Tchooptip Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 14 hours ago, jackdd said: The hotels report you, nothing to do by you. Only if you go to a place where you are the owner / housemaster / possessor you have to report yourself. "nothing to do by you". Sure? Nonsense!???? Every time you come back home you will have to report it with the TM30 If you are not the owner your owner will have to do it for you ... if it is once or twice a week good luck! Chances are your owner will soon be fed up. But once he will start forget or will not do it anymore...YOU wil have to pay the fine(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollmann Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I have a Retirement visa and the requirements to get that is 800 000 in the bank, copy of rental agreement, copy of the house book of the property i rent, copy of the id card of the house owner and copy of the house book of the property the house owner lives in. So, pretty much showing proof that i lives permantly for one full year at a time in Thailand. Then i have to report within 24 hours any time i leaves my home and within 24 hours when i come back and to be sure everything is in order i also do my 90 days Reporting filling in my address every time. I dont dare to og anywhere now. There is no way for me to know if the temporary host filed the TM 30 within 24 hour or not. There is NO WAY to check it or anything i can do if they not did it. The TM 30 is completely out of my Control. I never move, i live permantly for many years at the same address. In the meanwhile 40 million tourist comes to thailand without any visa and they can go anywhere they want without ever have to think about the TM 30 What about making my permanent address to my DEFAULT address in the immigration system and enforce a Law to report change of permanent address instead of the TM 30, 24 hour reporing and 90 days Reporting? Anyone that agrees to that this is a better way to let the thai immigration keep track of where we that are on Retirement or marriage visa lives please press the like button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingtlger Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Time to move on to greener pastures...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdd Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, Orton Rd said: My immigration office says nothing about landlords or property owners, they have said for two years it is the foreigners responsibility to report. This is stamped on 90 day receipts as a reminder This stamp on a 90 days report is not in accordance with the law, so the IO who stampe this has no idea what he is doing (or does it wrong on purpose). Probably this stamp is supposed to go on a TM30 receipt, then "you" addresses the person who filed the last TM30 report. Depending on the circumstances this could be the foreigner, but it doesn't have to be. The person who filed the last TM30 has to report a new TM30 if the foreigner leaves Thailand and comes back. 15 minutes ago, Tchooptip said: "nothing to do by you". Sure? Nonsense!???? Every time you come back home you will have to report it with the TM30 You should also read the second line of my post, not just the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmen Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Moti24 said: f I visit my in-laws in the north east, my f-i-l will have a 160km round trip to the immigration office; he won't be able to do that, so that means I'll have to go. Before anybody tells me that I can present my TM30 at a local police office, forget it; they don't even know what day it is, half the time. Then, on return to my home, I'll have another 40km round trip to the immigration office. It ain't going to happen Online or post office. I always posted a week or so after tenants arrived for air bnb .Never once got fined. Just date the form the same date when you post it but IIm noticing farang love drama and prefer doing the actual drive to immigration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollmann Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I could think that the enforcement of the TM 30 (that they can not know if been filed or not within 24 hours) actually will make some People just sleep in their cars instead of setting themself in risk of beeing a victim of somone else violating the TM30 24 hour time limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchooptip Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said: I think far too many expats have got their knickers in a knot as I did previously when I heard all about this TM30, more paperwork, invasion of privacy etc etc etc, suffice to say, I was ready to leave, that said, I calmed down several times after reading more and more on this and visiting the immigration office on a Tuesday, an hour 20 up the road and after that visit, allowing the paranoia to disappear and letting go of my privacy issues, here in the LOS, otherwise forget it, might as well leave, but weighing up the goods Vs the bads and I am staying, well for now at least as it's pretty much a 60/40 split, LOS favour at the moment ???? Background in short: Went to immigration on a Tuesday, as I said above, an hour 20 up the road, did my 90 day reporting and spoke with the boys at immigration, I mentioned that I was going to Chiang Mai on Friday, an 11 hour drive each way and wouldn't be back until Sunday night and enquired about this ancient TM30 rule that was raising its ugly head with us expats, and asked; do I need to come back to you within 24 hours after returning to my province as the hotel would do the TM30 at Chiang Mai, his reply was; your wife the Landlord must come and report that you have returned, please get her to go online and apply for a password, so when she gets it, all future reporting can be done online so you don't have to drive all the way here, she did just that, the following Monday morning after returning from Chiang Mai, we drove to the immigration office, yeh, I was pretty knackered, and the wife did the TM30, the wife advised the IO that she applied online for the password, he had a look online and saw her request, and gave her a password, he said try that, she did that on the spot with her mobile, password didn't work, so he said he would look into it, and by Monday she had a password in her inbox, logged in, no problem, so all future TM30 reporting will be done online, e.g. we are overseas in 5 weeks, when we return we will be staying at another province for a week, and all we have to do is go online when we go back to our province....easy ! The above said, it isn't that hard, we can take it on board, give them what they want, for whatever reasons they want it and go about or merry ways, or remain angry, huff and puff, but we will only be hurting ourselves, or we could not travel domestically or move to another country, and their response would be, "up to you", just remember this, the world is changing, facial recognition is here, I mean what do you think these guys discuss at G20's, economics, or how they are slowly they are going to collect data to keep tabs on their sheep around the world....... I will also leave you with this thought, if they didn't want us here, why don't they just say, no more extensions from such and such a date, e.g. giving us all time to relocate to another country, history has shown this to be the case, I know my mum had to exit Egypt a long times ago, because everyone was told they had to get out, Greeks, Italians and the like, who had been there for a long time. Since I become senile (no) I repeat again my owner is an elderly Thai lady who went to live with her niece because the poor woman now has cancer and her niece does not care about everything she does not even answer the phone when my owner can not herself. It does not come to you how people in my situation will manage to be in order within 24 hours with the TM30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choff56 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, jacko45k said: Why bother, will you need to visit immigration up there or will somebody report your father in law to the authorities. If I go to the wife's village in Bahn Khee Kwai I have no intention of doing a TM30 there, nor when I return, as immigration will know nothing of it. Until you get stopped at a police shakedown in another province. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmartyn Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Do the Thai authoritys have the man power and money for enforcement of the "TM30" or is it a case of picking on a few foreigners in the hope others will be scared!???? It's a tall order to take on board for anyone even if the online systems worked. In the business world its all about ROI (Return on Investment). Really cannot see any true benefit for the Thai Government enforcement of the "TM30" It's going to generate massive loses!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, Tchooptip said: Since I become senile (no) I repeat again my owner is an elderly Thai lady who went to live with her niece because the poor woman now has cancer and her niece does not care about everything she does not even answer the phone when my owner can not herself. It does not come to you how people in my situation will manage to be in order within 24 hours with the TM30 In your circumstances, I would go in and advise the immigration office of your situation, if they don't want to contact the owner or the owners niece, then tell them the only option you have is to find alternative accommodation where your landlord will comply with the law. These immigration officers are not there to fine you, otherwise they would have done that to me, as I travelled to 3 provinces within the last year and didn't tell them anything, they start from scratch, i.e. you show up and they know you are one of the "good guys", if they fine you, they are C...s If they want to fine you, I would give them a copy of the legislation and ask them to show you where in the Act it says you pay the fine for the landlord for non compliance, and if your unfortunate enough to be pointed into that area which I didn't find, I would deduct the fine amount, each and every time from the rent, what's the worst case scenario, your landlord is going to kick you out, you said she is suffering from cancer and her niece doesn't give a rats, well, you have options, you can also register online as the occupier from my understanding, like I said, go in and talk to them, they will listen and guide you, their not mugs if your nice. https://web.krisdika.go.th/data/outsitedata/outsite21/file/Immigration_Act_B.E._2522.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdd Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said: If they want to fine you, I would give them a copy of the legislation and ask them to show you where in the Act it says you pay the fine for the landlord for non compliance, and if your unfortunate enough to be pointed into that area which I didn't find I recommend you start with the headline of the form which says "possessor", if you rent a place in your name you are the possessor, so you have the obligation to submit a TM30 if a foreigner stays at your place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, kevinmartyn said: It's going to generate massive loses! Something their good at ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4MyEgo Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Orton Rd said: My immigration office says nothing about landlords or property owners, they have said for two years it is the foreigners responsibility to report. This is stamped on 90 day receipts as a reminder Your talking about two separate forms, TM30 & TM47, the latter is your responsibility to do the 90 day reporting. The TM30 is the landlords, owners, and I wouldn't let any immigration officer tell me any different, i.e. the legislation translated is a bit iffy, but would ask them to point it out to me that it is the tenants responsibility to report that they have returned to their province in the absence of the landlord not doing the reporting, e.g. you cannot be fined for someone else flaunting of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 15 hours ago, pmh2009 said: Just face the truth & reality!!!!!! they do not want any foreigners here in Thailand!!! White, Brown, Black or Yellow --- they---Thailand only want for a short period!!!! foreigners who will come to spend ALL their money!!!! OK Don't cry, whine or complain!!! I am not a Thai but face facts; America, Italy, Britain with their Brexit and other EU etc.... countries do not want foreigners, rich or not!!!! Even in Brasil they killing their own true natives!!!! It is just like 1935!!! before Fascism took over!!!! We are at that stage!!! Best thing if you can't tolerate or bow your head to the new crackdowns (the laws were there except no one enforced it) go back to your home country!!! It is tiring and boring to see these whining, complaints blah blah blah !!!! Either you get with it or GO BACK to your home country where your own people, culture and laws are!!!! OKAY?????????????? When are you leaving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger70 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 15 hours ago, MartinKal said: Pmh methinks you have lost all your spirit Maybe he should drink some spirits and mellow a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likerdup1 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 The TM 30 reporting for an expat on a long term extension of stay only really becomes an issue when the expat renews the extension of stay and the address immigration has on record doesn't match with what is shown when applying for the extension. So, I'll just travel where and when I want to and when it comes time to do my extension, just to be safe, I'll go in and report that I am back in my condo etc.. etc.. a few days before I apply. Otherwise it is the LANDLORDS who are on the hook for the TM30. Or on the document "House Master" who is responsible. I've traveled to Bangkok several times and have changed condos in Pattaya during this time. I reported my condo relocation myself (because the LANDLORD didn't know what to do) and there was no problem at all even though their computer records may have shown I was in a hotel before etc.. etc.. They will NEVER be able to completely confirm the residence of all the expats and their reported addresses ... too much work and would cost them too much. Not enough man power or money to go around checking where foreigners are living all the time.. Again, as usual on this forum, too much misinformation, not enough people willing to just go to the immigration office and ask. Relying on guessing and inexperience. I have personally NEVER used an agent to take care of my Immigration business. I have done 3 retirement visas myself since 2012 living in and out of the country since then. So this TM30 business, only really impacts those who don't understand it and believe the fear mongers on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onera1961 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 16 hours ago, My 2 cents said: How to do if someone sleeps in 4 or 5 different places per week ? in different provinces as well ? As per example tonight i sleep in Bangkok, tomorrow i have a seminar, tomorrow evening i visit my company in petchabury, then one day later back in Nakhon Pathom for 1 night, then travel to my home in Nong Khai and after the weekend return to Nakhom pathum , Petchabury , Lampang, Phrao, and so on... Just pay the fine. What is the big deal. I'm thinking of stop reporting 90-day and TM 30 altogether as my friend is doing. Life is too short to worry about bureaucratic procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likerdup1 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, onera1961 said: Just pay the fine. What is the big deal. I'm thinking of stop reporting 90-day and TM 30 altogether as my friend is doing. Life is too short to worry about bureaucratic procedures. The fine only becomes an issue when you show up at immigration wanting to do something like a renewal of extension of stay etc.. so travel where you want. But before you do business with immigration submit a TM30 that matches with whatever address the documentation you are going to give them has for whatever business you need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchooptip Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, jackdd said: This stamp on a 90 days report is not in accordance with the law, so the IO who stampe this has no idea what he is doing (or does it wrong on purpose). Probably this stamp is supposed to go on a TM30 receipt, then "you" addresses the person who filed the last TM30 report. Depending on the circumstances this could be the foreigner, but it doesn't have to be. The person who filed the last TM30 has to report a new TM30 if the foreigner leaves Thailand and comes back. You should also read the second line of my post, not just the first one. Your example, If I understand well? Was to coming back from abroad, I meant coming home after a few days outside your home in Thailand. I own a Trailblazer, the owner of Chevrolet Samui had a dispute with the management in Bangkok, bad luck no more Chevrolet in Koh samui since a few months, I have to go to Surat Thani for the revisions of my car, it means one night or two in a hotel, so now back home TM 30 in 24h. But never possible to join my owner in 24 hours, so what would be your advice? I'm not bitching against the TM30, really! I have plenty of time the immigration's officeis not very far, I never complained about the 90 days report. I do it each not thinking more about than if I have to go to the super market. But I maintain that requiring it in 24 hours is a lack of absolute realism "for some cases" and this is the last of their worries. The craziest thing in this story is that if the Thai owner does not care, it's the Farang tenant who will ultimately have to pay the fine. So with all due respect, I kindly tell you, please do not take the relative ease of your case for a generality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nong Khai Man Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Well I've lived in Our ( My Wife's ) House for Over 20 Years Now, I Have Yellow Book & Pink I.D Card Stating I Live here Permanently,Haven't done a TM 30 In Years Even after Renewing My Non-Imm " O " Multi Entry Visa ( Marriage )Never Been TOLD By IO at the border that I MUST Report to Nong Khai Imm on my return here,& Have NO Intention of doing so either, And I KNOW My Wife can't pay the fine ( She Ain't Got Any Money ) Same as Me !!...555 !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puchaiyank Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 The light-bulb just went off...we all will soon need to hire Thai lawyers to walk us through the many forms and variations at different immigration offices...it will become more expedient to give the lawyer a modest retainer fee each month to take care of the ever increasing immigration demands...makes perfect sense...then the lawyer shares his good fortune with...???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBouy Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 17 hours ago, pmh2009 said: Just face the truth & reality!!!!!! they do not want any foreigners here in Thailand!!! White, Brown, Black or Yellow --- they---Thailand only want for a short period!!!! foreigners who will come to spend ALL their money!!!! OK Don't cry, whine or complain!!! I am not a Thai but face facts; America, Italy, Britain with their Brexit and other EU etc.... countries do not want foreigners, rich or not!!!! Even in Brasil they killing their own true natives!!!! It is just like 1935!!! before Fascism took over!!!! We are at that stage!!! Best thing if you can't tolerate or bow your head to the new crackdowns (the laws were there except no one enforced it) go back to your home country!!! It is tiring and boring to see these whining, complaints blah blah blah !!!! Either you get with it or GO BACK to your home country where your own people, culture and laws are!!!! OKAY?????????????? Who appointed you emporer, <deleted> off !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom158 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just did the TM30 in Korat immigration with wife. 15 min in and out. No problems. Pleasant staff and informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsve Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 18 hours ago, pmh2009 said: Just face the truth & reality!!!!!! they do not want any foreigners here in Thailand!!! White, Brown, Black or Yellow --- they---Thailand only want for a short period!!!! foreigners who will come to spend ALL their money!!!! OK Don't cry, whine or complain!!! I am not a Thai but face facts; America, Italy, Britain with their Brexit and other EU etc.... countries do not want foreigners, rich or not!!!! Even in Brasil they killing their own true natives!!!! It is just like 1935!!! before Fascism took over!!!! We are at that stage!!! Best thing if you can't tolerate or bow your head to the new crackdowns (the laws were there except no one enforced it) go back to your home country!!! It is tiring and boring to see these whining, complaints blah blah blah !!!! Either you get with it or GO BACK to your home country where your own people, culture and laws are!!!! OKAY?????????????? Some of us who complains have lived in LOS for several years and have families here. Is it not easier for you to stop reading what annoyed you then for us to move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, tom158 said: Just did the TM30 in Korat immigration with wife. 15 min in and out. No problems. Pleasant staff and informative. Well done, Tom with 10 posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, choff56 said: Until you get stopped at a police shakedown in another province. Traffic police don't ask for TM30's, that is ridiculous, they don't even ask for the passport. So where is this shakedown occurring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsve Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Not impressed by these guys in the least... They're saying the landlords are responsible for the fines for non-filing, and they've "heard" that expats are being fined by "some" officers. How about, expats/renters are being fined by Thai Immigration for non-filing of TM30s in VASTLY greater number than the puny numbers of Thai landlords/owners being fined for non-compliance. Thai Immigration has no time or interest to go out hunting down huge numbers of Thai property and lodging operators. But with expats, they have them coming right to their desks at least once a year and easy to fine at that point under penalty of refusing their new extension. In all the many TM30 threads here, I haven't heard ONE report of an expat going to Immigration, being told or finding out they don't have a valid TM30, and then Immigration's response being, "Ohh... Well then, I guess we're going to have to go out and track down your landlord and fine them! Meanwhile, let's take care of your new extension of stay." Well here you have one, close to at least. Happend me in Jomtien about two year ago. I went to IO to report my new address. The female officer checked my papers and her computer, then asked for my landlords (a guesthouse owner) telephonnumber and call her. After that she cleared my paper and said, ok, you can go. When comming back home I talk to the landlord and she confirmed that IO had called here and told that she must fill in TM30 for all guests (6 rooms). The landlord also told me that she had have the guesthouse for seven years and never filled in a TM30 as she did not know about the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Tchooptip said: But once he will start forget or will not do it anymore...YOU wil have to pay the fine(s) Under those circumstances, you should register as the possessor, and do it yourself, preferably on-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Friend just told me she paid the fine last month at CW immigration for not doing a TM30. She said she went away recently so her Thai landlord tried to file a TM30 for her when she returned. Immigration tried to fine the landlord for the previous time. Are they keeping records or are they just putting their hands out and seeing what they can get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsve Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 7 hours ago, jacko45k said: Why bother, will you need to visit immigration up there or will somebody report your father in law to the authorities. If I go to the wife's village in Bahn Khee Kwai I have no intention of doing a TM30 there, nor when I return, as immigration will know nothing of it. You for sure miss a couple of things. First of all, you urges him to break the law. Secondly, anyone could report that he have been living there, for instance if he of any reason annoy any locals. Third Your solution, if it was used only (maybe) could be employed in just that kind of case. If he for instanc stay in a hotel for a night and want to follow the law and report when he come back home and there is no report that he have been living in another place for X nights he will get the problem even when he has done nothing wrong. That is the redicolius whith TM30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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