EU's Juncker tells Britain: no-deal Brexit will hurt you the most

[transam]

10 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The topic is who will be hit most by Brexit, not by what rules the EU appoints its leaders. But if that’s what you wanna discuss, better fix your own system first, or be prepared being called out for being a hypocrite. 

No it's not, it's about a belgy boozy bloke spouting off his boozy thoughts....????

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Oh absolutely and from documents I have seen internally there's no doubt prices WILL go up especially products such as imported bacon (as much as 35% IIRC). You are right, product groups that we take for granted (such as pineapples) will be hit hard and unless the supplier can find alternative outlets it means job losses in countries such as Guatemala. This has a massive global knock-on effect.

 

Exactly, unfortunately when it was time to put the cross on the paper very little thought was given to knock-on effects, it was all going to be so easy.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

The simple answer is found in all these Brexit forums. Brexit is a only problem for remainers. 

Wrong, it is a problem for everyone, some just refuse to admit it.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, superal said:

 

At the moment who is to say who will hurt the most ?  Why should existing trade EU/UK cease ? If the EU continue with their current mood they will probably impose tariffs which will start tit for tat . The UK is making trade deals that unlike the EU way will be made quickly .   The UK is the third largest contributor to the EU union so it goes without saying that the loss of the UK funds will be significant and will have to be found by others which is another dilemma for the ostrich like EU .     

Existing trade rules should cease because the UK would get all the benefits of being in a free trade zone with none of the obligations. You don't seem to understand how the EU works. Once the UK is out of the EU, tariffs will automatically apply to the UK just as they apply to any nation that hasn't negotiated a trade agreement with the UK. If the UK does impose tariffs on EU goods then according to WTO rules it must impose the same tariffs on any nation with which it hasn't concluded a trade agreement. The same would apply to the EU. But I have yet to see any indication that the EU plans to impose additional tariffs on all the nations with which it doesn't have trade agreements? Making things up much?

As for the 10 billion euro loss to the EU budget, once again I see a Brexiter entranced by the thought of a really big number. That fact is that 10 billion Euros is a fraction of 1 percent of the German GDP alone. It ain't that big a number in the scheme of things.

[sandyf]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

No it's not, it's about a belgy boozy bloke spouting off his boozy thoughts....????

Of course that means it can't possibly be right, not something that would happen in the UK. Only the history books will know the answer.

 

In the Commons, he was jeered and heckled by both government and Tory MPs when he spoke during the key debate authorising the invasion. The press mobilised synthetic outrage, The Sun calling him a “spineless reptile that spits venom”, and a snake. There was even a special pull-out for people to throw darts at “traitors”, including Kennedy and Robin Cook.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iraq-war-brexit-deal-eu-withdrawal-charles-kennedy-liberal-democrats-a8650811.html

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Forethat said:

They aren't elected. They're appointed. And contrary to yourself I can provide evidence to support my case. 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/8/how-are-the-commission-president-and-commissioners-appointed

 

Strictly speaking, I think one of the more obvious issues when debating EU parliamentary procedures is that most people don't recognise the difference between the EU Parliament and the EU Commission. MEPs are elected. Commissionaires aren't. Savvy? 

Truncating the post to take it out of context is against the rules.

[Forethat]

24 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Truncating the post to take it out of context is against the rules.

Did I take it out of context?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Did I take it out of context?

In a word.

 

Yes.

[Forethat]

To put it simple, the idea that the average Remainer doesn't even understand the difference between MEPs and EU Commissionaires is mind-blowing, but understandable. People generally don't have a clue. But that one of them should claim that EU Commissionaires are elected...wow, that really boggles the mind. 

 

And before every remainer on here begin to craft a reply - no, the president of the Hasting Bridge Club wasn't elected either. There, I beat you to it. 

[bristolboy]

31 minutes ago, Forethat said:

To put it simple, the idea that the average Remainer doesn't even understand the difference between MEPs and EU Commissionaires is mind-blowing, but understandable. People generally don't have a clue. But that one of them should claim that EU Commissionaires are elected...wow, that really boggles the mind. 

 

And before every remainer on here begin to craft a reply - no, the president of the Hasting Bridge Club wasn't elected either. There, I beat you to it. 

And neither is the PM elected to his position by the voters in a general election

[Forethat]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Wrong, the commission puts forward the views of the council, but feel free to believe they have never been elected, after all brexiteers promote the myth that nobody in the EU has ever been elected.

They aren't elected. They're appointed. And contrary to yourself I can provide evidence to support my case. 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/8/how-are-the-commission-president-and-commissioners-appointed

 

Strictly speaking, I think one of the more obvious issues when debating EU parliamentary procedures is that most people don't recognise the difference between the EU Parliament and the EU Commission. MEPs are elected. Commissionaires aren't. Savvy? 

[Chomper Higgot]

46 minutes ago, Forethat said:

They aren't elected. They're appointed. And contrary to yourself I can provide evidence to support my case. 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/8/how-are-the-commission-president-and-commissioners-appointed

 

Strictly speaking, I think one of the more obvious issues when debating EU parliamentary procedures is that most people don't recognise the difference between the EU Parliament and the EU Commission. MEPs are elected. Commissionaires aren't. Savvy? 

We are very aware of the level and extent of ignorance amongst the British public of very many things relating to the EU and the relationship between the UK Parliament and the EU.

 

Its an ignorance that Brexit Leave campaign fostered and used to their benefit. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We are very aware of the level and extent of ignorance amongst the British public of very many things relating to the EU and the relationship between the UK Parliament and the EU.

 

Its an ignorance that Brexit Leave campaign fostered and used to their benefit. 

If I may? Ficker than us? 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We are very aware of the level and extent of ignorance amongst the British public of very many things relating to the EU and the relationship between the UK Parliament and the EU.

 

Its an ignorance that Brexit Leave campaign fostered and used to their benefit. 

Why do you keep calling people like me ignorant on this forum....?

 

How you keep getting away with it baffles me....????

[Forethat]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We are very aware of the level and extent of ignorance amongst the British public of very many things relating to the EU and the relationship between the UK Parliament and the EU.

 

Its an ignorance that Brexit Leave campaign fostered and used to their benefit. 

We being who?

The "Brexit Leave" campaign? Is that the opposite of "Stay in the EU Remain" campaign? 

[CharlieH]

Post removed, please do not omit parts of a quote to change the context or meaning.

[Forethat]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In a word.

 

Yes.

No I didn't.

But I'm not surprised the poster in question doesn't want to acknowledge that he was trying to mock someone by telling them to "feel free to believe they have never been elected". I would have been embarrassed if I had been caught with that kind of incompetence too. 

 

And in case anyone is in doubt - EU Commissionaires aren't elected. And they don't represent a political party that was elected. And they have SERIOUS power.

[Forethat]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Wrong, the commission puts forward the views of the council, but feel free to believe they have never been elected, after all brexiteers promote the myth that nobody in the EU has ever been elected.

Let's dissect this nonsense post.

1. "The commission puts forward the views of the the council"  Rubbish, nonsense and hogwash. The commission puts forward its own view. On the matter of EU legislation, the Commission proposes legislation in which case it is dealt with by the council and the parliament.

2. "but feel free to believe they have never been elected" Rubbish, nonsense and complete bull sh**. The EU commissionaires are not elected. You simply don't know what you're talking about. Most likely you're now thinking "<deleted>, they AREN'T elected"

3. "after all brexiteers promote the myth that nobody in the EU has ever been elected" I'm actually interested in seeing an example of this because I've never seen a Brexiteer claim that "nobody in the EU has ever been elected". 

 

There's actually NOTHING in your post that isn't absolute bull. It's all bull. Not one single word correct. 

[candide]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

Or you could recalculate EU GDP and growth with the UK contribution to these removed from the EU figures (so that EU GDP and growth drops immediately in any case). Numbers still poor for the UK but become actually worse than you say for the EU plus there would be some UK export take-ups elsewhere.

No. The figures I indicated were calculated on the basis of EU 27.

[Joinaman]

On 8/11/2019 at 12:12 PM, Bluespunk said:

Then the uk will be responsible for the consequences of not honouring the deal they negotiated. 

 

Regarding any future trade deal, I’m sure Eire will ensure that the damage the british have wilfully inflicted upon The Good Friday Agreement is repaired. 

would be good if you could show us where in the GFA it states borders or anything, other than allowing free movement, subject to normal security issues, just like in any other country

Or are you looking forward to the return of the idiots and murderers ?

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Joinaman said:

would be good if you could show us where in the GFA it states borders or anything, other than allowing free movement, subject to normal security issues, just like in any other country

Or are you looking forward to the return of the idiots and murderers ?

The effects of brexit with no deal may lead to that. Which is why the govt of Eire has from the day of the referendum result been working towards avoiding that. 

 

The backstop is the result. 

[Joinaman]

15 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah, the brits and their assumptions about the Irish. 

remind us again how much the Southern Irish are in debt to the EU? They didn't even have decent roads till they went cap in hand to borrow money from them, then the typically went mad and almost went bankrupt, building housing estates that nobody wanted or could afford

How may years before they can pay these debts off. even worse than the Greeks and other countries

Assumptions ?? You mean we assume you want to start blowing up people again just cos you don't get your way in everything. but dont worry, you can keep smuggling drugs, kneecapping people , that wont change will it ? 

 

 

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

Let's dissect this nonsense post.

1. "The commission puts forward the views of the the council"  Rubbish, nonsense and hogwash. The commission puts forward its own view. On the matter of EU legislation, the Commission proposes legislation in which case it is dealt with by the council and the parliament.

2. "but feel free to believe they have never been elected" Rubbish, nonsense and complete bull sh**. The EU commissionaires are not elected. You simply don't know what you're talking about. Most likely you're now thinking "<deleted>, they AREN'T elected"

3. "after all brexiteers promote the myth that nobody in the EU has ever been elected" I'm actually interested in seeing an example of this because I've never seen a Brexiteer claim that "nobody in the EU has ever been elected". 

 

There's actually NOTHING in your post that isn't absolute bull. It's all bull. Not one single word correct. 

This is an oversimplistic and biased view. Right, the Commission proposes laws. However the council sets the agenda. On each issue, the European Council can ask the Commission to make a proposal to address it. After the proposal is made, the Council must vote to approve it.

In short, the Council defines the subject and corrects the copy.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Wrong, it is a problem for everyone, some just refuse to admit it.

I speak as a leaver. So I am right.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, Joinaman said:

remind us again how much the Southern Irish are in debt to the EU? They didn't even have decent roads till they went cap in hand to borrow money from them, then the typically went mad and almost went bankrupt, building housing estates that nobody wanted or could afford

How may years before they can pay these debts off. even worse than the Greeks and other countries

Assumptions ?? You mean we assume you want to start blowing up people again just cos you don't get your way in everything. but dont worry, you can keep smuggling drugs, kneecapping people , that wont change will it ? 

 

 

 

Me? Why would I want a return to violence. I saw the consequences of it. 

 

I also experienced first hand the types of prejudice you are puking up right now. 

 

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, Forethat said:

They aren't elected. They're appointed. And contrary to yourself I can provide evidence to support my case. 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/8/how-are-the-commission-president-and-commissioners-appointed

 

Strictly speaking, I think one of the more obvious issues when debating EU parliamentary procedures is that most people don't recognise the difference between the EU Parliament and the EU Commission. MEPs are elected. Commissionaires aren't. Savvy? 

I see your problem now, you cannot tell the difference between the council and the commission.

[Joinaman]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

Last time I suggested this ... well never mind. I reckon in a few years time even the republican Irish might see this idea in a better light after they realise what's going on.

yup

but how are they gunna repay the 865 billion that they owe the EU ?

[nauseus]

41 minutes ago, candide said:

No. The figures I indicated were calculated on the basis of EU 27.

Well, in that case please accept my apologies. 

[Joinaman]

21 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Hyperbole on stream today.

 

The uk govt was present and took part in negotiations. 

 

Shame the uk govt cannot be trusted to honour deals they negotiate. 

can you show us exactly what the deal proposed ?

how this would effect us now, and in the future, at what cost, please include the deals agreed in the Lisbon Treaty wont you ?

You keep telling the leavers they dont know what they voted for, so show us what the remainers voted for , please

been waiting, long long time for someone to give us the full facts, on both leaving and remaining, but see,s its all talk , opinion, but no facts, as usual 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, Joinaman said:

can you show us exactly what the deal proposed ?

how this would effect us now, and in the future, at what cost, please include the deals agreed in the Lisbon Treaty wont you ?

You keep telling the leavers they dont know what they voted for, so show us what the remainers voted for , please

been waiting, long long time for someone to give us the full facts, on both leaving and remaining, but see,s its all talk , opinion, but no facts, as usual 

The govt of Eire was happy with the result of the negotiations that the british representatives took part in.

 

The Good Friday Agreement is protected by that deal. 

 

Where did I tell leavers they don’t know what they voted for?