Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election

[Bruntoid]

8 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

The stab in the back for democracy was Boris Cummings prorogueing parliament for 5 weeks at a crucial time for Brexit. Please remember that the UK is a parliamentary democracy and the referendum was advisory.

 

You also need to accept the fact that if the referendum were held tomorrow, remain would win the day. If you disagree, call for a confirmatory vote.

The last paragraph says it all, it really does. If PM Cummings called for a second referendum and the result was leave it would be a 100% slam dunk for leave - game over. 

 

Why won’t they ? Because they would lose, people are informed now leaving the xenophobes sidelined. 

 

So they cling on to a referendum over THREE years old and bleat democracy is being denied. 

 

If so sure call for for an update and find out - why so scared ? 

 

Bojo could do this ,respect the result either way and stay PM FOR 5 years instead of staring down the barrels as he is now. 

[beautifulthailand99]

7 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

The last paragraph says it all, it really does. If PM Cummings called for a second referendum and the result was leave it would be a 100% slam dunk for leave - game over. 

 

Why won’t they ? Because they would lose, people are informed now leaving the xenophobes sidelined. 

 

So they cling on to a referendum over THREE years old and bleat democracy is being denied. 

 

If so sure call for for an update and find out - why so scared ? 

 

Bojo could do this ,respect the result either way and stay PM FOR 5 years instead of staring down the barrels as he is now. 

He appears to be a wounded bellowing beast in his death throes as knives come into him from all directions and in particular his own brother at his moment of weakness. And if the personal life rumours are true that could also blow up in his face anytime soon. Let's just Revoke A50 and Startup GB to paraphrase a Thai slogan. Here's where he gets his BS from - it's a big old beast. 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[7by7]

9 hours ago, JAG said:

A parliamentary representative democracy  serves to represent  the wishes of those it represents, not what they (the representatives)  think is good for them (those who elect them).  That is why they are elected on a manifesto. 

 

No.

 

What you are describing are delegates, not representatives.

 

Delegates have to do what those who appointed (elected) them tell them to do. Representatives don't, they do what they believe is best for those who appointed (elected) them.

 

As Edmund Burke put it an MP "owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.”

 

9 hours ago, JAG said:

Both the Conservative  and Labour parties were elected on an emphatic manifesto  to take the UK out of the EU,  honouring the referendum result is the phrase  which comes to mind. The Tory rebels. And the Labour  party have openly and deliberately  reneged on that manifesto.  They should  face the electorate without delay.

 

We would have left the EU last March had Rees-Mogg, his ERG and others put their own interests above those of the country.

[7by7]

4 hours ago, transam said:

4 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Right now it is the leavers that are moaning.

And rightly so, the electorate are being taken the <deleted> of by MP's ballsing things up. I hope BJ sacks a few so they lose much of their nice pay cheque...

 

Had a group of them, led by Boris and Rees-Mogg, not deliberately ballsed it up we would have left last March.

 

Parliament can't decide; so give the decision back to the people in a final, and this time legally binding, referendum.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That's common among the Europeans they ignore democracy when it suits them. As for manipulated that's comical as the whole EU project has been manipulated to the European countries and they have fallen, hook line and sinker for it.

 

What's really sad is that you actually believe this.

[beautifulthailand99]

The tide is turning Tory supporting Nick Robinson tweets 

 

Nick Robinson

@bbcnickrobinson

Not long ago @jeremycorbyn  faced a crisis trapped between Remainers & Leavers and was shunned by other opposition parties. Now he’s able to stand up for democracy, work with a cross-party alliance & appear statesmanlike. Is that what people mean by No 10’s new strategic genius?

 

[Bruntoid]

13 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

The stab in the back for democracy was Boris Cummings prorogueing parliament for 5 weeks at a crucial time for Brexit. Please remember that the UK is a parliamentary democracy and the referendum was advisory.

As an ex boxer (pretty <deleted> else you would have heard of me ????) I’ve never been known for punishing a man once he’s down (unlike the ludicrous MMA) - but how ironic is it that the prorogueing (sic?) - could actually mean Boris doesn’t have time for alternative options !

 

Seriously, Cummings has to be  a project managers nightmare. Everything based on misplaced bravado - <deleted> all on intelligence, cunning but most important in all battles, boxing ring or Houses of Parliament, KNOW who you’re up against ! 

[Bruntoid]

18 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Total hypocrisy. Leavers are the screamers and shouters who throw bile of abuse at leavers. you are one of them.

So I see your happy that democracy is overturned. Maybe a country that is run by dictators is what you think is best. The type of Brit not missed in my opinion.

Never let the opposition know you’re rattled - regroup, go again ????????

 

Allow me to throw you a bone - you’ve clearly lost the U.K. fight but Macron is your friend now - UK political peeps are seemingly of the opinion that an extension is a shoe in - however that appetite isn’t across the 27 nations.

 

So if Boris, or more importantly clueless Cummings can keep their mouths shut for 5 minutes, and actually offer nothing, they could get everything they’re after without the stress and embarrassment. 

 

If ONE nation says what’s the point, (and they would have a point), the U.K. comes out on Oct 31st - time to start brushing up on your french ????

Edited September 6, 2019 by Bruntoid

[cleopatra2]

9 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

As an ex boxer (pretty <deleted> else you would have heard of me ????) I’ve never been known for punishing a man once he’s down (unlike the ludicrous MMA) - but how ironic is it that the prorogueing (sic?) - could actually mean Boris doesn’t have time for alternative options !

 

Seriously, Cummings has to be  a project managers nightmare. Everything based on misplaced bravado - <deleted> all on intelligence, cunning but most important in all battles, boxing ring or Houses of Parliament, KNOW who you’re up against ! 

Unless the plan is to ditch the DUP.

The PM has pledged to leave 31 October and reverse the backstop.

 

He goes to the council suggests NI only backstop and attempts to push the WA throuhh before 31

[Bruntoid]

12 hours ago, transam said:

More daft stuff....So you actually know who would win if there was another referendum.....Gawd....????

 

Your darlin Jeremy is against an election, you tell me why is that...?

Could it be he knows he will lose, you tell me, you are the insider.....

Danny Carlton may not know but the thousands surveyed since do - let google be your friend. 

 

There is no appetite for the unfolding carnage - democracy in action.

 

As for the Corbyn comment - come on seriously ? - Corbyn has the keys to No 10 and has locked Bojo in - if you can’t see that you’re out of your depth here.

[Bruntoid]

12 hours ago, transam said:

 

Remember the Poll tax riots, yeh, Brits coming out of the woodwork smashing things up, for what...The UK does have oddballs, read a lot of odd stuff here..

The poll tax riots were enacted by people that thought hang on I might actually have to pay my way here!! Not having that 

 

There will be zero riots over Brexit - nothing - for sure it might be an opportune moment for a few Facebook aided professional looters to grab a free PS4 in Oxford Street, but everyone will be back at work on Monday grateful their job is no longer under threat from the Brexit madness. 

 

 

[Bruntoid]

9 hours ago, transam said:

And rightly so, the electorate are being taken the <deleted> of by MP's ballsing things up. I hope BJ sacks a few so they lose much of their nice pay cheque...

And BJ deserves his for the most amateurish strategy in political history ? 

 

Can you see the irony in you thinking he is in a position to sack people that have run circles round him ? 

 

How can a brexiteer with a straight face pin his colours to HMS Johnson ? Seriously 

[beautifulthailand99]

More Johnson horrors - 'girly swot Cameron' - wtff

 

In 2014, Mr Johnson called Mr Cameron a girly swot in an interview with the Daily Mail, because Mr Cameron got a first-class degree at Oxford University whereas Mr Johnson got a lesser degree mark.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-branded-david-cameron-girly-swot-leaked-document-reveals-11803807

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Bruntoid said:

Never let the opposition know you’re rattled - regroup, go again ????????

 

Allow me to throw you a bone - you’ve clearly lost the U.K. fight but Macron is your friend now - UK political peeps are seemingly of the opinion that an extension is a shoe in - however that appetite isn’t across the 27 nations.

 

So if Boris, or more importantly clueless Cummings can keep their mouths shut for 5 minutes, and actually offer nothing, they could get everything they’re after without the stress and embarrassment. 

 

If ONE nation says what’s the point, (and they would have a point), the U.K. comes out on Oct 31st - time to start brushing up on your french ????

yep  like champagne

[beautifulthailand99]

Sounds like Johnson is doubling down with Cumming's whilst Gove might be in the shallow end of a counter-coup to the coup. And this is Gove who would vote for WA without amendment aka vassalage state /BRINO. 

 

Laura Kuenssberg

 

@bbclaurak

·

8m

 

1. Not been in SW1 today, but a few snippets - concerns about direction of PM growing, fears among his allies he's ignoring any advice other than from Cummings da Costa - source says Johnson is meeting with those at Chevening tomorrow, no ministers going

2. Not confirmed by No 10-but unhappiness at senior levels about lack of consultation over no 10's moves - hear Gove apparently kept miinisters back for 'political chat', after XO meeting today - source says just a regular thing, but some definitely worried + feel excluded

Edited September 6, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[Airbagwill]

We know BJ is prepared to lie... We know he will trample on both constitution and convention. We know he wants to ignore parliament.... So no matter how many votes etc he loses, the country will not be safe until he and his cronies are removed from office. However not when he wants, but when parliament wants. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Airbagwill

[beautifulthailand99]

Another brilliant article in the FT from Max Hastings who as ever nails it. 

 

Max Hastings: Boris, Churchill and the implosion of the Tories - Amid a history of feuds, none compares with Boris Johnson’s expulsion of 21 Conservative rebels
 

Our society has lapsed into a period of madness which we should recognise as such — as do most foreign commentators viewing our affairs — wherein dangerous forces are in play. We shall be fortunate if we prove able to escape from it with only the implosion of one traditional political party, rather than with a collapse of confidence in our entire system of democracy.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/b6571af0-d003-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f

Edited September 6, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[tebee]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/will-boris-johnson-call-a-general-election-morten-morlands-animated-cartoon-rhjcv6sgz

[Laughing Gravy]

On 9/4/2019 at 11:05 AM, Bluespunk said:

 

 They certainly are and that is why brexiteers are so opposed to any new vote by the people on brexit. 

Its called a General Election but its the remainers who don't want one. That's a vote. Not ignored like in your country.

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Its called a General Election but its the remainers who don't want one. That's a vote. Not ignored like in your country.

They want one but oddly enough they don't trust BJ's promise to hold it on October 15. For some strange reason they suspect he might call for it to be held after October 31. Given Johnson's sterling reputation for honesty, their mistrust is entirely inexplicable.

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

Once the vote has been completed and we have either left the EU or revoked Article 50,

people have already voted on that though and they voted to leave the EU

[DannyCarlton]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

people have already voted on that though and they voted to leave the EU

Did they vote to leave under May's deal or no deal?

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

Did they vote to leave under May's deal or no deal?

leave.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

leave.

under May's deal or no deal?

[brewsterbudgen]

people have already voted on that though and they voted to leave the EU

He's talking about a new referendum. It makes sense to find out if a majority of people still feel as they did in 2016 now that the facts about Brexit are clearer.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Rookiescot]

Got this in an email.

 

Have to say it has a depressing reality to it.

 

Johnson is going to take this right to the wire with Brexit and resign a couple of days before exit day. This way there will be no-one in a position to ask for an extension and we will default to no deal because no other deal has been passed.

 

There will then be another Tory leadership contest which Johnson will win.

 

The ensuing general election will be won by the Conservatives due to Johnsons popularity with the Brexit fundamentalists south of the border.

 

Sturgeon will ask for another independence referendum which will be refused.

 

Sturgeon will then try going through the courts to get a ruling to say she can have one. This will go all the way to the supreme court in London and get thrown out.

Cant appeal to the EU court of human rights any more so independence is now kicked in the nuts.

Sturgeon will then try using the Holyrood elections as a defacto independence referendum which downing street will refuse to recognize.

Holyrood will be shut down by Westminster. 

 

We will then face a generation of misery as country after country strikes trade deals with the UK which allows them to come in and carpet bag everything they want.

Say goodbye to the NHS.

Northern Ireland will turn back into a war zone.

 

The UK will be turned into a tax haven for the rich and shameless while workers rights are destroyed. English nationalism will be celebrated and rewarded. Knighthoods and peerages for all the rabid Brexiteers. 

 

The pound will trade on parity with the Zimbabwean dollar.

 

Eventually in about 20 years someone will have a really good idea and demand a referendum about joining the EU.

[transam]

9 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Danny Carlton may not know but the thousands surveyed since do - let google be your friend. 

 

There is no appetite for the unfolding carnage - democracy in action.

 

As for the Corbyn comment - come on seriously ? - Corbyn has the keys to No 10 and has locked Bojo in - if you can’t see that you’re out of your depth here.

"Corby has the keys to number 10", did you not know he backed out of an election through fear..

The only ones that will vote for him are the ones that don't know about his back door stuff with terrorists....????

[sammieuk1]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

"Corby has the keys to number 10", did you not know he backed out of an election through fear..

The only ones that will vote for him are the ones that don't know about his back door stuff with terrorists....????

In fairness Gerry Adams is a nice terrorist these days And Yasser & Gadhafi have sadly departed ????

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Well I think you need a holiday..Bognor has no wifi....????

I'm sure you do....for the reasons I gave in the post you replied to. Thanks for the "confirmatory vote" 555

[brewsterbudgen]

58 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Got this in an email.

 

Have to say it has a depressing reality to it.

 

Johnson is going to take this right to the wire with Brexit and resign a couple of days before exit day. This way there will be no-one in a position to ask for an extension and we will default to no deal because no other deal has been passed.

 

There will then be another Tory leadership contest which Johnson will win.

 

The ensuing general election will be won by the Conservatives due to Johnsons popularity with the Brexit fundamentalists south of the border.

 

Sturgeon will ask for another independence referendum which will be refused.

 

Sturgeon will then try going through the courts to get a ruling to say she can have one. This will go all the way to the supreme court in London and get thrown out.

Cant appeal to the EU court of human rights any more so independence is now kicked in the nuts.

Sturgeon will then try using the Holyrood elections as a defacto independence referendum which downing street will refuse to recognize.

Holyrood will be shut down by Westminster. 

 

We will then face a generation of misery as country after country strikes trade deals with the UK which allows them to come in and carpet bag everything they want.

Say goodbye to the NHS.

Northern Ireland will turn back into a war zone.

 

The UK will be turned into a tax haven for the rich and shameless while workers rights are destroyed. English nationalism will be celebrated and rewarded. Knighthoods and peerages for all the rabid Brexiteers. 

 

The pound will trade on parity with the Zimbabwean dollar.

 

Eventually in about 20 years someone will have a really good idea and demand a referendum about joining the EU.

The option of Corbyn calling a vote of no confidence in Johnson's government is still there.  If the scenario you refer to is likely, the government will lose. And if the "Remain Alliance" can agree on a temporary Prime Minister, they will be able to form a government to extend Article 50.  Unfortunately the Remainers will need to accept Corbyn as PM, or Jeremy will need to accept a compromise candidate like Ken Clark or Margaret Beckett.  If the stakes are high enough, it could happen.