EU's Juncker tells Britain: no-deal Brexit will hurt you the most

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Fair enough to not want to be a part of the E.U. anymore. 

 

My post was about elected/appointed. 

 

Both, the E.U. and the U.K.,are confronted with the same situations and the citizens have no really problems with it. 

 

It is my personal belief that the U.K. has a problem to be part of a group, where they are not automatically the leader. 

 

Germany and even France aspire for this function in the E.U..

 

The history of Great Britain is significant. 

 

Oppose to us Belgians, you have always been leaders, and you want to maintain/reinstore this. 

 

"I am British" is something I still hear,

supposing to be of significant importance. 

 

I suppose it is for the one who express it. 

 

 

 

I think you missed the point of my post, but never mind.????

[luckyluke]

Just now, transam said:

Nonesense, in fact that could be said for an EU country who tried twice to rule the EU by force and has found another way....

Why nonsense? 

You are right, Germany tried it in different ways and seems to obtain it now in a peaceful way. 

 

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think you missed the point of my post, but never mind.

More than plausible.

 

But if you don't want to expand on it, fair enough. 

 

After all it is only an opinion, just like the many I read here. 

 

Even facts are interpretable. 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Why nonsense? 

You are right, Germany tried it in different ways and seems to obtain it now in a peaceful way. 

 

Without the British....Hooray..

[CNXexpat]

15 hours ago, Loiner said:

Selling plenty of Korean cars in UK already. Watch their sales increase while Polos and AClass plummet.

Yes, but if the UK is out of the EU there is no trade contract between the UK and Korea. So the UK will take customs from Korea and Korea will take customs from the UK - and they are higher than now, especially if the Korean cars are produced in the EU. 

 

12 hours ago, Loiner said:

When the prices go up nobody will want to buy Benz or BMW.

If you really want the badge you could buy a Thai fake one. Thonburi Automotive Assembly Plant or the Rayong BMW factory will be knocking them out cheaper than EU imports.

The prices for ALL cars (except Jaguar, Bentley, McLaren, etc., they are produced in the UK) will increase. And there will be still enough people they have enough money to buy a Mercedes and BMW. Look at Thailand where the customs are much more higher than they will be in the UK.

 

15 hours ago, Forethat said:

So what you're saying is that the British need to buy cars from German car manufacturers?

I've got bittersweet news for you: the British can buy cars from someone else. But then again, the Germans can make up for that loss by selling their cars to someone else. Why not Turkey, they seem to be keen on joining the EU...

 

 

Where did you read that I am saying that the Brits have to buy German cars? I have never written something like that.

[luckyluke]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

Without the British....Hooray..

There is a French expression :

 

" Le salut est dans la fuite "

 

ruffly translated as :

 

" Salvation is in the escape "

 

On different occasions used by the French/Belgians...

Maybe in this particular situation by the British.

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

There is a French expression :

 

" Le salut est dans la fuite "

 

ruffly translated as :

 

" Salvation is in the escape "

 

On different occasions used by the French/Belgians...

 

Maybe in this particular situation by the British.

 

What a poor expression, the British don't use that one, but we have an expression which is apt to us: Better out than in.

[candide]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

There is a French expression :

 

" Le salut est dans la fuite "

 

ruffly translated as :

 

" Salvation is in the escape "

 

On different occasions used by the French/Belgians...

 

Maybe in this particular situation by the British.

 

There is also another expression: "filer à l'anglaise" which can be translated by "to take French leave". ????

[luckyluke]

Just now, vogie said:

Better out than in.

Indeed.

 

It is not always true when people say :

 

"If you can't beat them, join them"

 

Sometimes it is :

 

" If you can't beat them, leave them".

 

[vogie]

Just now, luckyluke said:

Indeed.

 

It is not always true when people say :

 

"If you can't beat them, join them"

 

Sometimes it is :

 

" If you can't beat them, leave them".

 

In Yorkshire we say 'if you can't beat them, kick them'

[CaptainNemo]

6 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Existing trade rules should cease because the UK would get all the benefits of being in a free trade zone with none of the obligations. You don't seem to understand how the EU works. Once the UK is out of the EU, tariffs will automatically apply to the UK just as they apply to any nation that hasn't negotiated a trade agreement with the UK. If the UK does impose tariffs on EU goods then according to WTO rules it must impose the same tariffs on any nation with which it hasn't concluded a trade agreement. The same would apply to the EU. But I have yet to see any indication that the EU plans to impose additional tariffs on all the nations with which it doesn't have trade agreements? Making things up much?

As for the 10 billion euro loss to the EU budget, once again I see a Brexiter entranced by the thought of a really big number. That fact is that 10 billion Euros is a fraction of 1 percent of the German GDP alone. It ain't that big a number in the scheme of things.

The public attitude of the EU officials seems to be one of deploying a "total politics" technique of sulky negotiating, and one wonders if they may end up just pushing the UK into become a zero-tariff economy. 

It seems that the EU is zealously unwilling to negotiate in any other way than to issue ultimata.  If this approach is knowingly making ultimata that the UK cannot, as an independent liberal democracy, accept, then they might be piling up their own funeral pyre if the UK ends up growing faster than them because or (or in spite of) their attitude, and thus they end up proving that the concept of the EU is the problem not the solution.

[lineofentry]

Sooner have a Mustang than a smokey German diesel anyway lol

[luckyluke]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

In Yorkshire we say 'if you can't beat them, kick them'

Efficient, however not very sport.

[CaptainNemo]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Tue 13 Aug 2019 09.28 BST   just now ...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/13/court-hears-challenge-boris-johnson-no-deal-brexit

Court hears fresh challenge to Johnson's no-deal Brexit

Hearing in Edinburgh to determine how timing of bid, backed by more than 70 MPs, could work

 

Boris Johnson is facing a new legal challenge from campaigners backed by more than 70 MPs and peers who want to stop him proroguing parliament to push through a no-deal Brexit.

The legal bid, led by Jolyon Maugham of the Good Law Project, will be placed before the court of session in Edinburgh on Tuesday morning.

 

The MPs’ aim is to get the court to rule that suspending parliament to make the UK leave the EU without a deal is “unlawful and unconstitutional”.

These are the people hurting the UK economy... trying everything they can to fight the result of the vote they were happy to have. All the fake reasons they put up are a fig leave for their refusal to accept that they are in the minority, and their response is three years of throwing every part of the establishment at fighting the will of the people regardless of how much damage they do to the UK economy, and all for what? Membership of a political bloc the UK has little in common with, and an economic bloc that can't seem to get growth to exceed inflation.

That eurogravy must taste delicious...

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

But up to 200 years ago you were part of France and Germany or whatever they called themselves in those days. Your history is part of those countries is it not, you would not be losing your identity by remaining in the EU, your history belongs to France and Germany. 

If we could have carried on by being trading neighbours everything would have stayed hunky dory, but we don't want to be part of a federal EU, not the majority of us anyway.

Even Boris is joining in...????

[CNXexpat]

41 minutes ago, CaptainNemo said:

and thus they end up proving that the concept of the EU is the problem not the solution.

Blame the WTO not the EU. If there is no trade contract, which will need years to finish, trading is always after the WTO rules. It was explained soooo often.

[metisdead]

Some baiting troll posts have been removed. 

[Jaggg88]

On 8/11/2019 at 4:02 AM, Chelseafan said:

I freely admit, I only have a basic understanding of the Irish problem so can someone explain to me what the bigger issue is? As I see it the EU are making this into a bigger issue than it really is. Surely it's something that technology can regulate ?

 

Yes absolutely, the Swiss have an electronic border with the EU. I think initially the EU saw the Irish border as a stick to beat the UK with - a negotiating tool. As far as Brexit goes nobody is an expert as it has never been done before but the facts do lean towards the EU losing more to a no deal Brexit than the UK simply because more goods flow into UK than into the EU with Germany the biggest loser. Merkel has already stated that more than 2 million German jobs rely on their exports to the UK. If the EU didn't want to sell goods to the UK then that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. These days of cheap shipping means goods are readily available from around the globe.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Jaggg88 said:

Yes absolutely, the Swiss have an electronic border with the EU. I think initially the EU saw the Irish border as a stick to beat the UK with - a negotiating tool. As far as Brexit goes nobody is an expert as it has never been done before but the facts do lean towards the EU losing more to a no deal Brexit than the UK simply because more goods flow into UK than into the EU with Germany the biggest loser. Merkel has already stated that more than 2 million German jobs rely on their exports to the UK. If the EU didn't want to sell goods to the UK then that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. These days of cheap shipping means goods are readily available from around the globe.

Maybe read up on things before explaining to others.

[Jip99]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Nobody needs to come up with anything, EU legislation and the withdrawal agreement are documented and full of facts.

Problem here is that there are some that want to impose their own interpretation of the facts.

 

 

Waffle.

[candide]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Not exactly what you said before but, yes, two related councils. The whole structure of the EU is segmented and rather prone to faults due to this, IMHO. The sheer volume of directives and regulations fired out by the EU Commission, enabled by their 33,000 civil servants, makes proper timely scrutiny of these very difficult.

 

Several British MEPs have complained that there is no time to pre read enough detail before they have to vote on specific laws in the parliament, and then, often hardly enough time to identify what which law they are actually voting on, such is the crazy pace of the process. 

It's a complex and costly exercice, and probably not always efficient. Then it should be compared with the cost, complexity, and deficiencies of a situation in which each country would make its own laws.

 

The case of Norway, for example, is quite interesting. They don't have to adopt all EU laws, except when it is necessary for trade. Yet they adopt most of them because it is more simple and less costly (and their needs are not really different from EU Member States.

 

I am also not convinced that the frequency of new laws is due to the EU. It's likely to be the same in other countries. 

[friend of siam]

left britain left europe now in thailand wasnt any problem for me rather a joy..

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, candide said:

It's a complex and costly exercice, and probably not always efficient. Then it should be compared with the cost, complexity, and deficiencies of a situation in which each country would make its own laws.

 

The case of Norway, for example, is quite interesting. They don't have to adopt all EU laws, except when it is necessary for trade. Yet they adopt most of them because it is more simple and less costly (and their needs are not really different from EU Member States.

 

I am also not convinced that the frequency of new laws is due to the EU. It's likely to be the same in other countries. 

Well, at least we finally have the conformation of where our laws are made. For the sake of cost? 

 

Oh My God. I really hope we can leave this mire.

 

Over and out. Sweet dreams.

 

Nauseus

 

[brucec64]

8 hours ago, Joinaman said:

So you say a simple border crossing like most countries have is not acceptable ?

Why ?

they show their passport and walk through, just like they do on holiday in Spain or France

What is wrong with having simple customs checks as per other countries, cos it wont effect a lot of the Irish will it ? 

They smuggled before the trouble, smuggled during the troubles, and still smuggle now 

You have an amazingly zero idea of the border situation, But I bet lack of knowledge didn't stop you from voting for Brexit!

[superal]

13 hours ago, CaptainNemo said:

The public attitude of the EU officials seems to be one of deploying a "total politics" technique of sulky negotiating, and one wonders if they may end up just pushing the UK into become a zero-tariff economy. 

It seems that the EU is zealously unwilling to negotiate in any other way than to issue ultimata.  If this approach is knowingly making ultimata that the UK cannot, as an independent liberal democracy, accept, then they might be piling up their own funeral pyre if the UK ends up growing faster than them because or (or in spite of) their attitude, and thus they end up proving that the concept of the EU is the problem not the solution.

  20 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Existing trade rules should cease because the UK would get all the benefits of being in a free trade zone with none of the obligations. You don't seem to understand how the EU works. Once the UK is out of the EU, tariffs will automatically apply to the UK just as they apply to any nation that hasn't negotiated a trade agreement with the UK. If the UK does impose tariffs on EU goods then according to WTO rules it must impose the same tariffs on any nation with which it hasn't concluded a trade agreement. The same would apply to the EU. But I have yet to see any indication that the EU plans to impose additional tariffs on all the nations with which it doesn't have trade agreements? Making things up much?

As for the 10 billion euro loss to the EU budget, once again I see a Brexiter entranced by the thought of a really big number. That fact is that 10 billion Euros is a fraction of 1 percent of the German GDP alone. It ain't that big a number in the scheme of things.

Existing EU rules on FTA will be simply copied - rolled over  to a new agreement for the UK , as per TM quote . 

Within the EU there is so much red tape and negative drawn out negotiations which are not conducive to slick business deals . The new UK governments cabinet is taking a proactive approach far removed from the staid subservient team of TM .  The UK can fight dirty if it has to and there will be some surprises yet to be revealed , no doubt . Corporation Tax has already been mentioned whereby the UK will lower the tax to the extent that the UK will become a tax haven for corporations .  Just the beginning as the rejuvenated UK pulls away from the sluggish EU .

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, superal said:

  20 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Existing trade rules should cease because the UK would get all the benefits of being in a free trade zone with none of the obligations. You don't seem to understand how the EU works. Once the UK is out of the EU, tariffs will automatically apply to the UK just as they apply to any nation that hasn't negotiated a trade agreement with the UK. If the UK does impose tariffs on EU goods then according to WTO rules it must impose the same tariffs on any nation with which it hasn't concluded a trade agreement. The same would apply to the EU. But I have yet to see any indication that the EU plans to impose additional tariffs on all the nations with which it doesn't have trade agreements? Making things up much?

As for the 10 billion euro loss to the EU budget, once again I see a Brexiter entranced by the thought of a really big number. That fact is that 10 billion Euros is a fraction of 1 percent of the German GDP alone. It ain't that big a number in the scheme of things.

Existing EU rules on FTA will be simply copied - rolled over  to a new agreement for the UK , as per TM quote . 

Within the EU there is so much red tape and negative drawn out negotiations which are not conducive to slick business deals . The new UK governments cabinet is taking a proactive approach far removed from the staid subservient team of TM .  The UK can fight dirty if it has to and there will be some surprises yet to be revealed , no doubt . Corporation Tax has already been mentioned whereby the UK will lower the tax to the extent that the UK will become a tax haven for corporations .  Just the beginning as the rejuvenated UK pulls away from the sluggish EU .

Not sure how becoming a tax haven for corporations is going to help the UK economy. It works for small countries but for an economy the size of the UK not so much. And of course, with the UK out of the EU, corporations there are going to lose their chief defender of dodgy tax arrangements. It's likely that lots of tools for evasion that they used in the past won't wash anymore.

As for trade negotations. Please. Cite an example between 2 large economies, where those negotiations went quickly? Remember how optimistic the projections were about the UK and Japan negotiating an agreement quickly. Those negotiations have gotten bogged down because the Japanese are playing a lot tougher than expected. And in negotiations, the side that's more eager for a deal is the side operating at a disadvantage. Clearly, in all these cases, it's the UK that needs it more than its negotiating partners. They're starting at zero, the UK, by virtue of the lapse of the free trade advantages offered by the EU, is starting at less than zero.

[david555]

It's gone be fun watching H.O.C. September   ( I must remember to take extra supply of chips& crackers …????)

 

Tue 13 Aug 2019 23.32 BST Tue 13 Aug 2019 23.32 BST

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/13/bercow-will-fight-to-stop-johnson-closing-parliament-for-no-deal

 

Bercow will 'fight' to stop Johnson closing parliament for no deal

Speaker insists House of Commons cannot be ‘shut down’ and will be heard

 

The House of Commons Speaker, John Bercow, has said he will “fight with every breath in my body” to stop Boris Johnson from proroguing parliament to force through a no-deal Brexit without the consent of MPs.

No-deal Brexit would be a betrayal, says Philip Hammond

 

 

Bercow, who has previously said he did not believe it would be possible to suspend parliament to force through no deal, gave his strongest signal yet he was prepared to personally intervene to stop prorogation.

Speaking at the Edinburgh festival fringe, the Speaker said he would insist on the right of parliament to continue to sit and debate. “The one thing I feel strongly about is that the House of Commons must have its way,” he said. “And if there is an attempt to circumvent, to bypass or – God forbid – to close down parliament, that is anathema to me.

 

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, transam said:

Nothing has been proven yet

Nothing like a good joke first thing in the morning.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, evadgib said:

Such sentiment never used to stop RoI citizens ripping off the NHS or claiming dole each week during  'away days'.

Obviously you see that as a significant issue in the Irish border problem.

[transam]

15 hours ago, luckyluke said:

There is a French expression :

 

" Le salut est dans la fuite "

 

ruffly translated as :

 

" Salvation is in the escape "

 

On different occasions used by the French/Belgians...

 

Maybe in this particular situation by the British.