UK PM Johnson says 39 billion pound divorce bill not due in no-deal Brexit

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, Mavideol said:

you didn't know ? Irish,  how's that sound 555

 

Thank you, that explains a great deal. Added to the fact that at least two other stanch supporters, amongst many other non Brits on these threads, demanding that the U.K should be for ever tied to this so called union,are also from your country. But don’t worry, after 31st October you will still receive E.U subsidies, however they will no longer include a donation from the British tax payer.

[Forethat]

8 hours ago, Handsome Gardener said:

Focus on the 'AGREED BY DAVID CAMERON' bit - verbal contracts are every bit legally enforceable as written. Get it now ?

 

First are the British contributions to the EU budget for 2019 and 2020, payments worth €22bn, which were agreed by David Cameron when he negotiated the EU seven-year funding programme in 2013. 

Yes, there is an agreement to pay the membership fees for 2019 and 2020. But there is NO agreement to pay the £39B which is for costs outside that fee.

 

Good heavens, am I talking a child here..?

[Handsome Gardener]

34 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

Your nonsense knows no bounds,if this/if that,clueless,keep typing obv it makes you happy ,but is there anyone that takes notice of the never ending <deleted> you pump out

  now a few clues come out at G7,but most importantly 39 billion is in the pocket of Boris,keep it BJ

 Ignorance is supremely bliss is it not?   The UK will piggy back any and all EU trade agreements made previously,  read it in the Guardian

MY nonsense knows no bounds ?????

 

Wow you couldn't make it up !

 

Still some of that was nearly legible so either you got someone to write it for you or have stopped drinking ? 

 

 

[Handsome Gardener]

10 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Yes, there is an agreement to pay the membership fees for 2019 and 2020. But there is NO agreement to pay the £39B which is for costs outside that fee.

 

Good heavens, am I talking a child here..?

I had to cut it short due to some random 3 sentence rule however it was negotiated at the same time - the £39b is for the portion of unpaid and future bills AGREED to by David Cameron - that's A....G.....R.....E......E...….D. 

 

Look at https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/29/brexit-divorce-bill-how-much-is-it-and-what-is-it-for

 

Focus on 'Whats included' and the words 'UK share' - failing that I can't help you.

 

Again - how do you think those trade deals are going to go in the absence of that AGREED payment ? You seem to be swerving that ...

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, puipuitom said:

That's why they left the UK so long outside….till 15 years after the creation of the EEC.

 

If only. If only the Bureaucrats had left the EEC alone, a trading block for the benefit of the European people. As we were conned into believing in 1975. But no, they have transformed it into the monstrosity called the E.u.

 

 

 

[damascase]

44 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

Your nonsense knows no bounds,if this/if that,clueless,keep typing obv it makes you happy ,but is there anyone that takes notice of the never ending <deleted> you pump out

  now a few clues come out at G7,but most importantly 39 billion is in the pocket of Boris,keep it BJ

 Ignorance is supremely bliss is it not?   The UK will piggy back any and all EU trade agreements made previously,  read it in the Guardian

‘The UK will piggy back any and all EU trade agreements made previously’......... ohh, now I understand what ‘taking back control’ really means: copying all those EU trade deals by which you felt shackled all these years...........

[Handsome Gardener]

9 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

If only. If only the Bureaucrats had left the EEC alone, a trading block for the benefit of the European people. As we were conned into believing in 1975. But no, they have transformed it into the monstrosity called the E.u.

 

 

 

Here you go

 

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

 

Not to mention vast areas of medical research have reached the UK shores via European labs. You'll be paying for that now

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, Forethat said:

I don't think that'll make a huge difference. To give you an idea: 2013, 19,613 UK farmers received EU subsidies at a total value of €833.3M (that's millions). The same year, 219,078 French farmers received €6,5B (that's billions) in subsidies. 

 

To be fair to the French, six and a half billion euros to subsidise there farmers so they can sell their produce to the UK sounds like a lot but, given that the subsidies for 2008-2010 were close to €11B, it's an absolute bargain.

 

It doesn't take a massive student loan to realise why EU are so keen to collect a made up divorce bill - especially since the aforementioned subsidies are likely to grow when the eurocrats in Brussels refuses to negotiate a deal with UK that would make it possible for the French farmers to actually sell their produce. A reasonable guess is that the EU subsidies to the French farmers grow well above €12B the first year post Brexit. Maybe even higher.

 

 

 I believe most of the French farmers, work the land on a small scale. And they certainly benefit from the CAP. This is not exactly the same in the U.K. where many farms are owned and operated by large companies and very rich individuals. Not surprisingly many of these operators wish for the U.K. to remain in this so called union.

 

 

[Handsome Gardener]

So lets have 98 from the brexiteers…...

 

https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/remain-eu/

 

Oh could someone tell me why the pound isn't going up (20th request)

[Scott]

Posts and replies removed.  

 

[the guest]

He really is an idiot. So you think the matter will not be brought up before the UK can engage with the EU in trade talks. It will be... "either pay up, or we walk away !"

[Forethat]

3 hours ago, Handsome Gardener said:

I had to cut it short due to some random 3 sentence rule however it was negotiated at the same time - the £39b is for the portion of unpaid and future bills AGREED to by David Cameron - that's A....G.....R.....E......E...….D. 

 

Look at https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/29/brexit-divorce-bill-how-much-is-it-and-what-is-it-for

 

Focus on 'Whats included' and the words 'UK share' - failing that I can't help you.

 

Again - how do you think those trade deals are going to go in the absence of that AGREED payment ? You seem to be swerving that ...

First of all, the £39B settlement which is part of the proposed withdrawal agreement has never been agreed. It has been PROPOSED. The P-R-O-P-O-S-E-D withdrawal agreement was voted down three times, so no it is not agreed. That's N-O-T agreed.

 

In terms of your parroting around a future EU-UK trade deal negotiation: I have no idea what the ramifications of a non payment will be and I don't plan to get involved in that debate. What I DO know for a fact is that there is no breach of contract should UK refuse to pay EU £39B (which is what you claimed). In other words, you don't know what you're talking about. In this particular case, I do. 

[Forethat]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

He really is an idiot. So you think the matter will not be brought up before the UK can engage with the EU in trade talks. It will be... "either pay up, or we walk away !"

This is what most people interpret as the telltale sign of a racketeer. "Pay up first and then we'll talk". Yeah, right... Imagine walking into a supermarket and being asked to pay £100 first and then being told exactly what you bought...

 

In an honest business agreement, this type of racketeering doesn't exist. I honestly think the UK would be prepared to pay the ransom as part of a decent withdrawal agreement, but one only has to read the existing one to realise that the EU is in the business of scamming.

[hgma]

I think that the UK deserves a fair exit, and like in a court of law, history of excellent behavior should be taken into account, we are talking about a Nation which , on its own, stood tall against the Nazi's, sacrificed hugely in human lives and destruction, hence responsible for most of us to pin down what we want, BUT..........a great part of this saga is the work of a few over rated politicians; in general the whole conservative party, they gambled the UK position away both Cameron and May, left the country with no plan, giving full house to the EU to correct and interpret what THEY demanded and look where we are now, most of the UK citizens NEVER been told there was no preparation /plan to leave, and as the saying goes " Those who forget to prepare themselves, prepare themselves to be forgotten' i sincerely hope common sense will prevail!

 

[Forethat]

1 hour ago, hgma said:

I think that the UK deserves a fair exit, and like in a court of law, history of excellent behavior should be taken into account, we are talking about a Nation which , on its own, stood tall against the Nazi's, sacrificed hugely in human lives and destruction, hence responsible for most of us to pin down what we want, BUT..........a great part of this saga is the work of a few over rated politicians; in general the whole conservative party, they gambled the UK position away both Cameron and May, left the country with no plan, giving full house to the EU to correct and interpret what THEY demanded and look where we are now, most of the UK citizens NEVER been told there was no preparation /plan to leave, and as the saying goes " Those who forget to prepare themselves, prepare themselves to be forgotten' i sincerely hope common sense will prevail!

 

I say there is far more preparation than most UK citizens believe. But then again, I'm not ringside but in the actual ring itself...

[Miami007]

20 hours ago, terryw said:

If the UK gets a reasonably good FTA with the USA then any future FTA with the EU becomes less important. Why pay for something when a rival will give you a dealfor nothing.

Does anyone believe that the USA under the current president will give a favorable deal to the UK? 

Or is it more likely that the USA will take advantage of the situation and the president can talk about his great deal for the USA?

[jastheace]

9 minutes ago, Miami007 said:

Does anyone believe that the USA under the current president will give a favorable deal to the UK? 

Or is it more likely that the USA will take advantage of the situation and the president can talk about his great deal for the USA?

I know the questions are rhetorical, Trump likes the spotlight. spot on M

[david555]

1 hour ago, Miami007 said:

Does anyone believe that the USA under the current president will give a favorable deal to the UK? 

Or is it more likely that the USA will take advantage of the situation and the president can talk about his great deal for the USA?

"The pig for sacrifice is arrived ….." is a Nigerian proverb....

Very "Trump" applicable...  ????

[Scott]

Troll posts removed.

 

[dick dasterdly]

7 hours ago, the guest said:

He really is an idiot. So you think the matter will not be brought up before the UK can engage with the EU in trade talks. It will be... "either pay up, or we walk away !"

The EU would have less of an incentive to negotiate a reasonable (for BOTH sides) trade agreement if the UK had already signed an agreement to pay an amount far above that which they legally owe.

 

Therefore it makes far more sense for the UK to save the (likely) 30 odd billion to use as a negotiating tool in the trade talks.  I never understood why May was happy to pay this 'sweetener' without anything in return!

[nickmondo]

On 8/26/2019 at 7:58 AM, flossie35 said:

He's lying again. Takes us for idiots. Which unfortunately some of us are.

 

not all of us idiots mate, just 17.4 million are idiots.

[Rookiescot]

Ultimately any talk of whether the 39 billion is agreed or not is asinine.

The EU are expecting it to be paid.

If it is not then any future trade negotiations are not going to go well. 

[Laughing Gravy]

12 hours ago, Handsome Gardener said:

We AGREE a £39b divorce bill - we then renege on that AGREED deal withholding money as an amateur bargaining chip. The EU don't play ball and the UK get to keep £30b or so - well done UK. But hang on.....

We didn't agree. The then PM Theresa May (Remainer) did which wasn't agreed by anyone else. This was for a deal which if there is no deal, then no money. She is not in the picture so that doesn't matter.

 

12 hours ago, Handsome Gardener said:

Seriously are there ANY brexiteers on here that have even been in business ?

Yes I assume lots and I imagine even more successful than you, which I am sure you will find unbelievable. If you are suggesting that you would deal in the way that TM did as PM, we will give you this amount of money and you don't have to tell us what trade deals you will give us then, I am glad I don't have your business sense.

[vogie]

35 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

not all of us idiots mate, just 17.4 million are idiots.

Hardly an intelligent post, if you don't mind me saying.

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

There is a huge misunderstanding about UK debt.

It must honor its formal commitments and it will pay them, be sure.

But there is no reason to pay now for future trade access. This is the second negotiation that can start after agreement on the first.

I agree that the UK will pay it's legal obligations, but there is no reason to talk about paying a penny more until everything has been agreed - including a trade agreement.

[evadgib]

54 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

not all of us idiots mate, just 17.4 million are idiots.

'they didn't know wot they woz voting for' is on par with 'ficker than us' and confirms any cognitive deficiency is the other way round.

[JonnyF]

31 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Ultimately any talk of whether the 39 billion is agreed or not is asinine.

The EU are expecting it to be paid.

If it is not then any future trade negotiations are not going to go well. 

I couldn't give a toss what the EU are "expecting". If the EU were expecting UK negotiators to turn up naked with a begging bowl and rainbow colored Father Christmas hats on, does that mean they should do it?

 

And 39 Billion for what exactly? A number plucked from the sky for SFA, but even if it was for a trade deal then are they really expecting us to pay for the honour of being able to purchase their goods? They have a 69 Billion trade surplus with us, so why are we paying for the trade deal?

 

I'm happy to pay the 7 Billion or so that we actually owe for future projects when we leave with a clean Brexit, assuming they hand back a portion of the assets that we have paid for in the last 40 years. Then if they want a trade deal we can talk. If not, they'll have to accept that tariffs will be put on their goods and UK consumers will start buying from elsewhere. They should remember it's a lot easier to buy than to sell and we are the net buyer and they are the net seller.

 

If EU products rocket in price due to tariffs resulting from having no trade deal, British consumers will simply stop buying them, the EU have to remember they are not the only shop in the village. The British consumer will be buying Japanese/Korean cars, Australian/Chilean wine, South American beef etc. It won't be long before the big businesses in the EU are demanding they sort out a trade deal as Germany slips into recession and the European banks continue to falter.  

[Laughing Gravy]

5 hours ago, Miami007 said:

Does anyone believe that the USA under the current president will give a favorable deal to the UK? 

Or is it more likely that the USA will take advantage of the situation and the president can talk about his great deal for the USA?

I guess these two people do but no doubt the 'Mystic Megs' among us know better.

 

"Mr Johnson told ITV: “There’s an opportunity to do a great free trade deal with the United States. The president is very gung-ho about that and so am I.

“I don’t think people realise quite how protectionist sometimes the US market can be, but what I’m saying to Donald is, you know, this is a big opportunity for both of us but we need to some movement and we need to see movement from the US side.

“They want to do it within a year, I’d love to do it within a year, but that’s a very fast timetable.”

On the Brexit divorce bill, Mr Johnson said: “If we come out without an agreement it is certainly true that the 39 billion is no longer, strictly speaking, owed.”

Mr Trump said that Britain would be able to strike a “fantastic” trade deal with the US without the “anchor” of the EU holding it back.

He said that Theresa May, the former prime minister, had “stymied” the progress of talks and said Mr Johnson was the “right man for the job”.

The president added: “We’re going to do a very big trade deal, bigger than we’ve ever had with the UK and now at some point they won’t have the obstacle, they won’t have the anchor around their ankle, because that’s what they have.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/trump-wants-trade-deal-within-year-of-brexit-says-pm-66rf6wjts

 

[bristolboy]

42 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

 

I'm happy to pay the 7 Billion or so that we actually owe for future projects when we leave with a clean Brexit, assuming they hand back a portion of the assets that we have paid for in the last 40 years. Then if they want a trade deal we can talk. If not, they'll have to accept that tariffs will be put on their goods and UK consumers will start buying from elsewhere. They should remember it's a lot easier to buy than to sell and we are the net buyer and they are the net seller.

 

 

One thing I've noticed that many Brexiters have difficulty understand is that under WTO rules, any tariffs imposed by the UK on EU goods and services will have to be equally imposed on all other trading entities not covered by a bilateral or multilateral trade agreement.

[Forethat]

35 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

One thing I've noticed that many Brexiters have difficulty understand is that under WTO rules, any tariffs imposed by the UK on EU goods and services will have to be equally imposed on all other trading entities not covered by a bilateral or multilateral trade agreement.

Similarly, one thing I have noticed that most Remainers have difficulty understand (and certainly avoid to mention) is that under WTO rules, any lower customs duty rates imposed on products traded between any two WTO trading partners and you WILL get that same low customs duty as well.