Old habits die hard: Stores try to cut down on plastic bags, but shoppers remain stubborn

[brianthainess]

On 9/8/2019 at 7:41 AM, ChipButty said:

Bag of chips small one the other day in 7 plastic bag, I said no need

2 lt bottle of milk comes with a plastic straw and bag.

[HHTel]

13 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Not true your thinking of oxo-degradable plastic....Not the same as a true biodegradable ....

Many people think that buying 'biodegradable' plastic bags solves the problem.

However, If in landfill or sea, they will not biodegrade at all.  When your rubbish is collected by the trucks, it usually goes to landfill.

Secondly, there are also 'compostable' plastic bags. Biodegradable and compostable plastic cannot be mixed as both need a different environment to degrade.

 

Using an alternative to plastic bags is the only solution.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

No, I use taxis. But tell you what, I'll ask for extra plastic bags each and every time I shop now, while thinking of you and your like.

Grow up.

[Daffy D]

We have one of those heavy duty bags they sell at Macro (red color about 20bt)

 

Have the Macro bag in the trolley at checkout and put bulky items in there, you'll save at least half the plastic bags you normally would use.

 

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Many people think that buying 'biodegradable' plastic bags solves the problem.

However, If in landfill or sea, they will not biodegrade at all.  When your rubbish is collected by the trucks, it usually goes to landfill.

Secondly, there are also 'compostable' plastic bags. Biodegradable and compostable plastic cannot be mixed as both need a different environment to degrade.

 

Using an alternative to plastic bags is the only solution.

Serious question, What is wrong with plastic in landfill, its an inert substance, doesn't leech chemicals etc. What would be the difference between a house brick in landfill and a piece of plastic same size, in landfill ?

[HHTel]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Serious question, What is wrong with plastic in landfill, its an inert substance, doesn't leech chemicals etc. What would be the difference between a house brick in landfill and a piece of plastic same size, in landfill ?

Quote

Most of the rest ends up in landfills where it may take up to 500 years to decompose, and potentially leak pollutants into the soil and water. 

 

[canopy]

53 minutes ago, Humpy said:

There's no problem with the use of plastic bags. The problem is the way users dispose of them and how they are recycled 

There is big problem you may not be aware of: plastic manufacturing pollution. When plastic is produced, it’s made from toxic materials known to cause cancer and these manufacturing byproducts contaminate the air, water, and earth in mind boggling quantities. The type of plastic that is the major source of dioxin is PVC.  Phthalates are another toxic chemical added to plastics to make them softer and more pliable. It is known to affect our fertility, disrupt our endocrine glands, birth defects and other health problems. The problem with phthalate is that they are not chemically bound to the products, so they’re easily evaporated into the air. That new “plastic” smell is the smell of phthalates off-gassing. Do you still really want plastic bags?

 

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, Av8rDave said:

So instead of reusing these lightweight plastic bags for trash, now you expect us to go out and buy heavy-duty trash bags. Those take much longer to biodegrade than the cheap lightweight ones. Eco-nuts never consider the negative end-result of their feel-good ideas.

Who's saying anything about "heavy-duty trash bags" here?

 

Plenty reusable polyester, ripstop fold-flat bags on the internet. I have door pockets on the back doors of the pickup and there's room for 4 folded bags in each one.

 

Yes, we are aware that polyester or nylon is also a plastic and even less biodegrade than the standard Bic C bag but here's a clue...

 

RE-USABLE

Edited September 9, 2019 by NanLaew

[canopy]

27 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Plenty reusable polyester, ripstop fold-flat bags

I am firmly against reusable plastics because they must be manufactured and disposed which doesn't solve any problems. It's just another form of reduction yet there will be billions and billions of them. We can do better than that.

 

The fact is there are alternatives right now today to plastic made from beeswax, bamboo, hemp, paper, banana leaves, canvas, whey, and many others that can do a better job than plastic can. There are both disposable and reusable types. Why on earth wouldn't everyone demand this? They work better flapping in the rain on your motorcycle than plastic bags that shred and dump your contents on the road. They hold your hot tum yum goong better. They hold in your kitchen dumpster with wet things better. They hold mangoes and sticky rice better. For everything you name in plastic I can show you a natural alternative that works better. But no, you will go kicking and screaming demanding your polluting, environmentally damaging plastic bags every step of the way making yourself and animals sick. There is simply no rational justification for this.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by canopy

[kiwikeith]

On 9/8/2019 at 11:02 AM, bdenner said:

Our local Tesco has tried to introduce large brown paper bags on 3 occasions I know of. Customers seem to be OK with them but the checkout staff get very frustrated trying to unfold and pack them.

 

Stores like Makro will not allow you to carry reusable carry bags with you into their stores so one has to go through their bullshlt method of placing items from one trolley into another as they are being checked out then repacking in the boot of the car. These effin wackers are not trying to help the situation

NZ has just outlawed plastic bags in supermarkets, although the small ones for veges are still allowed.

The stores sell  reusable carry bags complete with advertising for $1.00

You do notice a big difference already.

Thailand should follow suit.

 

Plastic is a scourge of the earth, which is under threat world wide.

Clean and green NZ has a disgusting amount of it in rivers and coastlines, not counting the <deleted> in land fills that takes over 500 years to break down.

Just recently a flood washed out a old land fill near a river down south and the mess is going to take years to clean up, the plastic that was washed out of the landfill.

[0815]

7/11 ????
A plastic strawer with each 1 liter bottle of milk.
6 plastic spoons for 6 cups of yoghurt.
All packed in 2 plastic bags....

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

The fact is there are alternatives right now today to plastic made from beeswax, bamboo, hemp, paper, banana leaves, canvas, whey, and many others

And these are on the shelves at wholesalers in Thailand for the conscientious food retailers in Thailand to buy for their conscientious and planet loving Thai customers?

[canopy]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

And these are on the shelves at wholesalers in Thailand for the conscientious food retailers in Thailand to buy for their conscientious and planet loving Thai customers?

Exactly right. Nobody here cares from government to retailer to consumer. Every so often people wave their hands about reducing plastic and nothing really happens. Reduction is just such a small, meaningless step that solves absolutely nothing for some sort of false "we can all feel good now" impact I don't exactly understand.

 

[FarFlungFalang]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

And these are on the shelves at wholesalers in Thailand for the conscientious food retailers in Thailand to buy for their conscientious and planet loving Thai customers?

They will be once some of the smarter Thai entrepreneurs realise there is a profit in it or if the elite can make a profit from some sort of corrupt practice which must be what they're working on before such a scheme can be implemented as with most of the schemes implemented here.

[RJRS1301]

4 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I make you right on that Thaigreg. But where is the problem? The world moves on. Plastics are a modern technology that is a great boon for modern living and a source of employment for millions.

 

Mosquitoes kill half a million people each year and some are concerned about a few bits of plastic. People should have more pride in their surroundings and stop chucking out their rubbish. Educate people right from the start; whilst they are toddlers. and in kindergarten. 

 

Long live the plastic bag I say; a boon to transporting koi carp around the world.

 

 

 

 

I hope it was only the link that comes through, but plastic bags are one part of the problem, end use disposal is the big issue

[RJRS1301]

12 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

And these are on the shelves at wholesalers in Thailand for the conscientious food retailers in Thailand to buy for their conscientious and planet loving Thai customers?

I would have thought the enterprising Thai manufacturers would have been doing it a long time ago 

Available in many countries

[NanLaew]

14 minutes ago, canopy said:

Exactly right. Nobody here cares from government to retailer to consumer. Every so often people wave their hands about reducing plastic and nothing really happens. Reduction is just such a small, meaningless step that solves absolutely nothing for some sort of false "we can all feel good now" impact I don't exactly understand.

 

Beyond Whole Foods and the paper sack option that's been available in US grocery stores for many years, how are they as first worlders and influencers, managing to counter the plastic epidemic?

[NanLaew]

16 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

They will be once some of the smarter Thai entrepreneurs realise there is a profit in it or if the elite can make a profit from some sort of corrupt practice which must be what they're working on before such a scheme can be implemented as with most of the schemes implemented here.

Possible, but I would think that CP All, as owners of 7-eleven Thailand and arguably the most profligate of Thai plastic waste producers, would be the ones with enough money to LEAD this pan-industry and pan-global packaging revolution rather than recycle their platitudes about what they claim their convenience store sales staff are doing to reduce plastic waste? I mean as Asia's fourth-wealthiest family with a net worth of US$36.6 billion, you would hope they would be investing in Thailand's future economic and environmental health like there's no tomorrow wouldn't you?

[canopy]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

how are they as first worlders and influencers, managing to counter the plastic epidemic?

In California covered stores may not distribute any bag that is not a certified reusable grocery bag or recycled paper bag at a point of sale.

 

In Europe they are pressing ahead with bans on single-use plastics of all types. Plastic straws will be banned in England from April 2020.

 

In some countries plastic bags are already illegal. Get caught with a plastic bag in Kenya and face a 1 million baht fine. Not something you want in your carry on.

 

 

[Gramps]

Wife: "We should take a bag to the supermarket so we don't have to use the plastic ones"

Me:  "But we use the supermarket bags as bin liners to put our garbage in"

Wife: "That's OK, we can buy plastic bin liners at the supermarket":

 

Problem solved!

[NanLaew]

25 minutes ago, canopy said:

In California covered stores may not distribute any bag that is not a certified reusable grocery bag or recycled paper bag at a point of sale.

 

In Europe they are pressing ahead with bans on single-use plastics of all types. Plastic straws will be banned in England from April 2020.

 

In some countries plastic bags are already illegal. Get caught with a plastic bag in Kenya and face a 1 million baht fine. Not something you want in your carry on.

 

 

Norway's Insanely Efficient Scheme Recycles 97% of All Plastic Bottles They Use

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/norway-s-recycling-scheme-is-so-effective-92-percent-of-plastic-bottles-can-be-reused

[RideJocky]

Here we go again, the shops trying to pin the issue of plastics on the consumer. This problem is solvable but it requires strong will from the big corps to actually do something about it rather than just keep coming up with all these bs slogans that they do just to make it appear as though they care. Ban plastic from every shop, yes there will be grumbles at first, and eventually everyone will fall in line. When there's a will, there's a way. Maybe during the twice daily propaganda push at 8am and 6pm they can follow it up with a Communist sounding song about how great the environment is, how bad plastics are and that all plastics must be defeated for the good of the people, country and religion.

Yes, it’s the big corporations’ fault, not the fault of people littering.

So rather than punish the people littering, let’s punish everyone and blame the punishment on the big corporations.

Meanwhile, the people currently littering will continue to litter with whatever expensive crappy replacement we get.






“Them what bite, gonna get bit. Them what don’t bite, gonna damn sure get ate up” JDH ‘77

[RideJocky]

Serious question, What is wrong with plastic in landfill, its an inert substance, doesn't leech chemicals etc. What would be the difference between a house brick in landfill and a piece of plastic same size, in landfill ?

Don’t worry, they’ll be round for your bricks once their obsession with plastic bags dies down.





“Them what bite, gonna get bit. Them what don’t bite, gonna damn sure get ate up” JDH ‘77

[Vacuum]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

What would be the difference between a house brick in landfill and a piece of plastic same size, in landfill ?

Not much, but if you by "landfill" include sois where the locals dump their waste. They're an eyesore until the land owner start to bild something on the plot.

[Fred white]

17 hours ago, Max69xl said:

It's not possible to cease manufacturing plastic bags without anything to replace them with. 

They have something to replace them with it's called paper bags

[canopy]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Serious question, What is wrong with plastic in landfill

Good question. It's a matter of time before making holes and filling them with garbage doesn't work. First problem is you can run out of space, just ask Phuket. Or once we consume all the type of something that we dumped in big holes we must use something else and repeat until there is nothing left worth using on the earth and the surface of the earth becomes barren with nothing more than a bunch of holes with garbage inside. It's a dead end.

 

Contrast this with nature that we were a part of until just a few generations ago. There is no waste in nature. Everything produced by nature is consumed by nature. There are no landfills for elephant bones, dead leaves, or animal waste. Absolutely everything is used again and again to the benefit of the ecology. This is a healthy circular system that is necessary to live on the earth in a sustainable way. Instead what we are doing with plastic is consuming limited natural resources meanwhile poisoning ourselves and the environment to save a buck, filling giant holes with garbage and have succeeded in polluting every single ocean with poison and garbage, and the rate at which we are doing such things is rising. Amazingly, nobody really cares so it's a non issue to our generation.

 

[wayned]

9 minutes ago, Fred white said:

They have something to replace them with it's called paper bags

I think that you will find that one of the main reason that they went from paper to plastic is that it takes trees to make paper which is a problem.

 

[Max69xl]

15 minutes ago, Fred white said:

They have something to replace them with it's called paper bags

Let the US continue with paper bags. They put them in the trunk of the car and off they go.

It won't work here. 

[canopy]

1 minute ago, wayned said:

I think that you will find that one of the main reason that they went from paper to plastic is that it takes trees to make paper which is a problem.

It comes down to cost. It's the same reason the world switched from real vanilla to a bottle of brown chemicals, from stainless steel to silver colored plastic, or copper to plastic pipes. In the consumer market cheaper always wins. Plastic is cheap. So cheap it's cheaper to make a new one than recycle something.

 

Paper, recycled paper in particular, is making a comeback in areas with environmental concern.

 

[Max69xl]

2 minutes ago, canopy said:

It comes down to cost. It's the same reason the world switched from real vanilla to a bottle of brown chemicals, from stainless steel to silver colored plastic, or copper to plastic pipes. In the consumer market cheaper always wins. Plastic is cheap. So cheap it's cheaper to make a new one than recycle something.

 

Paper, recycled paper in particular, is making a comeback in areas with environmental concern.

 

Don't forget where you are and how it works here. The amount of stores,local markets with everything and street vendors make it almost impossible to use paper bags.