't going to spend their officer time doing that, when the unfortunate foreigner is right there in front of them and in need of Immigration's cooperation.

 

you can call it by it's name :  extortion

 

 

[Suradit69]

17 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

Unbelievable. 3 teenagers at a coffee shop could code an address reporting app in an afternoon, in MULTIPLE languages. 

Probably the same three teenagers Boeing used for the 737 Max.

[crazykopite]

Anybody tell me what happens if you have a yellow house book that has your name on it as the tenant is there still a requirement to fill in a TM30 if you go away for a few days or weeks whether it be to Bangkok or one of the neighbouring countries.

[Steve Price66]

A simple solution for those who have 2nd addresses in Thailand (for work or other reasons) would be if immigration register that address when you extend or renew visa's. That way if people go back to the 2nd address, there should be no reason for anyone to report movement or get into trouble?

[albertik]

23 minutes ago, Steve Price66 said:

A simple solution for those who have 2nd addresses in Thailand (for work or other reasons) would be if immigration register that address when you extend or renew visa's. That way if people go back to the 2nd address, there should be no reason for anyone to report movement or get into trouble?

A novel idea however, I don't believe there is any provision on the TM-47 to allow for that. 

[rwill]

If they do make easy to use apps for foreigners to use make them so you don't have to register to use them.  That seems to be very problematic with them right now.  Just entering your name and passport number should allow them to find you in their system.

 

90 day reporting should be scrapped.  Foreigners should just be required to provide their permanent address once and only be required to report when it changes or when they leave the country and reenter.