Farmers are reluctant to stop using toxic weed killers

[kickstart]

9 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Where's all the stubble gone KS.

Forage crop or baled.

Nice looking crop.

This crop was cut by combine ,he cut the stalks at almost at ground  level ,this year being so dry the crop was not that tall,by the time it had been though the combine they was not a lot left.

Will take a closer shot  tomorrow .

The buyers a getting fussy over the moisture of the crop ,probable costing them money to bring it down to 15% to sell on.

One farmer near my was harvesting his crop I said how much a kg , first thing he said was depends on moisture he said this crop was about 25% and he will get about 6-6.50 baht/kg,lot a lot to be made on that.   

[farmerjo]

5 minutes ago, kickstart said:

This crop was cut by combine ,he cut the stalks at almost at ground  level ,this year being so dry the crop was not that tall,by the time it had been though the combine they was not a lot left.

Will take a closer shot  tomorrow .

The buyers a getting fussy over the moisture of the crop ,probable costing them money to bring it down to 15% to sell on.

One farmer near my was harvesting his crop I said how much a kg , first thing he said was depends on moisture he said this crop was about 25% and he will get about 6-6.50 baht/kg,lot a lot to be made on that.   

No worries,i could see the short stalks but not much trash thinking it might have be done with a forage harvester.

[Dumbastheycome]

On 8/17/2019 at 2:41 PM, Paul Henry said:

Facts: Chlopyriphos is an organic phosphate and is an insecticide not a weedkiller. There is no conclusive evidence that glyphosate is harmfull to mammals. Infact many years of study by many countries show this ammino acid chemical is safe.Vested interest groups have made some claims with several USA courts awarding damages to cancer victims ( Two of them self proclaimed longterm smokers.) Thailand has Not carried out any trials that I am aware of to prove one way or the other on the mammalian toxicity of glyphosate.

Yes the bipyridial paraquat is highly toxic and kills many every year. Chlopyriphos has also been banned in many countries as it builds up in the fat of animals and can then be consumed by humans, few people die directly by using it according to the label.  

No bias?

"few people die directly by using it according to the label."

A reality  in Thailand?

A slight  diversion  in your sense of  reality then. The  Notre Dame gets damaged  by  fire  and  billionares  fund(apparently) restoration.

The Amazon Jungle is  currently  being  destroyed   by fire  and  not  one  billionare   gives  a dollar  or one  F... that the  last remnants  of the lungs of the world  are  being  destroyed.

There are  many aspects  to the  perception of  importance  in reality.

 

[kickstart]

14 hours ago, farmerjo said:

No worries,i could see the short stalks but not much trash thinking it might have be done with a forage harvester.

A better photo ,this crop was drilled about a month ago .

Dr T said in another thread about rapid decompose of plant organic matter  in tropical country's ,I think this is a good example ,not a lot of the original plant left .

Walking though this crop the leaves where very sticky ,aphids where heaving a feed ,the plant will get over it ,the owner will not spray anything .  

[IsaanAussie]

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30378676

 

Wednesday's review may delay the ban on the three chemicals. The fat lady is yet to sing!

[farmerjo]

10 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30378676

 

Wednesday's review may delay the ban on the three chemicals. The fat lady is yet to sing!

Common sense may prevail yet.

The Bumjab party lead by the health minister and sidekick Mannaya have tried to rush through policy with the advice from a greeny group trying to gain more market share for their beliefs.

Now the realisation is that the plan has more holes in it than a water tank shot by a thousand bullets.

Tariff barriers,factory closures,unemployment,a strengthening baht,no suitable replacements and subsides the government can't afford.

Also take into account the waiting period,rules,regulations and costs of a changeover to organic certification which you would be lucky to see a slight shift in that direction even with the ban,especially by farmers who occupy state land.

The ban has been driven from the worlds largest trading block,the EU from the outset.

Yet they continue to allow the use of glyphosate for farming until the next REVIEW in 2023.And according to their greeny advocates plans,synthetic pesticides(fertilizer) will not be phased out until 2035.

In Thailand we are talking about only a few select crops that are legal to use these chemicals on and should continue to be allowed until the EU sets the standard.

 

       

 

[IsaanAussie]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

Common sense may prevail yet

It is not unusual that governments propose laws in the extreme to prompt public reaction. Always easier to back off a bit rather than try to increase the severity. As that article pointed out 75% of a large poll were against an immediate ban with no real alternatives. I think the government has got the message. 

Maybe they will introduce laws to ensure "trained" operators are mandatory as a first step whilst preparing for the future when alternatives are available and the world makes the transition. Have to wait for the results of Wednesday's meeting.

[farmerjo]

Yes Tuesday will be interesting.

What makes me laugh is in the BP article the Biothai director is taking a backflip now saying the ban should be delayed.

His group sat on the 4 piece committee supposedly representing the farmers interests that put forward the proposed ban to NHSC. 

What a joke.

 

[farmerjo]

Happy days.

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, farmerjo said:

Happy days.

Has it been postponed?

[IsaanAussie]

Well for the first time in many years I am going to stand up and say "Hoped so!" good outcome.

 

[Grumpy John]

What peeved me is the suddenness of the proposed ban and the lack of an alternative product at a reasonable price.  Well,  they have more time now to get it Right.......but will they? 

[IsaanAussie]

Well it appears that the fat lady has not sung yet. So the dance continues..... someone has to make "the decision".

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1808594/agriculture-ministry-in-toxic-farm-chemical-limbo

[farmerjo]

He is right by not committing to a statement.

Dammed if you do,dammed if you don't.

As long as there working on finding alternative's at a reasonable price,that is all they can do.

Not sure about the rest of Thailand,here won't be spraying till at least March so the stocks are going to take a while till exhausted.

 

[IsaanAussie]

The stocks will be used up during the "implementation" phase of any new law. Enforcement could start at an agreed stock level.

The most effective ruling is to say "until an alternative is found" which offers industry the opportunity to find it and to prove it without government direct involvement or being accused of not caring for the safety of the public. Banned but if you are careful, OK, up to you!

As long as they don't offer any old stock of agent orange, even Monsanto could make an offering.

Amazing how political agriculture can get without considering the livelihoods of farmers.

[Denim]

Sorry if this has already been asked but how long have Thai farmers been using these toxic weed killers ?

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, Denim said:

Sorry if this has already been asked but how long have Thai farmers been using these toxic weed killers ?

Good question. I have been here 20 years and round-up was here when I came. Does anyone know how long before that? From memory about 15 to 20 years before that in Australia, same here?

[farmerjo]

I'd say nearly as long as western countries.

Still it's solutions the sector is after.

Maybe the toxic believers have the answer the ag department doesn't know about?

[IsaanAussie]

Lets debunk the toxic issue, it is an overused word. Herbicides are designed so that weeds do not thrive. Is that better?

 

[Denim]

8 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Lets debunk the toxic issue, it is an overused word. Herbicides are designed so that weeds do not thrive. Is that better?

 

It does make you wonder. If they were highly toxic people would have been dying or getting seriously ill for a long time by now .

[ireckonso]

35 minutes ago, Denim said:

If they were highly toxic people would have been dying or getting seriously ill for a long time by now .

Mi wife has been a nurse at a gov hospital for 30 years, if you want to see the toxic effects of the indiscriminate and overuse of these products I suggest you go talk to some doctors at your local hospital. But hey the so called falang farmers on TV know it all, they are not toxic chemicals.

[farmerjo]

30 minutes ago, ireckonso said:

Mi wife has been a nurse at a gov hospital for 30 years, if you want to see the toxic effects of the indiscriminate and overuse of these products I suggest you go talk to some doctors at your local hospital. But hey the so called falang farmers on TV know it all, they are not toxic chemicals.

And yet in the last proper hearing,75% of farmers which use the chemicals here in Thailand voted to continue their use.

Two will be gone in six months and restricted use on the other should see hospital cases drop dramatically.

 

[Tayaout]

9 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

And yet in the last proper hearing,75% of farmers which use the chemicals here in Thailand voted to continue their use.

Two will be gone in six months and restricted use on the other should see hospital cases drop dramatically.

 

My guess is close to 100% would not care getting sick later if it means putting food on the table today. In reality they don't even understand how it can make them sick or they would use protective gear. 

[IsaanAussie]

14 minutes ago, ireckonso said:

But hey the so called falang farmers on TV know it all, they are not toxic chemicals.

I would ask you to re-read the comments of others. I doubt you will find anyone stated that these chemicals are harmless or without risk. 

[farmerjo]

9 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

I would ask you to re-read the comments of others. I doubt you will find anyone stated that these chemicals are harmless or without risk. 

It's not the 1st time you see a newbie come on,move to an area where farmers farm and complain about their environment,too much chemical,too much smoke in the air,then come up with methods that don't pertain to the climate,soil types,etc and think everyone is doing wrong although they may have invested heavily getting the feel what works right for them over many years of real accounts. 

[IsaanAussie]

Well FJ, I think most of us on this forum that have been involved in farming here have learnt that there are no easy answers. Most including me, have learnt that the conventional or organic practices of the west do not translate here in the realities of small holding, subsistance farming communities. Farm gate prices will quickly make most people realise that listening is the first step. Those who do not will soon understand what a loss is.

This issue of herbicides is really no different to so many other things in our daily lives. Antibiotics were seen as the answer only a few years ago, but the resistant bugs have taught us otherwise.

Bottom line, things need to change, but slowly slowly wooden horse!

[kickstart]

46 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

It's not the 1st time you see a newbie come on,move to an area where farmers farm and complain about their environment,too much chemical,too much smoke in the air,then come up with methods that don't pertain to the climate,soil types,etc and think everyone is doing wrong although they may have invested heavily getting the feel what works right for them over many years of real accounts. 

Good points ,like pushing s@#t up hill ,no matter what you sayin the pro lobie ,some one will criticize you .

But this world is not sustainable ,just to many people on it ,the tree huggers will be the first to complain when food prices double ,because they have had they way ,no chemicals ,no GM ,to produce our food .

Say what you like the populus want cheap food and chemicals etc will be the only way ,unless some one can think of a way to cut the world population in half .

[ireckonso]

Oh yes the old "newbie red herring" even though you know nothing about me or how long I have resided in thailand. Try a little harder next time "know it all old timer"

[IsaanAussie]

This forum has a reputation for being an honest and friendly one. We were all newbies here once. I know I had what I thought was a plan to improve farming practices here at the start as did others who had many more years of farming experience behind them than me. We all learn over time. 

[xylophone]

On 12/5/2019 at 10:47 PM, IsaanAussie said:

Lets debunk the toxic issue, it is an overused word. Herbicides are designed so that weeds do not thrive. Is that better?

 

Glyphosate is a herbicide (and registered as a pesticide I believe) and has been put on the banned products list and I agree with poster @ireckonso about overuse of such products.

Interesting reading if you want to look into the archives on the net, are the cancers, birth deformities etc in villages in South America in which glyphosate was randomly sprayed on crops, with little or no care as to spray drift.