Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[Leaver]

On 2/7/2022 at 2:18 PM, HashBrownHarry said:

Is this destined for doom like your wrong predictions for the rest of Pattaya? - lol.

 

No, but quite a few shops inside T21 are.  

[Leaver]

On 2/7/2022 at 9:38 AM, GrandPapillon said:

jesus, who is stupid enough to get into that deal? oh wait, this is Pattaya, plenty of fools ????

 

How many millions of cups of coffee, and croissants, would you have to sell before you saw a return on investment?  

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, Pheat123 said:

I am in Pattaya and bars are absolutely rammed with customers spending plenty of cash and enjoying the ladies 

 

Which bars on Walking Street did you go to?

[Pheat123]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

Which bars on Walking Street did you go to?

I haven’t visited WS for over 5 years so none 

[Pheat123]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

How are you finding the prices? Comments I get are some places are charging a lot now. 

Prices are pretty much the same as before c19 major price rises are in restaurants due to increased costs of ingredients not in bars/ladies 

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Pheat123 said:

I haven’t visited WS for over 5 years so none 

 

Walking Street is Pattaya's biggest tourist attraction and you didn't check out the bar scene there.  What about Soi 6?  Did you check out the bar scene there?

 

You said, "I am in Pattaya and bars are absolutely rammed with customers spending plenty of cash and enjoying the ladies." 

 

Could it be,  the bars in some areas of Pattaya are busy, while bars in other areas are not?  

[Pheat123]

10 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Walking Street is Pattaya's biggest tourist attraction and you didn't check out the bar scene there.  What about Soi 6?  Did you check out the bar scene there?

 

You said, "I am in Pattaya and bars are absolutely rammed with customers spending plenty of cash and enjoying the ladies." 

 

Could it be,  the bars in some areas of Pattaya are busy, while bars in other areas are not?  

The bars I went to in soi6 were rammed and full of customers and ladies

why am  I going to go to WS just to check if the bars are busy or not ?

I have not visited WS for over 5 years and have no interest I do not care if the bars are busy or not 

 

 

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, Pheat123 said:

The bars I went to in soi6 were rammed and full of customers and ladies

 

How many bars were open on Soi 6?

 

6 minutes ago, Pheat123 said:

why am  I going to go to WS just to check if the bars are busy or not ?

 

 

Because Walking Street is in Pattaya, and you said, "I am in Pattaya and bars are absolutely rammed"

 

Once again, could it be some bars in Pattaya are rammed, whilst others are quiet.  

 

10 minutes ago, Pheat123 said:

I have not visited WS for over 5 years and have no interest I do not care if the bars are busy or not 

But aren't all the bars in Pattaya rammed?  This is what you said.  ????  

[champers]

A lot of bars are doing well and more places are opening all the time. The big new area round Treetown has made up for some bar complexes closing e.g. Made In Thailand. Soi Pothole has been revitalised too.

Once restrictions relax further and more tourists come things will again improve markedly.

I believe there is a huge global pent up demand waiting for Thailand to open up before booking a stay here.

We should all be thankful for the many businesses that have survived Covid and hope they prosper in the future as a result.

Edited February 9, 2022 by champers

[HashBrownHarry]

46 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

No, but quite a few shops inside T21 are.  

So it's some individual shops now is it and not the mall itself as you mentioned?

[HashBrownHarry]

42 minutes ago, Leaver said:

How many millions of cups of coffee, and croissants, would you have to sell before you saw a return on investment?

I've also never understood the money put into some coffee shops.

 

Some have appeared to have spent millions on them and as you say it's not realistic they'll ever see a profit long term.

 

I guess it's something to do if you own the land and building but still bit of a fruitless exercise if you ask me.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, HashBrownHarry said:

So it's some individual shops now is it and not the mall itself as you mentioned?

 

I never suggested Pattaya, or T21, would fall in a hole.  There will be many vacant premises for quite some time, unless there is a correction in market rents here.  

 

There will also be more closures, as key money and leases fall due after 2 years of no profits and covid discounts expiring.    

 

My comments about T21 suffering were mainly in another thread, the thread about the big new development that is planned for the centre of Pattaya, which may, or may not, have a retail space.

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

I've also never understood the money put into some coffee shops.

 

Some have appeared to have spent millions on them and as you say it's not realistic they'll ever see a profit long term.

 

I guess it's something to do if you own the land and building but still bit of a fruitless exercise if you ask me.

 

Some large retail / fast food chains purposely accept a loss in some areas, just to be next to their competition. 

 

The idea is not to let your competition have a monopoly in one geographic location.  It can be a costly business model, but as an anchor tenant, they have a lot of bargaining power on rents, and are prepared to sign lengthy leases, so despite the actual size of the premises, it just acts as a shop front, to keep losses to a minimum, and hope the competition bleeds out.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Leaver

[Leaver]

 

If this is the company I think it is, I never went much on their pies, but I didn't mind their pasties.  I hope they can find a new owner, and production continues.  

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/wholesale-and-retail-meat-and-bakery-business-sale-440823

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

He can't he's not in Pattaya

 

You keep banging on with that, but you are incorrect.  

[scubascuba3]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

You keep banging on with that, but you are incorrect.  

Go and check walking st out then and report back with photos

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Pheat123 said:

Are you actually in Pattaya at the moment?

 

Yes.  

 

Last time I rode down Soi 6, about a week and a half ago, most of the bars were still shut.  This is why I asked how many bars were open.  I haven't had a look down Walking Street for a few weeks, but I doubt it's busy for the same reason.  

 

Whilst it's good to see "the lights on" in Tree Town, LK Metro, Soi Baukhao, and some surrounding soi, I wouldn't call the bars "rammed."

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Go and check walking st out then and report back with photos

 

Has a look on Walking Street a few weeks ago, I wouldn't call it busy, let alone, "rammed."  Would you?  

 

Maybe the definition of "rammed" for some members is when the amount of customers get close to, or equal to, the amount of staff in the bar.  ????

Edited February 9, 2022 by Leaver

[rott]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Walking Street is Pattaya's biggest tourist attraction and you didn't check out the bar scene there.  What about Soi 6?  Did you check out the bar scene there?

 

 

 

 

It's Walking Street AND the (few)  farang customers that have been for some time a tourist attraction for gawping, non-spending Indians and Chinese. By their presence the gawpers put off more farangs from going there.

 

I think you are choosing the wrong battle here Leaver, WS not been what it was for a while. 

 

Yes Indians and Chinese currently absent but they'll be back. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by rott

[kinyara]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

If this is the company I think it is, I never went much on their pies, but I didn't mind their pasties.  I hope they can find a new owner, and production continues.  

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/wholesale-and-retail-meat-and-bakery-business-sale-440823

Is Pattaya seems the epicentre of pie production in Thailand, so many choices.  My favourite is Tinnies.

[Rimmer]

Off topic baiting and bickering posts have been removed, also replies. Give it a rest will ya!!! 

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, rott said:

It's Walking Street AND the (few)  farang customers that have been for some time a tourist attraction for gawping, non-spending Indians and Chinese. By their presence the gawpers put off more farangs from going there.

 

I think you are choosing the wrong battle here Leaver, WS not been what it was for a while. 

 

I agree.  Walking Street was struggling pre covid.  

 

I have said before, without a market correction in rents, it will continue to struggle.  The Thai landlords on Walking Street have outpriced that area for tourists, and now with bigger competition from LK Metro / Soi Baukhao / Tree Town, who is going to pay Walking Street prices?  Certainly not expats, repeat foreign visitors, and as you say, not the Russians, Indians and Chinese, who just spectate.  Who's left to pay?

 

It was different many years ago when Walking Street was the "go to" place, but now other parts of Pattaya offer the same products and services, at cheaper prices.  

 

Indeed some members on this forum have said they haven't been to Walking Street for years, so why would repeat foreign visitors go to Walking Street?  It might catch out a newbie tourist for a night or two, until they learn, but that's about it.  

 

Now, I am not suggesting for one minute Walking Street will fall into a hole, never to be seen again.  What I am suggesting are vacant premises, and continued for sale and for rent signs for Walking Street.  It will not have the appearance of a thriving soi, unless there is some common sense by Thai landlords.  

 

Thai landlords may put a manager in to keep the lights on and keep the property from falling into disrepair, so it's possible all of the bars are open on Walking Street, but they will struggle to find a tenant unless there is a correction in rents, and even then, other landlords on the soi will need to adjust their rents as well, to get customers in the bars / gogo's etc spending money on the soi, and not just attracting pedestrian traffic taking photos. 

 

Maybe it's part of the plan for Thai landlords to push the market as far as they will be willing to afford, grabbing as much money as possible along the way, wreck Walking Street beyond recovery, then redevelop the land into nice water view restaurants / cafes etc, possibly with accommodation above.  I don't know what their plan is, but riding the wave of former glory is not going to get people paying 160 / 170 baht for a beer on that soi, as it wasn't pre covid.  

 

There are some great places on Walking Street.  I just hope the Thai landlords are realistic and let the soi compete with other areas.    

 

  

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, kinyara said:

Of the places I've been in The Windmill stands out as a rip-off, 60 baht test to get in and 170 baht for a bottle of beer. Pretty sure Le Pub has increased its prices, 90 baht for a beer. I suspect the Pattaya Beer Garden will be reprinting their menus ahead of re-opening.  

Le Pub I think used to be 100 baht pre Covid, so perhaps a 10 baht drop. It was some time back it was 80. Windmill  always was pricey for bottles but sure it was less than 170. I heard some high prices for bars (oops, restaurants)  too..... Might be disinclined to go to GGBs when they open if prices get too silly...... 

[Ralf001]

16 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Le Pub I think used to be 100 baht pre Covid, so perhaps a 10 baht drop. It was some time back it was 80. Windmill  always was pricey for bottles but sure it was less than 170. I heard some high prices for bars (oops, restaurants)  too..... Might be disinclined to go to GGBs when they open if prices get too silly...... 

Ahh the Windmill, last time I went in there they had a deal , tray of 10 B52 cocktails for Bt750.00.

 

Id be smashed after the  3rd tray !!

[rott]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:21 AM, Leaver said:

 

Hardly outdated.

 

Sadly, with key money and new leases falling due as covid discounts expire, many will not be able to pay.

 

How's T21 going?

 

https://www.bahtsold.com/view/premium-investment-451753

 

 

Many leases and much key money must have been due up during Covid, but I've heard no reports of discounted deals being offered, refused or deferred. 

 

Anyone know more than me.? 

[TaaSaparot]

5 hours ago, kinyara said:

Pretty sure Le Pub has increased its prices, 90 baht for a beer.

Naa, it was 90 baht for a small Leo over two years ago.

[Leaver]

On 2/9/2022 at 3:48 PM, rott said:

Many leases and much key money must have been due up during Covid, but I've heard no reports of discounted deals being offered, refused or deferred. 

 

Anyone know more than me.? 

 

Soi Pothole tenants did not receive any covid rent relief, but other tenants have.

 

The covid rent relief benefited both Thai landlord, and tenant.  It allowed those tenants that wanted to stay in the game, be able to do so, and allowed Thai landlords to have a "care taker" for their property, to make sure it did not become derelict, and fall into disrepair.  Understandably, both tenant and Thai landlord wanted to hold onto something they could both sell / rent, post covid. Thai landlords certainly didn't offer covid rent relief out of the kindness of their heart.  

 

With restrictions easing, and tourists returning, market rents will return, but Pattaya will not be back in full swing, not for quite a while after borders open.  Businesses will have full expenses to pay, including rent, yet tourists numbers may not be up enough to sustain business expenses, let alone show some profit.  

 

For many businesses, they are entering their most difficult time in covid.  

 

Unfortunately, there will be more closures.  

[TaaSaparot]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

Unfortunately, there will be more closures.  

Fortunately, there will be a lot more openings.

[Cherrytreeview]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Soi Pothole tenants did not receive any covid rent relief, but other tenants have.

 

The covid rent relief benefited both Thai landlord, and tenant.  It allowed those tenants that wanted to stay in the game, be able to do so, and allowed Thai landlords to have a "care taker" for their property, to make sure it did not become derelict, and fall into disrepair.  Understandably, both tenant and Thai landlord wanted to hold onto something they could both sell / rent, post covid. Thai landlords certainly didn't offer covid rent relief out of the kindness of their heart.  

 

With restrictions easing, and tourists returning, market rents will return, but Pattaya will not be back in full swing, not for quite a while after borders open.  Businesses will have full expenses to pay, including rent, yet tourists numbers may not be up enough to sustain business expenses, let alone show some profit.  

 

For many businesses, they are entering their most difficult time in covid.  

 

Unfortunately, there will be more closures.  

Your ignorance and factual inaccuracy never surprises me.

I know one of the bar owners on Soi Chaiapom and he got a half price discount. Others didn't.

These are things you might pick up if you either actually where in Pattaya or new some bar owners.

Your information seems to come from YouTube.

I don't believe you are in Pattaya and i don't think i'm the only one.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Cherrytreeview said:

Your ignorance and factual inaccuracy never surprises me.

I know one of the bar owners on Soi Chaiapom and he got a half price discount. Others didn't.

These are things you might pick up if you either actually where in Pattaya or new some bar owners.

Your information seems to come from YouTube.

I don't believe you are in Pattaya and i don't think i'm the only one.

 

I am in Pattaya, so you are wrong there. 

 

You are right when you say my information comes from youtube.  I posted a link some months ago to Nick Dean's youtube channel and an interview he did with Steve, from the Triangle  Bar.  I remember Steve being very emotional in that interview.  

 

During that interview, which is now a matter of public record, and you may wish to view it yourself, Steve said Soi Chaiyphum was owned by the Toyota company, and Nick Dean confirmed this, continuing on to say, basically, the property agent for Toyota said to him Toyota couldn't care less if they don't pay, go broke, and default, leading to eviction. 

 

 The Triangle Bar is the most popular bar on the soi, and this came from the owner's mouth, on youtube, and was confirmed by another bar owner.  

 

Now, either your friend, the bar owner on Soi Chaiyaphum, is full of BS, or you are full of BS, or the both of you are full of BS, or Steve from the Triangle Bar is full of BS, and Nick Dean is full of BS, or the both of them are full of BS.

 

I don't know Steve and Nick personally, but I know them to say "hello" to, that's all.  

 

So, who is telling the truth, and who is full of BS? 

 

I would say you are a troll, and you are full of BS, but if you can put forward some information, I am happy to peruse it. 

 

Until then, there are two bar owners on Soi Chaiyaphum going on the record that there were no covid discounts to bar owners on the soi.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Leaver