No-deal Brexit will be stopped, Hammond says

[chrissables]

41 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I'm sure it did to you.

Because it's a fact.

 

BBC who have hardly been impartial.........

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45112872

[NanLaew]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Utter tosh.

 

Vote.Leave told us that voting leave meant ditching all the bits we didn't like about the EU and keeping all the bits we did like.

Utter tosh.

 

The question asked was and irresolutely remains “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” You can keep all your bus-side advertising and WTO rules out of it. That all came after the fact when both sides realized to their horror that the pin has been unexpectedly pulled by that wonderful, resilient and extant entity, the UK voter.

 

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Whenever the Remain side brought up the dangers of leaving Vote.Leave merely chanted their mantra; "Project Fear, Project Fear, Project Fear......." rather than actually address the issues.

And the "dangers" that the Remain side brought up were so hugely significant and memorable that they were so easily defeated as scaremongering?

 

Remind us what they said again?

 

50 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

The Brexit referendum question was highly deficient  and most in retrospect would agree that was mostly due to the NON expectation of a "leave' majority as well as some suspicion it was deliberate on behalf of core advocates.

Yes. You snooze, you lose.

 

...and three years hence, Hammond and his few, fellow Tory slumber party Remainers still haven't woken up.

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

For those that may find my comment confusing or otherwise I made it intending to define the expectation of due diligence in the scrutiny of a "contract".  Such due diligence would include questioning the  absence of detail as much as questioning initial face value of wording.

I think you can put me down as an "otherwise" on that one. The top and bottom of it is if you don't like what is written in/or indeed not written, you don't sign it, period. But let's not get too bogged down here, the main point in question is what was not written on the referendum leaflet. There was 'leave' and there was 'remain' the British electorate had two choices to chose from, both of these choices had already been explained to the electorate in minute detail of what these choices entailed and to what the consequences would be by choosing one or the other.

The majority of the electorate voted to leave, it is only now that the people who didn't like the result of the referendum are adding their own imaginary clauses to the referendum pamphlet, it was a simple choice, do not over think it.

 

39 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

 

Those  "Leavers" that argue the "principle" of Democratic due process must be superior ignore the fact that the Brexit  Referendum  was  an advisory rather than a  binding referendum. Therefore there is  great validity in the call for a second referendum presented as a  binding confirmation either way based on the now more informed complexities and impact which go well beyond the more obvious issue with the  Irish border.

Unfortunately the UK Government is and has been hell bent on pursuing a divisive course that IMO defies genuine democratic principle to the UK population.

So be it.

 

 

 

 

Nobody as far as I know is saying that the referendum was anything other than advisory, the fact of the matter is that parliament asked for advice from the British electorate and in turn they advised parliament that they wished to leave the EU. Parliament in turn did take on board what the electorate had advised them and decided to follow the wishes of the electorate and by invoking Art50 they made it law to leave the EU as advised by our electorate, if the MPs didn't like the rules and regulations of Art50, they could have chosen not to sign it, but sign it they did, nearly to a man.

 

[alien365]

Whatever happens I'm not going to be happy. I don't want Europe controlling the UK and I detest our current crop of politicians who are happy to go against the vote of the people. Parliament clearly don't listen to the people and are therefore not fit for purpose either.

[vinny41]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Utter tosh.

 

Vote.Leave told us that voting leave meant ditching all the bits we didn't like about the EU and keeping all the bits we did like.

 

Not once was becoming just the second country, alongside Mauritania, trading on WTO terms alone mentioned!

 

Whenever the Remain side brought up the dangers of leaving Vote.Leave merely chanted their mantra; "Project Fear, Project Fear, Project Fear......." rather than actually address the issues.

David Cameron !!28 TIMES!! "Leave Single Market" (June 2016)

 

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, alien365 said:

Whatever happens I'm not going to be happy. I don't want Europe controlling the UK and I detest our current crop of politicians who are happy to go against the vote of the people. Parliament clearly don't listen to the people and are therefore not fit for purpose either.

So a hard brexit won't make you happy? How does that work?

[AGareth2]

13 hours ago, stevenl said:

Times have changed.

with all the doom re climate change we might be going back to those days

[Chazar]

Id  say LEAVE  SOONER and be done with it why waste anymore  time!

[cmarshall]

Boris the Brief and his ilk do not actually care about the backstop or the Irish border.  What they do care about is exiting the EU before the EU's new anti-tax evasion provisions come into effect on Jan. 1 exposing the tax evasions of the rich like bugs under a log.  They opposed May's deal, because they would still have been under the jurisdiction of the new EU provisions in 2020.  

 

Boris does not need to prorogue Parliament, since he can just call an election at which point Parliament no longer sits.  However, per terms of the European Union Withdrawal Act 2018, unless Parliament actively passes a bill approving withdrawal nothing at all happens in Nov. 1 whether or not Parliament is sitting.  No one expects Parliament to pass such a bill.  So, the UK is not leaving the EU anytime soon.

 

 

[alien365]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So a hard brexit won't make you happy? How does that work?

No. I don't like nor trust our own politicians. 

[alan grice]

This Hammond Bloke should stick to crashing Cars with that Chubby Chap n the Droopy Fellah.????[emoji481]


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[JonnyF]

Hammond is a disgrace. A Remainer who will campaign against his own government, in cohorts with the EU to stop any real Brexit from happening despite the electorate voting for it.

 

With him and May running things for 2 years it's no wonder we got nowhere in negotiations.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Leaving with no deal is Leaving. In fact it is the purest form of Leaving since we leave everything (customs union, single market etc.). We did not vote for BRINO, we voted to leave. The video earlier in the thread shows that WTO terms were discussed many times in 2016 in an attempt to scare people into voting Remain and it failed, the public were aware of this potential outcome and still voted to Leave.

 

You may not like it. But leaving with or without a deal is what the people voted for. You just cannot accept losing the vote and you are prepared to sideline democracy to get your own way.

"Leaving with no deal is Leaving. "

Yes, but you're turning things around. Leaving is not necessarily leaving with no deal.

"The video earlier in the thread shows that WTO terms were discussed many times"

No, the video shows WTO term were discussed once, no more, no less.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

David Cameron !!28 TIMES!! "Leave Single Market" (June 2016)

 

Teresa May says it* more times than Paul Hardcastle's n-n-n-n-nineteen! ????

 

(*'leaving on 29 March' for the nit pickers!)

[JonnyF]

37 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Leaving is not necessarily leaving with no deal.

If the choices were Remain or Leave with a deal then you would have a point.

 

However the choices were Remain or Leave so you look like someone desperately clutching at straws in an attempt to subvert the result of the (democratic) referendum that you lost.

 

[Thingamabob]

17 hours ago, jamesy9368 said:

“who are pulling the strings in Downing Street, those who are setting the strategy.” Says Hammond who is upset its not him anymore. What we are going to get is Armageddon.

 

Then voting to trigger A50 would trigger Armageddon.

Then any changes to the NI border would trigger Armageddon.

Then not having a 'transition' period would trigger Armageddon.

Then denying a 'People's Vote' would trigger Armageddon.

Then leaving the customs union would trigger Armageddon.

Then not extending A50 would trigger Armageddon.

Then electing Boris Johnson would trigger Armageddon.

Then not having an all-female national disunity remain government would trigger Armageddon.

And now no deal will trigger Armageddon.

Every time remainers lose they shift the narrative. But what never shifts is the basic truth that it's not Armageddon they're afraid of but democracy

Well said.

[nauseus]

16 hours ago, stevenl said:

Ok, let me make this real easy for you: on the ballot form, did it say 'leave and trade on WTO terms'?

Of course not. It did not say 'leave sort of but with NI effectively sawn-off, plus accept a lot of our rules for a very long time, with no say in their application and with no way out of this wonderful treaty' either.

[nauseus]

11 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You mean meaningless buzzwords like 'Unicorns'? 

John Major is a fervent remainer. The same John Major who supported us joining the disastrous exchange rate mechanism, and the same John Major who sneaked the Lisbon Treaty through without consulting the public. 

And it's too late to take back control I'm afraid. The clock is ticking. We're as good as out. 

 

P.S. I hear that fool Marcus Ball failed again in his attempt to stop Brexit by suing Boris. His pointless appeal was thrown out today. 

It was Maastricht but there should have been a referendum before that too. 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

I'm sure it did to you.

It is what Article 50 of the (EU) Lisbon Treaty dictates.  

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Of course not. It did not say 'leave sort of but with NI effectively sawn-off, plus accept a lot of our rules for a very long time, with no say in their application and with no way out of this wonderful treaty' either.

Exactly. So when someone says 'the choice was clear, leave on WTO terms', that is a blatant lie.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

If the choices were Remain or Leave with a deal then you would have a point.

 

However the choices were Remain or Leave so you look like someone desperately clutching at straws in an attempt to subvert the result of the (democratic) referendum that you lost.

 

Sorry to see that your English knowledge is lacking, and far below level of non Brits here.

[nauseus]

Just now, stevenl said:

Exactly. So when someone says 'the choice was clear, leave on WTO terms', that is a blatant lie.

You should read Article 50. All of it.

[DannyCarlton]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It was Maastricht but there should have been a referendum before that too. 

There should never have been any referendums. We elect a government to make our decisions on our behalf. There was never any need for a referendum, the government should have triggered Article 50 by parlamentary vote. That's the essence of British democracy.

[DannyCarlton]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

The question asked was and irresolutely remains “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” You can keep all your bus-side advertising and WTO rules out of it. That all came after the fact when both sides realized to their horror that the pin has been unexpectedly pulled by that wonderful, resilient and extant entity, the UK voter.

No. That all happened before the pin was pulled. As did, "Getting a preferential deal for the UK will be the easiest thing in the world" and "If we stay in the EU we will be swamped with 70 million Turks". You do realise that the term "project fear" was first coined by the remain campign referring to the brexit campaign?

[sawadee1947]

18 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

You're blaming the wrong side

Well, blame yourself. 

You want to leave. Not EU kicked you out. 

Face the reality, man. 

[DannyCarlton]

14 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

that wonderful, resilient and extant entity, the UK voter.

And extremely gulable Uk voter who fell hook line and sinker for Cambridge Analytica (Banks/Farage vote leave campaign) and Aggregate IQ (Cummings/Johnson leave campaign). Between them they sent out more than 60 million personalised messages via Facebook/Twitter targetting individual voters with Vote Leave lies.

This doesn't include The St. Petersburg Troll Factory who were also active in the leave campaign.

[vogie]

Here is Philip Hammond again explaining that leaving the EU without a deal would mean leaving on WTO terms.

[nauseus]

52 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

There should never have been any referendums. We elect a government to make our decisions on our behalf. There was never any need for a referendum, the government should have triggered Article 50 by parlamentary vote. That's the essence of British democracy.

His Remainer's Voice.

 

[Jip99]

26 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

And extremely gulable Uk voter who fell hook line and sinker for Cambridge Analytica (Banks/Farage vote leave campaign) and Aggregate IQ (Cummings/Johnson leave campaign). Between them they sent out more than 60 million personalised messages via Facebook/Twitter targetting individual voters with Vote Leave lies.

This doesn't include The St. Petersburg Troll Factory who were also active in the leave campaign.

 

 

Welcome.

 

 

Another newbie Brexit expert...

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Welcome.

 

 

Another newbie Brexit expert...

Sorry, I didn't realise that one needed to make 10k plus posts before being allowed to post in a brexit thread.

 

I'll get my coat! 555