UK's worst-case no-deal Brexit plan warns of food shortages, public disorder

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

No....because they were twelve.....i suppose you want to rip up the Magna Carta because you weren't unformed about that either.

 

Is that a response? Or did someone get the cheeseboard out?

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Powell was very popular; particular with the right of his party.

 

How was Heath telling us that joining the EC would require some loss of sovereignty lying through his teeth?

 

But it wasn't just Heath and Powell who were telling us all this at the time; as the Telegraph article makes clear.

 

BTW, the Telegraph is not known as the Torygraph for nothing. Plus it supported Brexit before the referendum and still does.

 

If you can't believe what your own side tells you, what can you believe?

You are wrong so often even I can hardly believe it. Heath was a Tory:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/heres-where-britains-newspapers-stand-on-the-eu-referendum/

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Powell was not unpopular amongst the working classes,there wer e marches by Dockers in support of him just like the working classes who have suffered through our membership to the eu. And voted leave.

I remember his support but, in 1971, he was broadly unpopular and not widely listened to. The age of PC had dawned after his "rivers of blood" speech had upset so many people.  

[MRToMRT]

Am just back from Newcastle. My take is that nobody (man on street) really cares about Brexit, what they are now <deleted> off at is having their TVs full of lying, deceitful politicians who never answer a single question and just spew their own brand of puerile narrative and/or rhetoric.

I was so saddened to see that none of the politicians care about anything else except their own parties narrative and their own power. Watched parliament, what a shower of terds. 

So sad.

 

 

[7by7]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You are wrong so often even I can hardly believe it. Heath was a Tory:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/heres-where-britains-newspapers-stand-on-the-eu-referendum/

 

Yes, I know Heath was a Tory; where have I said otherwise?

 

In case you haven't noticed, Johnson and Rees-Mogg are Tories, too!

 

How does you providing a link which confirms what I said about the Telegraph's position on Brexit prove me wrong?

 

You've really lost the plot!

[oldhippy]

Meanwhile, today, Boris demonstrates his negociating skills at this joint press conference with the Luxemburg PM.

 

 

[kingdong]

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I remember his support but, in 1971, he was broadly unpopular and not widely listened to. The age of PC had dawned after his "rivers of blood" speech had upset so many people.  

Think Powell's popularity depended on the circles you moved in .at the time,there was nothing like the levels of immigration there are today,I was living in South London at the time

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, I know Heath was a Tory; where have I said otherwise?

 

In case you haven't noticed, Johnson and Rees-Mogg are Tories, too!

 

How does you providing a link which confirms what I said about the Telegraph's position on Brexit prove me wrong?

 

You've really lost the plot!

Heath was a Tory. How can you possibly say that we have not lost any sovereignty? Especially after all this? 

[kingdong]

36 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I remember his support but, in 1971, he was broadly unpopular and not widely listened to. The age of PC had dawned after his "rivers of blood" speech had upset so many people.  

Interesting now with hindsight to look at his "rivers of blood" speech.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Meanwhile, today, Boris demonstrates his negociating skills at this joint press conference with the Luxemburg PM.

 

 

You have conveniently omitted to mention that this was "set up" right next to a very loud bunch of anti British protesters. Can't blame him. Waste of time. They could have easily done this inside. Poor show. 

 

 

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Interesting now with hindsight to look at his "rivers of blood" speech.

Have we had "rivers of blood" in the UK?

[Loiner]

I remember his support but, in 1971, he was broadly unpopular and not widely listened to. The age of PC had dawned after his "rivers of blood" speech had upset so many people.  

The left had started the vilification of old Knocker early on. Johnny Speight was already ‘on point’ with their ‘Till Death Us Do Part” brainwashing message from the mid-sixties.
Who’d have guessed that it would develop into the full weight PC culture.

[Loiner]

Meanwhile, today, Boris demonstrates his negociating skills at this joint press conference with the Luxemburg PM.
 

Love it. Boris gave them a body swerve. Not going to get caught in from of Remainer rent-a-mob. He’s a big lad for throwing a dummy, but he’s obviously a step ahead of this amateur.

[Loiner]

Have we had "rivers of blood" in the UK?

The streets of London are pretty sticky with it most mornings, or even early evenings. They are over 100 so far this year.

[Laughing Gravy]

8 hours ago, wilcopops said:

Yet again a Brexiteer invokes the "D" word without actually knowing what it means.

It means a democratic binary referendum which happened in 2016 and leave won. A remainer having the nerve to question that.

[tebee]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

The streets of London are pretty sticky with it most mornings, or even early evenings. They are over 100 so far this year.

And Chicago has 150 per month in a city a sixth the size of London - by most standards London's a pretty safe place to live  

[Laughing Gravy]

38 minutes ago, tebee said:

And Chicago has 150 per month in a city a sixth the size of London - by most standards London's a pretty safe place to live  

Is that a remainers statistics. London's 100 have been Knife crimes and Chicago is a place where guns are legal. To try and suggest London is a safe place is ludicrous.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Is that a remainers statistics. London's 100 have been Knife crimes and Chicago is a place where guns are legal. To try and suggest London is a safe place is ludicrous.

there are 14 million people in London excluding tourists - 100 knife crimes means you have a 0.0007 % chance of being involved in one if you live in London. That's fairly good odds to me, I'd take my chances there 

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, CaptainNemo said:

That is as bogus an argument as the Chinese case for annexing Tibet... that you do a thing, then drag it out so long to try and stop any change, and say, oh well it's different now. Your whole position rests on your unsupported opinion that you doubt the referendum reflected the opinion of people.

 

Frankly, I doubt that the result of the 1997 election reflected the opinion of people, but we can't re-run that. Just because Remain failed, does not mean that the referendum failed. People don't want the EU, and that is not news to people outside the strongholds of Remain, it's very old news and to quote a favourite of Remainers, an "inconvenient truth".

 

We don't want it, we never did, Europhiles railroaded Europe onto the people and acted like they were ill or stupid or less informed for simply disagreeing with them - it's so unbelievably arrogant and conceited a position, and it's part of why the Remain campaign was poor, and why the majority of voters don't like Remain. Remain is a weak idea, because is a weak idea, you can't force it on people and make them think it's good when it's weak.

I know it suited a lot of middle class people, who had nice jobs and holidays/second homes out of it, and I know that the Labour party is a middle class party now, but most of the voters haven't shifted much, they're still working class and see the world and Britain's place in it differently from Europhiles/Remainiacs.

 

The debate about EU membership itself goes back decades, and the notion that people don't know anything is specious. Leavers have been campaigning to leave since 1992. Remainers were certainly campaigning to remain long before the campaign started. The truth is, and LSE research supports this, that Remain was always behind Leave, because Remain as a concept is unambitious, fearful, and protectionist, and those are European Union values, not British values, Britain is a uniquely global country and fencing it into some corner of the world for geographic convenience doesn't work, for Europe or Britain.

 

The only reasonable course of action is for a second referendum to be one after the UK has left, to vote on whether to rejoin.

It's not reasonable to undermine the concept of national votes by ignoring results, it sets a dangerous precedent that can be abused by autocrats, as is the case when Parliament refuses to go to the people to obtain a mandate... if parliament opposes the result of the referendum, it has no mandate, no legitimacy, and must be dissolved immediately. The Queen should dissolve parliament, regardless of what the Labour Party and the Remainer faction wants.

 

Well yes there is, the simple fact that all referenda on this subject have been non-binding, and also that you can't have one vote on joining and two (or more) votes on leaving. The Miller case has asserted Parliamentry sovereignty, and Parliament has lost legitimacy because it is at odds with the expressed will of the people, and refuses to hold a General Election. It's an untenable situation.

There is no democratic mandate to try and create a binding referendum, if the Remain Faction wants to form an unholy alliance and campaign for that in a General Election, then that is reasonable.

To try and create a binding referendum with no electoral mandate to do so, goes against the Miller ruling about parliamentary sovereignty, and it would be challenged in the courts. Wrecking the constitution is not the way to stop Brexit: it will backfire badly.

The grounds used to challenge prorogation in the Scottish court cite an ancient law that talked about the will of the people and stymying of parliament - well they can't have it both ways - Labour must vote for a General Election.

 

...and you may doubt it, but that has absolutely no bearing on anything, especially because you don't really appear to take any interest in what the "general leave voting population" thinks.

Untrue. There has been a consistent amount of support for leaving the EU ever since we joined it.

Many people have been politically active in 1992 when we left the EEC and joined the EU without any public consultation (Farage being one of the more recently notable ones).

That's when the Campaign for an Independent Britain started, a forerunner of the Referendum and UKIP.

 

No I think remaining in the EU has serious economic risks, and we should have left 3 years ago, 27 years ago, or never joined. Germany is in recession, and the Italian banks are in a precarious state. There is persistent lower-than-inflation growth, persistent high-unemployment, unwanted mass-immgration, and rising cost of living across the EU. The UK needs to escape this sinking ship as a matter of urgency, and start reforming and trading with the parts of the world that are actually growing economically.

 

UK democracy has been attacked and sabotaged by every part of the Remain-infested establishment, from the BBC, to the Speaker of the House, the courts, the Civil Service, and a Parliament that doesn't represent the people and refuses to hold a General Election.

Today we had the "Libidinous Demagogues" on today saying that they would simply and glibly dismiss Brexit out of hand, without even a second refendum... this is a party that calls itself "liberal" and "democratic", and wants to behave like an autocratic party, it's a party that promised not to raise tuition fees, and did the exact opposite, a party that appears to have no moral principles that will say anything for a vote, and accept anyone as a member. The contempt for democracy is outrageous; and the cries of "dictator" farcical.

Ireland, if it has any sense, will leave the EU too, as it does more trade with the UK than with the rest.

 

 

Fair enough, I was away for ages for that one, it totally passed me by like ships in the night... it was a LibDem referendum wasn't it... very selective about referenda, aren't they?

 

Nevertheless, all that effort in the courts to ensure that parliament has the final say does change things, as described above. You either go to the courts or have a general election, and I don't think the Judiciary wants to be confused with the Executive or the Legislature.

 

Still deafening silence on this one:

"If we have a second referendum to confirm our confirming that we want to leave, then it's unbalanced.

How do you reconcile that?"

 

No, the GE attempts failed because the Labour Party abstained en masse, and they did that because they don't have a coherent policy on Brexit, and they know they will lose, and the Rotten Remain parliament will be purged and filled with MPs that the electorate want. If MPS won't call an election, if they won't respect the result, then they have lost their mandate, their legitimacy, and it's they who can't be trusted.

So you're convinced it does reflect the opinion of the people and did so also in 2016.

 

I think you're totally incorrect, and unfortunately you're not willing to put your opinion to the test. Also unfortunately you attack me, my opinions, and others who disagree with you. As I said, I am not blaming so won't continue this.

[SheungWan]

No, the GE attempts failed because the Labour Party abstained en masse, and they did that because they don't have a coherent policy on Brexit, and they know they will lose, and the Rotten Remain parliament will be purged and filled with MPs that the electorate want. If MPS won't call an election, if they won't respect the result, then they have lost their mandate, their legitimacy, and it's they who can't be trusted.

A load of old junk which simply boiled down just doesn't want Parliament now to block Boris. Well that's up to Parliament. Never mind.

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[SheungWan]

Is that a remainers statistics. London's 100 have been Knife crimes and Chicago is a place where guns are legal. To try and suggest London is a safe place is ludicrous.

London is rather bigger than some places which a few Brexiteers seem accustomed to.

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[SheungWan]

It means a democratic binary referendum which happened in 2016 and leave won. A remainer having the nerve to question that.

It wasn't binary on no-deal Brexit.

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[SheungWan]

The streets of London are pretty sticky with it most mornings, or even early evenings. They are over 100 so far this year.

London always has been a little intimidating for the small town provincial crowd of Brexiteers..

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[SheungWan]

Love it. Boris gave them a body swerve. Not going to get caught in from of Remainer rent-a-mob. He’s a big lad for throwing a dummy, but he’s obviously a step ahead of this amateur.

Did a runner. Very smart.

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[SheungWan]

The left had started the vilification of old Knocker early on. Johnny Speight was already ‘on point’ with their ‘Till Death Us Do Part” brainwashing message from the mid-sixties.
Who’d have guessed that it would develop into the full weight PC culture.

Let nobody accuse the Hard Brexiteer crowd of being grumpy old geezers living on a diet of dated TV shows.

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[SheungWan]

Not a problem. 
 
My problem is that I have fat typing fingers and I can easily hit 2 keys at once. Fortunately I have a spell checker running that hi lights most of the errors. At 75 I don't think I will improve any more.

Try a tablet with a pen.

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[wilcopops]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It means a democratic binary referendum which happened in 2016 and leave won. A remainer having the nerve to question that.

QED

 

You'll find a democracy is much more than that.

[kingdong]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

Have we had "rivers of blood" in the UK?

Depends, if you have a 9-5 well paid job and go home to your des-res every night you,d say no,if you,'re a young coloured kid living in London (possibly in the wrong postcode)he,d probably say yes.

[kingdong]

35 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Did a runner. Very smart.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Like remain did when offered a general election?

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

there are 14 million people in London excluding tourists - 100 knife crimes means you have a 0.0007 % chance of being involved in one if you live in London. That's fairly good odds to me, I'd take my chances there 

100 murders not knife crime