Buying a Thai Elite visa on financing

[Caldera]

50 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

 

It's Pattaya or Angeles for me. I've spoken to friends and nothing else competes IMO.

 

You guys speak as if Thailand is in rapid decline. I agree that 5 years ago it was a little better, but not that much.

Okay, if Pattaya is your benchmark, I can see why you didn't see a major decline in the last five years. It's a bit like saying, I've visited Disney World, no idea why people say the USA is in rapid decline.

 

Overall though, I'd say the decline (in attractiveness for Western expats) is real and has been accelerating.

[lkv]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBKK said:

immigration made this visa to attract rich people, not the common folks.

They were clearly delusional, because the people buying this were:

 

-people that had ties in Thailand and were sick and tired of all the technicalities (not that rich), over 50

- some under 50 that have a gf/bf/dog.

- some that saw this as a tax avoidance scheme that was worth the money and also liked and wanted to live in Thailand (since there are plenty of other schemes available to reduce tax to zero).

 

The people for which the cost of Elite represents 1% of their net worth, as some were saying, live in Singapore or some other places and visit Thailand for fun.

Edited August 31, 2019 by lkv

[donnacha]

6 hours ago, 3421abc said:

I would just marry a Thai, I have no assets here so a divorce down the road would not affect me.

Lucky girl.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, lkv said:

1 hour ago, JohnnyBKK said:

immigration made this visa to attract rich people, not the common folks.

They were clearly delusional, because the people buying this were:

 

-people that had ties in Thailand and were sick and tired of all the technicalities (not that rich), over 50

- some under 50 that have a gf/bf/dog.

- some that saw this as a tax avoidance scheme that was worth the money and also liked and wanted to live in Thailand (since there are plenty of other schemes available to reduce tax to zero).

 

The people for which the cost of Elite represents 1% of their net worth, as some were saying, live in Singapore or some other places and visit Thailand for fun.

Edited 1 minute ago by lkv

 

Agreed... It attracted quite a few who like me were well under 50 yrs old, unmarried (at the time) and were working overseas and regularly traveling back to Thailand, calling Thailand home and at times staying in Thailand for anywhere between 2 and 6 months between projects (overseas work). 

 

The only only viable option was the T.E. Visa or chance it with repeated tourist visa's - the Thai Elite Visa presented the perfect opportunity for a trouble free existence in Thailand. 

 

 

 

[gk10002000]

I am a long standing account holder with citicards and they offer me no questions asked a personal loan based off my card for a rate of 7 per cent.  But in general, a personal loan from a bank can have many reasons.  Never know what the bank will approve or not approve.

[donnacha]

6 hours ago, Hal65 said:

I'm 33, a US citizen, and have access to tourist and ED visas. I'm a programmer and could also take a local job but that's undesirable for income and lifestyle reasons.

 

9 hours ago, Hal65 said:

I have enough for the 20 year Thai Elite (1 million baht. A 5 year costs 500k). But it would take out 75% of my savings.

You are an American programmer in his 30s but only have roughly USD 43K in savings?

You must have accumulated other assets during your 20s, that was a decade during which even coders with no English or ability to code were bouncing from one well-paid job to another. I mean, it was essentially impossible not to make a lot of money

So, I presume you mean you only have 43K in cash but you have other assets such as shares, a car somewhere, probably a house or apartment back in the US. In that case, don't borrow, just pay cash. You can easily build up the 32K again with a few months of freelance online coding gigs. 

HOWEVER, if you do not have other assets, that would suggest a history of making poor career and financial decisions. It is almost certain that buying an Elite visa is another poor decision.

The Junta has only been in power for 5 years. Before that, it was easy and cheap to get a six-month tourist visa, extendable to nine months. There is a real possibility that, as the Thai economy worsens, they may rethink the wisdom of torpedoing their Western tourist industry. There is also a smaller possibility that, within the next five years or so, the current gang will get displaced by a more business-oriented government, again likely ending the current visa restrictions. The Elite visa may well turn out to have been unnecessary.

You are also betting that Thailand will continue to be a good place to live. Again, not necessarily the case, especially if we are talking about a 20-year timeframe. If the emerging cold war with China continues, the current Thai regime will be firmly in the China camp, and Thai nationalism is likely to incorporate a distinctly anti-Western sentiment.

You have also stated that you were interested in either Pattaya or Angeles, which very specifically pinpoints your current main interest in life - both cities are absolute pits on every level apart from partying. It is good to have an interest, but be aware that the novelty of paying girls to pretend they like you does wear thin over time. You may find, in just a few years time, you will still like to party at the weekend, but you won't want it to be your entire life.

There is a significant chance that the current government, desperate to generate popular support, will hit upon the idea to "clean up Thailand", effectively shutting down Pattaya and cracking down even harder on alcohol throughout the country. Honestly, on the "beer n' pussy" score, the Philippines is a far better long-term bet (just a damn shame the food is so bad).

If I were in your position, I would take the time to spend a few months in each of the other main S.E. Asian destinations. Saigon and Hanoi can be terrific fun. The Philippines is a revelation once you grow beyond Angeles and start discovering smaller cities such as Davao or Dumaguete - you will be swimming in girls who actually do like you, and your cost of living will be dramatically lower, giving you the space to grow real savings.

 If you do decide to buy the Elite visa, consider that, when you are financially constrained, the "bargain" of the 20-year visa is an illusion. Right now, each dollar is worth far more to you than it will be in five years time. Keep your life as simple as possible, avoid getting ensnared in debt, that was once the whole point of living in Asia as an expat.

[50soon]

Get a job !!!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[onera1961]

8 hours ago, Caldera said:

Overall though, I'd say the decline (in attractiveness for Western expats) is real and has been accelerating.

What kind of decline? Can you please elaborate. I am visiting Thailand for 17-years and now spend 6 month in Thailand, 3-month in Spain, and 3-month Hawaii. I have not felt any decline. More shopping plazas, cheaper airlines tickets to more destinations, better infrastructure, more availability of technology. I cant get my head around the decline part. May be more smog and dirty and crowded beaches. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by onera1961

[Caldera]

1 minute ago, onera1961 said:

What kind of decline? Can you please elaborate. I am visiting Thailand for 17-years and now spend 6 month in Thailand, 3-month in Spain, and 3-month Hawaii. I have not felt any decline. More shopping plazas, cheaper airlines tickets to more destinations, better infrastructure, more availability of technology. I cant get my head around the decline part. May be more smog and dirty and crowded beaches. 

That's definitely a big part of it. Bangkok has always been polluted, but this year the air was pretty much unbreathable for months. Bangkok has always been crowded, but nowadays there's (almost) no BTS rush hours anymore, it's crowded like mad throughout the day. Same with popular shopping malls, completely overrun. Bangkok certainly is an extreme, but there are similar developments in other popular places I've re-visited. That can be mitigated to some extent by visiting 2nd and 3rd tier tourist destinations instead of the hotspots, and I will admit that I've had a great time doing that, so it isn't all doom and gloom.

 

Then you have the most odious government and officialdom imaginable, that promised to "return happiness", but has been busy doing pretty much exactly the opposite. To me, many Thai people seem more stressed and less happy nowadays, long gone seem the days of "sanook bliss". Will they or won't they allow certain pubs in certain areas allow to stay open past 2AM again? It's that kind of kindergarten policy making and policing that I find increasingly annoying.

[Thaidream]

19 hours ago, Hal65 said:

 

That would mean the person has to have a net worth of $3.2 million. You are stricter than I am. I'd say once you have $1 million in net worth a 20 year visa for $32,000 should not be much of a cost consideration.

 

I'm 33, a US citizen, and have access to tourist and ED visas. I'm a programmer and could also take a local job but that's undesirable for income and lifestyle reasons. Right now ED visas are the best bet.

 

I've done some analysis of competing options and the only other country that interests me is the Philippines. I prefer Thailand though.

 

On a per year basis I'm already paying about the same for ED visas as the 20 year Elite would cost. It's unfortunate that you must pay the full balance up front for the Elite; if not for that fact it would be the best option easily. Still, I am seriously considering it.

Unless your salary right now is 100,000 US Dollars per year and you can count on a 6% increase each year- you are wasting time in Thailand.  If you have IT skills these are much more marketable for a Company in the US that will pay you an excellent salary; medical insurance; profit sharing and contribute to a pension and Social Security.

 

The elite visa is a high priced tourist visa which guarantees you no real longevity- I would never consider financing to purchase such a Visa and would never purchase one for more than 5 years.  

 

In 20 years you will be 53 years old and unless you have millions of dollars at that time you will need to work until 80. You never want to end up poor in Thailand because no one is going to help you. 

 Think about all the changes thae have happenedf in the last 20 years and try and imagine what will happen in the next 20 years. At the rate things are going- the World will see massive unemployment due to a new artificial intelligence revolution  not to mention the results of massive climate change.  You need to be on the right side of all the change and not end up in the unemployment line.    Best wishes.

 

 

[jspill]

6 months a year in Thailand, 6 months in Philippines, repeat. Then you don't need the Elite visa and you will run out of bargirls if you live year round in Pattaya / Angeles anyway. It's best to leave and come back for a new rotation. Also less dirty looks from people that recognise you.

 

Given that Thailand makes you leave after 3 months you could do 6 months Philippines, 3 months Thailand, 1 month Indonesia, 2 months Thailand, then you don't need an METV just the one SETV. Jakarta has a 30 day visa exemption too, and a big gentlemans club scene.

 

Could even buy a basic studio condo in one country with the money you'd use for Elite and rent it out half the time

Edited September 1, 2019 by jspill

[allanos]

A 20-year TE visa is an over-commitment; one cannot look so far ahead. A 5-year TE would appear to be the more sensible route to go.

 

My take would be to factor the monthly servicing costs of any loan taken out for the visa against one's monthly net income, and see how it shapes up, to answer the affordability question. The repayments can then be viewed as the cost of doing business and which is perhaps a more realistic means of arriving at a satisfactory conclusion regarding the way forward.

[khunPer]

On 8/31/2019 at 9:03 AM, Hal65 said:

Any advice you guys have about financing all or a part of one of these is welcome

Isn't taking a loan – i.e. borrowing money – simple down to a question of security, and showing an income that can pay the loan back?

 

If you pay half of the Elite Visa cash – i.e. 500k baht – and finance the other half, your remaining savings, or their paper value if invested, could be a security deposit; you would still be able to cash dividends and interest.

 

Any income should be high enough to pay the installments on the loan.

 

With the low interest rates it's not that bad to borrow money these days – actually, in my Scandinavian home country one can make money every month when taking a loan in the house, due to negative interest rate...????

[natway09]

If it is going to use 75% of your funds ,,,, stay home ,,, you can"t afford to live here

[Ctkong]

On 8/31/2019 at 4:10 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, but if he's very quiet about his working, then it shouldn't be any problem!  

My missus was asked at KL airport by the Malaysian IO what is her occupation in Thailand since she has a Thai elite visa stamped in her passport. She replied that she is just a housewife on allowance and they find that disturbing.... leading to the asking for cash funds for the trip.... seems the elite visa is not known overseas. It is not elite in their eyes. 

[Ctkong]

19 hours ago, BestB said:

OP, may be i missed something or misreading. but you can comfortably afford 500 000 baht, so why not just get the 5 year for 500 000 instead of having to borrow? in 5 years you may have more money or visa situation may change or god knows what could happen.

The guy is penny pinching for the best value per year. 

[mikeymike100]

20 years is a long time, anything could happen! Even with an elite visa you only need to be arrested for a violation and you could get kicked out. The authorities could change the laws, even with a elite visa you are only a 'guest' you have no rights. its your money and your choice, but only you can weigh up the risks.

[wolf81]

On 8/31/2019 at 5:25 PM, Hal65 said:

 

That would mean the person has to have a net worth of $3.2 million. You are stricter than I am. I'd say once you have $1 million in net worth a 20 year visa for $32,000 should not be much of a cost consideration.

 

I'm 33, a US citizen, and have access to tourist and ED visas. I'm a programmer and could also take a local job but that's undesirable for income and lifestyle reasons. Right now ED visas are the best bet.

 

I've done some analysis of competing options and the only other country that interests me is the Philippines. I prefer Thailand though.

 

On a per year basis I'm already paying about the same for ED visas as the 20 year Elite would cost. It's unfortunate that you must pay the full balance up front for the Elite; if not for that fact it would be the best option easily. Still, I am seriously considering it.

My point-of-view is that a Thai Elite visa can be worth it, even with a net worth of 0 USD. It very much depends on the country where you are from and you have to take into account that it might be possible to avoid paying tax or just pay a lot less tax compared to your home country. If it's possible to earn the cost of the Thai Elite visa back in a couple of years through the avoided tax, it might very well be worth it.

 

Especially if one is able to work remotely, perhaps using some offshore business. Of course this isn't officially allowed in Thailand, but there aren't any other good options for a single man company in Thailand imo. 

[DJ54]

Can you get an Elite for 5 years? 20 years is a long stretch and you 

never know what’s goingto happen. 

 

Myself personally wouldn’t go the 20 years the odds are I’ll be pushing up daisies long before that....

[Suradit69]

On August 31, 2019 at 2:54 PM, taninthai said:

you know no employment/working aloud 

Yes, important that he works silently.

[Hal65]

The 5 year is being brought up again so I guess I'll elaborate on the awkwardness of my age. I have 17 years before the age of 50. This means:

 

- 1 20 year covers me

- 2 EDs and 3 5 years cover me for a little more than a 50% premium

 

* And my net worth will make the decision on the later 2 5 year Elites much less eventful compared to now

** The problem is it's quite likely the Elite Visa schemes may not be around in 10+ years. Wealthy nations don't like having these backdoors for numerous reasons (don't need the money, it's a bad look, etc)

 

To me it is a bigger loss to lose access to Thailand than to ride a 20 year for say 8, effectively paying $4,000 per year instead of a little less than $2,000. One cost is trivial, the other is significant.

 

Bouncing between PH and Thailand is compelling though. I'm not much of a traveller and would have to pay for storing a large room's worth of stuff, and then paying movers to relocate everything. Doing that twice per year wouldn't be too bad though. It's not my first preference but it's a decent alternative.

[BestB]

26 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

The 5 year is being brought up again so I guess I'll elaborate on the awkwardness of my age. I have 17 years before the age of 50. This means:

 

- 1 20 year covers me

- 2 EDs and 3 5 years cover me for a little more than a 50% premium

 

* And my net worth will make the decision on the later 2 5 year Elites much less eventful compared to now

** The problem is it's quite likely the Elite Visa schemes may not be around in 10+ years. Wealthy nations don't like having these backdoors for numerous reasons (don't need the money, it's a bad look, etc)

 

To me it is a bigger loss to lose access to Thailand than to ride a 20 year for say 8, effectively paying $4,000 per year instead of a little less than $2,000. One cost is trivial, the other is significant.

 

Bouncing between PH and Thailand is compelling though. I'm not much of a traveller and would have to pay for storing a large room's worth of stuff, and then paying movers to relocate everything. Doing that twice per year wouldn't be too bad though. It's not my first preference but it's a decent alternative.

Let’s try again. You do NOT have the funds for 20 year old visa and your choice of places are only cheap hooker towns . 

 

If things stay on the sane tracks.  Thailand, Pattaya would not be a place for cheap hookers in a few years 

[jspill]

43 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

The 5 year is being brought up again so I guess I'll elaborate on the awkwardness of my age. I have 17 years before the age of 50. This means:

 

- 1 20 year covers me

- 2 EDs and 3 5 years cover me for a little more than a 50% premium

 

* And my net worth will make the decision on the later 2 5 year Elites much less eventful compared to now

** The problem is it's quite likely the Elite Visa schemes may not be around in 10+ years. Wealthy nations don't like having these backdoors for numerous reasons (don't need the money, it's a bad look, etc)

 

To me it is a bigger loss to lose access to Thailand than to ride a 20 year for say 8, effectively paying $4,000 per year instead of a little less than $2,000. One cost is trivial, the other is significant.

 

Bouncing between PH and Thailand is compelling though. I'm not much of a traveller and would have to pay for storing a large room's worth of stuff, and then paying movers to relocate everything. Doing that twice per year wouldn't be too bad though. It's not my first preference but it's a decent alternative.

I'm the same age as you 33, at some point you'll probably want kids, and then your visa issues are taken care of at only 1900 baht a year... even a non Thai kid you can get a visa based on them going to an international school here

 

I did the bouncing back and forth between Thailand and Philippines for years and it was great fun but eventually you slow down and want to start a family

[jerojero]

Very quiet posting on public site like TV. Right.

 
Yes, but if he's very quiet about his working, then it shouldn't be any problem!  

[mrfaroukh]

I don't understand why you should be doing that. I had a friend who bough this card and paid that huge sum but after 2 years didn't want to live here any more. So the money is wasted.

 

If you do have to get the card I advise you to buy for 5 years and see if you like to stay here more than 5 years.

[LukKrueng]

On 8/31/2019 at 5:25 PM, Hal65 said:

It's unfortunate that you must pay the full balance up front for the Elite; if not for that fact it would be the best option easily.

the elite visa was "invented" for the sole purpose of injecting large amounts of money into the country. Having it paid over a 20 years period kinda contradict the idea....

[Tomahawk21]

17 hours ago, Ctkong said:

The guy is penny pinching for the best value per year. 

hardly penny pinching saving himself a small fortune.

[onera1961]

15 hours ago, Hal65 said:

The problem is it's quite likely the Elite Visa schemes may not be around in 10+ years. Wealthy nations don't like having these backdoors for numerous reasons (don't need the money, it's a bad look, etc)

 

How do you know it is not going to be around 10+ years? If they eliminate elite, the existing visa holders will be grand fathered. Wealthy nations (like EU nations, US, Singapore), still offer residency purchase. US has recently increased the price because there is lot of fraud and scam going there. 

[justin case]

eLITE is just not worth it and THEY can cancel it for some many reasons... one being =  you run out of money  or you have a crazy ex that sue you for ludicrous criminal charges because she can as she is thai and you are an alien with no rights...

 

you only read the small prints after the consideration from immigration

 

than you got a long list of DO NOT DO THIS ...

 

at the end of the line, you have NOTHING in return

 

 

[justin case]

10 hours ago, mrfaroukh said:

I don't understand why you should be doing that. I had a friend who bough this card and paid that huge sum but after 2 years didn't want to live here any more. So the money is wasted.

 

If you do have to get the card I advise you to buy for 5 years and see if you like to stay here more than 5 years.

 

is it the kind he cannot resell ?

 

it is in fact a worthless card, if at least you could redeem the time not used..