Expats keeping a phone number in their citizenship country (aka MagicJack not working).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

49 minutes ago, Pib said:

US Mobile does not have any international roaming for talk, text, or data when using their regular SIM--its purely for use in the U.S. unless you use a Wifi Calling connection for talk and text, OR you happen to have certain model eSIM (electronic SIM) phone then you can do international roaming with Data but still no talk or text.

 

Thanks Pib!  That's exactly what I thought as regards to US Mobile when used abroad with a regular (non-E) SIM.

 

So someone using their service/SIM can just turn off the mobile data setting on their phone and go wifi only, unless they have a dual SIM model and want mobile data via the other (2nd) SIM.

 

[Pib]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So someone using their service/SIM can just turn off the mobile data setting on their phone and go wifi only, unless they have a dual SIM model and want mobile data via the other (2nd) SIM.

 

Yea...with a dual SIM phone you also have some extra settings to designate which SIM you want Data to flow over (or not flow over).

[gamb00ler]

On 1/20/2021 at 2:55 PM, JimmyJ said:

"...like google along the lines of ""bank rejects VOIP based mobile numbers" and be provide a long list of people experiencing the problem."

 

I "qwant"ed that and noticed this in the results:

 

"A lot of these (like TextNow) won't accept short-code texting, which sites like FreeEat "https://www.reddit.com/r/beermoney/comments/2q234v/dont_want_to_use_your_phone_number_for/

 

Don't recall if I ever tried to receive a short code with Textnow.

 

I also see lots of sites unknown to me listed offering free (I think) numbers to receive bank codes etc.

 

 

Hmmm... I receive short-code texts from a US financial institution on my TextNow number.  Just to be sure that we are referring to the same type of SMS... the text's I'm referring to show the sender as 121212 for example.

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Hmmm... I receive short-code texts from a US financial institution on my TextNow number.  Just to be sure that we are referring to the same type of SMS... the text's I'm referring to show the sender as 121212 for example.

We are talking the type of text where a one time use security code is being provided.  It depends on the sender if the title of the text might include a number reference but it usually does based on my experience.

[gamb00ler]

 

3 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Hmmm... I receive short-code texts from a US financial institution on my TextNow number.  Just to be sure that we are referring to the same type of SMS... the text's I'm referring to show the sender as 121212 for example.

 

3 hours ago, Pib said:

We are talking the type of text where a one time use security code is being provided.  It depends on the sender if the title of the text might include a number reference but it usually does based on my experience.

I understand the context.  I think some companies do use short-code SMS to send the 2FA code.  I was responding to Jimmy J's concern that GV didn't work for senders using short-code SMS's.

 

I only recently learned what a short-code SMS looks like.  Instead of the sender looking like a normal 10-digit phone #, a shorter numeric code appears to be the source.  In my earlier post I used the 6-digit sequence 121212 as a short-code example.  The short code is not the message title.

[mtls2005]

FWIW, I have received ~ 20 2FA SMSes (most [18] are SCSMS, some are 10 digit [2]) on my GV in the past two days, from five different 'organizations".

 

I use 2FA daily for two service providers, both use SCSMS (some are 5 digit, some are 6 digit - always a pain as I often enter the SCSMS number rather than the 6-digit code cotained in the actual SMS). GV works fine, for me and my applications.

 

I can't get the Experian mobile app. to work though, it offers the SMS option but can't see where to accept it ("Call me" button is enabled though), so default to the security questions (requires US VPN connection).

 

I can never get the call me options to work, either with GV, or my T-Mo U.S. SIM roaming. I mean it works, but the IVR is halfway through the code by the time I can hear anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

Hopefully we agree that entities that use text short-code texts or regular texts for 2FA they can identify a VOIP-based number (i.e, GV, TextNow, Skype, Magic Jack, etc) if desired, and if a VOIP number, not allow its use for 2FA codes but may still allow the number for general purposes texts.    Whether an entity sends a 2FA security code via short-code text or regular text is really up to that entity but I expect there are reasons to prefer a short-code text coming from the entities short-code assigned/registered number. 

 

And whether it's a short-code or regular text is not a player in the entity deciding on whether to send a 2FA code to a certain number.  The entity would simply use a reverse number/number validation system to get details on the number to include what type it is such as landline, mobile, VOIP, etc., like the system at below webpage....but I'm sure some banks/companies go on contract with a number lookup system that provide number info specific to their requirements.  Like one requirement might be to not send logon 2FA codes to a VOIP number. 

 

However, use of a number lookup/validation system would cost the entity money and the entity may not be willing to incur that extra cost depending on their security policy, type of entity/business,  etc.   

 

And no doubt there are other technical details/control coding underlying/hidden to the receiver that can determine whether a text will be delivered to a certain number.    Kinda like the internet connection we are now using where we only see data meant to be shown on the screen but not the underlying control protocol which allows data to be seen on the screen/transmitted on the internet. 

 

https://realphonevalidation.com/

 

 

[Pib]

In my above post there is an acronym of TCPA...that stands for below:

 

Quote

 

What is the TCPA?

• TCPA refers to the Telephone Consumer Protection Act 47 U.S.C. § 227
• TCPA aims to eliminate repetitive, irrelevant, or excessively intrusive calling practices.
• The TCPA extends to all facets of outbound telephone contact, including but not limited to autodialed and manual phone calls, faxes, voice messages (both organic and automated), text messages and automatic dialing systems.

 

•  

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Interesting... I found and tried this number checker site:

 

https://www.phonevalidator.com/index.aspx

 

It correctly recognized....

--my MJ number as a MJ landline.

--my GV number as a VOIP number

--my $3 a month TM number as a TM mobile number.

 

 

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Interesting... I found and tried this number checker site:

 

https://www.phonevalidator.com/index.aspx

 

It correctly recognized....

--my MJ number as a MJ landline.

--my GV number as a VOIP number

--my $3 a month TM number as a TM mobile number.

 

 

Ditto results for me using my Magic Jack, Google Voice, and TM $3/month mobile numbers

 

it's easy for a bank/company to determine what kind of number your are using....that is VOIP, mobile, landline, etc.    Then if the bank's policy is not to send 2FA codes to VOIP and landlines, then they don't even offer to send the 2FA codes or it appears to be sent but is not really sent.

 

One reason it easy to companies to determine what kind number you have is because numbers have a registering authority (ies) to control the distribution of numbers....usually by blocks of numbers.  Kinda like the registration of website sites/domains, IP addresses, etc., they are not handed out willy-nilly....there is a controlled process otherwise we would have duplicate phone numbers among phone companies and basically no central control.    And as part of that registration process the type of line (i.e., VOIP, landline, mobile, etc) is included.

[JimmyJ]

19 hours ago, Pib said:

You just make sure your mobile connection is off by turning on Airplane Mode which kills your mobile and Wifi connection completely...at the top of your phone you'll see the little Airplane icon appear.  Then you turn back on your Wifi connection....you'll then see your Wifi connection come back but your mobile connection is still deactivate with Airplane mode turned on.  You phone now has a Wifi connection only; no mobile connection.  

 

The only way to get your mobile connection back is to turn off Airplane mode.    Only takes a second or two to turn Airplane mode on and off.   

 

Thank you for the explanation.

 

I always thought Airplane mode shuts down everything including all Wifi.

 

 

I always had Wifi calling enabled in Ultra Paygo and Ting as well as my Android.

 

MJ does not accept short code (short number) texts.

 

 

[JimmyJ]

15 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

 

 

I understand the context.  I think some companies do use short-code SMS to send the 2FA code.  I was responding to Jimmy J's concern that GV didn't work for senders using short-code SMS's.

 

I only recently learned what a short-code SMS looks like.  Instead of the sender looking like a normal 10-digit phone #, a shorter numeric code appears to be the source.  In my earlier post I used the 6-digit sequence 121212 as a short-code example.  The short code is not the message title.

"I think some companies do use short-code SMS to send the 2FA code."

 

Most financial institutions use short codes to send (Pib - i.e., send from a  phone # less than 10 digits, usually 4 - 6).

 

"I was responding to Jimmy J's concern that GV didn't work for senders using short-code SMS's"

 

It may have been TextNow I had read that about -  e.g. the Reddit post I quoted earlier.

[DFPhuket]

I just looked at my Ting bills for the past few months and they have been US$11. It's $6 for the line, $3 for up to 100 SMS's, plus some taxes and fees. My US financial accounts require SMS one time passwords (OTPs) sent to a US phone number and I get about a dozen or so per month. Ting includes both sent and received SMSs in their total. 

 

I have an iPhone X. It's a dual SIM so I have DTAC as my electronic SIM and Ting as my SIM card. I don't use Ting for voice calls while overseas since when I do need to call, I use Skype - which is free for 1-800 numbers and cheap for other calls. For me, Ting is a cheap and easy way to keep a US phone number I can immediately use when I land in the US - which I used to do a lot pre-Covid.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, DFPhuket said:

I just looked at my Ting bills for the past few months and they have been US$11. It's $6 for the line, $3 for up to 100 SMS's, plus some taxes and fees.

 

That's pretty much the identical situation with me and Ting.

 

One advantage with Ting is that financial entities seem to recognize their numbers more as traditional mobile provider numbers and accept their use for SMSs... compared to even providers like TM $3, Paygo and such.

 

A couple of disadvantages with Ting are/can be:

--they can be pretty tough at sign up in terms of accepting new accounts, and pretty finicky about where they're willing to mail SIM kits to (they don't like mail forwarding addresses).

--they've recently changed to a new pricing framework for all new customers (although existing customers have the option of keeping their old pricing plans).

--supposedly, they have now a requirement that you have service with them for several months BEFORE they'll allow wifi calling on your account (although that wasn't in force when I signed up with them a couple years back).

 

For me, Ting is kinda like my last line of defense, when nothing else will be accepted for financial entity verification codes -- Google Voice, TextNow, MagicJack, TM $3 a month, etc.

 

That's why I hold onto and continuing paying for the Ting monthly service, even though there are free and/cheaper alternatives available when it comes to just regular calling and text messaging.

 

And indeed, it's original pricing plans are a very good deal for those past, almost forgotten times when I could travel back to the U.S. and need mobile data and calling right out of the airport at a fair price.

 

No U.S. mobile data capability with the TM $3 plan (unless you buy a very expensive and limited use add-on data pass), MagicJack, Google Voice or the regular wifi version of TextNow.

 

[Pib]

On 1/19/2021 at 2:21 PM, Pib said:

 

......Below are some examples of USM monthly cost data for various combination of Talk/Text/Data as they use an ala-carte plan model you can change monthly if desired...lot more combinations possible....these are just a few for example.   Remember, you can not make a "mobile connection" outside the USM with the SIM so including DATA in your monthly plan would be a waste outside fo the U.S.   Since you would be using a "Wifi Calling" Wifi connection outside of Thailand for Talk and Text mobile Data is not used/needed as you have a data connection via your Wifi connection. 

 

The USM $2 service fee on any plan along with the Govt regulatory fee can sure add a big percentage of cost when going for a low quantity of minutes/texts/data each month....less of a percentage but still very significant as you choose higher quantity talks/texts/data combinations.  If getting the USM SIM simply to receive a few texts each month like 2FA security codes to logon to websites like your U.S. online banking then the $4.48/month plan should be fine.  You can switch plans each month when you prepay for the upcoming billing month...you can also select monthly AutoPay so you don't forget to pay for your upcoming month.

 

Examples of Monthly Plan Combinations

TALK Min/Cost     TEXT/Cost      DATA/Cost      SERVICE FEE   REGULATORY FEE   TOTAL/Month

 -       0 / $0.00         50 / $1.50        0MB / $0.00        $2.00                   $0.98                      $4.48

 -    75 / $2.00          50 / $1.50       0MB / $0.00        $2.00                   $1.57                       $7.07

 -    75 / $2.00          50 / $1.50     50MB / $1.50        $2.00                   $1.57                       $8.57

-   150 / $3.00        100 / $2.00   100MB / $2.00       $2.00                   $1.57                     $10.57

-   300 / $4.00        300 / $3.00   100MB / $2.00       $2.00                   $2.48                     $13.48

- 1000 / $6.00     1000 / $4.00        2GB / $10.00      $2.00                   $3.31                     $25.31

 

 

 

Above is a partial quote of my earlier post on US Mobile...and where I said for my first month  for texting purposes I chose an ala carte plan of 75 talk minutes and 50 texts which with fees/taxes totals $7.07/month....this was the lowest number of talk & text I could choose.  But I was thinking for the following billing month  which begin mid Feb to switch to just 50 texts which with fees/taxes totals $4.48. 

 

While surfing around in my USM online acct I noticed there is a "snooze" function where you can basically put your number to sleep and only pay $2.98/month until you reactivate the acct....this consists of the USM $2 service fee and a $0.98 regulatory fee.  As I'm using USM as a backup to a backup mobile number (i.e., piece of mind) I just may put my acct in "snooze" status for the upcoming month(s).   When/if I need to start using the USM number I just reactivate/un-snooze my number.

 

 

[JimmyJ]

Am I the only one paying magicJack an annual renewal fee for using the app?

I don't have a landline and can't imagine ever getting one so the phone connector is useless to me unless I want to attach it to my computer but I would never feel comfortable giving that access to that company.

 

I've had the phone app with the same # for years and always pay - I'm sure I'd been told or read that it is necessary to keep one's number.

 

But someone on another forum stated he's had his for years and has never paid them anything - just did the free download once and that is it.

 

It's still my primary # so can't lose it.

[mtls2005]

On 1/24/2021 at 1:36 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Interesting... I found and tried this number checker site:

 

https://www.phonevalidator.com/index.aspx

 

 

I'm not sure that these sorts of services accurately reflect the current status of one's 'number', if you've ported out.

 

For one of my numbers, which has been ported twice since I first obtained it ~ 25 years ago, it shows as the original provider.

 

As Pib points out 

On 1/24/2021 at 1:53 PM, Pib said:

One reason it easy to companies to determine what kind number you have is because numbers have a registering authority (ies) to control the distribution of numbers....usually by blocks of numbers. 

 

these lookups use the original blocks of numbers as sold. Of course, since then millions of folks have ported out to other providers.

 

I'm not seeing banks, or their bulk SMS providers, scrubbing numbers daily, and for what, to remove/block VoIP numbers? Why? Their main concern is communicating with their customers.

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

 

 

I'm not sure that these sorts of services accurately reflect the current status of one's 'number', if you've ported out.

 

For one of my numbers, which has been ported twice since I first obtained it ~ 25 years ago, it shows as the original provider.

 

As Pib points out 

 

these lookups use the original blocks of numbers as sold. Of course, since then millions of folks have ported out to other providers.

 

I'm not seeing banks, or their bulk SMS providers, scrubbing numbers daily, and for what, to remove/block VoIP numbers? Why? Their main concern is communicating with their customers.

 

 

 

I doubt these free online services are 100% accurate and their websites even says that in their fine print.  But I expect they are pretty accurate and I expect paid validation systems that banks/companies use to validate a number provide even better accuracy....use multiple data sources and technical ways to determine actual phone type.  

 

I've only ported one number....and that was from a VOIP company to another VOIP company.  When I looked up that number in the validator link TallGay gave it correctly identifies it as a VOIP number but for phone company it does not provide the VOIP company's name but simply says U.S. for United States.   Expect when the validator don't know the company they just enter what country the phone number is assigned to.

 

Was the number you ported still identified as the correct type....that is, mobile, landline, or VOIP?

 

While being able to communicate with customers is definitely any company's concern they have multiple ways of doing that...via snail mail, email, and various phone types.  By various phone types I mean where they allow entry of a home, work, and/or mobile number in your profile. 

 

Additionally not allowing a certain type of number...like a VOIP number....does not prevent the bank from  communicating with their customer like calling, sending general purpose info, etc.  However, the bank may not allowing a certain number type for 2FA short-codes but allow it--like a VOIP number--for all other forms of communications..   Three of my banks are that way....they will send general info to my VOIP number, but will not send a 2FA short-code to it....not even offer it to send a 2FA code to....but as mentioned they send general purpose info to it.

[Catkiwi]

I don't know if this would work wioth your USA number but for my NZ number, I keep the account alive and when I want to do some banking I go online with the telco and pay for 1 day international roaming, sms, data & voice. That way I can receive OTP for transactions or call the help line there if something goes wrong. Maybe worth a try.

[JimmyJ]

Just tried the phone validator link.

 

It identified my MJ VOIP # as a Landline.

 

It was assigned to me by MJ and was never ported out and back  by me.

 

I wish all businesses were using this validator site.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Just tried the phone validator link.

 

It identified my MJ VOIP # as a Landline.

 

It was assigned to me by MJ and was never ported out and back  by me.

 

I wish all businesses were using this validator site.

For TallGuy and I our MJ number identified as a landline also.  Unfortunately, being identified as a landline or VOIP number doesn't help a person needing a mobile number to receive 2FA short codes if the entity sending the short code first checks to ensure the phone type is a mobile number vs landline/VOIP number.

[mtls2005]

It seems like people who've ported a mobile number out to GV are 100% good to go. They still 'validate' as a mobile number.

 

I seriously doubt if numbers are validated much past the original block of numbers. I know my original mobile number shows as a block issued last century, after being ported twice. And I'm not sure what consumer protections may be in place re: delving into someone's number provider?

 

 

15 hours ago, Pib said:

Unfortunately, being identified as a landline or VOIP number doesn't help a person needing a mobile number to receive 2FA short codes

 

Some 2FA I use do offer the "call me" option. IME, that does work with mobile, VoIP and land-lines. With GV you'll have to turn off screening.

 

Looking back over ~ 1 year of GV SMSes I see 2FAs from AirBNB, PayPal, Priceline, NETA, Bank 1, Bank 2, CC 1, CC2, CC3, CC4, Bank 3, FinServ 1, Quicken, TaxAct, CPB.gov (Global Entry renewal). I can't recall a single issue with 2FA and GV, since about three years ago.

 

All that said, I plan to get a US Mobile SIM with a $2/75 min + $2/100 texts, as backup.

 

Note that Talkatone needs to be used every ~ 30 days. I usually send a text between Talkatone and my two GV numbers to satisfy thise usage requirement.

 

 

Does anyone use WiFi calling with T-Mobile PAYG here?

 

Does anyone use the T-Mobile DIGITS app here?

 

Is it easy to add a new mobile contact number? How do they verify that it is you?

 

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Does anyone use WiFi calling with T-Mobile PAYG here?

 

The T-mobile Paygo $3/month SIM does not work with Wifi Calling based on my testing; only a mobile connection.  And there is no place in the Paygo $3/month SIM online acct to turn on Wifi Calling if it needs to activated on the carrier's end.   

 

For TMobile  SIMs/plans that do support Wifi Calling they tend to have an online acct setting where you activate Wifi Calling and enter your e911 address at the same time.

 

[Nout]

On 9/6/2019 at 4:48 AM, JimmyJ said:

Living abroad but keeping an identity in one's home country.

 

Thanks to a helpful person in these forums, I started using MagicJack's phone app, which gives me a US VOIP phone number.

Currently and for the last few years that is the phone number I use with all my accounts including especially financial and government.

 I also pay a US carrier for one of their phone numbers, which I use for everything else including all my calls. The MJ is an app on that phone so it's one phone with it's own number plus the MJ app with its own number on the same phone.

 

Periodically the MJ app would not work, but uninstall/reinstall would usually resolve it.

Then a periodic issue began where phone calls would go direct to voicemail. When that occurred, texts would not arrive.

I'd have to chat with cs, and it would get resolved by refreshing on their end, or they deactivating/reactivating it.

 

Two days ago I woke up, and was logged out of the app which is not normal.

Since then, I have the direct to voicemail problem, but this time cs could not fix it.

I looked at Play Store, and from the reviews everyone posting there is having this problem.

Also, it's usually about a 15 - 20 minute wait to get on the Live Chat. Yesterday, it was 83 people ahead of me, and 90 minute wait.

And they couldn't fix it.

 

This is very alarming, and I'm wondering if anyone has any phone app or other method that is working that they recommend.

I need a USA phone number with my USA area code that can receive texts, and that can receive US phone calls.

 

The big issue is that it's unfortunately become common for financial companies not to use email to send verification codes any more for logging in or making account changes, but to insist on sending a texted code to one's phone number.

 

I'm realizing that if this had happened while I was abroad, it could be very difficult to resolve and bank accounts could end up frozen as it would appear suspicious understandably.

 

The big advantage of MagicJack is that I had a (usually) working USA phone # that could receive texts and could make and receive USA phone calls from anywhere for $45 USD/year total.

 

Even if I can find a working app, this could happen in the future to any of them.

I'm thinking now of keeping my USA phone # active - it's with a major US carrier.

Unfortunately, I just called and the cheapest plan would be including tax about $45 per month. And I would use that just to receive the verification texts and on the occasions when I have to call a bank/cc in the US, or if they need to call me.

Meanwhile I have a spare (2nd) phone, and would use that with a Thai SIM for local Thai calling, data, etc. - everything except phone dealings with US banks/cc's/etc.

 

So I'd be spending about $540/year (plus something like 20 cents/text, and 20 cents/minute for voice calls) vs. $45 per year with MagicJack. That would be the cost of keeping my US identity with banks, credit cards, US gov't.

 

This is now the 2nd day of MJ not working. I'm going to give it about a week at most, and if MJ is still not working, call up all and switch phone #'s - which could become a big hassle in itself since they won't be able to call the phone number they currently have for me to verify it's me. But at least I'm in the US and if necessary could go to a branch of a bank if they wanted in person to show id (for the ones that are local - but I'm using many internet only banks, and they tend to be the most paranoid).

 

Eager for any potential solutions, ways to resolve it for a lower cost, etc.

 

How do you do deal with this?

I know some people have someone to field calls for them in the US, but even so, what happens when the bank wants to speak to you to verify something or you need to call and speak to the bank?

I keep a UK account number. 5 quid a month..

[Pib]

I just checked my new US Mobile number against the phone validator website given earlier and it says it's a T-Mobile cell phone.   Makes sense as I used the US Mobile "GSM" LTE SIM which uses the T-Mobile network.

[taxout]

I've lately encountered instances -- like the IRS -- where they want a "mobile phone number associated with your name." Whatever that means.

Using Ting, USM etc has anyone had problems with this sort of requirement?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 3/18/2021 at 9:18 AM, taxout said:

I've lately encountered instances -- like the IRS -- where they want a "mobile phone number associated with your name." Whatever that means.

Using Ting, USM etc has anyone had problems with this sort of requirement?

 

 

I haven't encountered that particular issue with the IRS... Though for all my IRS related matters, I've always use my MJ # and that's never been an issue... Though I don't recall the IRS ever wanting/needing to send me an SMS code for anything.

But as for the broader issue, I think that kind of language you cite generally ends up meaning they're looking for a traditional mobile account where the accountholder is billed to a set billing address....

In the few instances where I've encountered that in the past, my Ting number seemed to suffice.  In my dealing on such things, I always try my GV number first, and then if that fails my TM $3 number, and then if that fails, my Ting number as a last resort. I've only had to use my Ting number in such cases just a few rare times.

 

[JimmyJ]

I likewise list my MJ # for the IRS and indeed all US Gov. agencies with no issues.

 

Have never been called or texted by any of those agencies.

[taxout]

That particular IRS rule I mentioned applies if you want to sign up to be able to see your tax account online. Unfortunately, that's not the only problem if you want to use that service, since you also can't sign up for it if you used a foreign address on your most recent return.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 3/19/2021 at 3:03 PM, taxout said:

That particular IRS rule I mentioned applies if you want to sign up to be able to see your tax account online. Unfortunately, that's not the only problem if you want to use that service, since you also can't sign up for it if you used a foreign address on your most recent return.

 

I guess that's another good reason to add to the list for always using my U.S. address for all U.S. government and financial matters, and never using my TH address for such things.

PS - Do you have a link for the particular IRS sign-up deal you're talking about?

 

FWIW, I just renewed my EFTPS federal payments account/service for the 2000 tax year, and that one they actually insist on paper mailing you a needed account code to your postal address that you end up needing to have and use in order to log-in and make any payments thru that system.