LIVE STREAM: TM30 and how it will impact the lives fo expats in Thailand

[4MyEgo]

19 hours ago, jackdd said:

I recommend you start with the headline of the form which says "possessor", if you rent a place in your name you are the possessor, so you have the obligation to submit a TM30 if a foreigner stays at your place.

Fair enough, I still don't see what's so hard about complying once you have a password and can get access to the TM30 site to report whoever stays at the "possessors" place, in all shouldn't take more than a minute, 2 at best, that, or tell your friends to put down that they are staying at a hotel on the TM6 report, doubt they would ever be picked quizzed about it, providing they exit within the usual timeframe without a visa, i.e. 28 days.

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, lkv said:

Well as you can imagine, when that happens, you will not find out in advance. Just like most found out about TM30 when they were asked to pay fines.

 

For an article of a 1979 law that THEY never enforced before for 40 years. Breaking their own laws basically.

 

So what your IO is telling you today is valid for today, let's just understand that clearly.

 

In China, for a "more major" address registration violation, you are not entitled for a 144 hour transit visa anymore, for example. And so on.

Edited 2 hours ago by lkv

TM30 has been enforced for years, hotels have always done reports. Outside of Bangkok the enforcement and fines has been going on for a couple of years now. You can find threads a couple of years old where people in Chaing Mia complaining about TM30 and getting fined etc.

 

I was cleaning out my file of immigration documents the other day and found a TM30 reciept from 6 years ago when I moved into the GFs house. There hasnt always been a fine for non-compliance but often a TM30 was put in your file, one of those documents you signed while waiting for your extension.

 

 

[4MyEgo]

13 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

This message is about TM30 nothing else, nothing to do with TM47. There is nothing about it being the landlords responsibility and the office is always full of foreigners reporting, as that is what they tell us to do. If you had not noticed offices can interpret the law as they see fit, ignore it or make their own rules up as they go along.

I would suggest you re-read #34, in particular the very bottom of the page under the photo, copy and pasted to the right: "My immigration office says nothing about landlords or property owners, they have said for two years it is the foreigners responsibility to report. This is stamped on 90 day receipts as a reminder"

 

Then re-read #47 where I was referring to the poster that the TM47 is the responsibility of the farang.

 

I think where everyone is getting ballsed up, including immigration, is as you pointed out to me the word "Possessor".

 

I would think that the "Possessor" would only have to do the TM30 report if someone stays at their place, as they are the lessee (tenant), would have perhaps been a better choice of a word rather than "Possessor", in other words why would it be the "Possessors" responsibility to do the landlords reporting, e.g. ask yourself this, would it be the "Possessors" responsibility to pay the landlords mortgage or anything other associated with the property, be it repairs, water rates etc etc, I think not, the bank would have to track them down, as would immigration for not complying with the Immigration Act, or send them the fine, in the lenders case, they would also have to track the landlord down and or seek an order from the court to take possession and sell it to re-coupe their money. As for anything else relating to the property as mentioned, be it repairs etc etc, e.g. a roofer who just put on a roof couldn't ask the tenant to pay for it if he couldn't track down the landlord. See where I am coming from ?   

 

Perhaps everyone is having trouble interpreting this 1979 legislation because the person that wrote is gone with the wind and has left it to everyone else to interpret that the "Possessor" has only to do the TM30 when someone stays at the property they posses/lease, are the tenant of, well it makes sense to me looking at it this way.

 

Hmmmm....could be onto something here ?

[Peterw42]

11 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I would suggest you re-read #34, in particular the very bottom of the page under the photo, copy and pasted to the right: "My immigration office says nothing about landlords or property owners, they have said for two years it is the foreigners responsibility to report. This is stamped on 90 day receipts as a reminder"

 

Then re-read #47 where I was referring to the poster that the TM47 is the responsibility of the farang.

 

I think where everyone is getting ballsed up, including immigration, is as you pointed out to me the word "Possessor".

 

I would think that the "Possessor" would only have to do the TM30 report if someone stays at their place, as they are the lessee (tenant), would have perhaps been a better choice of a word rather than "Possessor", in other words why would it be the "Possessors" responsibility to do the landlords reporting, e.g. ask yourself this, would it be the "Possessors" responsibility to pay the landlords mortgage or anything other associated with the property, be it repairs, water rates etc etc, I think not, the bank would have to track them down, as would immigration for not complying with the Immigration Act, or send them the fine, in the lenders case, they would also have to track the landlord down and or seek an order from the court to take possession and sell it to re-coupe their money. As for anything else relating to the property as mentioned, be it repairs etc etc, e.g. a roofer who just put on a roof couldn't ask the tenant to pay for it if he couldn't track down the landlord. See where I am coming from ?   

 

Perhaps everyone is having trouble interpreting this 1979 legislation because the person that wrote is gone with the wind and has left it to everyone else to interpret that the "Possessor" has only to do the TM30 when someone stays at the property they posses/lease, are the tenant of, well it makes sense to me looking at it this way.

 

Hmmmm....could be onto something here ?

Immigration Act

Section 4

“House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. 

 

[4MyEgo]

36 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Immigration Act

Section 4

“House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. 

 

I suppose again, it all boils down to interpretation.

 

Yes..."House Master" means exactly what Section 4 above states, however, what is it referring too, e.g. That the House Master must do a TM30 when the Alien returns, the Owner of his Condo when he returns, the hotel manager when he has a farang stay at the hotel, the Tenant when he has a friend from overseas or another province to stay, there is no specifics if you see where I am coming from, the translation/interpretation is grey IMO, it should elaborate more, and to be honest, I believe it is all lost in the translation, the left, not knowing what the right is doing, and not to be Thai bashing, we know, when they are wrong, they seldom back down IMO because we all know about how they handle loss of face. I will take it on the chin, if I am wrong here, from where I am seeing this.

 

Immigration Act

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following : 

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival. 

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office. 
The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as 

 

The way I interpret 4. Is that an Alien must go to the police station of whatever province he is visiting and report to the police, this is probably for the TM30 reporting, I see no where in the Act that it specifically states that the alien must report to his immigration office upon his return to his province to do the TM30, unless I missed something within the Act.

 

I note: In 5. it clearly states that the alien has to go to his immigration office to do his 90 day reporting for arguments sake.

[brianthainess]

On 8/29/2019 at 8:28 PM, MartinKal said:

On 8/29/2019 at 8:05 PM, pmh2009 said:

 

It is tiring and boring to see these whining, complaints blah blah blah !!!! Either you get with it or GO BACK to your home country where your own people, culture and laws are!!!! OKAY??????????????

Pmh methinks you have lost all your spirit

Yes his bottle is empty. 

[Peterw42]

18 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I suppose again, it all boils down to interpretation.

 

Yes..."House Master" means exactly what Section 4 above states, however, what is it referring too, e.g. That the House Master must do a TM30 when the Alien returns, the Owner of his Condo when he returns, the hotel manager when he has a farang stay at the hotel, the Tenant when he has a friend from overseas or another province to stay, there is no specifics if you see where I am coming from, the translation/interpretation is grey IMO, it should elaborate more, and to be honest, I believe it is all lost in the translation, the left, not knowing what the right is doing, and not to be Thai bashing, we know, when they are wrong, they seldom back down IMO because we all know about how they handle loss of face. I will take it on the chin, if I am wrong here, from where I am seeing this.

 

Immigration Act

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following : 

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time of arrival. 

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office. 
The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as 

 

The way I interpret 4. Is that an Alien must go to the police station of whatever province he is visiting and report to the police, this is probably for the TM30 reporting, I see no where in the Act that it specifically states that the alien must report to his immigration office upon his return to his province to do the TM30, unless I missed something within the Act.

 

I note: In 5. it clearly states that the alien has to go to his immigration office to do his 90 day reporting for arguments sake.

Forget Section 37 it is nothing to do with TM30, its to do with TM28 and 90 day reports.

It has been bundled in with the TM30 dramas but in reality its a separate issue and TM28 isnt enforced.

 

 

"I see no where in the Act that it specifically states that the alien must report to his immigration office upon his return to his province to do the TM30, unless I missed something within the Act."

 

Its in black and white clearly stated in section 38

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

 

The person responsible to report is also the alien being reported. 

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

18 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Forget Section 37 it is nothing to do with TM30, its to do with TM28 and 90 day reports.

It has been bundled in with the TM30 dramas but in reality its a separate issue and TM28 isnt enforced.

 

 

"I see no where in the Act that it specifically states that the alien must report to his immigration office upon his return to his province to do the TM30, unless I missed something within the Act."

 

Its in black and white clearly stated in section 38

 

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out, but I still see Section 38 as being iffy, i.e. it doesn't identify or specify, there is no clarity, for example, is it the Landlord, the Owner, the Hotel or the Occupier (tenant).... that must report. I will go further below.

 

I would translate from reading Section 38 to mean something this: broken down as follows:

 

1) The House-Master must complete the TM30 when the alien has returned from overseas or another province that he or she has stayed at, or has a guest staying at the property for more than 24 hours

 

2) The Owner must complete the TM30 when he/she returns from overseas or another province that he/she has stayed at for more than 24 hours

 

3) The Possessor must complete the TM30 when he has an alien guest staying at the premises he leases, no not ET, you know what I mean ????

 

4) Self explanatory about hotels as we all know they do the TM30

 

Not see black and white if you see where I am coming from. 

 

To dump the lot onto the farang because the House-Master/Landlord won't comply, is overseas etc etc is crazy, might as well take the TM30 processing off the hotels and make it mandatory that the alien do the TM30 as well.

 

[rumak]

23 hours ago, Moti24 said:

Thank you for stating the obvious.  I've already replied to a similar post.

There are so many LAWS in the world that I am pretty sure I am breaking one just sitting at home doing nothing.   OK, an exaggeration but still,  the ones that I don't want to follow and can do so without a lot of worry I do not fret about.  Here the obvious is that in FIL village people are not going to be aware or care if he is filing a tm30 .   Certainly I have never even heard the term once in all my time living outside of the city.

So I also state the obvious..... don't worry about it .  If stopped at a checkpoint has anyone here EVER been asked if you have updated your tm30?   I don't think so....

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Thanks for pointing that out, but I still see Section 38 as being iffy, i.e. it doesn't identify or specify, there is no clarity, for example, is it the Landlord, the Owner, the Hotel or the Occupier (tenant).... that must report. I will go further below.

 

I would translate from reading Section 38 to mean something this: broken down as follows:

 

1) The House-Master must complete the TM30 when the alien has returned from overseas or another province that he or she has stayed at, or has a guest staying at the property for more than 24 hours

 

2) The Owner must complete the TM30 when he/she returns from overseas or another province that he/she has stayed at for more than 24 hours

 

3) The Possessor must complete the TM30 when he has an alien guest staying at the premises he leases, no not ET, you know what I mean ????

 

4) Self explanatory about hotels as we all know they do the TM30

 

Do you see where I am coming from ?

 

To dump the lot onto the farang because the House-Master/Landlord won't comply, is overseas etc etc is crazy, might as well take the TM30 processing off the hotels and make it mandatory that the alien do the TM30 as well.

 

1,2 or 3 are all responsible to report an alien and in the case of most expats 1,2 and 3 are also the alien being reported.

 

I own a property, I report any alien that stays, including myself. I posses a property, I report any alien that stays, including myself. I am the housemaster for a property (a very broad definition in sect 4 of immi act meaning just about anyone) I report any alien that stays, including myself.

 

Its not a matter of the housemaster wont comply, as per section 4 "you are the housemaster"

 

 

[owl sees all]

18 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

Recently my UK daughter visited Thailand, staying in Phuket. Last week she flew to Udon Thani where we met her and we accommodated her for about 72 hours. She then flew back to Phuket, staying at the same hotel as before. Returning to the UK earlier this week.

 

I spoke to her when she had returned to UK, and queried if anything had been asked of her regarding the fact that she had left one province for another (a matter of record with the flights) and she told me no. 

 

I am thinking TM30 here. I might pose the question "What is the point of it?"

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I spoke to her when she had returned to UK, and queried if anything had been asked of her regarding the fact that she had left one province for another (a matter of record with the flights) and she told me no. 

 

Asked by whom, immigration at Phuket airport would not be interested. Not even sure they would have record of her taking the domestic flights.

[4MyEgo]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

1,2 or 3 are all responsible to report an alien and in the case of most expats 1,2 and 3 are also the alien being reported.

 

I own a property, I report any alien that stays, including myself. I posses a property, I report any alien that stays, including myself. I am the housemaster for a property (a very broad definition in sect 4 of immi act meaning just about anyone) I report any alien that stays, including myself.

 

Its not a matter of the housemaster wont comply, as per section 4 "you are the housemaster"

 

 

Yes totally agree with you on all points, but my point was why are aliens being fined because the landlords are failing to report them ?

 

I can understand if you are the Owner and didn't report yourself when returning or when a friend stayed, but to fine aliens for their landlords not doing the TM30 is just plain crazy.

[rumak]

14 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

This message is about TM30 nothing else, nothing to do with TM47. There is nothing about it being the landlords responsibility and the office is always full of foreigners reporting, as that is what they tell us to do. If you had not noticed offices can interpret the law as they see fit, ignore it or make their own rules up as they go along.

We can point this out each and every tm30 thread but never seems to stop the debate.  The one debate I know has never been won is the one with the farang refusing to pay the fine.  Here is my post again:

I have commented a number of times on our  experience as landlords here in CM.  Here is a copy of what i wrote in a recent thread.  :

I will give MY take on this based on my experience as a Landlord in Chiangmai.   I do believe that many other provinces would treat it the same way..(but of that I of course am not sure.... Here is how we do it:

WHEN A PERSON wants to rent from us we tell them what CM immig told us.  We as owners should do the first one when the tenant moves in.  After that the tenant must go WITH THEIR PASSPORT and initial tm30 receipt to the immig office to report that they have just returned.  Up till now CM only requires that after returning from out of the country .  NOTE:  the more people that go there and start complaining the quicker they might require more stringent reporting ! 

Five years of doing this (since they started enforcing the tm30) and we nor a tenant has ever had a problem.  If someone told us the we as owners had to do it every time we would not rent to them.

The big problem for renters is really when they rent somewhere that is not within a short drive to the immig office ( CM is a very large province, for example)   

The ongoing and never resolved argument about who is responsible is made VOID when the tenant and landlord agree beforehand how it will be handled.   Just like many immig things, it is open to interpretation, not black and white as the debaters insist.  Like I said,  I was told by CM how to do it and we have not had any problems following it that way.

[jacko45k]

Just now, 4MyEgo said:

Yes totally agree with you on all points, but my point was why are aliens being fined because the landlords are failing to report them ?

 

I can understand if you are the Owner and didn't report yourself when returning or when a friend stayed, but to fine aliens for their landlords not doing the TM30 is just plain crazy.

They can fine you as possessor for not reporting. If the wife was the owner and went to immigration, you both might get fined. It is also a matter of getting some money off someone. 

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Asked by whom, immigration at Phuket airport would not be interested. Not even sure they would have record of her taking the domestic flights.

Asked by anyone! She left the Phuket province for three days and no-one asked anything. 

 

It could have been a person up to no good and then they had left.

[rumak]

7 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes totally agree with you on all points, but my point was why are aliens being fined because the landlords are failing to report them ?

 

I can understand if you are the Owner and didn't report yourself when returning or when a friend stayed, but to fine aliens for their landlords not doing the TM30 is just plain crazy.

Do you really expect an owner to keep track of your comings and goings ???   Owner should report first time when you move in.  After that YOU are the POSSESSOR.    Why is that difficult to understand ?

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Recently my UK daughter visited Thailand, staying in Phuket. Last week she flew to Udon Thani where we met her and we accommodated her for about 72 hours. She then flew back to Phuket, staying at the same hotel as before. Returning to the UK earlier this week.

 

I spoke to her when she had returned to UK, and queried if anything had been asked of her regarding the fact that she had left one province for another (a matter of record with the flights) and she told me no. 

 

I am thinking TM30 here. I might pose the question "What is the point of it?"

If you dont visit immigration (as in the case of your daughter) nobody will ever ask for a TM30.

The same as I just went to 7/11 and didnt wear a helmet.

 

Technically you should have reported her, but like the bike helmet, we both got away with not complying with the law.

 

The point of the exercise is pretty obvious, if police were looking for your daughter and you complied with the law, they would have known where to find her during her 72 hour visit.

[bert bloggs]

All though i dont like it ,to be honest it will make hardly any differance to me whatsoever.

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes totally agree with you on all points, but my point was why are aliens being fined because the landlords are failing to report them ?

 

I can understand if you are the Owner and didn't report yourself when returning or when a friend stayed, but to fine aliens for their landlords not doing the TM30 is just plain crazy.

Landlords are not actually ever officially mentioned as being liable for TM30s, that is something that has been added to the discussion by posters and commentators.

 

The tenant, as possessor, is just as liable as the landlord/owner.

 

People need to let go of the belief that it only the owner/landlord is responsible. Maybe a better term would be the keyholder is responsible.

 

If your toothbrush is in the bathroom, you are pretty much responsible to report any alien, including yourself.

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

They can fine you as possessor for not reporting. If the wife was the owner and went to immigration, you both might get fined. It is also a matter of getting some money off someone. 

I will agree with your first part about being the possessor, e.g. you as the possessor/tenant had someone staying with you and failed to report them, yes you would get a fine as the possessor has to report anyone (alien) staying with them, it's the law and you have to comply.

 

The 2nd part, if you mean you go to immigration with your wife and she hasn't reported you, she and she only as the landlord can be fined, e.g. I went with my wife who is my landlord and enquired with regard to the TM30 as we had been to 3 provinces for a week within the year, and they said, no problem we start from today, no fine, but as you are going to Chiang Mai at the end of the week you MUST come here within 24 hours and do the TM30, and we did, no fine, and we now are set up to do it online, sorted. 

[4MyEgo]

16 minutes ago, rumak said:

Do you really expect an owner to keep track of your comings and goings ???   Owner should report first time when you move in.  After that YOU are the POSSESSOR.    Why is that difficult to understand ?

There is nothing difficult in what you are saying, I get it, but if you actually hear what you are saying, e.g. it is not up to the owner to keep track of my comings and goings, WRONG.....it's immigrations madness, it is in the Immigration Act, it's legislation and that makes it law, as crazy as it is, which makes way for the owner to be fined if they fail to report your return as the Immigration Act states, simple really, no difficulty in understanding that where I am coming from.

 

It doesn't say that the owner should report you the first time when you move in, it's every time you return, and you know that.

 

Yes after you move in you are the "Possessor" and it would be up to the possessor to report every time someone (alien) stays with them, nothing to do with the House-Master, Landlord, they would be reporting when you return only, not when your friend stays if you are the Possessor/tenant, however if your House-Master/Landlord could be the same meaning in some cases, for example the House-Master/Landlord is your wife, then she would have to report your friend (alien) when they stayed.

 

Nothing difficult in understanding the above, if you can understand it ????

 

[4MyEgo]

17 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Landlords are not actually ever officially mentioned as being liable for TM30s, that is something that has been added to the discussion by posters and commentators.

 

The tenant, as possessor, is just as liable as the landlord/owner.

 

People need to let go of the belief that it only the owner/landlord is responsible. Maybe a better term would be the keyholder is responsible.

 

If your toothbrush is in the bathroom, you are pretty much responsible to report any alien, including yourself.

Interesting about Landlords not actually ever "officially" mentioned about being liable for TM30's.

 

I have read on unofficial posts the following, and have read on TVF that some guys wives had been fined for not reporting the husbands returning, see below copy and pasted comment from the unofficial post.

 

Yes I think more clarification is required, e.g. House-Master, Landlord, Owner, Possessor/Tenant, all need to report when someone returns or someone stays at their address

 

What Happens If I Fail to Register?

 

Whether Thai or foreign landlord living in Thailand, make sure to register new guests within 24 hours.

 

Even if a guest leaves and then returns a month later, you need to report this again.

 

The fine for not reporting is 1,600 Baht per person.

As a tenant or guest, you should ask your landlord if you have already been reported. If your landlord is not willing to report you, then you can try moving to another place or you can report yourself on his/her behalf. That being said, to report yourself you need the aforementioned documents from your landlord.

[jacko45k]

42 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

The 2nd part, if you mean you go to immigration with your wife and she hasn't reported you, she and she only as the landlord can be fined,

I only stated this as it happened to a friend who lived in a house with his wife and it was in her name. They did indeed try to fine them both, think it was 2000+1600 but they argued a deal. 

[4MyEgo]

27 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I only stated this as it happened to a friend who lived in a house with his wife and it was in her name. They did indeed try to fine them both, think it was 2000+1600 but they argued a deal. 

That's sad, that there are immigration officers out there that act in this manner, but they had them over a barrel, I suppose.

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

That's sad, that there are immigration officers out there that act in this manner, but they had them over a barrel, I suppose.

They can only fine her as the landlord,not him. That's the law.

[jollyhangmon]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes totally agree with you on all points, but my point was why are aliens being fined because the landlords are failing to report them ?

 

I can understand if you are the Owner and didn't report yourself when returning or when a friend stayed, but to fine aliens for their landlords not doing the TM30 is just plain crazy.

 

1 hour ago, rumak said:

Do you really expect an owner to keep track of your comings and goings ???   Owner should report first time when you move in.  After that YOU are the POSSESSOR.    Why is that difficult to understand ?

 

Fine if it works for you that way, congrats, understandable from your standpoint as the 'owner'/landlord ... clear cut it certainly ain't, not at all in daily practice across the LOL, wide open to all kinds of interpretation - a nonfunctioning p.o.s. of a law/regulation in other words.

 

My dependance of that circus - which btw. reports exactly to yours (!) - decidedly wants the landlords to report on their guests, tenants, whatever u wish to call it ... in true tradition of Himmler Heinis Gestapo or East Germanys STASI and the probable intention of this law in the very first place ... 

 

[4MyEgo]

6 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

They can only fine her as the landlord,not him. That's the law.

Yep, that's what I said in my earlier reply at #116, second part.

[4MyEgo]

3 minutes ago, jollyhangmon said:

 

 

Fine if it works for you that way, congrats, understandable from your standpoint as the 'owner'/landlord ... clear cut it certainly ain't, not at all in daily practice across the LOL, wide open to all kinds of interpretation - a nonfunctioning p.o.s. of a law/regulation in other words.

 

My dependance of that circus - which btw. reports exactly to yours (!) - decidedly wants the landlords to report on their guests, tenants, whatever u wish to call it ... in true tradition of Himmler Heinis Gestapo or East Germanys STASI and the probable intention of this law in the very first place ... 

 

Couldn't agree with you more about the last sentence, but the way I see it is, we all have a choice, and for now, we are set up online, and will wait to see what comes next, because while standing on the plank taking it all in and enjoying it, if push comes to shove, well, we might just jump, have money can travel anytime, backs are not against the wall, so the firing squad will miss out ????

 

[Nong Khai Man]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

They can only fine her as the landlord,not him. That's the law.

I'd Like to SEE You trying to TELL Them " That's The Law " Max.........YOU Won't WIN ..