Thailand based blogger Richard Barrow reveals difficulties in renewing extension of stay

[JAG]

18 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Johnathan head was an instigator of trouble, working for various western interests and reporting only one side of the news. He is extremely biased as is the BBC who hired him. I'm not surprised to see him gone.

 

He is still here isn't he? He was accused of defamation, passport seized and so on, but the charges were dropped when it came to trial.

[ThaiPauly]

On 8/10/2019 at 2:19 PM, Filipplenoir said:

That's why I didn't sign. Pointless

If everybody thought as you do nothing would ever change.

 

If you try you might if you don't you won't

 

I signed it.

[CNXexpat]

52 minutes ago, drbeach said:

I agree with you but why don't you mail in the TM30 report? Who goes in person to immigration when you can mail it in?

Mail? Do you mean online? Online it´s sometimes not possible. My wife, the landlord, also need to inform the immigration office, that I am back. 

[drbeach]

19 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Mail? Do you mean online? Online it´s sometimes not possible. My wife, the landlord, also need to inform the immigration office, that I am back. 

Mail = US terminology post = British terminology. I mean mail as in post. Mail/post it in.

[drbeach]

46 minutes ago, JAG said:

He is still here isn't he? He was accused of defamation, passport seized and so on, but the charges were dropped when it came to trial.

Yes that could be. I haven't been following him at all. Just that the other poster claimed he wasn't in Thailand anymore because the government kicked him out. As usual the knee jerk reaction of some TV members, over-exaggerating everything for effect.

[drbeach]

I mean if Head is still here, there's no way someone as benign as Barrow would be forced to leave. Unlike Head who i would imagine has created certain enemies here, Barrow has not. He's a nice guy and I can't imagine anyone saying otherwise.

[CNXexpat]

6 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Mail = US terminology post = British terminology. I mean mail as in post. Mail/post it in.

I am afraid that my mail don´t reach them or is lost in the office and I´ll have to pay the fine  when I´ll do my next 90 days report. 

[KhaoYai]

2 minutes ago, drbeach said:

I mean if Head is still here, there's no way someone as benign as Barrow would be forced to leave. Unlike Head who i would imagine has created certain enemies here, Barrow has not. He's a nice guy and I can't imagine anyone saying otherwise.

Do you know Jonathan then?  He is a true reporter - he's not afraid to report the facts no matter how precarious that may make his visa situation.  Read his reports on the new constitution and how the Thai's were stitched up by it. We live in a global world where diaspora are common place. No matter how much Thailand tries to resist that, they know very well they can't ignore it and survive - that's why people like Jonathan Head are still in Thailand and still reporting the facts.

 

Its normal in today's world - there are foreign reporters in most countries and only the most authoritarian deport them for reporting issues that may not be to their liking. Its interesting to note that the very same countries are increasingly isolated - both economically and politically. I think Thailand knows that and therefore tolerates people like Jonathan Head.  The defamation case he faced was probably their way of trying to scare him and I can tell you it did for a while.

 

I'm sure Jonathan will be amused to read your comments.

[onera1961]

I don't know who this Barrow fella is but I am sure nobody is going to deport him because he may be a small potato. How widely read is his blog? Has he ever written about the perfect trap Thailand has laid for sexpats to visits thousands of brothels fronting as bars and young girls are pimped for marriage to old creepy sexpats in those brothels? If not, he is not writing the real reason single males visit Thailand. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by onera1961

[jayboy]

Do you know Jonathan then?  He is a true reporter - he's not afraid to report the facts no matter how precarious that may make his visa situation.  Read his reports on the new constitution and how the Thai's were stitched up by it. We live in a global world where diaspora are common place. No matter how much Thailand tries to resist that, they know very well they can't ignore it and survive - that's why people like Jonathan Head are still in Thailand and still reporting the facts.
 
Its normal in today's world - there are foreign reporters in most countries and only the most authoritarian deport them for reporting issues that may not be to their liking. Its interesting to note that the very same countries are increasingly isolated - both economically and politically. I think Thailand knows that and therefore tolerates people like Jonathan Head.  The defamation case he faced was probably their way of trying to scare him and I can tell you it did for a while.
 
I'm sure Jonathan will be amused to read your comments.

I completely agree.Jonathan Head is an excellent and courageous reporter who provides depth and understanding on the Thai political and social scene. It’s true he is disliked by some Thais who cannot bear foreign scrutiny of the country’s repressive structure.

I expect the rather dim fellow to whom you responded has picked up his unhinged views from these people.




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rexall]

13 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

 <snip>

Its normal in today's world - there are foreign reporters in most countries and only the most authoritarian deport them for reporting issues that may not be to their liking. <snip>

Indeed.  And it is an interesting "social experiment" to see just how much of loss of face the current government regards being viewed by the international community as "authoritarian."  Maybe they just don't give a rat's ass, and will be one of the few modern states to regress back into being a banana republic.

[Fex Bluse]

2 hours ago, drbeach said:

What is your solution to "save face"? I don't see why that should be important in this particular case. Because if it becomes too much, foreigners will just leave the country permanently, potentially leaving immigration officers here without a job. That would surely cause a much greater "loss of face".

Before I respond with ideas, please understand that I also think FACE is stupid. Also know that I actually really don't care as I am fine. Finally, I am still thankful that people are trying to do something. I am only stating that the petition was handled poorly. It's incredibly naive. 

 

 

Summary might look something like this. 

 

Phase 1: generate general interest 

1.1 - create an overly respectful petition of interest to discuss and clarify the requirements (because they are unclear and not even finalized yet...). This petition would be advertised to expat workers, retirees and others. It would ensure that ALL affected classes of foreigners are represented. The goal is to generate enough interest to bother people who might actually be able to help.

 

1.2 - once enough interest is gathered, ask for help from prominent organizations, like the FCC, embassies (probably useless) and chambers of commerce, similar to

   1.2.1 - discuss the requirements

   1.2.2 - discuss any valid concerns, especially prominent concerns like any negative implications for business or similar. 

   1.2.3 - gently discuss early ideas for how it might be improved, based on early understanding of what the government says it aims to accomplish 

 

Phase 2: understand requirements 

2.1 - engage government through most prominent channel possible, with foreigners of influence, to make sure the government's requirements are well understood. 

 

Phase 3: confirm concerns, generate ideas

3.1 - engage foreign interests again to review and discuss the stated goals of the government. 

 

3.2 - hold town halls to generate several ideas for how the government's objectives might be better met with less stress on the valid concerns raised. 

 

Phase 4: professionally engage media 

4.1 - take out several gentle and highly respectful ads in English speaking media indicating something like the "Thailand-based Expatriates Discuss How to Better Comply with Recent Immigration Requirements". The key is to NOT to indicate a challenge to or criticism of the government. The goal is to make sure that the Thai government has a early alarm that someone will want to discuss the issues with them. 

 

Phase 5: reach out to Asian expat groups 

5.1 - The idea here is to understand if the main Asian expat groupings (Japanese, Chinese, Korean) see themselves as affected and also have interest in improvements. If not, it is important to know that the Farangs will be seen as the only ones complaining... 

 

Phase 6: engage affected Thai dwelling owners, ect. 

6.1 - the goal is to get support from people who REALLY, ACTUALLY matter to the Thai government: Thais. 

 

Phase 7: engage Thai government through Thais

7.1 - allow prominent Thais to engage professionally with Thai government in representation of the other stakeholders (Western expats, Asian expats, ect.). The Thais will know how critically important it is for the Thai government to save face. They can quietly propose to the government ideas generated for improvements and the Thai government can pretend they came up with the ideas. 

 

---

 

This advice has been provided free of charge. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Fex Bluse

[CNXexpat]

34 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I don't know who this Barrow fella is but I am sure nobody is going to deport him because he may be a small potato. How widely read is his blog? Has he ever written about the perfect trap Thailand has laid for sexpats to visits thousands of brothels fronting as bars and young girls are pimped for marriage to old creepy sexpats in those brothels? If not, he is not writing the real reason single males visit Thailand. 

That´s nonsense. For sure there are creepy sexpats, especially in Pattaya. But the majority (like me) haven´t been in a brothel or act like you described. So why should Barrow write about it?

I don´t know how you live, but if that´s your view on Thailand ("the perfect trap") and your life in Thailand, I am happy to live another life.

[joecoolfrog]

On 8/10/2019 at 5:49 AM, sukhumvitneon said:

Not a great idea to rock the boat in a place like this

Maybe so but look at the alternative. Just keep quiet and shrug it all off , mai pen rai !

How has that worked out recently for the average Thai or indeed the average expat ?

[DUNROAMIN]

20 hours ago, 9653 said:

It looks to me, that we farangs are a real thorn in the eyes of the Thai immigration.

I cant quite comprehend that we should be such an alien people to them.

Foreigners in Germany or Australia to me always had something mysterious or intriguing about them but I never felt that they deserved to be given a hard time, just because they choose to live with us.

I actually looked forward to be a foreigner in an asian country myself, when i left Australia.

I hit it spot on, when I came here, I love the Thai people.

However, somehow there is something peculiar going on with immigration.

Feels like post war east German government suppression.

I am due for my October retirement renewal. My family and me are very nervous, if I have or have not what they want.

I think I have, the 800 anyway, but the monthly income of 65 i have not.

Now do they want either, or, or both?

However, I read all the stories of Thai visa dot com, and I wonder am I not good enough to die in this country.

But i tell you one thing, if they give me a hard time, they can shove me on the plane back to Aussie, I wont have a bed to sleep in, because my bed is here, but at least I get a free hearing aid

Some times I wonder that Immigration personnel are jealous of us because many of us have the luxury of being able to have 800,000B sitting in a bank account that we don't use or 65,000 or more Barht every month for retirement, purchase a new house and land with cash, and a new car. I suspect it would take 10-15 years or more for them to acquire that sort of spare cash and assets. Just thinking!

[DrTuner]

56 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I don't know who this Barrow fella is but I am sure nobody is going to deport him because he may be a small potato. How widely read is his blog? 

I think he's one of the few major ones that people follow in twitter in matters Thailand. Probably 10-15k readers?

 

It's not how many you have though. It's how likely they are to push it viral by sharing. That's the nature of the social media beast.

[CNXexpat]

13 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Some times I wonder that Immigration personnel are jealous of us because many of us have the luxury of being able to have 800,000B sitting in a bank account that we don't use or 65,000 or more Barht every month for retirement, purchase a new house and land with cash, and a new car. I suspect it would take 10-15 years or more for them to acquire that sort of spare cash and assets. Just thinking!

555 The staff at the immigration office make so much money (not officially) that they are for sure not jealous. They think we are poor.

[lkv]

@Fex Bluse

 

Post #223. Best post I have seen in all these 16 pages.

 

All I would add is:

 

We also need to understand where it all started, and who the key architect of this TM30 enforcement is. And one name comes to mind. The watch man.

 

He is considered to be the architect of the coup and most likely, behind this TM30 enforcement nonsense / anti foreigner campaigns.

 

It was also him who decided who the Immigration head should be.

 

It would be ideal if he passed away soon, as harsh as it may sound. It would help Thailand move forward.

 

The longer he stays alive, the worse it will be. Although he most likely made sure he taught his trainee matters of national security well.

 

That's what people are up against, I feel.

Edited August 11, 2019 by lkv

[JAG]

1 hour ago, drbeach said:

I mean if Head is still here, there's no way someone as benign as Barrow would be forced to leave. Unlike Head who i would imagine has created certain enemies here, Barrow has not. He's a nice guy and I can't imagine anyone saying otherwise.

Johnathan Head and Richard Barrow fall into very different camps. Head is the accredited correspondent of a major national broadcasting organisation, with an acknowledged and respected international reputation.. As such the material he produces reflects the standards subscribed to by that organisation, and the country to which it belongs. It is not intended for consumption by the expatriate community here. Therefore he pays little heed to some of the conventions and sensitivities of some within this society. Now I wouldn't describe that as bias, even if I sometimes (you perhaps often) don't agree with what he reports; but it has left him open to various threats and attempts to apply sanctions by some who have been upset by his reporting. In international terms, those threats (15 years in jail!) serve only to underline the venality of the people reacting to his reporting. They were never realistically going to amount to much  - at most he would have been asked to leave.

 

Richard Barrow is an informal blogger, living in Thailand and writing about matters here, particularly for and about the expatriate community. Nice chap, benign, he undoubtedly is (although I must confess I now little about him, and don't follow him), He is however vulnerable to that same trait of venality, albeit from a more junior level of official. He doesn't have the same protections as Johnathan Head. For him, the hope/protection mus be that the decision to refuse him an extension probably lies with a higher level than whoever has taken umbrage with him.

Edited August 11, 2019 by JAG

[brewsterbudgen]

Richard Barrow - the Stickman for respectable expats?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tagged]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Richard Barrow - the Stickman for respectable expats?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I have enjoyed following him, but never in my mind, I have been thinking of him as controversial, or on the edge with thai authorithy. 

[Odisan]

1 hour ago, CNXexpat said:

I am afraid that my mail don´t reach them or is lost in the office and I´ll have to pay the fine  when I´ll do my next 90 days report. 

EMS it.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Lodge an application for residence permit based on marriage, wait about six months, move in and that's it. Thailand could do the same if they wanted to. They don't.

Try to do that in the Netherlands, have to learn the language first.

[jayboy]

50 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Some times I wonder that Immigration personnel are jealous of us because many of us have the luxury of being able to have 800,000B sitting in a bank account that we don't use or 65,000 or more Barht every month for retirement, purchase a new house and land with cash, and a new car. I suspect it would take 10-15 years or more for them to acquire that sort of spare cash and assets. Just thinking!

At so many levels this is an amazingly deluded post.

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Lodge an application for residence permit based on marriage, wait about six months, move in and that's it.

Eh?? Where? Certainly not in the UK.

[KiChakayan]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

Before I respond with ideas, please understand that I also think FACE is stupid. Also know that I actually really don't care as I am fine. Finally, I am still thankful that people are trying to do something. I am only stating that the petition was handled poorly. It's incredibly naive. 

 

 

Summary might look something like this. 

 

Phase 1: generate general interest 

1.1 - create an overly respectful petition of interest to discuss and clarify the requirements (because they are unclear and not even finalized yet...). This petition would be advertised to expat workers, retirees and others. It would ensure that ALL affected classes of foreigners are represented. The goal is to generate enough interest to bother people who might actually be able to help.

 

1.2 - once enough interest is gathered, ask for help from prominent organizations, like the FCC, embassies (probably useless) and chambers of commerce, similar to

   1.2.1 - discuss the requirements

   1.2.2 - discuss any valid concerns, especially prominent concerns like any negative implications for business or similar. 

   1.2.3 - gently discuss early ideas for how it might be improved, based on early understanding of what the government says it aims to accomplish 

 

Phase 2: understand requirements 

2.1 - engage government through most prominent channel possible, with foreigners of influence, to make sure the government's requirements are well understood. 

 

Phase 3: confirm concerns, generate ideas

3.1 - engage foreign interests again to review and discuss the stated goals of the government. 

 

3.2 - hold town halls to generate several ideas for how the government's objectives might be better met with less stress on the valid concerns raised. 

 

Phase 4: professionally engage media 

4.1 - take out several gentle and highly respectful ads in English speaking media indicating something like the "Thailand-based Expatriates Discuss How to Better Comply with Recent Immigration Requirements". The key is to NOT to indicate a challenge to or criticism of the government. The goal is to make sure that the Thai government has a early alarm that someone will want to discuss the issues with them. 

 

Phase 5: reach out to Asian expat groups 

5.1 - The idea here is to understand if the main Asian expat groupings (Japanese, Chinese, Korean) see themselves as affected and also have interest in improvements. If not, it is important to know that the Farangs will be seen as the only ones complaining... 

 

Phase 6: engage affected Thai dwelling owners, ect. 

6.1 - the goal is to get support from people who REALLY, ACTUALLY matter to the Thai government: Thais. 

 

Phase 7: engage Thai government through Thais

7.1 - allow prominent Thais to engage professionally with Thai government in representation of the other stakeholders (Western expats, Asian expats, ect.). The Thais will know how critically important it is for the Thai government to save face. They can quietly propose to the government ideas generated for improvements and the Thai government can pretend they came up with the ideas. 

 

---

 

This advice has been provided free of charge. 

All that will remain utterly pointless unless our embassies got involved to convey whatever message trough the appropriate diplomatic channels. Any petition, or whatever, can only be addressed to our ambassadors. The signatories should therefore be grouped by nationalities.

Once this is achieved, and only then, the case must be pushed to the western media.

Any other approach is pointless gesticulation that may well trigger retaliation in one form or another. There are countless references, here on TV, to the fragile Thai ego; I let you extrapolate.

[dcnx]

2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Before I respond with ideas, please understand that I also think FACE is stupid. Also know that I actually really don't care as I am fine. Finally, I am still thankful that people are trying to do something. I am only stating that the petition was handled poorly. It's incredibly naive. 

 

 

Summary might look something like this. 

 

Phase 1: generate general interest 

1.1 - create an overly respectful petition of interest to discuss and clarify the requirements (because they are unclear and not even finalized yet...). This petition would be advertised to expat workers, retirees and others. It would ensure that ALL affected classes of foreigners are represented. The goal is to generate enough interest to bother people who might actually be able to help.

 

1.2 - once enough interest is gathered, ask for help from prominent organizations, like the FCC, embassies (probably useless) and chambers of commerce, similar to

   1.2.1 - discuss the requirements

   1.2.2 - discuss any valid concerns, especially prominent concerns like any negative implications for business or similar. 

   1.2.3 - gently discuss early ideas for how it might be improved, based on early understanding of what the government says it aims to accomplish 

 

Phase 2: understand requirements 

2.1 - engage government through most prominent channel possible, with foreigners of influence, to make sure the government's requirements are well understood. 

 

Phase 3: confirm concerns, generate ideas

3.1 - engage foreign interests again to review and discuss the stated goals of the government. 

 

3.2 - hold town halls to generate several ideas for how the government's objectives might be better met with less stress on the valid concerns raised. 

 

Phase 4: professionally engage media 

4.1 - take out several gentle and highly respectful ads in English speaking media indicating something like the "Thailand-based Expatriates Discuss How to Better Comply with Recent Immigration Requirements". The key is to NOT to indicate a challenge to or criticism of the government. The goal is to make sure that the Thai government has a early alarm that someone will want to discuss the issues with them. 

 

Phase 5: reach out to Asian expat groups 

5.1 - The idea here is to understand if the main Asian expat groupings (Japanese, Chinese, Korean) see themselves as affected and also have interest in improvements. If not, it is important to know that the Farangs will be seen as the only ones complaining... 

 

Phase 6: engage affected Thai dwelling owners, ect. 

6.1 - the goal is to get support from people who REALLY, ACTUALLY matter to the Thai government: Thais. 

 

Phase 7: engage Thai government through Thais

7.1 - allow prominent Thais to engage professionally with Thai government in representation of the other stakeholders (Western expats, Asian expats, ect.). The Thais will know how critically important it is for the Thai government to save face. They can quietly propose to the government ideas generated for improvements and the Thai government can pretend they came up with the ideas. 

 

---

 

This advice has been provided free of charge. 

Thainess level: 99.999%

[Hans007]

On 8/10/2019 at 6:49 AM, sukhumvitneon said:

Not a great idea to rock the boat in a place like this

No...you always draw the short line in Thailand being a Farang!!! You should know that.

More and more forreigners will leave Thailand...I am sure of it. For sure if you do NOT have a Thai wife/partner.

 

I for my part do NOT  intend to stay long..neither will my Chinese GF. We are allready discussing the matter.

 

Hans

[madmen]

12 minutes ago, Hans007 said:

No...you always draw the short line in Thailand being a Farang!!! You should know that.

More and more forreigners will leave Thailand...I am sure of it. For sure if you do NOT have a Thai wife/partner.

 

I for my part do NOT  intend to stay long..neither will my Chinese GF. We are allready discussing the matter.

 

Hans

you're profile says you live in Germany and Thailand so your no expat !!

[mike787]

NOW he did it...challenged the face of the status quo...In Thailand NOT good unless you are powerful ie, Red Bull boy.  We already know what the issues are here, to put them front and center on a public forum to see...Thai retribution with consequences cometh!  Oh well.  Not my problem. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by mike787